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Blizzard on 1v1 Balancing and the new patch - Page 80

Forum Index > Community News and Headlines
1732 CommentsPost a Reply
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NovaTheFeared
Profile Blog Joined October 2004
United States7222 Posts
October 08 2010 07:39 GMT
#1581
People think that because terrans go depot before rax the vast majority of the time making it a requirement doesn't amount to a big change. But it does. The threat matters more than the execution. It allows the opponent to play much greedier if rax first isn't an option, despite it being used infrequently. Think about in BW if rax required depot. The only thing stopping protoss from going 12 nex every single game was the threat of the proxy rax first. Because those kinds of greedy openings had an auto-lose % to rax first, they were done far less often than they would have been if terrans were unable to do that build.
日本語が分かりますか
EleanorRIgby
Profile Joined March 2008
Canada3923 Posts
October 08 2010 07:41 GMT
#1582
With the barracks nerf and roach buff zergs will be able to 15 hatch quick lair and drone pump off like 4 roaches every single fucking game. Has blizzard not even took a look at how the meta game has changed? Reapers aren't even that big of deal anymore and nerfing them again will make them outright useless except in very niche situations(if your mid game reapers get caught/scouted you will lose).

Making the barracks require a supply depot is basically shutting down so many options and making the game more dumbed down, there will be almost no aggressive builds the terran will be able to do against the zerg.
savior did nothing wrong
Emon_
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
3925 Posts
October 08 2010 07:47 GMT
#1583
The supply/rax deal is very confusing. Similar to the Pylon/Gateway deal we get with protoss. I guess it's welcome since marine/Marauder/Reaper is very strong
"I know that human beings and fish can coexist peacefully" -GWB ||
Logros
Profile Joined September 2010
Netherlands9913 Posts
October 08 2010 07:56 GMT
#1584
In the GSL I saw tons of PvT's where the terran pressured early with 4-5 units while the protoss had only ~2. This required pulling probes to survive and often a bunch died, giving such a huge lead to the terran right from the start that the game was usually decided right then. Having 1 sentry out isn't going to stop this because you can only FF once, which only delays the inevitable.
The PvT matchup was something like 17-34 in favor of terran in the GSL...
EleanorRIgby
Profile Joined March 2008
Canada3923 Posts
October 08 2010 08:10 GMT
#1585
On October 08 2010 16:56 Logros wrote:
In the GSL I saw tons of PvT's where the terran pressured early with 4-5 units while the protoss had only ~2. This required pulling probes to survive and often a bunch died, giving such a huge lead to the terran right from the start that the game was usually decided right then. Having 1 sentry out isn't going to stop this because you can only FF once, which only delays the inevitable.
The PvT matchup was something like 17-34 in favor of terran in the GSL...


yea so much bad protoss users won the prelims though
savior did nothing wrong
Phanekim
Profile Joined April 2003
United States777 Posts
October 08 2010 08:14 GMT
#1586
im a zerg player and i think this is too much.
i like cheese
TheBB
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Switzerland5133 Posts
October 08 2010 08:25 GMT
#1587
On October 08 2010 16:39 NovaTheFeared wrote:
The threat matters more than the execution.

"The threat is stronger than its execution." -- Aron Nimzowitsch, 1933

I don't know if you realized this or if it's just a neat coincidence. A little fun fact for you all.
http://aligulac.com || Barcraft Switzerland! || Zerg best race. || Stats-poster extraordinaire.
Logros
Profile Joined September 2010
Netherlands9913 Posts
October 08 2010 08:25 GMT
#1588
On October 08 2010 17:10 EleanorRIgby wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 08 2010 16:56 Logros wrote:
In the GSL I saw tons of PvT's where the terran pressured early with 4-5 units while the protoss had only ~2. This required pulling probes to survive and often a bunch died, giving such a huge lead to the terran right from the start that the game was usually decided right then. Having 1 sentry out isn't going to stop this because you can only FF once, which only delays the inevitable.
The PvT matchup was something like 17-34 in favor of terran in the GSL...


yea so much bad protoss users won the prelims though


I find it hard to believe that this is only due to the protoss players being so bad. Terran had a lot more ways to exploit and force errors in the early game due to the pressure they can put on.
TyrantPotato
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Australia1541 Posts
October 08 2010 08:29 GMT
#1589
On October 08 2010 17:14 Phanekim wrote:
im a zerg player and i think this is too much.


its better to test the boundries to work out what works and what doesn't rather then to make tiny crawls that will inevitablely fall behind the style of play that is in use.

if sc2 gets turned on its head in a good way, the leap of faith was worth it.

if sc2 gets turned on its head in a wrong way. the leap was still worth it because we now know what works and what doesn't.

but its funny to see all the comments of T players going to quit sc2 all together

my opinion is that the rax supply requirment is a move in the wrong direction for sc2's future, but wont break anything.

but the reaper speed factory requirement is stupid. blizzard needs to learn NOT to balance the game around 2v2. or simply make the two types use different mechanics.

*mmmmmmm terran tears*
Forever ZeNEX.
FecalDecal
Profile Joined February 2010
China49 Posts
October 08 2010 08:39 GMT
#1590
On October 08 2010 16:39 NovaTheFeared wrote:
People think that because terrans go depot before rax the vast majority of the time making it a requirement doesn't amount to a big change. But it does. The threat matters more than the execution. It allows the opponent to play much greedier if rax first isn't an option, despite it being used infrequently. Think about in BW if rax required depot. The only thing stopping protoss from going 12 nex every single game was the threat of the proxy rax first. Because those kinds of greedy openings had an auto-lose % to rax first, they were done far less often than they would have been if terrans were unable to do that build.


I totally agree with this. So much of Starcraft is about scouting and extrapolating, then preparing a counter/defense. This is even more true SC2.
Care less about making more mistakes.
xs101
Profile Joined June 2010
Romania86 Posts
October 08 2010 09:19 GMT
#1591
I think these overall changes are also meant to make the game more macro oriented, to make 14 hatch always safe to do, and also encourage FE for toss and terrans.

The roach change might be a bit too much, but we'll see.... as for the reaper nerf, I am so glad it's here because 5RR is still a bit too strong and forces zerg down a path too early on.
Angra
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States2652 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-08 09:34:42
October 08 2010 09:25 GMT
#1592
The Barracks are going to require a Supply Depot, which will impact a lot of early terran reaper pushes.




uhhhhhhh..


might as well be:

"We decided to automate the openings for all Terrans to 10supply/12rax/13 gas, all Protoss to 9pylon/12gate/13gas, and all Zergs to 9ovie/14pool/18hatch in order to prevent early rushes from being too powerful. You will regain unit control once these structures are automatically built in this order."




Talk about killing a game's diversity just because people complain too much...
crw
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada70 Posts
October 08 2010 09:36 GMT
#1593
Protoss are played 38.5% of the time.

Terran are played 38.0% of the time.

Zerg are played 23.5% of the time.

apparently noone plays random in starcraft.

if we assume 15% of people play random and even distribution through the races, that means 18.5% zerg, 33% terran, 33.5% protoss.

almost double for the regular races and half for the afterthought race
Zerg need heavy buffs from Tier 1 to tier 3, against Terran and Protoss. blizzard needs to get on the ball or lose SC2 as an eSports venue.
StorrZerg
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States13919 Posts
October 08 2010 10:02 GMT
#1594
wow, i cannot believe some of these changes or suggestions.
supply before rax, is just stupid..
roach's is a nice change, but, whats the hydra purpose now besides anti air now
I don't know what can be done about the reaper, but they are taking drastic nerfs left and right, and i really don't know what their purpose is now. I really don't think they need to be in sc2 now after these nerfs.
Hwaseung Oz fan for life. Swing out, always swing out.
EleanorRIgby
Profile Joined March 2008
Canada3923 Posts
October 08 2010 10:12 GMT
#1595
honestly why couldn't they just leave it at the zerg buffs and leave the other races the fuck alone, i bet there looking in to protoss nerfs now because bronze protosses are too strong. Just changing zerg and only zerg would be so much closer to balancing the game if they just implemented the zerg changes and nothing else

i cant believe they want to fuck up 1v1 because of team games..
savior did nothing wrong
crw
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada70 Posts
October 08 2010 10:14 GMT
#1596
On October 08 2010 19:12 EleanorRIgby wrote:
honestly why couldn't they just leave it at the zerg buffs and leave the other races the fuck alone, i bet there looking in to protoss nerfs now because bronze protosses are too strong. Just changing zerg and only zerg would be so much closer to balancing the game if they just implemented the zerg changes and nothing else

i cant believe they want to fuck up 1v1 because of team games..


i dont think anyone QQing about imbalance wants protoss nerfed, i think most people just want zerg to be buffed and be done with it.

but blizzard has an abysmal balancing strategy obvious to anyone who has followed the balance changes in the past year of SC2.

It's just expectable that they will fuck up a different race because they felt their butts burning from the imbalance against the zerg
Zerg need heavy buffs from Tier 1 to tier 3, against Terran and Protoss. blizzard needs to get on the ball or lose SC2 as an eSports venue.
inTheMood
Profile Joined April 2010
Norway128 Posts
October 08 2010 10:15 GMT
#1597
z here. I like roach range, but the barrack nerf?! Seriously?!

Terran is not that OP anymore, in fact, it's pretty balanced thanks to prev reaper nerf.
Rax that requires depot first is just stupid. Like some other guys said; it removes the scary feeling early game against T and 15 hatch - eco will be the standard for z.

I can agree on factory before reaper speed, but not the depot...

But thanks for the Z buff, of course
DIMAGA | Ret | mOOnGLaDe | Hero | White-Ra | DRG | Dragon | Snute
FreedonNadd
Profile Joined August 2010
Austria573 Posts
October 08 2010 10:23 GMT
#1598
Finally Blizzard read my post:

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=155249#13

^^
I think I had a nerdgasm. (Like much more the Evilgasm from OOTS :-)
Some people wear Superman pajamas, but Superman has Day[9] pajamas.
Pixel.
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands287 Posts
October 08 2010 10:23 GMT
#1599
The 4 range attack of the Roach will kill ZvZ :S roach allready kills hydra's. It will be roach fast all over agian!
Member of KnightS* www.Ks-gaming.com Pixel.323
inTheMood
Profile Joined April 2010
Norway128 Posts
October 08 2010 10:27 GMT
#1600
On October 08 2010 19:23 FreedonNadd wrote:
Finally Blizzard read my post:

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=155249#13

^^
I think I had a nerdgasm. (Like much more the Evilgasm from OOTS :-)



Hehe, well I agree that nitro nerf (req factory) is a good thing, but do you agree on the fact that barracks might need depot to be built? To me, that makes zero sence
DIMAGA | Ret | mOOnGLaDe | Hero | White-Ra | DRG | Dragon | Snute
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