EPTThe thing about depot before rax is that, if this change gets implemented, as a zerg or toss player, you have no reason to fear anything early from a Terran player, You can always choose the safe, eco play and basically won't need to scout very early. It ruins the early game, imho
Blizzard on 1v1 Balancing and the new patch - Page 82
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inTheMood
Norway128 Posts
The thing about depot before rax is that, if this change gets implemented, as a zerg or toss player, you have no reason to fear anything early from a Terran player, You can always choose the safe, eco play and basically won't need to scout very early. It ruins the early game, imho | ||
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MrBarryObama
Korea (South)141 Posts
On October 08 2010 22:22 inTheMood wrote: @RedHelix The thing about depot before rax is that, if this change gets implemented, as a zerg or toss player, you have no reason to fear anything early from a Terran player, You can always choose the safe, eco play and basically won't need to scout very early. It ruins the early game, imho Yes, these terran changes are bad for 1v1. I think they were supposed to address 2v2 two T teams, but simply changing the maps would have solved this... Like shared mains, but separate naturals. Shared mains would really make 2v2 less of a bum rush | ||
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Perscienter
957 Posts
On October 08 2010 21:52 arb wrote: Basically it'll make reaper rushing impossible,or atleast delay it, and people who play normal wont even notice What is normal? Sucking at being able to play a large array of openings? On October 08 2010 22:19 RedHelix wrote: i'm really digging the roach range, nnot only does it help to fend off reapers like a stalker would, but it would mean that roaches can actually counter another unit that they were supposed to counter in the first place, hellions... Roaches are supposed to counter hellions? Who says that? Their current role is to tank a lot and slow down the enemie's hellion harassment, but they need to be microed in order to succeed in that. I personally also like roaches to be kiteable by stalkers, as long as the Zerg overcommitted to his eco. On October 08 2010 22:19 RedHelix wrote: I'm wondering if someone could explain the depot before barracks complaining to me though, i used to play terran before zerg and depot before barracks never really affected my wall-in's and the only time i would go barracks before depot was to perform some kind of proxy cheese or to fend off some lulzy tactics in 2v2's It was already explained a lot. It subtracts some proxy or rush openings and the rax before depot fe from the game. This will lead to more sim city style openings. | ||
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Dyllyn
Singapore670 Posts
On October 08 2010 22:22 inTheMood wrote: @RedHelix The thing about depot before rax is that, if this change gets implemented, as a zerg or toss player, you have no reason to fear anything early from a Terran player, You can always choose the safe, eco play and basically won't need to scout very early. It ruins the early game, imho This. Although rax before depot is very rare (outside of 10 rax reapers which in itself is now rare post 1.1.1) the option to do so is extremely important in the general scheme of things.... Someone needs to sit Blizzard down and explain to them that this 2v2 nerf is unnecessary because their 2v2 maps are the problem... | ||
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Angry_Fetus
Canada444 Posts
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Blacklizard
United States1194 Posts
On October 08 2010 16:39 NovaTheFeared wrote: People think that because terrans go depot before rax the vast majority of the time making it a requirement doesn't amount to a big change. But it does. The threat matters more than the execution. It allows the opponent to play much greedier if rax first isn't an option, despite it being used infrequently. Think about in BW if rax required depot. The only thing stopping protoss from going 12 nex every single game was the threat of the proxy rax first. Because those kinds of greedy openings had an auto-lose % to rax first, they were done far less often than they would have been if terrans were unable to do that build. Hey Nova. I take your point, but in SC1 that probably depended on dragoons being really good early game against Terran. In SC2, I think marauders pretty much fill that gap so that Protoss early expands have a good bit of risk no matter what. 1 or 2 reapers in the back are also a nice threat if you push the front against a P early expander. Personally I think the depot first requirement is very smart by Blizzard even if it seems weird. I've seen a lot of Terrans in upper diamond talk about barracks on 9 or 10 being their standard b/c it's 100% safe against all cheese and doesn't affect economy much. Tried it and it seems solid. No other race has that without seemingly severe econ hits, and it just seems to be a really good option. Also, Terran has the safest cheese openings, IMO. You can recover and defend if your cheese fails fairly well... floating barracks, salvaging bunkers, and repair. I often bunker in the enemy's base as Terran to force things then cancel or salvage. For protoss to have a threat like that you have to commit to forge first or proxy in their base. Zerg's only option is super early pool... definitely a big commitment. All these things makes me think depot first could be a very fair change to reduce options a tad for T. | ||
DoubleReed
United States4130 Posts
On October 08 2010 21:52 noD wrote: about 1600 posts here, 800 in eu battle.net, 3.500 in battle.net us, Do they ever read feedback from users? I never saw a patch update being so discussed and hated ... What? Do you not remember the 2-supply roach nerf? And there were several others, honestly That was also universally hated. By most people it still is. I'm really not understanding the terran's QQ. You still have plenty of cheese openings available to you. Saying this eliminates cheese options is just silly. Hell, you can still proxy rax. It just comes a little later. This is completely ridiculous. Personally I think the depot first requirement is very smart by Blizzard even if it seems weird. I've seen a lot of Terrans in upper diamond talk about barracks on 9 or 10 being their standard b/c it's 100% safe against all cheese and doesn't affect economy much. Tried it and it seems solid. No other race has that without seemingly severe econ hits, and it just seems to be a really good option. 100% agree. Cheese should involve commitment. | ||
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bobbingmatt
Australia224 Posts
I agree, this is kinda like taking away flying buildings. But i'm happy about reaper speed! | ||
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hangarninetysix
263 Posts
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Dagobert
Netherlands1858 Posts
On October 08 2010 23:30 hangarninetysix wrote: They should have just made creep affect drone speed...:D Hehehehehe. | ||
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sanguin
Hungary16 Posts
falling from one sie of the horse to another -gg | ||
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ThE_ShiZ
United States143 Posts
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HwangjaeTerran
Finland5967 Posts
But that supply before barracks thing....could it result as weakness against cheese ? | ||
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avilo
United States4100 Posts
On October 08 2010 14:44 Losticus wrote: Predictably, the QQers are giddy, proving they were never concerned with balance so much as nerfing Terran to smithereens for reparations over their perceived victimhood. They cried, and cried, oh and cried some more -- and Blizzard is forced to submit to appease the Zerglings. Nevermind the hilarious statement before the patch notes: "While the evidence doesn't really support this, we feel, and the community feels, that Zerg is UP." For game designers to ignore the facts and go on "feelings" alone is absurd -- but even worse was what was coming. This over-nerf and over-buff will destroy the game's balance. Terran will be unplayable. Yeah, I know "revenge" will be sweet for a while -- but balance changes this drastic is going to have catastrophic implications. Meanwhile, Protoss continues to quietly rape humans with hardly a notice... funnily enough that is sort of true. Go look at the recent interviews from top korean Z's. They all are like, "wow this is great! but brood lords still need buff!" WTF? it really goes to show you that you can even be GSL champ and still not be a good game designer/balancer. | ||
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Zeroes
United States1102 Posts
On October 09 2010 01:40 avilo wrote: funnily enough that is sort of true. Go look at the recent interviews from top korean Z's. They all are like, "wow this is great! but brood lords still need buff!" WTF? it really goes to show you that you can even be GSL champ and still not be a good game designer/balancer. maybe he sees something we don't broodlords die too easy anyway | ||
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tibberous
United States45 Posts
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gr8ape
Canada302 Posts
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Archerofaiur
United States4101 Posts
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Trentelshark
Canada385 Posts
The roach range upgrade is something I will want to see played out since it should make them more effective against Reaper harassment which is a bonus for Zerg players, and with the upgrade requiring a Factory the additional build time of the Factory may be a bit much but something had to be done imo. That said, they may have over hit the Reaper now between 1.1 and 1.2 which may render them completely useless but time will tell. I'll wait to see the final changelist for 1.2 before passing too much judgement on Blizzard. | ||
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Herculix
United States946 Posts
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