EPTRather than that the fungal growth and roach range are excellent changes.
Blizzard on 1v1 Balancing and the new patch - Page 78
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sureshot_
United States257 Posts
Rather than that the fungal growth and roach range are excellent changes. | ||
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gotterdammerung
Austria17 Posts
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Ganso
Mexico6 Posts
Depot before Rax does so much to pigeon hole Terran into specific builds that Blizzard may as well start Terran with 12 SCVs, 1 Barracks, 1 Depot and a countdown timer that says "3 Minutes until the Terran player is activated" | ||
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Weird
United States832 Posts
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threehundred
Canada911 Posts
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Dagobert
Netherlands1858 Posts
It'll alleviate the proxy problem, too. What's the big deal? On a sidenote, to all the people whining REAPERZ GONNA BE USELESS NOW... I've seen a high level T (was it SeleCT or Fenix? was streamed and commented on by Trump) use reapers vs P in MIDgame. Very potent harass, I must say. He controlled them well and kept his opponent on his toes. Neither does this require a starport, nor do you risk losing your medivacs, which you would if you were doing a hellion drop. On top of this, reapers are more mobile. If it's not op it's not useful? Oh please. | ||
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Sten
United States7 Posts
On October 08 2010 08:48 jiz wrote: To everyone saying that the match up win percentage statistics are useless because of the ranking system being optimised to try and give every player a 50% win ratio... Here is a little lesson in math and not being a dumbass for once: Lets say every protoss player has 50%win vs toss, 100% win vs zerg, 0%w vs terran; every terran player has 50%w vs terran, 100%w vs toss, 0%w vs zerg; and every zerg has 50%w vs zerg, 100%w vs terran, 0%w vs toss This is also known as rock paper scissors. Every non mirror match up is not at all balanced and yet every player has a 50% win ratio. I am losing faith in humanity, and it's making me depressed. Yeah, this is definitely a very straightforward use of the data from what I can tell. Specifically, spotting any RPS aspect to the races. What I'm less sure of is how useful it is in determining the strength of one race OVERALL vs. another race. (Edit: See below, I actually was wrong here I think) That seems extremely hard to measure, but I'm very open to hearing how one could do it. To be honest, the more I think about it, the more I think that it's sort of strange to assume one can measure a player's "skill" in any absolute sense. I could buy you could come up with a pretty meaningful skill ranking within a given race (so "skill with zerg," "skill with protoss," etc.) but how do you get a number of someone's overall skill without taking race into account? Without that you can't compare, say, TvP with player skill factored out, and I'm not really sure it can be done with any reasonable degree of accuracy. Could be wrong though. Edit: I think I was wrong about it measuring RPS. I actually think all it measures is relative strength vs. one race or the other... but even if, say, ZvP had a 40% win ratio and ZvT had a 60% win ratio, I think it could still be the case that Z is UP against BOTH races. It just would show that it's at a greater disadvantage vs. P. Again, this is assuming that it isn't really possible to "account for skill" in any real sense across races via the data. Which may or may not be accurate, I dunno... I haven't heard a convincing way of doing it yet though, at least not a fully fleshed-out one. | ||
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gotterdammerung
Austria17 Posts
On October 08 2010 14:06 Dagobert wrote: I don't understand all the QQ, *cough* commotion about the supply first. Nobody needs an 8/9rax to defend against a 6pool (how would you know before scouting anyway - and you aren't scouting before 10 anyway, now are you?). Well except maybe the bronze players who still click on the buildings/units to build them. It'll alleviate the proxy problem, too. What's the big deal? On a sidenote, to all the people whining REAPERZ GONNA BE USELESS NOW... I've seen a high level T (was it SeleCT or Fenix? was streamed and commented on by Trump) use reapers vs P in MIDgame. Very potent harass, I must say. He controlled them well and kept his opponent on his toes. Neither does this require a starport, nor do you risk losing your medivacs, which you would if you were doing a hellion drop. On top of this, reapers are more mobile. If it's not op it's not useful? Oh please. obviously not a terran player, 6pool will rock you if you have to go depot first. 6 pool is already a common tactic from Z and its strong | ||
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Pandain
United States12981 Posts
Blink stalkers against Zerg: Fun to watch, and could be defendable with lings muta. Was one of those cool micro tricks like muta micro except a little less. Now, just get an infestor and no more micro. It's like forcefield(aka: anti micro, stops micro) except it doesn't require any skill to pull off. Supply depot before rax: wtf? this is so dumb. I feel like just 6 pooling, and sending some drones to stop that scv from building a supply depot so they can't get troops. And what happened to terran cheese? I don't see how this helps at all! Roach Range increase: Eh.... reaper harrass was begining to be able to be dealt with and still required decent micro. With this and the factory requirement for speed, reaper play is dead. I'm zerg and I don't like this at all :/ . Although I do support the raising of health for zerg buildings. | ||
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Rorra
Australia1066 Posts
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theMarkovian
Netherlands183 Posts
On October 08 2010 14:14 gotterdammerung wrote:obviously not a terran player, 6pool will rock you if you have to go depot first. 6 pool is already a common tactic from Z and its strong Really? Then why does Zerg, while every top Terran goes Depot first, not just 6 Pool every game? They would be guaranteed free wins every time! Because it doesn't work. Even without a walloff, you can kill a 6 Pool with workers until you get a Marine out. There even is a Challenge mission that specifically deals with killing 6 Pool with only workers. You can even fully wall off with Rax/2Depots by cutting SCVs if you scout the early pool on the larger maps. | ||
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MrBitter
United States2939 Posts
On October 08 2010 14:14 gotterdammerung wrote: obviously not a terran player, 6pool will rock you if you have to go depot first. 6 pool is already a common tactic from Z and its strong No it won't. 6 Pool vs T is a fucking one way ticket to the losers bracket. Of all the races in the game, T has the easiest time dealing with it. Why? Finish the wall, pull 2 scvs to repair, and prepare for massive lulz as soon as your first marine pops. | ||
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raz0rtail
Australia42 Posts
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Losticus
United States62 Posts
For game designers to ignore the facts and go on "feelings" alone is absurd -- but even worse was what was coming. This over-nerf and over-buff will destroy the game's balance. Terran will be unplayable. Yeah, I know "revenge" will be sweet for a while -- but balance changes this drastic is going to have catastrophic implications. Meanwhile, Protoss continues to quietly rape humans with hardly a notice... | ||
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Rorra
Australia1066 Posts
On October 08 2010 14:40 raz0rtail wrote: The barrack nerf is just stupid, it is alright if techlab needs supply depot instead. I don't see why so many people are openly hostile to the change. I'm interested to see how this works out, after all Protoss does have to build a pylon before gateway (then again different races, different mechanics so idk if that's relevant). btw I do not think it is a good change, I just wonder if it would make as much of a difference as people think it would; that is aside from the obvious affect it has on certain Terran rush builds. | ||
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MuffinDude
United States3837 Posts
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nailertn
48 Posts
Their idea of balancing team games is one of the most backwards things I must have ever heard. As long as 2 > 1 and it takes an eternity to reach your allies tuning individual races means nothing. Instead of making proper maps they go for a change that won't achieve its intended goal but mess up 1v1 in major ways. Anyway tested range 4 roaches in a custom map and they are impossible to kite with hellions due to their attack delay even under ideal circumnstances (roach approaching hellion, turret facing it, slower game speed to exclude possible reaction time issues). Regarding protoss win rates in lower leagues... Even though Blizzard is now Activision Blizzard, and I understand they are required to make the game appealing to a wide player base, they really must stop following the WoW model. Instead of dumbing down the game educate the customers so there is no need to actually make a choice between casual and experienced players. Challenge missions are a step in the right direction. | ||
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Subversion
South Africa3627 Posts
Whats the big deal with depot before rax? How often were you going rax before anyway? Seems like you'd only do that for supreme proxy cheese. I'm pretty sure its just to stop these 7/8rax proxy reaper builds. | ||
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Pyrrhuloxia
United States6700 Posts
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SlayerOfYou
58 Posts
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