On October 08 2010 11:20 fusihunter wrote: Don't know why you're all complaining about Reaper speed coming from factory..... We need a lair for roach speed, and with jet packs you're still faster..
Because there is absolutely no reason to ever make speed reapers when you have a factory and could just make medivacs instead, and fill them up with units that can actually fight.
Its like if youd put lings and ultras on almost the same tier, and have the ultras cost almost the same as the lings.
Reapers will NEVER be used now - before speed upgrade they are completely useless and by the time you have a factory, zerg will have no problem defending the reapers, I am pretty sure, as you were completely unable to slow him down in the early game (no speed reapers remember?).
Oh in addition, reapers take FOREVER to build...
as much as i love all the terran tears *mmmmmmm*
i have to agree that the reaper changes were not needed.
just by them adding roach range the reaper threat is no longer as it was. there is absolute no reason to have the speed delayed till factory.
honestly even blizzard cant be that ignorant to realise that.
however a theory is that they might be trying to nerf them for 2v2 balance. which is the WORST reasoning ever.
mind you it would fall into blizzard attempting to balance sc2 Wow style with the whole Fotm kinda way of patching.
i mean look at the huge changes just after cool won the gsl and thousands of players have flocked to zerg because its the "it" race.
Looks like I will have to find a new way to play terran in team games. I always went 10rax into 5rax reaper with speed. I do think this is a great change for team games though. Mass reapers was pretty ridiculous. edit: this will also help big time with PP teams against ZT. Also, looks like I will never have to worry about reapers or super fast marauders in pvt which means 13gate is super safe all the time.
edit2: They really need to decrease the reaper build time if they are going to make those other changes otherwise reapers will rarely be used imo. The roach range upgrade will also kill pvz fe on lost temple or any other map. Thats sad.
Because there is absolutely no reason to ever make speed reapers when you have a factory and could just make medivacs instead, and fill them up with units that can actually fight.
I thought medivacs come from the starport?
IMO, reapers will still have their place in early game, but it will mostly be used to snipe workers, damage/kill buildings, shutting down/harrassing fast expanders, and general mobility abuse. Similarly, mutalisks in low numbers are only useful for harassing mineral lines and doing some damage to buildings, but they are also very good at it.
Nevertheless, I think the more and more the game evolves the more and more unclear the reapers place in the game becomes. It is extremely strong vs. light units and structures and has very effective mobility, but due to low hp, ground to ground only attack, complete uselessness vs. armored units, and high gas cost it has almost no later game efficacy.
The infernal preigniter upgrade is avalable at the same time as reaper speed, so roughly by the same time reaper speed is ready you can have blue flame hellions in the opponent's mineral line and if you want to snipe buildings there's marauder drops.
I think that it is ok that reapers arn't going to be very viable anymore besides for scouting, because they're already faster than the other units, they have cliff advantage, and really good vs light units. So i think thats enought for a unit that costs 50/50
I can kinda understand were blizzard is going with the supply depot before rax thing, i mean, the 3 races each has their pros and cons for were or when they can build their buildings.
Wow I mean I hate reaper harass but increasing the roach range!!! That really makes it actually IMPOSSIBLE to do reaper harass anymore lol. It all hinges on the point of spreading creep so your roach MIGHT hit the reaper, but if you increase roach range... i just don't know. There's no reason to put reaper speed until factory There's no reason to put barracks until supply that's such bs
Supply depot before rax seems fake.... That's a little overboard. I'd be happy with the roach range buff and reaper speed requiring a factory (Which itself seems overboard too).
If you are going to increase roach range, then there's no point in moving reaper speed tech to need factory tech. I would not know anything about team games though. All 3 races have counters to speed reapers. Now it just seems like they want to make reapers non-existant, if they weren't already after early game.
Supply before Barracks change is not needed.
Fungal Growth on Blink: I'm genuinely suprised this wasn't there to begin with.
Hopefully this patch doesn't totally nullify the viability of reapers, which would be quite sad.
It is interesting how much Blizzard is willing to change up the game in the name sake of balance, a good sign imo, however not sure if I agree 100% with the changes. ( Although the roach range I do like :D)
I like the Roach range increase but other than that everything else seems like a stupid change. Especially the Barracks requiring a depot now. That's a little ridiculous.
Also had no idea that Stalkers could still blink when fg'ed.
On October 08 2010 07:48 TLOBrian wrote: 1) I'm wondering how this will affect the Roach+hydra combo. (I.e, how will they fare in chokes?) 2) Will roaches be the staple unit in ZvZ again? 3) How does this effective chargelots versus roaches? Will the roaches be able to get an additional shot in before the charge reaches them? 4) Can roaches shoot across gaps that they previously couldn't? (i.e, reach CC's/Nexii/Hatches/units in pathing rang around bases or gas on certain maps from high ground?) 5) What about Roaches sniping collossi? 6) Will broodlord play be even stronger with infestor support in ZvP now that Stalkers can't blink under FG? 7) How are 1a fights affected? does this give roaches an additional shot with or without the speed upgrade?
Very good points you have raised, I think it deserves a thread of its own, because this one has gone the usual i>u route.
Maybe these are all just changes they are thinking they could make, as in not all will get implemented.... I almost feel like any of them by themselves would help the z situation with reapers (especially after their last nerf) but all three is insane.... and I have been bitching to my friends about op terran for months now. I don't want zerg to become FOTM, I want them to just be balanced.
EPT
