On October 08 2010 10:42 FrodaN wrote:
Are Terrans seriously crying out for Blizz to drag down Protoss players with them? We need a pylon to build a Gateway. There's the "balance" for you.

Yeah and we will be teleporting out of the depot too !

ThE_ShiZ

United States143 Posts

October 08 2010 01:50 GMT

#1482

Looks like post patch 1 rax cc will be the norm in tvt lol

It's the same thing that happened in Brood War. It evolved to a point where every game was FE into epic midgame base denials and tech switches. It is a much more balanced and skill oriented game. Of course sc2 is not the same game as sc1, but that doesn't mean we can't take away from it.

The maps even began catering to that type of play because it was more balanced and gave the game more substance. It became a game where you can watch 2 players go at it for 30 minutes and have you say that one player was truly outplayed.

There was still cheese, there always will be. Cheese and all-ins just shouldn't be the main focus of the game. As long as sc2 remains that way it will never receive the prestige sc1 had.

Playguuu

United States926 Posts

October 08 2010 01:59 GMT

#1483

As a zerg player it's nice to see we're getting some attention, but these changes are just strange.

Roach range, nice change. Not sure what they had in mind though, probably 4. Hoping it's at least 5. I'm going to have to blame this change on forcefield (with units bugging out because they can't hit anything) and how easy it was to wall your expos and make 1 cannon to defend as protoss. I don't think you should be able to get away with making like 3 units and getting a fast expansion with little or no risk to yourself unless zerg wants to all in and throw away tons of units.

Hopefully this makes early game zerg a little easier to compete with the other races core units (stalkers/marauders)

Fungal disallowing blink: Sure that's fine, never really thought it was a huge issue, but at lower levels mass stalker can really be annoying.

Barracks require depot: This change is stupid to be honest. Yeah proxy reaper is annoying, especially if you don't scout it but you shouldn't be pigeon holed. I feel a more dynamic early game is better.

Reaper speed requires factory:
This might invalidate reapers entirely. After reapers were nerfed (slightly) last patch, I didn't see too many reaper openings. Most people were just doing factory -> hellion -> starport -> banshee harass.

Maybe it will force terran to commit a little bit to their harasses.

Zerg building health:

This is a nice change, as they say base raids (stim marauder drops) were a bit too damaging given the investment. A group of marines or marauders can destroy tech (and even hatches) ridiculously fast.

What worries me though is they obviously looked at the infestor, and probably won't ever change neural parasite back to be decent. I'm sure they have data on how often it's researched and used, and I'd say rarely outside of people messing around or trying to get that achievement.

ETBPaul

15 Posts

October 08 2010 02:03 GMT

#1484

On October 08 2010 09:57 TaKemE wrote:

Show nested quote +

EDIT -> These numbers take individual player skill into account, which helps to avoid the 50% win/loss percentage effect that the matchmaking system can impart on straight win/loss ratios.

Not picking on the person I quoted or anything. But I really would like to know how they did this. It seems pretty much impossible, especially with the enormous amount of people they were sampling. Anyone have any ideas how they could have done it?

Only thing I could think of is somehow using APM to calculate, not that I like that idea or think it is good, but can't think of any other way they would do it.

threehundred

Canada911 Posts

October 08 2010 02:03 GMT

#1485

really?

i can't 9rax into expo anymore?

really?

i can't get 3 reapers early with speed in TvT anymore?

LegendaryZ

United States1583 Posts

October 08 2010 02:04 GMT

#1486

I definitely like the Zerg buffs, but requiring Terran to build a Supply Depot before Barracks just seems unnecessary, in my opinion.

aztrorisk

United States896 Posts

October 08 2010 02:08 GMT

#1487

I think blizzard can nerf the build time for reapers now with all of these new changes. I think it would keep reapers versatile and make it easier to mass them in the late game.

Dreamer.T

United States3584 Posts

October 08 2010 02:09 GMT

#1488

Depot before barracks is very stupid. It kills so many good strategies, and makes the game seem more linear now. Also, with the requirement of a factory to now upgrade the nitro pack, reapers are pretty much useless in 1v1. They can already be dealt with by good players. Now, there's absolutely no point in getting them.

lololol

5198 Posts

October 08 2010 02:14 GMT

#1489

If they want to remove the earliest cheeses they can increase the starting workers to 9.

noD

2230 Posts

October 08 2010 02:16 GMT

#1490

Btw, is it only here or they removed the link to the balance changes from the in game news ?

whetherby

United States53 Posts

October 08 2010 02:16 GMT

#1491

Maybe they should just have an extra tech tree to reach the reaper. Call it the reaper academy or something.

[Agony]x90

United States853 Posts

October 08 2010 02:19 GMT

#1492

On October 08 2010 11:16 whetherby wrote:
Maybe they should just have an extra tech tree to reach the reaper. Call it the reaper academy or something.

Or just use the ebay for another tech

fusihunter

Australia208 Posts

October 08 2010 02:20 GMT

#1493

Don't know why you're all complaining about Reaper speed coming from factory..... We need a lair for roach speed, and with jet packs you're still faster..

mecra

United States83 Posts

October 08 2010 02:20 GMT

#1494

It's so dumb that all terrans are complaining about building a Supply depot before Barracks and thus their whole world collapsed. It just prevents stupid openings. Reaper openings are still viable.

There are still plenty of good openings.

Roach Speed requires Lair so I don't see a problem.

jiz

Canada15 Posts

October 08 2010 02:24 GMT

#1495

On October 08 2010 11:03 ETBPaul wrote:

Show nested quote +

I don't know but perhaps the player skill is the "points" a player has and they weight each win to count as more if the winning player has less skill and less weight if the winning player has more skill.
i.e. let pp1 be the points for player 1; ppx be the points for a player x, which player 1 has beaten.
Then the weighted amount of wins player 1 has is the sum for all players x (which player 1 has beaten)
of ppx/pp1

This is just an educated guess, Blizzard's system could be more complicated than the example or different entirely.

bjornkavist

Canada1235 Posts

October 08 2010 02:30 GMT

#1496

Barracks requiring Depots, I gotta say thats the dumbest thing ever, why would they do that. Terran cant proxy then lol

teamsolid

Canada3668 Posts

October 08 2010 02:32 GMT

#1497

I kind of also with Blizzard just improved early game zerg scouting and buffed hydras and/or infestors instead of the roach, so we could see more variety in strategies, INSTEAD of just nerfing the variety of strategies from other races.

SheerStress

84 Posts

October 08 2010 02:35 GMT

#1498

These changes for terran are crazy.
-Roach range, I hope this requires at least an upgrade and lair tech, roaches are are pretty dam strong en mass. but all in all an understandable upgrade.

-zerg hp+, great change, assuming only for tech buildings

-supply before rax, such a bad idea, i use 10 rax bunker rushes to punish zerg who open 14 hatch. now they will pretty much be free to go 14 hatch. i guess i will just expo too?

-reaper upgrade at fact, pretty dum but i dont care, just means i wont be using reapers other than as expo deniers in the mid game.

P00RKID

United States424 Posts

October 08 2010 02:36 GMT

#1499

As much as I hate reapers, wouldn't making reaper speed cost more be better than having to get factory? And as far as ZvT goes, extra roach range is all you need to counter the reapers. Now you can just counter reapers with speedlings all the way up untill factory, when you finally have to throw in a few roaches. This patch will effectivly kills reapers, and they only have their role of cliff jumping antics and will become map dependent and very situational.

The supply depot thing is stupid, and combined with reaper nerfs will make early game as zerg a whole lot easier. Speedlings and expos untill they get a factory! (which will be fairly fast as I predict more hellion oppenings in the future)

Hypatio

549 Posts

October 08 2010 02:49 GMT

#1500

On October 08 2010 11:30 bjornkavist wrote:
Barracks requiring Depots, I gotta say thats the dumbest thing ever, why would they do that. Terran cant proxy then lol

Yes, you can.