• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 10:11
CET 16:11
KST 00:11
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
ByuL: The Forgotten Master of ZvT25Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book17Clem wins HomeStory Cup 289HomeStory Cup 28 - Info & Preview13Rongyi Cup S3 - Preview & Info8
Community News
Weekly Cups (Feb 9-15): herO doubles up2ACS replaced by "ASL Season Open" - Starts 21/0241LiuLi Cup: 2025 Grand Finals (Feb 10-16)46Weekly Cups (Feb 2-8): Classic, Solar, MaxPax win2Nexon's StarCraft game could be FPS, led by UMS maker16
StarCraft 2
General
Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book ByuL: The Forgotten Master of ZvT Liquipedia WCS Portal Launched Kaelaris on the futue of SC2 and much more... How do you think the 5.0.15 balance patch (Oct 2025) for StarCraft II has affected the game?
Tourneys
Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament PIG STY FESTIVAL 7.0! (19 Feb - 1 Mar) StarCraft Evolution League (SC Evo Biweekly) How do the "codes" work in GSL? LiuLi Cup: 2025 Grand Finals (Feb 10-16)
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ? [A] Starcraft Sound Mod
External Content
Mutation # 513 Attrition Warfare The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 512 Overclocked Mutation # 511 Temple of Rebirth
Brood War
General
Do you consider PvZ imbalanced? Recent recommended BW games BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BW General Discussion CasterMuse Youtube
Tourneys
Escore Tournament StarCraft Season 1 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues Small VOD Thread 2.0 KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 1
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Zealot bombing is no longer popular? Fighting Spirit mining rates Current Meta
Other Games
General Games
Battle Aces/David Kim RTS Megathread Diablo 2 thread Nintendo Switch Thread ZeroSpace Megathread Path of Exile
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia TL Mafia Community Thread Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread Ask and answer stupid questions here! Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books [Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion TL MMA Pick'em Pool 2013
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
ASL S21 English Commentary…
namkraft
Inside the Communication of …
TrAiDoS
My 2025 Magic: The Gathering…
DARKING
Life Update and thoughts.
FuDDx
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1617 users

Blizzard on 1v1 Balancing and the new patch - Page 74

Forum Index > Community News and Headlines
1732 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 72 73 74 75 76 87 Next
Mikilatov
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States3897 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-08 01:16:56
October 08 2010 01:15 GMT
#1461
Requiring a depot for a rax is quite possibly the dumbest thing I've ever heard in relation to balancing this game. Seriously? What kind of shitty band-aid fix is that?

I'm a Terran player who will actually BENEFIT from this change, considering I don't cheese and I constantly get cheesed in TvT, and I still think that this is absolutely insane to do. What a lame fix.

If 6-pool was overpowered, would they make you require 2 overlords to make a spawning pool, rather than fixing the actual problem? That's god awful design. Completely decimating cheese as an option is absolutely retarded.

Why not make forges require gateways while they're at it. -_- It would be sooo dumb, same as this is.
♥ I used to lasso the shit out of your tournaments =( ♥ | Much is my hero. | zizi yO~ | Be Nice, TL.
TheOGBlitzKrieg
Profile Joined June 2010
United States346 Posts
October 08 2010 01:17 GMT
#1462
buffing roaches at the same time nerfing reapers, say bye bye to seeing epic reaper micro games vs roaches off creep
slained
Profile Blog Joined October 2006
Canada966 Posts
October 08 2010 01:17 GMT
#1463
first the 2 gate build becomes obsolete, now the rax first build. The game is becoming boring when you're forced to stick to one track of builds
Hypatio
Profile Joined September 2010
549 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-08 01:20:17
October 08 2010 01:17 GMT
#1464

No one likes getting cheesed, but removing cheese entirely from the game like they're doing with early rax is stupid IMO. Less variety is bad.

I don't see how requiring depot first will remove cheese. There will be approximately zero change in proxy rax.
Hypatio
Profile Joined September 2010
549 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-08 01:21:03
October 08 2010 01:19 GMT
#1465
On October 08 2010 10:17 slained wrote:
first the 2 gate build becomes obsolete, now the rax first build. The game is becoming boring when you're forced to stick to one track of builds

That is one of the reasons terran is getting the nerf bat. Terran has numerous openers which are highly efficacious. Zerg has something like 2 or 3, max. I think if you play terran you will find that the new nerfs will not eliminate any opener, even reapers, but the openers will change style.
jalstar
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
United States8198 Posts
October 08 2010 01:20 GMT
#1466
Reapers just became useless. They were useless late-game anyway I suppose. Would have been better to make conc shells require factory and leave reaper speed as is, since marauders are good late game, and it still removes an early game option from terran.

Requiring supply for rax is stupid, I agree.
jiz
Profile Joined October 2010
Canada15 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-08 01:22:09
October 08 2010 01:21 GMT
#1467
On October 08 2010 09:52 Drunken.Jedi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 08 2010 09:26 HiHiByeBye wrote:
Why are they buffing zerg when

in Diamond

49.6% win rate for Terran when fighting Zerg.

In Plat
47.3% win rate for Protoss when fighting Zerg.
44.5% win for Terran when fighting Zerg.

In gold

49.5% win rate for Terran when fighting Zerg.



+ the two new maps. Zergs are doing fine?

All those numbers show is that the matchmaking system is working as intended. Even if zerg were at a huge disadvantage, they would still win about half their games because they would simply be matched against protoss and terran player who are so much worse that the skill difference compensates for the imbalance.


see my post at the bottom of page 70 to see why this is wrong
FrostedMiniWeet
Profile Joined July 2009
United States636 Posts
October 08 2010 01:23 GMT
#1468
On October 08 2010 10:14 DyEnasTy wrote:
Wait, so now terran cant 8 rax or defend cheese without getting a supply depot? That doesnt seem right.


Do you send one of your initial scv's to your opponent to determine if you need to 8 rax to defend cheese? I've never seen anybody do that. Terran can defend cheese just fine with a standard depot rax build.
acceLL
Profile Joined September 2010
46 Posts
October 08 2010 01:25 GMT
#1469
On October 08 2010 10:23 FrostedMiniWeet wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 08 2010 10:14 DyEnasTy wrote:
Wait, so now terran cant 8 rax or defend cheese without getting a supply depot? That doesnt seem right.


Do you send one of your initial scv's to your opponent to determine if you need to 8 rax to defend cheese? I've never seen anybody do that. Terran can defend cheese just fine with a standard depot rax build.



Tell that to TLO
FrostedMiniWeet
Profile Joined July 2009
United States636 Posts
October 08 2010 01:25 GMT
#1470
On October 08 2010 10:15 Mikilatov wrote:
Requiring a depot for a rax is quite possibly the dumbest thing I've ever heard in relation to balancing this game. Seriously? What kind of shitty band-aid fix is that?

I'm a Terran player who will actually BENEFIT from this change, considering I don't cheese and I constantly get cheesed in TvT, and I still think that this is absolutely insane to do. What a lame fix.

If 6-pool was overpowered, would they make you require 2 overlords to make a spawning pool, rather than fixing the actual problem? That's god awful design. Completely decimating cheese as an option is absolutely retarded.

Why not make forges require gateways while they're at it. -_- It would be sooo dumb, same as this is.


Funny, I would prefer both of the silly changes you suggested, both the ovie before pool, and gateway before forge. Far less rage in the world that way, who wouldn't want that?
TyrantPotato
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Australia1541 Posts
October 08 2010 01:26 GMT
#1471
i remember when all zerg players were QQing when roaches were nerfed to 2 supply.

all the terran players were saying l2p.

well now all the terran players are whining about not being able to defend cheese because of supply depot requirment.

well terran players. L2P!
Forever ZeNEX.
DyEnasTy
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States3714 Posts
October 08 2010 01:33 GMT
#1472
On October 08 2010 10:23 FrostedMiniWeet wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 08 2010 10:14 DyEnasTy wrote:
Wait, so now terran cant 8 rax or defend cheese without getting a supply depot? That doesnt seem right.


Do you send one of your initial scv's to your opponent to determine if you need to 8 rax to defend cheese? I've never seen anybody do that. Terran can defend cheese just fine with a standard depot rax build.



No that is a very stupid comment in my opinion. Against zerg on small maps I like to 8 rax. I feel it doesnt really put me very far behind, combined with how many zergs 6 pool on steppes of war i can not only eliminate that, but once defended I can be ahead.

No I dont send my initial scv, and didnt do it in bw either. But even then, 8 raxing was a very comfortable thing to do on small maps.
Much better to die an awesome Terran than to live as a magic wielding fairy or a mindless sac of biological goop. -Manifesto7
kaos00
Profile Joined September 2010
United States125 Posts
October 08 2010 01:38 GMT
#1473
Mauraders are FINE!

Look at the stats and how hard 'Toss owns Terran... and Mauraders are the best counter to Gateway armies in a Terran arsenal.

The changed in OP look fair but I wonder about Reaper speed requiring a Factory. Reapers seem balanced now.
ThE_ShiZ
Profile Joined August 2010
United States143 Posts
October 08 2010 01:38 GMT
#1474
The roach upgrade is highly needed. They're pretty much useless past early game. You end up spending 150 on a warren and delaying your tech just to get out 4-5 roaches to stop reapers/hellion/4 gate.

Reapers will still be a legitimate strategy, so I don't know why people complain that it will be useless. The only difference is that the speed upgrade will be delayed a bit, but Terran has to get the factory anyway. The depot requirement seems a bit too much imo, but you can still force pool before hatch with depot first reaper builds.

I think eventually the balance changes will lead to zerg being able to safely go hatch first , like in sc1. Of course there will still be threats to that which will delay droning, and I have no problem with that.

I also think once the tvz imba phase gets killed off with patching they will try to address zvp, but its hard to do so without affecting tvp. The roach range upgrade will help a lot. I think once ICCup maps become standard we will see true balance. I laughed when I saw the new ladder maps. They make Kulas look like Disney Land for Zergs.
Anaconda Malt Liquor makes you oooooo....
billyX333
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
United States1360 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-08 01:43:58
October 08 2010 01:41 GMT
#1475
On October 08 2010 10:17 TheOGBlitzKrieg wrote:
buffing roaches at the same time nerfing reapers, say bye bye to seeing epic reaper micro games vs roaches off creep

right-click, a-click, right-click, a-click isnt epic. its stupidly infuriating. reapers need a nerf because there is no counter micro that exists to stop reapers except for speedling flank/surround which only works when you're 1) on creep and 2) no where near a cliff and 3) have 3x more lings than reapers (aka never)
FrodaN
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
754 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-08 01:43:22
October 08 2010 01:42 GMT
#1476
Are Terrans seriously crying out for Blizz to drag down Protoss players with them? We need a pylon to build a Gateway. There's the "balance" for you.
ThE_ShiZ
Profile Joined August 2010
United States143 Posts
October 08 2010 01:44 GMT
#1477
first the 2 gate build becomes obsolete, now the rax first build. The game is becoming boring when you're forced to stick to one track of builds


The game is boring when you can early aggro the Zerg to death without any risks and force an advantage. Seriously. in Brood War, 2 gate never killed your opponent or forced an advantage, it merely equalized because it forced Zerg to delay droning and invest in lings/sunkens. No one was complaining then that 2 gate was weak. God -forbid things become fair and all of a sudden they're useless now? Please... You can still 2 gate. It will still delay the zerg. You just can't 1a your way into the zergs main with 5 zlots and expand before he even breaks his ramp. I mean really, with chrono boost it's only like a 2.5 second difference from pre-patch.
Anaconda Malt Liquor makes you oooooo....
ReachTheSky
Profile Joined April 2010
United States3294 Posts
October 08 2010 01:44 GMT
#1478
Looks like post patch 1 rax cc will be the norm in tvt lol
TL+ Member
carebear91
Profile Joined February 2010
Singapore236 Posts
October 08 2010 01:48 GMT
#1479
requiring terrans to get a supply depot before barracks is just plain stupid. this will now make terran work the same way as protoss, being forced to throw down a pylon before getting anything else.

and if only enabling turbo packs after factory, why even include the unit in the game?. they might as well take out reapers from the game.
brocoli
Profile Joined February 2010
Brazil264 Posts
October 08 2010 01:50 GMT
#1480
AAghfs
Why? Why are they changing Reaper Speed to require Factory and not Concussive Shells?
What's the point of a technology you can get simultaneously with the units that use it, with the same building, that costs only 50/50, and ends fast enough that you have it by the time you get your first effective group of units?
Prev 1 72 73 74 75 76 87 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
PiG Sty Festival
09:00
Group D
YoungYakov vs ShoWTimELIVE!
ByuN vs Serral
PiGStarcraft1810
TKL 415
IndyStarCraft 321
BRAT_OK 230
Rex192
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
PiGStarcraft1810
TKL 415
IndyStarCraft 321
BRAT_OK 230
Rex 192
ProTech107
Vindicta 19
EmSc Tv 7
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 46719
Calm 6586
Horang2 2373
Jaedong 1406
Larva 1194
Mini 712
Stork 600
actioN 518
hero 375
Soma 304
[ Show more ]
Rush 232
Zeus 230
PianO 224
Sharp 105
JulyZerg 105
Dewaltoss 105
Shine 100
Barracks 83
Movie 79
Pusan 78
Killer 57
yabsab 48
soO 44
Hm[arnc] 36
sorry 31
Sacsri 29
ToSsGirL 24
Rock 18
NaDa 15
HiyA 14
scan(afreeca) 12
Terrorterran 11
Dota 2
Gorgc5362
qojqva1899
XcaliburYe170
Counter-Strike
fl0m2591
byalli1129
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King95
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor424
Liquid`Hasu16
Other Games
Grubby3876
singsing2641
Liquid`RaSZi1505
B2W.Neo1009
DeMusliM366
Sick204
ToD130
Organizations
Counter-Strike
PGL12928
StarCraft 2
WardiTV709
EmSc Tv 7
EmSc2Tv 7
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 12 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 1364
League of Legends
• Jankos3097
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
8h 49m
Replay Cast
17h 49m
Wardi Open
20h 49m
Monday Night Weeklies
1d 1h
OSC
1d 8h
WardiTV Winter Champion…
1d 20h
Replay Cast
2 days
WardiTV Winter Champion…
2 days
The PondCast
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
[ Show More ]
Korean StarCraft League
5 days
CranKy Ducklings
5 days
SC Evo Complete
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

[S:21] ASL SEASON OPEN 1st Round
LiuLi Cup: 2025 Grand Finals
Underdog Cup #3

Ongoing

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 1
WardiTV Winter 2026
PiG Sty Festival 7.0
Nations Cup 2026
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
eXTREMESLAND 2025
SL Budapest Major 2025

Upcoming

Acropolis #4 - TS5
Jeongseon Sooper Cup
Spring Cup 2026
[S:21] ASL SEASON OPEN 2nd Round
[S:21] ASL SEASON OPEN 2nd Round Qualifier
Acropolis #4 - TS6
Acropolis #4
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
RSL Revival: Season 4
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
CCT Season 3 Global Finals
FISSURE Playground #3
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League Season 23
ESL Pro League Season 23
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.