• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 10:11
CET 15:11
KST 23:11
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
ByuL: The Forgotten Master of ZvT30Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book19Clem wins HomeStory Cup 289HomeStory Cup 28 - Info & Preview13Rongyi Cup S3 - Preview & Info8
Community News
2026 KongFu Cup Announcement3BGE Stara Zagora 2026 cancelled12Blizzard Classic Cup - Tastosis announced as captains15Weekly Cups (March 2-8): ByuN overcomes PvT block4GSL CK - New online series18
StarCraft 2
General
BGE Stara Zagora 2026 cancelled Blizzard Classic Cup - Tastosis announced as captains BGE Stara Zagora 2026 announced ByuL: The Forgotten Master of ZvT Terran AddOns placement
Tourneys
RSL Season 4 announced for March-April PIG STY FESTIVAL 7.0! (19 Feb - 1 Mar) Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament 2026 KongFu Cup Announcement [GSL CK] Team Maru vs. Team herO
Strategy
Custom Maps
Publishing has been re-enabled! [Feb 24th 2026] Map Editor closed ?
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 516 Specter of Death Mutation # 515 Together Forever Mutation # 514 Ulnar New Year
Brood War
General
BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BSL 22 Map Contest — Submissions OPEN to March 10 ASL21 General Discussion Are you ready for ASL 21? Hype VIDEO Gypsy to Korea
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL22] Open Qualifiers & Ladder Tours IPSL Spring 2026 is here! ASL Season 21 Qualifiers March 7-8
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Soma's 9 hatch build from ASL Game 2 Fighting Spirit mining rates Zealot bombing is no longer popular?
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Path of Exile Nintendo Switch Thread PC Games Sales Thread No Man's Sky (PS4 and PC)
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion The Story of Wings Gaming
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Five o'clock TL Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas Vanilla Mini Mafia TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Mexico's Drug War Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine NASA and the Private Sector
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion! [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books
Sports
Formula 1 Discussion 2024 - 2026 Football Thread General nutrition recommendations Cricket [SPORT] TL MMA Pick'em Pool 2013
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Laptop capable of using Photoshop Lightroom?
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Money Laundering In Video Ga…
TrAiDoS
Iranian anarchists: organize…
XenOsky
FS++
Kraekkling
Shocked by a laser…
Spydermine0240
Unintentional protectionism…
Uldridge
ASL S21 English Commentary…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 2404 users

Blizzard on 1v1 Balancing and the new patch - Page 74

Forum Index > Community News and Headlines
1732 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 72 73 74 75 76 87 Next
Mikilatov
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States3897 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-08 01:16:56
October 08 2010 01:15 GMT
#1461
Requiring a depot for a rax is quite possibly the dumbest thing I've ever heard in relation to balancing this game. Seriously? What kind of shitty band-aid fix is that?

I'm a Terran player who will actually BENEFIT from this change, considering I don't cheese and I constantly get cheesed in TvT, and I still think that this is absolutely insane to do. What a lame fix.

If 6-pool was overpowered, would they make you require 2 overlords to make a spawning pool, rather than fixing the actual problem? That's god awful design. Completely decimating cheese as an option is absolutely retarded.

Why not make forges require gateways while they're at it. -_- It would be sooo dumb, same as this is.
♥ I used to lasso the shit out of your tournaments =( ♥ | Much is my hero. | zizi yO~ | Be Nice, TL.
TheOGBlitzKrieg
Profile Joined June 2010
United States346 Posts
October 08 2010 01:17 GMT
#1462
buffing roaches at the same time nerfing reapers, say bye bye to seeing epic reaper micro games vs roaches off creep
slained
Profile Blog Joined October 2006
Canada966 Posts
October 08 2010 01:17 GMT
#1463
first the 2 gate build becomes obsolete, now the rax first build. The game is becoming boring when you're forced to stick to one track of builds
Hypatio
Profile Joined September 2010
549 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-08 01:20:17
October 08 2010 01:17 GMT
#1464

No one likes getting cheesed, but removing cheese entirely from the game like they're doing with early rax is stupid IMO. Less variety is bad.

I don't see how requiring depot first will remove cheese. There will be approximately zero change in proxy rax.
Hypatio
Profile Joined September 2010
549 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-08 01:21:03
October 08 2010 01:19 GMT
#1465
On October 08 2010 10:17 slained wrote:
first the 2 gate build becomes obsolete, now the rax first build. The game is becoming boring when you're forced to stick to one track of builds

That is one of the reasons terran is getting the nerf bat. Terran has numerous openers which are highly efficacious. Zerg has something like 2 or 3, max. I think if you play terran you will find that the new nerfs will not eliminate any opener, even reapers, but the openers will change style.
jalstar
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
United States8198 Posts
October 08 2010 01:20 GMT
#1466
Reapers just became useless. They were useless late-game anyway I suppose. Would have been better to make conc shells require factory and leave reaper speed as is, since marauders are good late game, and it still removes an early game option from terran.

Requiring supply for rax is stupid, I agree.
jiz
Profile Joined October 2010
Canada15 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-08 01:22:09
October 08 2010 01:21 GMT
#1467
On October 08 2010 09:52 Drunken.Jedi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 08 2010 09:26 HiHiByeBye wrote:
Why are they buffing zerg when

in Diamond

49.6% win rate for Terran when fighting Zerg.

In Plat
47.3% win rate for Protoss when fighting Zerg.
44.5% win for Terran when fighting Zerg.

In gold

49.5% win rate for Terran when fighting Zerg.



+ the two new maps. Zergs are doing fine?

All those numbers show is that the matchmaking system is working as intended. Even if zerg were at a huge disadvantage, they would still win about half their games because they would simply be matched against protoss and terran player who are so much worse that the skill difference compensates for the imbalance.


see my post at the bottom of page 70 to see why this is wrong
FrostedMiniWeet
Profile Joined July 2009
United States636 Posts
October 08 2010 01:23 GMT
#1468
On October 08 2010 10:14 DyEnasTy wrote:
Wait, so now terran cant 8 rax or defend cheese without getting a supply depot? That doesnt seem right.


Do you send one of your initial scv's to your opponent to determine if you need to 8 rax to defend cheese? I've never seen anybody do that. Terran can defend cheese just fine with a standard depot rax build.
acceLL
Profile Joined September 2010
46 Posts
October 08 2010 01:25 GMT
#1469
On October 08 2010 10:23 FrostedMiniWeet wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 08 2010 10:14 DyEnasTy wrote:
Wait, so now terran cant 8 rax or defend cheese without getting a supply depot? That doesnt seem right.


Do you send one of your initial scv's to your opponent to determine if you need to 8 rax to defend cheese? I've never seen anybody do that. Terran can defend cheese just fine with a standard depot rax build.



Tell that to TLO
FrostedMiniWeet
Profile Joined July 2009
United States636 Posts
October 08 2010 01:25 GMT
#1470
On October 08 2010 10:15 Mikilatov wrote:
Requiring a depot for a rax is quite possibly the dumbest thing I've ever heard in relation to balancing this game. Seriously? What kind of shitty band-aid fix is that?

I'm a Terran player who will actually BENEFIT from this change, considering I don't cheese and I constantly get cheesed in TvT, and I still think that this is absolutely insane to do. What a lame fix.

If 6-pool was overpowered, would they make you require 2 overlords to make a spawning pool, rather than fixing the actual problem? That's god awful design. Completely decimating cheese as an option is absolutely retarded.

Why not make forges require gateways while they're at it. -_- It would be sooo dumb, same as this is.


Funny, I would prefer both of the silly changes you suggested, both the ovie before pool, and gateway before forge. Far less rage in the world that way, who wouldn't want that?
TyrantPotato
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Australia1541 Posts
October 08 2010 01:26 GMT
#1471
i remember when all zerg players were QQing when roaches were nerfed to 2 supply.

all the terran players were saying l2p.

well now all the terran players are whining about not being able to defend cheese because of supply depot requirment.

well terran players. L2P!
Forever ZeNEX.
DyEnasTy
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States3714 Posts
October 08 2010 01:33 GMT
#1472
On October 08 2010 10:23 FrostedMiniWeet wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 08 2010 10:14 DyEnasTy wrote:
Wait, so now terran cant 8 rax or defend cheese without getting a supply depot? That doesnt seem right.


Do you send one of your initial scv's to your opponent to determine if you need to 8 rax to defend cheese? I've never seen anybody do that. Terran can defend cheese just fine with a standard depot rax build.



No that is a very stupid comment in my opinion. Against zerg on small maps I like to 8 rax. I feel it doesnt really put me very far behind, combined with how many zergs 6 pool on steppes of war i can not only eliminate that, but once defended I can be ahead.

No I dont send my initial scv, and didnt do it in bw either. But even then, 8 raxing was a very comfortable thing to do on small maps.
Much better to die an awesome Terran than to live as a magic wielding fairy or a mindless sac of biological goop. -Manifesto7
kaos00
Profile Joined September 2010
United States125 Posts
October 08 2010 01:38 GMT
#1473
Mauraders are FINE!

Look at the stats and how hard 'Toss owns Terran... and Mauraders are the best counter to Gateway armies in a Terran arsenal.

The changed in OP look fair but I wonder about Reaper speed requiring a Factory. Reapers seem balanced now.
ThE_ShiZ
Profile Joined August 2010
United States143 Posts
October 08 2010 01:38 GMT
#1474
The roach upgrade is highly needed. They're pretty much useless past early game. You end up spending 150 on a warren and delaying your tech just to get out 4-5 roaches to stop reapers/hellion/4 gate.

Reapers will still be a legitimate strategy, so I don't know why people complain that it will be useless. The only difference is that the speed upgrade will be delayed a bit, but Terran has to get the factory anyway. The depot requirement seems a bit too much imo, but you can still force pool before hatch with depot first reaper builds.

I think eventually the balance changes will lead to zerg being able to safely go hatch first , like in sc1. Of course there will still be threats to that which will delay droning, and I have no problem with that.

I also think once the tvz imba phase gets killed off with patching they will try to address zvp, but its hard to do so without affecting tvp. The roach range upgrade will help a lot. I think once ICCup maps become standard we will see true balance. I laughed when I saw the new ladder maps. They make Kulas look like Disney Land for Zergs.
Anaconda Malt Liquor makes you oooooo....
billyX333
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
United States1360 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-08 01:43:58
October 08 2010 01:41 GMT
#1475
On October 08 2010 10:17 TheOGBlitzKrieg wrote:
buffing roaches at the same time nerfing reapers, say bye bye to seeing epic reaper micro games vs roaches off creep

right-click, a-click, right-click, a-click isnt epic. its stupidly infuriating. reapers need a nerf because there is no counter micro that exists to stop reapers except for speedling flank/surround which only works when you're 1) on creep and 2) no where near a cliff and 3) have 3x more lings than reapers (aka never)
FrodaN
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
754 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-08 01:43:22
October 08 2010 01:42 GMT
#1476
Are Terrans seriously crying out for Blizz to drag down Protoss players with them? We need a pylon to build a Gateway. There's the "balance" for you.
ThE_ShiZ
Profile Joined August 2010
United States143 Posts
October 08 2010 01:44 GMT
#1477
first the 2 gate build becomes obsolete, now the rax first build. The game is becoming boring when you're forced to stick to one track of builds


The game is boring when you can early aggro the Zerg to death without any risks and force an advantage. Seriously. in Brood War, 2 gate never killed your opponent or forced an advantage, it merely equalized because it forced Zerg to delay droning and invest in lings/sunkens. No one was complaining then that 2 gate was weak. God -forbid things become fair and all of a sudden they're useless now? Please... You can still 2 gate. It will still delay the zerg. You just can't 1a your way into the zergs main with 5 zlots and expand before he even breaks his ramp. I mean really, with chrono boost it's only like a 2.5 second difference from pre-patch.
Anaconda Malt Liquor makes you oooooo....
ReachTheSky
Profile Joined April 2010
United States3294 Posts
October 08 2010 01:44 GMT
#1478
Looks like post patch 1 rax cc will be the norm in tvt lol
TL+ Member
carebear91
Profile Joined February 2010
Singapore236 Posts
October 08 2010 01:48 GMT
#1479
requiring terrans to get a supply depot before barracks is just plain stupid. this will now make terran work the same way as protoss, being forced to throw down a pylon before getting anything else.

and if only enabling turbo packs after factory, why even include the unit in the game?. they might as well take out reapers from the game.
brocoli
Profile Joined February 2010
Brazil264 Posts
October 08 2010 01:50 GMT
#1480
AAghfs
Why? Why are they changing Reaper Speed to require Factory and not Concussive Shells?
What's the point of a technology you can get simultaneously with the units that use it, with the same building, that costs only 50/50, and ends fast enough that you have it by the time you get your first effective group of units?
Prev 1 72 73 74 75 76 87 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
WardiTV Team League
12:00
Group B
WardiTV665
IntoTheiNu 19
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Rex 96
MindelVK 22
StarCraft: Brood War
Sea 58404
Calm 15346
firebathero 6394
Horang2 2407
GuemChi 1959
Jaedong 1718
BeSt 599
Mini 417
EffOrt 361
Stork 330
[ Show more ]
Soma 296
Rush 259
actioN 152
Dewaltoss 150
Last 104
Mind 87
ToSsGirL 80
Sea.KH 58
Backho 53
Barracks 50
sorry 37
JulyZerg 34
Hm[arnc] 31
IntoTheRainbow 28
GoRush 23
Nal_rA 16
Terrorterran 15
SilentControl 10
ivOry 9
NaDa 7
Dota 2
Gorgc6134
canceldota135
BananaSlamJamma130
Counter-Strike
byalli647
x6flipin317
kRYSTAL_35
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor291
Liquid`Hasu53
Other Games
B2W.Neo2507
Liquid`RaSZi954
Fuzer 171
DeMusliM154
Hui .118
KnowMe98
Mew2King53
Organizations
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream18816
Other Games
gamesdonequick916
ComeBackTV 277
StarCraft: Brood War
lovetv 18
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 17 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• musti20045 30
• Adnapsc2 15
• CranKy Ducklings SOOP7
• StrangeGG 1
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• blackmanpl 28
• iopq 1
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 1675
Upcoming Events
Patches Events
2h 49m
BSL
5h 49m
GSL
17h 49m
Wardi Open
21h 49m
Monday Night Weeklies
1d 2h
WardiTV Team League
1d 21h
PiGosaur Cup
2 days
Kung Fu Cup
2 days
OSC
3 days
The PondCast
3 days
[ Show More ]
KCM Race Survival
3 days
WardiTV Team League
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
KCM Race Survival
4 days
WardiTV Team League
4 days
Korean StarCraft League
5 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
6 days
BSL
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-03-13
WardiTV Winter 2026
Underdog Cup #3

Ongoing

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 1
Jeongseon Sooper Cup
BSL Season 22
RSL Revival: Season 4
Nations Cup 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual

Upcoming

CSL Elite League 2026
ASL Season 21
Acropolis #4 - TS6
2026 Changsha Offline CUP
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
CSLAN 4
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
NationLESS Cup
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
CCT Season 3 Global Finals
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.