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Requiring a depot for a rax is quite possibly the dumbest thing I've ever heard in relation to balancing this game. Seriously? What kind of shitty band-aid fix is that?
I'm a Terran player who will actually BENEFIT from this change, considering I don't cheese and I constantly get cheesed in TvT, and I still think that this is absolutely insane to do. What a lame fix.
If 6-pool was overpowered, would they make you require 2 overlords to make a spawning pool, rather than fixing the actual problem? That's god awful design. Completely decimating cheese as an option is absolutely retarded.
Why not make forges require gateways while they're at it. -_- It would be sooo dumb, same as this is.
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buffing roaches at the same time nerfing reapers, say bye bye to seeing epic reaper micro games vs roaches off creep
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first the 2 gate build becomes obsolete, now the rax first build. The game is becoming boring when you're forced to stick to one track of builds
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No one likes getting cheesed, but removing cheese entirely from the game like they're doing with early rax is stupid IMO. Less variety is bad.
I don't see how requiring depot first will remove cheese. There will be approximately zero change in proxy rax.
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On October 08 2010 10:17 slained wrote:
first the 2 gate build becomes obsolete, now the rax first build. The game is becoming boring when you're forced to stick to one track of builds
That is one of the reasons terran is getting the nerf bat. Terran has numerous openers which are highly efficacious. Zerg has something like 2 or 3, max. I think if you play terran you will find that the new nerfs will not eliminate any opener, even reapers, but the openers will change style.
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Reapers just became useless. They were useless late-game anyway I suppose. Would have been better to make conc shells require factory and leave reaper speed as is, since marauders are good late game, and it still removes an early game option from terran.
Requiring supply for rax is stupid, I agree.
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On October 08 2010 09:52 Drunken.Jedi wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2010 09:26 HiHiByeBye wrote:
Why are they buffing zerg when
in Diamond
49.6% win rate for Terran when fighting Zerg.
In Plat
47.3% win rate for Protoss when fighting Zerg.
44.5% win for Terran when fighting Zerg.
In gold
49.5% win rate for Terran when fighting Zerg.
+ the two new maps. Zergs are doing fine? All those numbers show is that the matchmaking system is working as intended. Even if zerg were at a huge disadvantage, they would still win about half their games because they would simply be matched against protoss and terran player who are so much worse that the skill difference compensates for the imbalance.
see my post at the bottom of page 70 to see why this is wrong
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On October 08 2010 10:14 DyEnasTy wrote:
Wait, so now terran cant 8 rax or defend cheese without getting a supply depot? That doesnt seem right.
Do you send one of your initial scv's to your opponent to determine if you need to 8 rax to defend cheese? I've never seen anybody do that. Terran can defend cheese just fine with a standard depot rax build.
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On October 08 2010 10:23 FrostedMiniWeet wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2010 10:14 DyEnasTy wrote:
Wait, so now terran cant 8 rax or defend cheese without getting a supply depot? That doesnt seem right. Do you send one of your initial scv's to your opponent to determine if you need to 8 rax to defend cheese? I've never seen anybody do that. Terran can defend cheese just fine with a standard depot rax build.
Tell that to TLO
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On October 08 2010 10:15 Mikilatov wrote:
Requiring a depot for a rax is quite possibly the dumbest thing I've ever heard in relation to balancing this game. Seriously? What kind of shitty band-aid fix is that?
I'm a Terran player who will actually BENEFIT from this change, considering I don't cheese and I constantly get cheesed in TvT, and I still think that this is absolutely insane to do. What a lame fix.
If 6-pool was overpowered, would they make you require 2 overlords to make a spawning pool, rather than fixing the actual problem? That's god awful design. Completely decimating cheese as an option is absolutely retarded.
Why not make forges require gateways while they're at it. -_- It would be sooo dumb, same as this is.
Funny, I would prefer both of the silly changes you suggested, both the ovie before pool, and gateway before forge. Far less rage in the world that way, who wouldn't want that?
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i remember when all zerg players were QQing when roaches were nerfed to 2 supply.
all the terran players were saying l2p.
well now all the terran players are whining about not being able to defend cheese because of supply depot requirment.
well terran players. L2P!
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On October 08 2010 10:23 FrostedMiniWeet wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2010 10:14 DyEnasTy wrote:
Wait, so now terran cant 8 rax or defend cheese without getting a supply depot? That doesnt seem right. Do you send one of your initial scv's to your opponent to determine if you need to 8 rax to defend cheese? I've never seen anybody do that. Terran can defend cheese just fine with a standard depot rax build.
No that is a very stupid comment in my opinion. Against zerg on small maps I like to 8 rax. I feel it doesnt really put me very far behind, combined with how many zergs 6 pool on steppes of war i can not only eliminate that, but once defended I can be ahead.
No I dont send my initial scv, and didnt do it in bw either. But even then, 8 raxing was a very comfortable thing to do on small maps.
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Mauraders are FINE!
Look at the stats and how hard 'Toss owns Terran... and Mauraders are the best counter to Gateway armies in a Terran arsenal.
The changed in OP look fair but I wonder about Reaper speed requiring a Factory. Reapers seem balanced now.
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The roach upgrade is highly needed. They're pretty much useless past early game. You end up spending 150 on a warren and delaying your tech just to get out 4-5 roaches to stop reapers/hellion/4 gate.
Reapers will still be a legitimate strategy, so I don't know why people complain that it will be useless. The only difference is that the speed upgrade will be delayed a bit, but Terran has to get the factory anyway. The depot requirement seems a bit too much imo, but you can still force pool before hatch with depot first reaper builds.
I think eventually the balance changes will lead to zerg being able to safely go hatch first , like in sc1. Of course there will still be threats to that which will delay droning, and I have no problem with that.
I also think once the tvz imba phase gets killed off with patching they will try to address zvp, but its hard to do so without affecting tvp. The roach range upgrade will help a lot. I think once ICCup maps become standard we will see true balance. I laughed when I saw the new ladder maps. They make Kulas look like Disney Land for Zergs.
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On October 08 2010 10:17 TheOGBlitzKrieg wrote:
buffing roaches at the same time nerfing reapers, say bye bye to seeing epic reaper micro games vs roaches off creep
right-click, a-click, right-click, a-click isnt epic. its stupidly infuriating. reapers need a nerf because there is no counter micro that exists to stop reapers except for speedling flank/surround which only works when you're 1) on creep and 2) no where near a cliff and 3) have 3x more lings than reapers (aka never)
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Are Terrans seriously crying out for Blizz to drag down Protoss players with them? We need a pylon to build a Gateway. There's the "balance" for you.
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first the 2 gate build becomes obsolete, now the rax first build. The game is becoming boring when you're forced to stick to one track of builds
The game is boring when you can early aggro the Zerg to death without any risks and force an advantage. Seriously. in Brood War, 2 gate never killed your opponent or forced an advantage, it merely equalized because it forced Zerg to delay droning and invest in lings/sunkens. No one was complaining then that 2 gate was weak. God -forbid things become fair and all of a sudden they're useless now? Please... You can still 2 gate. It will still delay the zerg. You just can't 1a your way into the zergs main with 5 zlots and expand before he even breaks his ramp. I mean really, with chrono boost it's only like a 2.5 second difference from pre-patch.
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Looks like post patch 1 rax cc will be the norm in tvt lol
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requiring terrans to get a supply depot before barracks is just plain stupid. this will now make terran work the same way as protoss, being forced to throw down a pylon before getting anything else.
and if only enabling turbo packs after factory, why even include the unit in the game?. they might as well take out reapers from the game.
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AAghfs
Why? Why are they changing Reaper Speed to require Factory and not Concussive Shells?
What's the point of a technology you can get simultaneously with the units that use it, with the same building, that costs only 50/50, and ends fast enough that you have it by the time you get your first effective group of units?
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EPT
