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Drowsy
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
United States4876 Posts
January 04 2010 19:55 GMT
#1181
Even if the Fermi predictably isn't as great as they said it will be, won't it's release still drive down prices for all the ATI cards? That's the main reason I'm going to be waiting to buy my graphics card. And maybe it actually will be good/better than ATI's dx11 line.

Our Protoss, Who art in Aiur HongUn be Thy name; Thy stalker come, Thy will be blunk, on ladder as it is in Micro Tourny. Give us this win in our daily ladder, and forgive us our cheeses, As we forgive those who play zerg against us.
FragKrag
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
United States11567 Posts
January 05 2010 01:57 GMT
#1182
Drowsy if you are going to want to save money, buying nvidia cards at launch is the worst thing you can possibly do to your wallet. I doubt nvidia's cards will perform better except at the highest scale so nvidia can brag about having the most powerful graphics card.
*TL CJ Entusman #40* "like scissors does anything to paper except MAKE IT MORE NUMEROUS" -paper
Drowsy
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
United States4876 Posts
January 05 2010 02:10 GMT
#1183
On January 05 2010 10:57 FragKrag wrote:
Drowsy if you are going to want to save money, buying nvidia cards at launch is the worst thing you can possibly do to your wallet. I doubt nvidia's cards will perform better except at the highest scale so nvidia can brag about having the most powerful graphics card.

I have no intention of buying a nvidia dx11 card unless the benchmarks warrant it, but I think regardless of how they perform, as long as they're close with the ati cards, it should result in a decline in the prices of the ati dx11 cards that are already out.
Our Protoss, Who art in Aiur HongUn be Thy name; Thy stalker come, Thy will be blunk, on ladder as it is in Micro Tourny. Give us this win in our daily ladder, and forgive us our cheeses, As we forgive those who play zerg against us.
Boblion
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
France8043 Posts
January 05 2010 02:24 GMT
#1184
On January 05 2010 11:10 Drowsy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 05 2010 10:57 FragKrag wrote:
Drowsy if you are going to want to save money, buying nvidia cards at launch is the worst thing you can possibly do to your wallet. I doubt nvidia's cards will perform better except at the highest scale so nvidia can brag about having the most powerful graphics card.

I have no intention of buying a nvidia dx11 card unless the benchmarks warrant it, but I think regardless of how they perform, as long as they're close with the ati cards, it should result in a decline in the prices of the ati dx11 cards that are already out.

Problem is that they are delayed because they are not close with the Ati cards yet so you will have to wait more :p
fuck all those elitists brb watching streams of elite players.
FragKrag
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
United States11567 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-01-05 02:27:37
January 05 2010 02:25 GMT
#1185
I'm not too sure about that though. ATi cards in the 58 and 59 level are still overpriced due to high demand and the lack of supply, but as that problem corrects itself, the prices will go down naturally. I don't think ATi will consider lowering the price of its own line because nvidia cards will already be extremely overpriced :p

edit: Actually I haven't checked the prices recently (like last month) so I'm not sure if that statement is true.
*TL CJ Entusman #40* "like scissors does anything to paper except MAKE IT MORE NUMEROUS" -paper
hkfosho
Profile Joined August 2009
Canada213 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-01-05 02:47:15
January 05 2010 02:45 GMT
#1186
We're not being nVidia fanboys here. We're just stating the inevitable - that nVidia will eventually outperform ATI's dx11 cards. I'm sure nVidia messed up some of the models of the 200 series, thus causing them to delay their "300 series" cards. I mean seriously, they had 4 different types of gtx 260 cards. Four. Along with them came the 275, 285, and finally to their current leading card, 295.

If you can throw out a couple bills and can't wait to get ahold of a new graphics card, I suggest you purchase ATI 4890 from newegg or something. I've heard lots of good reviews of that card, certainly outperforming gtx 260 overclocked cards and even the 275 dare I say.
ghermination
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
United States2851 Posts
January 05 2010 03:38 GMT
#1187
On January 05 2010 11:45 hkfosho wrote:
We're not being nVidia fanboys here. We're just stating the inevitable - that nVidia will eventually outperform ATI's dx11 cards. I'm sure nVidia messed up some of the models of the 200 series, thus causing them to delay their "300 series" cards. I mean seriously, they had 4 different types of gtx 260 cards. Four. Along with them came the 275, 285, and finally to their current leading card, 295.

If you can throw out a couple bills and can't wait to get ahold of a new graphics card, I suggest you purchase ATI 4890 from newegg or something. I've heard lots of good reviews of that card, certainly outperforming gtx 260 overclocked cards and even the 275 dare I say.


The 4890 has about the same FLOPS of a gtx285, but it gets raped by that 512-bit memory bus and shader power.
U Gotta Skate.
FragKrag
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
United States11567 Posts
January 05 2010 04:29 GMT
#1188
512 bit memory bus would be useless for the 4890 no? It's just one gpu while the 285 has 2 gpus.
*TL CJ Entusman #40* "like scissors does anything to paper except MAKE IT MORE NUMEROUS" -paper
semantics
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
10040 Posts
January 05 2010 05:26 GMT
#1189
512bus for 4890 would make the card bigger it wouldn't be useful but ATI profit margin for the card would go down even more all the 512 bus would do it increase the overclock range. Nvidia cards don't scale to well and run hot but they are absolutely the best overclockers esp using liquid helium/nitrogen etc A GTX275 can hit like 1500mhz core clock when it's original is like half that

You forget Nvidia is worth about the same as AMD because they have better oem deals low cost igp and discrete cards is were they make the most money, which is why nvidia is tring to push into the hptc market as they are entrenched with intel in legal matters over chipsets and igp and they got pushed out of the amd market after ati was acquired by them.

FLOPS in any matter is a matter shit in gaming performance lol really it only matters for what cuda is used for hptc
Boblion
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
France8043 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-01-05 16:11:59
January 05 2010 16:10 GMT
#1190
On January 05 2010 11:45 hkfosho wrote:
We're not being nVidia fanboys here. We're just stating the inevitable - that nVidia will eventually outperform ATI's dx11 cards.

Maybe it will outperform THIS generation but 6+ months later lol
Then ATI will release a new generation and Nvidia will be behind again.

On January 05 2010 11:45 hkfosho wrote:
I'm sure nVidia messed up some of the models of the 200 series, thus causing them to delay their "300 series" cards. I mean seriously, they had 4 different types of gtx 260 cards. Four. Along with them came the 275, 285, and finally to their current leading card, 295.

When you can't release new cards just rename the old ones. It will always fool stupid people and make the fan boys happy.
fuck all those elitists brb watching streams of elite players.
ghermination
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
United States2851 Posts
January 05 2010 23:09 GMT
#1191
On January 05 2010 13:29 FragKrag wrote:
512 bit memory bus would be useless for the 4890 no? It's just one gpu while the 285 has 2 gpus.


The 285 has one GPU. You're thinking of the 295.
U Gotta Skate.
BeMannerDuPenner
Profile Blog Joined April 2004
Germany5638 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-01-05 23:22:30
January 05 2010 23:20 GMT
#1192
the current gfx card market is a total joke. if you want a new card you have 3 options:

1. get a cheap 4870 and wait till the market is ok again. <- best solution

2. get a cheap 5770 and wait longer till you upgrade but suffer from not enough performance to use the features of the 5xxx generation <- best solution if you can resell the card for a decent price

3. buy a totally WTFAREUKIDDINGME overpriced 5870 and be happy for now .but they cost up to 400€!!!! here(for you americans, ~ 600$+) cause no one has one for sale

but i will stay with my old gt140 (9600gt) which runs pretty much evrything fine (@4gbram + phenom 955,overclocked) at 1680x1050 if you dont go nuts with the AA&AF .and even then only crysis/farcry2 have serious framedrops. other games like batman or assassins creed which imho look just as good/better run perfect even on the absolute max settings. and in 6-9 months when the new generation is at a reasonable price i will upgrade to whatever has the best bang for the buck.



atm there is just no reason to buy any nvidia card right now. they are all overpriced like hell for the performance they bring. the funny thing is this wont change most likely.

you can bet that the new 3xx series will be expensive as hell. even moreso considering that they plan to let the same company produce their 40 chips that currently has the huge problems producing enough for ati. so if they dont improve A SHIT TON the 3xx release will be funny. they cant produce enough chips right now for ati, so how do they plan to produce enough for nvidia 3xx series + ati 5xxx series in 2 months? time will tell.


yes the gfxcard market is really fun atm ^_^v
life of lively to live to life of full life thx to shield battery
semantics
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
10040 Posts
January 06 2010 01:04 GMT
#1193
ATI is overraited by it's fanboys it made a decient product but pretty much failed to deliver just like how fermi is turning out

the 5800 is pretty sad, they missed the mm² die size by a lot, the 5850/5870 was supposed to be $199/$299 just like the 4850/4870.
The 4800 had 800 shaders vs 320 in the 3800. They didn't even double the die size.
3800 -> 4800 = 55nm -> 55nm
4800 -> 5800 = 55nm -> 40nm
They put 1600 SP's in there, but the die size more than doubled! I'll give them 30% of the die size for tessellators/DX11 hardware (the 4800/3800 had a tessellator too) but that's still the 89% they gained from moving fab process.

The 4870 killed the 3870X2 more than the 5870 did to the 4870X2.

Currently the market is all fed up in prices as ATI cards are some of the cheapest to produce yet ati charging high prices due to short supply. ATI fanboys don't realise that they are just as money hungry as Nvidia, only diff is that nvidia uses a higher memory bus and been stuck at a larger die size for longer so their high end cards cost more then what ati would pay for similar performance. But i don't see anything too wrong with ATI price gouging AMD is one poor mofo company even after pay offs by intel i think they are still in debt from what 4 years back now?

Personally i'd wait for nvidia to enter the dx11 market before i would even consider buying a card at least just to push pricing down.
BeMannerDuPenner
Profile Blog Joined April 2004
Germany5638 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-01-06 02:09:21
January 06 2010 02:07 GMT
#1194
On January 06 2010 10:04 Virtue wrote:
ATI is overraited by it's fanboys it made a decient product but pretty much failed to deliver just like how fermi is turning out

the 5800 is pretty sad, they missed the mm² die size by a lot, the 5850/5870 was supposed to be $199/$299 just like the 4850/4870.
The 4800 had 800 shaders vs 320 in the 3800. They didn't even double the die size.
3800 -> 4800 = 55nm -> 55nm
4800 -> 5800 = 55nm -> 40nm
They put 1600 SP's in there, but the die size more than doubled! I'll give them 30% of the die size for tessellators/DX11 hardware (the 4800/3800 had a tessellator too) but that's still the 89% they gained from moving fab process.

The 4870 killed the 3870X2 more than the 5870 did to the 4870X2.

Currently the market is all fed up in prices as ATI cards are some of the cheapest to produce yet ati charging high prices due to short supply. ATI fanboys don't realise that they are just as money hungry as Nvidia, only diff is that nvidia uses a higher memory bus and been stuck at a larger die size for longer so their high end cards cost more then what ati would pay for similar performance. But i don't see anything too wrong with ATI price gouging AMD is one poor mofo company even after pay offs by intel i think they are still in debt from what 4 years back now?

Personally i'd wait for nvidia to enter the dx11 market before i would even consider buying a card at least just to push pricing down.


ati isnt responsible for the price. its the shops that sell them.

and fanboy crap at hardware is retarded beyond belief in either way anyways. evrytime i see someone post something like " ati/nvidia/intel/amd 4life!!!!!111eleven fuck ati/nvidia/intel/amd they suck !!!111one" i want to kick their retarded head off just for darwin reasons.


and yeah, they both are failing hard with their production and development.thats why evryone who can should wait atleast 3-6 months before considering any "nextgen" cards.
life of lively to live to life of full life thx to shield battery
ghermination
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
United States2851 Posts
January 06 2010 02:41 GMT
#1195
Virtue, every time i read a post in your terrible, pre-3rd grade grammar, it makes a little of me die inside. But that doesn't mean i don't agree with you on a lot of your points.

So i dedicate my 2000'th post to you.
U Gotta Skate.
FragKrag
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
United States11567 Posts
January 06 2010 03:28 GMT
#1196
at least he gives sound advice
*TL CJ Entusman #40* "like scissors does anything to paper except MAKE IT MORE NUMEROUS" -paper
semantics
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
10040 Posts
January 06 2010 03:41 GMT
#1197
I make up for my poor grammar and lack of obvious thought in my sentence structures by dropping facts or at least a decent opinion.
Rigodon666
Profile Joined November 2006
Canada183 Posts
January 06 2010 04:06 GMT
#1198
Just wait until 3dFx comes back and take the crown with the voodoo 8 -_-. nVidia and ATI stole it from them years ago .
I'll call the guy who will call Nada
semantics
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
10040 Posts
January 06 2010 04:53 GMT
#1199
On January 06 2010 13:06 Rigodon666 wrote:
Just wait until 3dFx comes back and take the crown with the voodoo 8 -_-. nVidia and ATI stole it from them years ago .

lol with their old skool sli that renders every other line!
3dfx is part of nvidia now they bought them out after their voodoo 4 and 5 just bombed it's why nvidia has the rights to SLI
ghermination
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
United States2851 Posts
January 06 2010 07:17 GMT
#1200
Also, is anyone else excited about the core i3 release tomorrow? I'm going to spec and put together a build with my friend using the i3 so i'll post about how it oc's and whatnot.
U Gotta Skate.
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