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On March 27 2009 07:32 Person514cs wrote:
So.. If I let my 10 years old son play around with a nuclear bomb and some how he blow up a city and killed 10 million people. My son will suddenly become the most evil person ever lived?
im pretty sure at 11 years old you can understand that shooting someone in the head = bad
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On March 27 2009 09:24 Night[Mare wrote:
That's so sad. I dont think the kid deserves life prision or death penalty. He's obviously mentally ill. Have some faith in humanity please.
Doesnt mean he doesnt deserves to be fucking punished badly.
Why isn't this said about ALL murderers?
What about serial killers? are they not mentally ill?
How do you distinguish between who is mentally ill and needs help and who is mentally ill and should go to jail....????????????????????????????????????????????????????
On March 27 2009 07:55 baal wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2009 06:55 Reason wrote:
So he's 11. So what?
Where do you draw the line ?
Wherever you draw it, 16, 15, 14, 13, 12, 11, eventually somebody right on the limit is going to be put into jail, and somebody 2 days before their birthday will get away with it.
There's no age difference between these two people other than a few days, yet one is completely liable and the other gets away with it. That is just stupid.
This story and the comments about it bother me because there's a lot of injustice and abuse world wide.
A lot of people have a lived a fucked up life and don't kill anyone for it, even their abuser, even though that's totally justified IMO. They get through it.
For those that don't, we don't allow this "fucked up life" to be a reason for letting people off with murdering or raping somebody. We still convict them and put them in jail.
How can you say because this boy is 11 it is ok to give him therapy and try to rehabilitate him when some guy in his early twenties who had a totally fucked up life who goes on to kill someone will be branded a killer and thrown into jail or executed with no one giving a shit about him?
So to all you people who want to be lenient on him, or suggesting not jail but juvenile or whatever....
Think about every person who had a hard life who murdered somebody and was put in jail or was executed.
Maybe they need therapy and imprisoning somebody for any crime is the most barbaric crime of all? I mean think of their pain!
Is this what you are suggesting?
If not, at what point, what specific date on the calender in anyone's life should we change our opinion from
"What a shame this child was abused, kid needs therapy, help him"...
to
"Throw him in jail."
Or in the case of America, [and some other countries? I'm not sure exactly]
"Commence the execution."
Edit: To the above post...
Possibly something to do with the fact that it wasn't in the early stages of life she was nine months pregnant which is virtually born, and murdering a new born baby is still murder, possibly the worst murder you can commit.
It's nothing to do with whether the mother wants it, and I'm fairly sure people don't "abort" a pregnancy after a certain time, you give birth and give it away if you don't want it. You are an idiot if you think a 11yo should be treated as a 20yo, that would mean you have the same choice making hability as a 11yo (actually you probably do). There is a fucking reason why you cant drink/smoke/etc when you are underage, because you are NOT an adult and you cannot be treated like one. Its fucked up when punishing a 11yo he is an adult, but while granting rights, he is not.
Ok so first you say I'm an idiot if I think that an 11 year old has the same decision making ability as a 20 year old, then you go onto say actually they probably do.
By your own logic you are actually probably an idiot.
Secondly, indeed their is a reason why you can't drink some at a certain age. I'm not refuting that. The point is that it's fucking dumb that on the night before my 18th birthday its ILLEGAL for me to smoke, anyone caught selling me can get £5000 fine, maybe lose their job and possibly jail time or community service, but the next day its totally legit?
Like what the fuck happened overnight that SUDDENLY makes me mature enough to smoke and drink and have sex?
"because you are NOT an adult and you cannot be treated like one"
NO SON, YOUR 17 YEARS 11 MONTHS AND 30 DAYS OLD. YOU ARE NOT AN ADULT AND CANNOT BE TREATED LIKE ONE.
GOOD MORNING SON. IT'S YOUR 18TH BIRTHDAY. YOU ARE NOW AN ADULT!!
Shit, wtf? Yesterday I wasn't an adult, and now I am! I don't feel any different... hmm...
Do I need to continue with pointing out how fucking retarded that is?
Silly thing here is in my country you can get married at 16. You can't drink champagne on your wedding night and you can't smoke a cigar. So you can make a decision, getting married, which is supposed to change the rest of your life, but you're not mature enough to smoke and drink? That's stupid.
So take murder. What age you gonna set ? 18 ? You telling me people can kill whoever they want as long as they are 17 or younger? Bullshit.
Ok. 16. So a 15 year old can commit murder and get away with it... bullshit.
Ok. 14. So a 13 year old can get away with it......
Do I need to continue?
What age is murder acceptable? NO age I say. Murder is not acceptable and most kids learn that before they've even reached primary school. This kid was old enough to be finishing primary if not starting high school... isn't that long enough to learn kids.... killing is bad m'kay?
On March 27 2009 08:04 sigma_x wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2009 06:55 Reason wrote:
So he's 11. So what?
Where do you draw the line ?
Wherever you draw it, 16, 15, 14, 13, 12, 11, eventually somebody right on the limit is going to be put into jail, and somebody 2 days before their birthday will get away with it.
There's no age difference between these two people other than a few days, yet one is completely liable and the other gets away with it. That is just stupid.
This story and the comments about it bother me because there's a lot of injustice and abuse world wide.
A lot of people have a lived a fucked up life and don't kill anyone for it, even their abuser, even though that's totally justified IMO. They get through it.
For those that don't, we don't allow this "fucked up life" to be a reason for letting people off with murdering or raping somebody. We still convict them and put them in jail.
How can you say because this boy is 11 it is ok to give him therapy and try to rehabilitate him when some guy in his early twenties who had a totally fucked up life who goes on to kill someone will be branded a killer and thrown into jail or executed with no one giving a shit about him?
So to all you people who want to be lenient on him, or suggesting not jail but juvenile or whatever....
Think about every person who had a hard life who murdered somebody and was put in jail or was executed.
Maybe they need therapy and imprisoning somebody for any crime is the most barbaric crime of all? I mean think of their pain!
Is this what you are suggesting?
If not, at what point, what specific date on the calender in anyone's life should we change our opinion from
"What a shame this child was abused, kid needs therapy, help him"...
to
"Throw him in jail."
Or in the case of America, [and some other countries? I'm not sure exactly]
"Commence the execution."
Edit: To the above post...
Possibly something to do with the fact that it wasn't in the early stages of life she was nine months pregnant which is virtually born, and murdering a new born baby is still murder, possibly the worst murder you can commit.
It's nothing to do with whether the mother wants it, and I'm fairly sure people don't "abort" a pregnancy after a certain time, you give birth and give it away if you don't want it. I don't know about US law, but in australia, there is a presumption that a child between the ages of 10 to 14 will not be charged with a crime. This presumption can be rebutted if there is evidence of awareness of the wrongful consequences of their action. What i mean by this, is that the slippery slide argument doesn't bear any weight as long as you respect the fact that cases which lie on the border line should be treated on their own merits. Edit: in reply to that post
What I really want to get at is what I put earlier in this post...
How do you distinguish between who is mentally ill and needs help and who is mentally ill and should go to jail....?
But in answer to this... where do you draw the line that the slippery slide stems from? I mean really 10-14? Why did you give this age range.. what about kids 1-9 ? Is that SO OBVIOUS that it's not included, but ages 10-14 need covering by some law because there it becomes questionable?
Say you drew the line at 14 then. Cases judged on merit. Well he is three years short of the line..but he blew her head off with a shotgun for christ's sake....killing her unborn child in the process. That's unforgivable.
I think that's "merit" enough to be put in jail for life, and to be counting yourself lucky that you are allowed to live.
You sure as hell didn't grant her and the unborn baby that same mercy, whatever it is they did to you, if anything. Whatever it was, it clearly wasn't killing you, because you're still alive and murdering people.
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On March 27 2009 09:34 Reason wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2009 09:24 Night[Mare wrote:
That's so sad. I dont think the kid deserves life prision or death penalty. He's obviously mentally ill. Have some faith in humanity please.
Doesnt mean he doesnt deserves to be fucking punished badly. Why isn't this said about ALL murderers? What about serial killers? are they not mentally ill? How do you distinguish between who is mentally ill and needs help and who is mentally ill and should go to jail....???????????????????????????????????????????????????? Show nested quote +On March 27 2009 07:55 baal wrote:On March 27 2009 06:55 Reason wrote:
So he's 11. So what?
Where do you draw the line ?
Wherever you draw it, 16, 15, 14, 13, 12, 11, eventually somebody right on the limit is going to be put into jail, and somebody 2 days before their birthday will get away with it.
There's no age difference between these two people other than a few days, yet one is completely liable and the other gets away with it. That is just stupid.
This story and the comments about it bother me because there's a lot of injustice and abuse world wide.
A lot of people have a lived a fucked up life and don't kill anyone for it, even their abuser, even though that's totally justified IMO. They get through it.
For those that don't, we don't allow this "fucked up life" to be a reason for letting people off with murdering or raping somebody. We still convict them and put them in jail.
How can you say because this boy is 11 it is ok to give him therapy and try to rehabilitate him when some guy in his early twenties who had a totally fucked up life who goes on to kill someone will be branded a killer and thrown into jail or executed with no one giving a shit about him?
So to all you people who want to be lenient on him, or suggesting not jail but juvenile or whatever....
Think about every person who had a hard life who murdered somebody and was put in jail or was executed.
Maybe they need therapy and imprisoning somebody for any crime is the most barbaric crime of all? I mean think of their pain!
Is this what you are suggesting?
If not, at what point, what specific date on the calender in anyone's life should we change our opinion from
"What a shame this child was abused, kid needs therapy, help him"...
to
"Throw him in jail."
Or in the case of America, [and some other countries? I'm not sure exactly]
"Commence the execution."
Edit: To the above post...
Possibly something to do with the fact that it wasn't in the early stages of life she was nine months pregnant which is virtually born, and murdering a new born baby is still murder, possibly the worst murder you can commit.
It's nothing to do with whether the mother wants it, and I'm fairly sure people don't "abort" a pregnancy after a certain time, you give birth and give it away if you don't want it. You are an idiot if you think a 11yo should be treated as a 20yo, that would mean you have the same choice making hability as a 11yo (actually you probably do). There is a fucking reason why you cant drink/smoke/etc when you are underage, because you are NOT an adult and you cannot be treated like one. Its fucked up when punishing a 11yo he is an adult, but while granting rights, he is not. Ok so first you say I'm an idiot if I think that an 11 year old has the same decision making ability as a 20 year old, then you go onto say actually they probably do. By your own logic you are actually probably an idiot. Secondly, indeed their is a reason why you can't drink some at a certain age. I'm not refuting that. The point is that it's fucking dumb that on the night before my 18th birthday its ILLEGAL for me to smoke, anyone caught selling me can get £5000 fine, maybe lose their job and possibly jail time or community service, but the next day its totally legit? Like what the fuck happened overnight that SUDDENLY makes me mature enough to smoke and drink and have sex? "because you are NOT an adult and you cannot be treated like one" NO SON, YOUR 17 YEARS 11 MONTHS AND 30 DAYS OLD. YOU ARE NOT AN ADULT AND CANNOT BE TREATED LIKE ONE. GOOD MORNING SON. IT'S YOUR 18TH BIRTHDAY. YOU ARE NOW AN ADULT!! Shit, wtf? Yesterday I wasn't an adult, and now I am! I don't feel any different... hmm... Do I need to continue with pointing out how fucking retarded that is? Silly thing here is in my country you can get married at 16. You can't drink champagne on your wedding night and you can't smoke a cigar. So you can make a decision, getting married, which is supposed to change the rest of your life, but you're not mature enough to smoke and drink? That's stupid. So take murder. What age you gonna set ? 18 ? You telling me people can kill whoever they want as long as they are 17 or younger? Bullshit. Ok. 16. So a 15 year old can commit murder and get away with it... bullshit. Ok. 14. So a 13 year old can get away with it...... Do I need to continue? What age is murder acceptable? NO age I say. Murder is not acceptable and most kids learn that before they've even reached primary school. This kid was old enough to be finishing primary if not starting high school... isn't that long enough to learn kids.... killing is bad m'kay? Show nested quote +On March 27 2009 08:04 sigma_x wrote:On March 27 2009 06:55 Reason wrote:
So he's 11. So what?
Where do you draw the line ?
Wherever you draw it, 16, 15, 14, 13, 12, 11, eventually somebody right on the limit is going to be put into jail, and somebody 2 days before their birthday will get away with it.
There's no age difference between these two people other than a few days, yet one is completely liable and the other gets away with it. That is just stupid.
This story and the comments about it bother me because there's a lot of injustice and abuse world wide.
A lot of people have a lived a fucked up life and don't kill anyone for it, even their abuser, even though that's totally justified IMO. They get through it.
For those that don't, we don't allow this "fucked up life" to be a reason for letting people off with murdering or raping somebody. We still convict them and put them in jail.
How can you say because this boy is 11 it is ok to give him therapy and try to rehabilitate him when some guy in his early twenties who had a totally fucked up life who goes on to kill someone will be branded a killer and thrown into jail or executed with no one giving a shit about him?
So to all you people who want to be lenient on him, or suggesting not jail but juvenile or whatever....
Think about every person who had a hard life who murdered somebody and was put in jail or was executed.
Maybe they need therapy and imprisoning somebody for any crime is the most barbaric crime of all? I mean think of their pain!
Is this what you are suggesting?
If not, at what point, what specific date on the calender in anyone's life should we change our opinion from
"What a shame this child was abused, kid needs therapy, help him"...
to
"Throw him in jail."
Or in the case of America, [and some other countries? I'm not sure exactly]
"Commence the execution."
Edit: To the above post...
Possibly something to do with the fact that it wasn't in the early stages of life she was nine months pregnant which is virtually born, and murdering a new born baby is still murder, possibly the worst murder you can commit.
It's nothing to do with whether the mother wants it, and I'm fairly sure people don't "abort" a pregnancy after a certain time, you give birth and give it away if you don't want it. I don't know about US law, but in australia, there is a presumption that a child between the ages of 10 to 14 will not be charged with a crime. This presumption can be rebutted if there is evidence of awareness of the wrongful consequences of their action. What i mean by this, is that the slippery slide argument doesn't bear any weight as long as you respect the fact that cases which lie on the border line should be treated on their own merits. Edit: in reply to that post What I really want to get at is what I put earlier in this post... How do you distinguish between who is mentally ill and needs help and who is mentally ill and should go to jail....? But in answer to this... where do you draw the line that the slippery slide stems from? I mean really 10-14? Why did you give this age range.. what about kids 1-9 ? Is that SO OBVIOUS that it's not included, but ages 10-14 need covering by some law because there it becomes questionable? Say you drew the line at 14 then. Cases judged on merit. Well he is three years short of the line..but he blew her head off with a shotgun for christ's sake....killing her unborn child in the process. That's unforgivable. I think that's "merit" enough to be put in jail for life, and to be counting yourself lucky that you are allowed to live. You sure as hell didn't grant her and the unborn baby that same mercy, whatever it is they did to you, if anything. Whatever it was, it clearly wasn't killing you, because you're still alive and murdering people.
So, If my 2 years old son was playing with my nuclear bomb and blow up a whole city and kill god knows how many then my 2 year old will get a life in prison?
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sad like all murder case, im willing to bet that this kid had a fucked up childhood in some way. trying him as an adult seems wrong given his young age, juvenile prison wont help him much either though so he is pretty much a lost case anyway you look at it.
regarding the gun laws in US its pretty simple to me. people in general are dumb. having access to lots of guns for stupid people is bad. more restrictions on the right to arm yourself = less guns for dumb people.
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On March 27 2009 10:51 Person514cs wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2009 09:34 Reason wrote:On March 27 2009 09:24 Night[Mare wrote:
That's so sad. I dont think the kid deserves life prision or death penalty. He's obviously mentally ill. Have some faith in humanity please.
Doesnt mean he doesnt deserves to be fucking punished badly. Why isn't this said about ALL murderers? What about serial killers? are they not mentally ill? How do you distinguish between who is mentally ill and needs help and who is mentally ill and should go to jail....???????????????????????????????????????????????????? On March 27 2009 07:55 baal wrote:On March 27 2009 06:55 Reason wrote:
So he's 11. So what?
Where do you draw the line ?
Wherever you draw it, 16, 15, 14, 13, 12, 11, eventually somebody right on the limit is going to be put into jail, and somebody 2 days before their birthday will get away with it.
There's no age difference between these two people other than a few days, yet one is completely liable and the other gets away with it. That is just stupid.
This story and the comments about it bother me because there's a lot of injustice and abuse world wide.
A lot of people have a lived a fucked up life and don't kill anyone for it, even their abuser, even though that's totally justified IMO. They get through it.
For those that don't, we don't allow this "fucked up life" to be a reason for letting people off with murdering or raping somebody. We still convict them and put them in jail.
How can you say because this boy is 11 it is ok to give him therapy and try to rehabilitate him when some guy in his early twenties who had a totally fucked up life who goes on to kill someone will be branded a killer and thrown into jail or executed with no one giving a shit about him?
So to all you people who want to be lenient on him, or suggesting not jail but juvenile or whatever....
Think about every person who had a hard life who murdered somebody and was put in jail or was executed.
Maybe they need therapy and imprisoning somebody for any crime is the most barbaric crime of all? I mean think of their pain!
Is this what you are suggesting?
If not, at what point, what specific date on the calender in anyone's life should we change our opinion from
"What a shame this child was abused, kid needs therapy, help him"...
to
"Throw him in jail."
Or in the case of America, [and some other countries? I'm not sure exactly]
"Commence the execution."
Edit: To the above post...
Possibly something to do with the fact that it wasn't in the early stages of life she was nine months pregnant which is virtually born, and murdering a new born baby is still murder, possibly the worst murder you can commit.
It's nothing to do with whether the mother wants it, and I'm fairly sure people don't "abort" a pregnancy after a certain time, you give birth and give it away if you don't want it. You are an idiot if you think a 11yo should be treated as a 20yo, that would mean you have the same choice making hability as a 11yo (actually you probably do). There is a fucking reason why you cant drink/smoke/etc when you are underage, because you are NOT an adult and you cannot be treated like one. Its fucked up when punishing a 11yo he is an adult, but while granting rights, he is not. Ok so first you say I'm an idiot if I think that an 11 year old has the same decision making ability as a 20 year old, then you go onto say actually they probably do. By your own logic you are actually probably an idiot. Secondly, indeed their is a reason why you can't drink some at a certain age. I'm not refuting that. The point is that it's fucking dumb that on the night before my 18th birthday its ILLEGAL for me to smoke, anyone caught selling me can get £5000 fine, maybe lose their job and possibly jail time or community service, but the next day its totally legit? Like what the fuck happened overnight that SUDDENLY makes me mature enough to smoke and drink and have sex? "because you are NOT an adult and you cannot be treated like one" NO SON, YOUR 17 YEARS 11 MONTHS AND 30 DAYS OLD. YOU ARE NOT AN ADULT AND CANNOT BE TREATED LIKE ONE. GOOD MORNING SON. IT'S YOUR 18TH BIRTHDAY. YOU ARE NOW AN ADULT!! Shit, wtf? Yesterday I wasn't an adult, and now I am! I don't feel any different... hmm... Do I need to continue with pointing out how fucking retarded that is? Silly thing here is in my country you can get married at 16. You can't drink champagne on your wedding night and you can't smoke a cigar. So you can make a decision, getting married, which is supposed to change the rest of your life, but you're not mature enough to smoke and drink? That's stupid. So take murder. What age you gonna set ? 18 ? You telling me people can kill whoever they want as long as they are 17 or younger? Bullshit. Ok. 16. So a 15 year old can commit murder and get away with it... bullshit. Ok. 14. So a 13 year old can get away with it...... Do I need to continue? What age is murder acceptable? NO age I say. Murder is not acceptable and most kids learn that before they've even reached primary school. This kid was old enough to be finishing primary if not starting high school... isn't that long enough to learn kids.... killing is bad m'kay? On March 27 2009 08:04 sigma_x wrote:On March 27 2009 06:55 Reason wrote:
So he's 11. So what?
Where do you draw the line ?
Wherever you draw it, 16, 15, 14, 13, 12, 11, eventually somebody right on the limit is going to be put into jail, and somebody 2 days before their birthday will get away with it.
There's no age difference between these two people other than a few days, yet one is completely liable and the other gets away with it. That is just stupid.
This story and the comments about it bother me because there's a lot of injustice and abuse world wide.
A lot of people have a lived a fucked up life and don't kill anyone for it, even their abuser, even though that's totally justified IMO. They get through it.
For those that don't, we don't allow this "fucked up life" to be a reason for letting people off with murdering or raping somebody. We still convict them and put them in jail.
How can you say because this boy is 11 it is ok to give him therapy and try to rehabilitate him when some guy in his early twenties who had a totally fucked up life who goes on to kill someone will be branded a killer and thrown into jail or executed with no one giving a shit about him?
So to all you people who want to be lenient on him, or suggesting not jail but juvenile or whatever....
Think about every person who had a hard life who murdered somebody and was put in jail or was executed.
Maybe they need therapy and imprisoning somebody for any crime is the most barbaric crime of all? I mean think of their pain!
Is this what you are suggesting?
If not, at what point, what specific date on the calender in anyone's life should we change our opinion from
"What a shame this child was abused, kid needs therapy, help him"...
to
"Throw him in jail."
Or in the case of America, [and some other countries? I'm not sure exactly]
"Commence the execution."
Edit: To the above post...
Possibly something to do with the fact that it wasn't in the early stages of life she was nine months pregnant which is virtually born, and murdering a new born baby is still murder, possibly the worst murder you can commit.
It's nothing to do with whether the mother wants it, and I'm fairly sure people don't "abort" a pregnancy after a certain time, you give birth and give it away if you don't want it. I don't know about US law, but in australia, there is a presumption that a child between the ages of 10 to 14 will not be charged with a crime. This presumption can be rebutted if there is evidence of awareness of the wrongful consequences of their action. What i mean by this, is that the slippery slide argument doesn't bear any weight as long as you respect the fact that cases which lie on the border line should be treated on their own merits. Edit: in reply to that post What I really want to get at is what I put earlier in this post... How do you distinguish between who is mentally ill and needs help and who is mentally ill and should go to jail....? But in answer to this... where do you draw the line that the slippery slide stems from? I mean really 10-14? Why did you give this age range.. what about kids 1-9 ? Is that SO OBVIOUS that it's not included, but ages 10-14 need covering by some law because there it becomes questionable? Say you drew the line at 14 then. Cases judged on merit. Well he is three years short of the line..but he blew her head off with a shotgun for christ's sake....killing her unborn child in the process. That's unforgivable. I think that's "merit" enough to be put in jail for life, and to be counting yourself lucky that you are allowed to live. You sure as hell didn't grant her and the unborn baby that same mercy, whatever it is they did to you, if anything. Whatever it was, it clearly wasn't killing you, because you're still alive and murdering people. So, If my 2 years old son was playing with my nuclear bomb and blow up a whole city and kill god knows how many then my 2 year old will get a life in prison?
Your post is full of idioticness to the fullest (watever the fuck that means)
Replying to someone in page #2 that said that the kid could have used a knife instead of a gun (related to the gunlawz etc)
I can tell you this and I am pretty sure a lot of people would agree (people that have shot a gun) that it is a lot easier to pull a trigger than to stab someone to death and I dont think I have to go into details why... you could picture it yourself...
and U.S laws are pretty retarded to some extend.. with the whole 18 (adult enough to have a gun, go to war, be treated as an adult etc but cant smoke a cig or drink?)
this kid ill or not should get punished to the fullest of the law because murder isnt OK at any age
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On March 27 2009 09:12 AtlaS wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On March 27 2009 07:41 CharlieMurphy wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2009 06:52 AtlaS wrote:On March 27 2009 00:09 Disregard wrote:"An 11-year-old boy could be tried as an adult in a US court and face a mandatory life sentence if found guilty of killing his father's pregnant fiancee, local media reported.
A judge in Lawrence County, western Pennsylvania ruled that the child, Jordan Brown, would not be tried as a minor, the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette reported.
Lawyers for the boy said they would file a motion to have the case moved to juvenile court, after obtaining more forensic evidence.
The paper reported that Brown sat silently with his hands and feet shackled during his preliminary hearing, before being returned to a juvenile detention center where his attorney said he was "thriving."
He is accused of last month shooting Kenzie Houk, 26, in the back of the head while she slept, killing her and her unborn child who died of oxygen deprivation. He faces two charges of criminal homicide.
Houk was nine months pregnant and had two daughters, age seven and four, who lived in the house with her, her fiance Chris Brown and his son, Jordan.The boy allegedly covered a shotgun with a blanket and shot Houk in head while she was asleep, before running out of the house to catch the school bus. Relatives said the boy was jealous of Houk and her children.He is scheduled for an arraignment on May 1."Kid mustve been very depressed and lonely to brutally murder them. Where did this kid learn how to do such a thing at that age? Hes like a natural, covering up the sound of the shotgun blast with a blanket? Gotta love television. http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=CNG.435ee54695f096e1c77c6fc27a19acd2.161&show_article=1 Just a random thought I just had while reading this. Why does he get 2 counts of homicide if abortion is considered legal in the states? Strange to think that an unborn baby is only considered a person if it's wanted by the mother. I'm not looking to start a giant flamewar between pro-life and pro-choice people, just looking for someone who has any idea behind the legal reasoning of this. EDIT: Bolded the wrong part Are you a moron? For 1 abortion is consented. Secondly, Most abortion is and must be done within the first trimester of pregnancy. Seriously, This is the dumbest question I've ever seen. Really? That's the dumbest question you've ever seen? You must hang out with Mensa Members 24/7 if that's the dumbest question you've ever seen. But I highly doubt that since you're almost 25 years old and you still smoke pot (based on your post in the Mix Music thread, which I do agree that most of those songs were rubbish.) Apparently, my question was so dumb that the United States Senate debated this issue for over 5 years before finally changing the law where a fetus is considered a victim (Before 2004, it used to be that a fetus would not be considered a person, even if the mother was murdered during the 9th month of pregnancy.) One of my poli sci friends just told me about it, it's called the Unborn Victims of Violence Act by the way. I admit that I didn't know about this since I was only 14 when it was passed and I couldn't care less about government/politics at that time but it appears that you didn't know about it either since I asked for LEGAL reasoning behind this, not your opinion. Apparently, these pro-choice groups are still trying to switch it back since it's a step towards reversing Roe v. Wade. The two laws to seem to clash quite a bit in their reasoning. Anyways, when the law was up for debate in the Senate, tons of pro-choice people opposed it since it stated exactly what I just said, how can both laws exist at the same time. I don't know how my question is retarded if so many people see my side of the argument and it was just debated in front of the Senate only 5 years ago.
Dude Abortion has nothing to fucking do with murder. That's why this is retarded. You're talking about a whole different topic.
Even if we were arguing what you are talking about it's still not 'just abortion' because the woman did not want to have the fetus/baby/cell whatever aborted. If you were gonna argue this it will still at least be something (and I'm gonna make up some shit right now) Forced abortion or some other unholy act.
And No I don't do any drugs besides drinking alchol every other weekend. If you read the 'High Thread', I recently took a few tokes after like a year of not ever taking a hit and even before that I haven't smoked regularly since in my early teens like I said in that post.
What are you trying to do anyways? Did you really just attack my musical tastes in an murder topic?
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? Musical tastes? I said I agreed with you on the fact that those mashups were junk. That's neither here nor there.
Clearly you're a well spoken and intelligent person so I take back the pot comment. It seems like my original question was oddly worded and that's why you understood it the way you did. I wasn't trying to compare murder with abortion and I'm guessing that's why you were taken aback by it.
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As someone whose family bought a gun (an SKS carbine) after a robbery, I think guns are a natural way of defending yourself. There's nothing wrong with having the capability or the technology; it's the intent that's the issue here. If the government went and outlawed weapons, then it's quite natural that only people who don't obey the law in the first place will have guns.
I for one, have a Mossberg pump at home, and while I hope I never have to use it, it makes me sleep more soundly at night knowing that it's only 2 feet away under my bed and I can fuck up anyone who tries to rob me.
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Bosnia-Herzegovina1437 Posts
On March 27 2009 00:36 Rice wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2009 00:35 Blunderbore wrote:
that's why starcraft > counterstrike. Cs forces kids to kill people, while starcraft encourages to fund supply depots to feed the hungry! what if you play terran vs terran
LMFAO
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damn kid shouldn't have gotten to the gun!
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Bosnia-Herzegovina1437 Posts
They should stick him in a maximum state pen and watch his ass hole turn from o to O
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On March 27 2009 09:34 Reason wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2009 09:24 Night[Mare wrote:
That's so sad. I dont think the kid deserves life prision or death penalty. He's obviously mentally ill. Have some faith in humanity please.
Doesnt mean he doesnt deserves to be fucking punished badly. Why isn't this said about ALL murderers? What about serial killers? are they not mentally ill? How do you distinguish between who is mentally ill and needs help and who is mentally ill and should go to jail....???????????????????????????????????????????????????? Show nested quote +On March 27 2009 07:55 baal wrote:On March 27 2009 06:55 Reason wrote:
So he's 11. So what?
Where do you draw the line ?
Wherever you draw it, 16, 15, 14, 13, 12, 11, eventually somebody right on the limit is going to be put into jail, and somebody 2 days before their birthday will get away with it.
There's no age difference between these two people other than a few days, yet one is completely liable and the other gets away with it. That is just stupid.
This story and the comments about it bother me because there's a lot of injustice and abuse world wide.
A lot of people have a lived a fucked up life and don't kill anyone for it, even their abuser, even though that's totally justified IMO. They get through it.
For those that don't, we don't allow this "fucked up life" to be a reason for letting people off with murdering or raping somebody. We still convict them and put them in jail.
How can you say because this boy is 11 it is ok to give him therapy and try to rehabilitate him when some guy in his early twenties who had a totally fucked up life who goes on to kill someone will be branded a killer and thrown into jail or executed with no one giving a shit about him?
So to all you people who want to be lenient on him, or suggesting not jail but juvenile or whatever....
Think about every person who had a hard life who murdered somebody and was put in jail or was executed.
Maybe they need therapy and imprisoning somebody for any crime is the most barbaric crime of all? I mean think of their pain!
Is this what you are suggesting?
If not, at what point, what specific date on the calender in anyone's life should we change our opinion from
"What a shame this child was abused, kid needs therapy, help him"...
to
"Throw him in jail."
Or in the case of America, [and some other countries? I'm not sure exactly]
"Commence the execution."
Edit: To the above post...
Possibly something to do with the fact that it wasn't in the early stages of life she was nine months pregnant which is virtually born, and murdering a new born baby is still murder, possibly the worst murder you can commit.
It's nothing to do with whether the mother wants it, and I'm fairly sure people don't "abort" a pregnancy after a certain time, you give birth and give it away if you don't want it. You are an idiot if you think a 11yo should be treated as a 20yo, that would mean you have the same choice making hability as a 11yo (actually you probably do). There is a fucking reason why you cant drink/smoke/etc when you are underage, because you are NOT an adult and you cannot be treated like one. Its fucked up when punishing a 11yo he is an adult, but while granting rights, he is not. Ok so first you say I'm an idiot if I think that an 11 year old has the same decision making ability as a 20 year old, then you go onto say actually they probably do. By your own logic you are actually probably an idiot. Secondly, indeed their is a reason why you can't drink some at a certain age. I'm not refuting that. The point is that it's fucking dumb that on the night before my 18th birthday its ILLEGAL for me to smoke, anyone caught selling me can get £5000 fine, maybe lose their job and possibly jail time or community service, but the next day its totally legit?
Like what the fuck happened overnight that SUDDENLY makes me mature enough to smoke and drink and have sex?
"because you are NOT an adult and you cannot be treated like one"
NO SON, YOUR 17 YEARS 11 MONTHS AND 30 DAYS OLD. YOU ARE NOT AN ADULT AND CANNOT BE TREATED LIKE ONE.
GOOD MORNING SON. IT'S YOUR 18TH BIRTHDAY. YOU ARE NOW AN ADULT!!
Shit, wtf? Yesterday I wasn't an adult, and now I am! I don't feel any different... hmm...
Do I need to continue with pointing out how fucking retarded that is?Silly thing here is in my country you can get married at 16. You can't drink champagne on your wedding night and you can't smoke a cigar. So you can make a decision, getting married, which is supposed to change the rest of your life, but you're not mature enough to smoke and drink? That's stupid. So take murder. What age you gonna set ? 18 ? You telling me people can kill whoever they want as long as they are 17 or younger? Bullshit. Ok. 16. So a 15 year old can commit murder and get away with it... bullshit. Ok. 14. So a 13 year old can get away with it...... Do I need to continue? What age is murder acceptable? NO age I say. Murder is not acceptable and most kids learn that before they've even reached primary school. This kid was old enough to be finishing primary if not starting high school... isn't that long enough to learn kids.... killing is bad m'kay? Show nested quote +On March 27 2009 08:04 sigma_x wrote:On March 27 2009 06:55 Reason wrote:
So he's 11. So what?
Where do you draw the line ?
Wherever you draw it, 16, 15, 14, 13, 12, 11, eventually somebody right on the limit is going to be put into jail, and somebody 2 days before their birthday will get away with it.
There's no age difference between these two people other than a few days, yet one is completely liable and the other gets away with it. That is just stupid.
This story and the comments about it bother me because there's a lot of injustice and abuse world wide.
A lot of people have a lived a fucked up life and don't kill anyone for it, even their abuser, even though that's totally justified IMO. They get through it.
For those that don't, we don't allow this "fucked up life" to be a reason for letting people off with murdering or raping somebody. We still convict them and put them in jail.
How can you say because this boy is 11 it is ok to give him therapy and try to rehabilitate him when some guy in his early twenties who had a totally fucked up life who goes on to kill someone will be branded a killer and thrown into jail or executed with no one giving a shit about him?
So to all you people who want to be lenient on him, or suggesting not jail but juvenile or whatever....
Think about every person who had a hard life who murdered somebody and was put in jail or was executed.
Maybe they need therapy and imprisoning somebody for any crime is the most barbaric crime of all? I mean think of their pain!
Is this what you are suggesting?
If not, at what point, what specific date on the calender in anyone's life should we change our opinion from
"What a shame this child was abused, kid needs therapy, help him"...
to
"Throw him in jail."
Or in the case of America, [and some other countries? I'm not sure exactly]
"Commence the execution."
Edit: To the above post...
Possibly something to do with the fact that it wasn't in the early stages of life she was nine months pregnant which is virtually born, and murdering a new born baby is still murder, possibly the worst murder you can commit.
It's nothing to do with whether the mother wants it, and I'm fairly sure people don't "abort" a pregnancy after a certain time, you give birth and give it away if you don't want it. I don't know about US law, but in australia, there is a presumption that a child between the ages of 10 to 14 will not be charged with a crime. This presumption can be rebutted if there is evidence of awareness of the wrongful consequences of their action. What i mean by this, is that the slippery slide argument doesn't bear any weight as long as you respect the fact that cases which lie on the border line should be treated on their own merits. Edit: in reply to that post What I really want to get at is what I put earlier in this post... How do you distinguish between who is mentally ill and needs help and who is mentally ill and should go to jail....? But in answer to this... where do you draw the line that the slippery slide stems from? I mean really 10-14? Why did you give this age range.. what about kids 1-9 ? Is that SO OBVIOUS that it's not included, but ages 10-14 need covering by some law because there it becomes questionable? Say you drew the line at 14 then. Cases judged on merit. Well he is three years short of the line..but he blew her head off with a shotgun for christ's sake....killing her unborn child in the process. That's unforgivable. I think that's "merit" enough to be put in jail for life, and to be counting yourself lucky that you are allowed to live. You sure as hell didn't grant her and the unborn baby that same mercy, whatever it is they did to you, if anything. Whatever it was, it clearly wasn't killing you, because you're still alive and murdering people.
Those ages are just to draw lines for legal reasons. OBVIOUSLY nobody changes just like that overnight, but you have to draw the line somewhere. there are some people who are more mature at age 15 than others at age 20. those numbers are pretty ridiculous and dont have real meaning but they are just there so the judges and lawyers can use them for argument
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On March 27 2009 12:51 29 fps wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2009 09:34 Reason wrote:On March 27 2009 09:24 Night[Mare wrote:
That's so sad. I dont think the kid deserves life prision or death penalty. He's obviously mentally ill. Have some faith in humanity please.
Doesnt mean he doesnt deserves to be fucking punished badly. Why isn't this said about ALL murderers? What about serial killers? are they not mentally ill? How do you distinguish between who is mentally ill and needs help and who is mentally ill and should go to jail....???????????????????????????????????????????????????? On March 27 2009 07:55 baal wrote:On March 27 2009 06:55 Reason wrote:
So he's 11. So what?
Where do you draw the line ?
Wherever you draw it, 16, 15, 14, 13, 12, 11, eventually somebody right on the limit is going to be put into jail, and somebody 2 days before their birthday will get away with it.
There's no age difference between these two people other than a few days, yet one is completely liable and the other gets away with it. That is just stupid.
This story and the comments about it bother me because there's a lot of injustice and abuse world wide.
A lot of people have a lived a fucked up life and don't kill anyone for it, even their abuser, even though that's totally justified IMO. They get through it.
For those that don't, we don't allow this "fucked up life" to be a reason for letting people off with murdering or raping somebody. We still convict them and put them in jail.
How can you say because this boy is 11 it is ok to give him therapy and try to rehabilitate him when some guy in his early twenties who had a totally fucked up life who goes on to kill someone will be branded a killer and thrown into jail or executed with no one giving a shit about him?
So to all you people who want to be lenient on him, or suggesting not jail but juvenile or whatever....
Think about every person who had a hard life who murdered somebody and was put in jail or was executed.
Maybe they need therapy and imprisoning somebody for any crime is the most barbaric crime of all? I mean think of their pain!
Is this what you are suggesting?
If not, at what point, what specific date on the calender in anyone's life should we change our opinion from
"What a shame this child was abused, kid needs therapy, help him"...
to
"Throw him in jail."
Or in the case of America, [and some other countries? I'm not sure exactly]
"Commence the execution."
Edit: To the above post...
Possibly something to do with the fact that it wasn't in the early stages of life she was nine months pregnant which is virtually born, and murdering a new born baby is still murder, possibly the worst murder you can commit.
It's nothing to do with whether the mother wants it, and I'm fairly sure people don't "abort" a pregnancy after a certain time, you give birth and give it away if you don't want it. You are an idiot if you think a 11yo should be treated as a 20yo, that would mean you have the same choice making hability as a 11yo (actually you probably do). There is a fucking reason why you cant drink/smoke/etc when you are underage, because you are NOT an adult and you cannot be treated like one. Its fucked up when punishing a 11yo he is an adult, but while granting rights, he is not. Ok so first you say I'm an idiot if I think that an 11 year old has the same decision making ability as a 20 year old, then you go onto say actually they probably do. By your own logic you are actually probably an idiot. Secondly, indeed their is a reason why you can't drink some at a certain age. I'm not refuting that. The point is that it's fucking dumb that on the night before my 18th birthday its ILLEGAL for me to smoke, anyone caught selling me can get £5000 fine, maybe lose their job and possibly jail time or community service, but the next day its totally legit?
Like what the fuck happened overnight that SUDDENLY makes me mature enough to smoke and drink and have sex?
"because you are NOT an adult and you cannot be treated like one"
NO SON, YOUR 17 YEARS 11 MONTHS AND 30 DAYS OLD. YOU ARE NOT AN ADULT AND CANNOT BE TREATED LIKE ONE.
GOOD MORNING SON. IT'S YOUR 18TH BIRTHDAY. YOU ARE NOW AN ADULT!!
Shit, wtf? Yesterday I wasn't an adult, and now I am! I don't feel any different... hmm...
Do I need to continue with pointing out how fucking retarded that is?Silly thing here is in my country you can get married at 16. You can't drink champagne on your wedding night and you can't smoke a cigar. So you can make a decision, getting married, which is supposed to change the rest of your life, but you're not mature enough to smoke and drink? That's stupid. So take murder. What age you gonna set ? 18 ? You telling me people can kill whoever they want as long as they are 17 or younger? Bullshit. Ok. 16. So a 15 year old can commit murder and get away with it... bullshit. Ok. 14. So a 13 year old can get away with it...... Do I need to continue? What age is murder acceptable? NO age I say. Murder is not acceptable and most kids learn that before they've even reached primary school. This kid was old enough to be finishing primary if not starting high school... isn't that long enough to learn kids.... killing is bad m'kay? On March 27 2009 08:04 sigma_x wrote:On March 27 2009 06:55 Reason wrote:
So he's 11. So what?
Where do you draw the line ?
Wherever you draw it, 16, 15, 14, 13, 12, 11, eventually somebody right on the limit is going to be put into jail, and somebody 2 days before their birthday will get away with it.
There's no age difference between these two people other than a few days, yet one is completely liable and the other gets away with it. That is just stupid.
This story and the comments about it bother me because there's a lot of injustice and abuse world wide.
A lot of people have a lived a fucked up life and don't kill anyone for it, even their abuser, even though that's totally justified IMO. They get through it.
For those that don't, we don't allow this "fucked up life" to be a reason for letting people off with murdering or raping somebody. We still convict them and put them in jail.
How can you say because this boy is 11 it is ok to give him therapy and try to rehabilitate him when some guy in his early twenties who had a totally fucked up life who goes on to kill someone will be branded a killer and thrown into jail or executed with no one giving a shit about him?
So to all you people who want to be lenient on him, or suggesting not jail but juvenile or whatever....
Think about every person who had a hard life who murdered somebody and was put in jail or was executed.
Maybe they need therapy and imprisoning somebody for any crime is the most barbaric crime of all? I mean think of their pain!
Is this what you are suggesting?
If not, at what point, what specific date on the calender in anyone's life should we change our opinion from
"What a shame this child was abused, kid needs therapy, help him"...
to
"Throw him in jail."
Or in the case of America, [and some other countries? I'm not sure exactly]
"Commence the execution."
Edit: To the above post...
Possibly something to do with the fact that it wasn't in the early stages of life she was nine months pregnant which is virtually born, and murdering a new born baby is still murder, possibly the worst murder you can commit.
It's nothing to do with whether the mother wants it, and I'm fairly sure people don't "abort" a pregnancy after a certain time, you give birth and give it away if you don't want it. I don't know about US law, but in australia, there is a presumption that a child between the ages of 10 to 14 will not be charged with a crime. This presumption can be rebutted if there is evidence of awareness of the wrongful consequences of their action. What i mean by this, is that the slippery slide argument doesn't bear any weight as long as you respect the fact that cases which lie on the border line should be treated on their own merits. Edit: in reply to that post What I really want to get at is what I put earlier in this post... How do you distinguish between who is mentally ill and needs help and who is mentally ill and should go to jail....? But in answer to this... where do you draw the line that the slippery slide stems from? I mean really 10-14? Why did you give this age range.. what about kids 1-9 ? Is that SO OBVIOUS that it's not included, but ages 10-14 need covering by some law because there it becomes questionable? Say you drew the line at 14 then. Cases judged on merit. Well he is three years short of the line..but he blew her head off with a shotgun for christ's sake....killing her unborn child in the process. That's unforgivable. I think that's "merit" enough to be put in jail for life, and to be counting yourself lucky that you are allowed to live. You sure as hell didn't grant her and the unborn baby that same mercy, whatever it is they did to you, if anything. Whatever it was, it clearly wasn't killing you, because you're still alive and murdering people. Those ages are just to draw lines for legal reasons. OBVIOUSLY nobody changes just like that overnight, but you have to draw the line somewhere. there are some people who are more mature at age 15 than others at age 20. those numbers are pretty ridiculous and dont have real meaning but they are just there so the judges and lawyers can use them for argument
Totally agree. It's all legal issues. The law needs some sort of abitrary line and it's easiest/most realistic to draw that line by using age.
By the way, awesome username
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On March 27 2009 02:00 Zoler wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2009 00:24 Ace wrote:
What the FUCK do the gun laws have to do with this? The thing is you hear about things like this happening every other month in USA, and almost never in any other countries. I'm not trying to flame, this is just how it is. Weapons are easier to get in USA for example, that's just something to blame of course but it is something to have in mind.
yeah because our media likes to show negative things. and here we are talking about it on teamliquid because guess what, people like to hear about negative things apparently! so don't watch or read about it. simple. and im not for turning a blind eye to things. but to me this thread serves no purpose here on teamliquid.
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Haven't read the thread so maybe this was already brought up but......how can a child be tried as an adult? I've never understood that.
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Baltimore, USA22250 Posts
Jesus, how did this clusterfuck get to 9 pages...
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EPT
