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On March 27 2009 04:16 Khaymus wrote:
What happens when a criminal / bad guy comes into your home and threatens your family with a gun? I don't know about you, but I would like to be able to defend family.
Banning guns isn't going to do anything...banning violence is what we should be going for.
I think the big difference here is where you're from, which is why so many Swedes are sceptical about gun-ownership. I mean the argument that you need a gun to defend your home against "bad guys" is completely invalid in Sweden because that never happens. I doubt that more than a few individuals in Sweden will ever find themselves in a situation where they would need a gun, let alone a situation where they would need to use it, because our criminal climate is not nearly as harsh. Of course robberies/murders/etc occurs but not even close to American levels, and I think this is true in most nordic countries (but not all of Europe).
I still think guns should be banned in every country of the world but I guess someone who has grown up in a though neighborhood in some American city could make a pretty good point against it, based on their personal experience.
On March 27 2009 03:48 Dave[9] wrote:
Sorry to let you guys know but it's, ya know, kind of in our Constitution with the 2nd Amendment.
I thought that amendment was about having guns to defend yourself against the federal government/external forces or whatever? I remember reading something about militias defending the freedom of the state or something.
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On March 27 2009 04:37 Makhno wrote:
I thought that amendment was about having guns to defend yourself against the federal government/external forces or whatever? I remember reading something about militias defending the freedom of the state or something.
I think it was originally put in there so that every citizen could be armed in case of a British invasion for the period after the war of independence. It was just kinda left in there even when it was no longer required.
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you guys from sweden and stuff, you realize the american media thrives on fear. reporters love to cover these stories so that is why you always hear it in the u.s. not to mention its a bigger country. freak stuff like this happens everywhere its just u hear about it the most in u.s. due to media
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Children murdering people does not occur often, it is a very very rare occurrence, I'm fairly certain it's less than twenty a year. The justice system has a problem dealing with this because it happens so little. As a crj student and studying juvenile justice this is a good article from someone who knows what they are talking about 11 yr old life sentence
Secondly growing up around a bunch of hicks in a small town most aren't mindless rednecks who love just to shoot shit with a gun (however shooting stuff like cans is pretty fun). Most I know hunt for fun and it's how they grew up and eat a lot of deer meat in season, or during dove season eat that as well fairly often. Other uses for guns besides that around here are for killing rattlesnakes and other things of that nature. Being pretty liberal but growing up in a small town I just don't see shooting deer or hunting as something done just to feel manly, people may have that perspective of it but I would say most actually doing it do not share those sentiments. It's just like going fishing or bow hunting to me. Also to point out, kind of an example of the culture in my home town and surrounding areas kids get their pictures in the local paper when they shoot their first buck (with it), pretty funny actually, though I can see people from other places being grossed out lol.
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United States12607 Posts
On March 27 2009 04:37 Makhno wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2009 03:48 Dave[9] wrote:
Sorry to let you guys know but it's, ya know, kind of in our Constitution with the 2nd Amendment. I thought that amendment was about having guns to defend yourself against the federal government/external forces or whatever? I remember reading something about militias defending the freedom of the state or something.
The second amendment guarantees the "right to bear arms", but it's unclear what that means (for example, how wide is the definition of 'arms': pocketknives or guns? Automatics? Bombs?). The second amendment is the subject of endless debate...its implications for gun control are not cut and dry.
All I have to say about this sad story is: what the hell did this kid's parents do to him? I can only imagine what kind of a dad his father is...I mean jesus. Take care of your children, people!!
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I think that God put us here on earth
the nice thing about savio is that he gets the crazy out right at the beginning so i'm never tricked into reading the rest of the novel he writes
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On March 27 2009 04:46 benjammin wrote:the nice thing about savio is that he gets the crazy out right at the beginning so i'm never tricked into reading the rest of the novel he writes
lol, i was reading also just this first few words and then thought:
"uhhh, religious moron" and skipped it..
and yes:
The sad things about this story are
1: What made this kid do this?
2: Why would you put an 11 year old to a life sentence? This kid obviously needs therapie.
3: Why can he just grab fucking pump gun?
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This wouldn't have happened if she had her gun by her side.
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On March 27 2009 04:44 JWD wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2009 04:37 Makhno wrote:On March 27 2009 03:48 Dave[9] wrote:
Sorry to let you guys know but it's, ya know, kind of in our Constitution with the 2nd Amendment. I thought that amendment was about having guns to defend yourself against the federal government/external forces or whatever? I remember reading something about militias defending the freedom of the state or something. The second amendment guarantees the "right to bear arms", but it's unclear what that means (for example, how wide is the definition of 'arms': pocketknives or guns? Automatics? Bombs?). The second amendment is the subject of endless debate...its implications for gun control are not cut and dry. All I have to say about this sad story is: what the hell did this kid's parents do to him? I can only imagine what kind of a dad his father is...I mean jesus. Take care of your children, people!!
Yeah, I read a bit about on Wikipedia and it seems to have a number of causes. It's probably about defending your state against invaders though, because the way the second amendment is written and the fact that it seems to stem from earlier laws, probably English. What's strange is that in Britain the laws contained some sentences refering to personal defence but in America that seems to have been taken up on state level (in the different state constitutions), but only in about 2/3 states that allow guns.
Wow reading about this really gives you an insight on how old these laws actually are, I mean the background of the second amendment stretches back to 13-century Britain. It does'nt really have an impact on this debate but it's a really fascinating piece of history.
And you're totally right, wtf has the parents been up to?
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On March 27 2009 05:04 Hawk wrote:
This wouldn't have happened if she had her gun by her side.
zing
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On March 27 2009 00:24 Ace wrote:
What the FUCK do the gun laws have to do with this?
No guns = wouldn't happen/wouldn't grow up in as much of a gun atmosphere environment.
Unless you're telling me that an 11 year-old would be able to obtain a smuggled gun or something from a gang.
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can any idiot who says all the time that the boy could've just grabbed a knife and stabbed her to death link me to such happenings? strangly i dont remember even 1 happening of a kid murdering someone with a knife. what the fuck you think? it is easy to kill someone with a knife? it takes fucking much, we arent as easy to kill.
only cowards need guns.
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On March 27 2009 04:18 Gray[FH wrote:
O_O
the only funny part was the article says "The boy allegedly covered a shotgun with a blanket and shot Houk in head while she was asleep, before running out of the house to catch the school bus"
Yeah man, that's fucking hilarious...
Anyway, I don't think I've read so much stupidity on a single TL thread ever. Starting with the first reply, and then just about every other reply following. You can definitely tell who is and who isn't mature just by reading the posts.
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Guns are stupid and so are our laws about them, but they are never going to change because most people don't care really about these instances unless it personally happens to them. That and the Pro Gun people are very loud about defending their rights and will basically just drown you out. Also Gun companies have the money. Personally, only one person in my family has guns, and that is my grandfather who got his from older relatives when he was younger (Shotgun + .22 pistol and rifle) They are very old weapons and are never used and are kept where no kid could get to them (but then again my family is pretty religious with 3 Lutheran pastors in it and most of my family live in better neighborhoods so they do not experience crime 1st hand so I cannot speak for those who live in high crime areas where fear would prolly have people buy guns. Also I think two of the guns are disassembled in some way. But anyways I never had a cause for a gun, never had a break in or anything, but I know people that have. My friend had ppl breaking into his house while home, what did he do? He ran 2 houses down to the cop who lived there and he came with his police dog--> GG criminals. People who break 98% of the time are there to make money and would rather have you gone then anything else, Guns just up the ante to losing your stuff to life or death, People say "well LOL IF PEOPLE DON'T HAVE GUNS THE CRIMINALS WILL AND WE NEED TO DEFEND OURSELVES" Really? Because gang members ALWAYS like to shoot random people right? How many drive bys were prevented because some random guy who got caught in the middle pulled out his gun? Most criminals people encounter want your stuff or money so your not protecting yourself just your stuff.
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On March 27 2009 05:05 Makhno wrote:
What's strange is that in Britain the laws contained some sentences refering to personal defence but in America that seems to have been taken up on state level (in the different state constitutions), but only in about 2/3 states that allow guns.
What is the purpose of those three words? All states "allow" guns because they must according to the 14th amendment.
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On March 27 2009 00:30 Rice wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2009 00:24 Ace wrote:
What the FUCK do the gun laws have to do with this? the same thing marilyn manson had to do with columbine.......nothing, just a scapegoat
Other than that fact that if shotguns were illegal the father probably wouldn't have owned one. Of course now you could argue he would've then taken a kitchen knife.
But:
"Two thirds of all 1992 US murders were accomplished with firearms. Handguns were used in about half of all murders. Sharp instruments were used in 17% of murders and blunt instruments in about 6%."
http://www.benbest.com/lifeext/murder.html#usa
Surely there are more "sharp instruments" in the states than firearms. Some psychologists argue that it's "harder" (for your conscience) to stab someone to death than to shoot them, because it's more personal. (Apparently it's even harder to bludgeon someone to death.)
But access to a firearm was unlikely to have been the only cause for the death. It's not like he was playing and it was an accident, sadly.
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On March 27 2009 04:22 Fen wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2009 04:16 Khaymus wrote:
What happens when a criminal / bad guy comes into your home and threatens your family with a gun? I don't know about you, but I would like to be able to defend family.
Banning guns isn't going to do anything...banning violence is what we should be going for. You give the criminal what he wants If you pull a gun, someone is much more likely to get shot. Most likely you because the criminal has the gun already trained on you. Alsoif you keep a gun in a ready to be fired state like you would have to in that situation, then the chances of a gun accident being your cause of death is a hell of a lot more likely than a criminal coming into your house and shooting you.
Ding ding ding. The "defend yourself" argument is so tired.
And no, criminals don't come into your house very often in the USA either.
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guns are just like drugs! if you ban them, the bad people will still get them!
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On March 27 2009 04:37 Makhno wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2009 04:16 Khaymus wrote:
What happens when a criminal / bad guy comes into your home and threatens your family with a gun? I don't know about you, but I would like to be able to defend family.
Banning guns isn't going to do anything...banning violence is what we should be going for. I think the big difference here is where you're from, which is why so many Swedes are sceptical about gun-ownership. I mean the argument that you need a gun to defend your home against "bad guys" is completely invalid in Sweden because that never happens. I doubt that more than a few individuals in Sweden will ever find themselves in a situation where they would need a gun, let alone a situation where they would need to use it, because our criminal climate is not nearly as harsh. Of course robberies/murders/etc occurs but not even close to American levels, and I think this is true in most nordic countries (but not all of Europe). I still think guns should be banned in every country of the world but I guess someone who has grown up in a though neighborhood in some American city could make a pretty good point against it, based on their personal experience. Show nested quote +On March 27 2009 03:48 Dave[9] wrote:
Sorry to let you guys know but it's, ya know, kind of in our Constitution with the 2nd Amendment. I thought that amendment was about having guns to defend yourself against the federal government/external forces or whatever? I remember reading something about militias defending the freedom of the state or something.
Ehh to be honest if i remember correctly the 2nd amendment was put there in order for the civilians to be prepared for a possible invasion from the british, or whever the enemy might be. It was put there so that every civilian had the right to defend themselves, and their homeland. While people tend to buy them for other purposes, the amendments purpose is, yes, mainly in purpose to defend themselves.
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EPT
