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nAi.PrOtOsS
Canada784 Posts
On January 04 2009 14:50 Dr.Dragoon wrote: I bet I could beat you if you couldn't go above 15 apm. Well maybe.... I could just 4 pool as zerg or scv rush as terran, but as protoss I would be screwed. But only noobs who don't know where your miners go at start have such low apm | ||
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YPang
United States4024 Posts
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Hamster1800
United States175 Posts
I struggle against D level zergs. To me, this is a sign that zerg is actually harder, and the good players are shoved down to the D ranks. but everyone also knows that ZvP is the easy zerg matchup, so I'm going to ignore this. Yes, storm is easy to use, but the timing and guesswork in PvZ make it somewhat tricky in the strategy section. Also, do pure hydra breaks really use more micro than defending against them? PvT is the interesting case. It is relatively easy at D levels because either the terran doesn't know how to macro, or doesn't know how to push. And to be honest, if you have an observer outside their choke, 1a2a3a really does work if you do it when they push out. I am betting that TvP becomes insanely easy for the terran for a while (probably at least to D+) once he learns to push. Plus the fact that the most commonly played map on iccup is python, and although I don't know how applicable it is to D level play, the stats ARE 60% against protoss in both matchups. | ||
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Perguvious
United States1783 Posts
Also, in some cases, a C-/C protoss may find himself in an awkward position on iCCup. D+ is almost too easy, yet above that is too hard. Why? It's because they THINK they've got all the protoss mechanics down, they THINK because they have high APM, they hotkey their units, they can type "ww" like a korean. Truth is, there's still so much protoss needs to perfect before they really "master" the protoss race. Because terran and zerg are so hard to begin with, it's harder for them to get up into higher rankings on iCCup. Therefore, because of that, if they indeed ARE in the higher rankings, they must be pretty darn good. Protoss, on the other hand, can face 12-pool and FE tvp up 1/3 of the ladder. That's pretty much when- Eh, I gotta go xD | ||
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village_idiot
2436 Posts
Reaver, DT, High Templar are all excellent at harassing and can reduce a well-saturated expo into a worker graveyard in a matter of seconds. On the other hand Protoss is a very harass proof race against Zerg, and somewhat harass proof against Terran. | ||
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MaTaAeRuKaNa
United States95 Posts
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Wala.Revolution
7582 Posts
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HeavOnEarth
United States7087 Posts
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YPang
United States4024 Posts
On January 04 2009 16:05 MaTaAeRuKaNa wrote: When a Toss reaver drops a Terran, who's doing more work rofll With protoss an army can win with just 1a2a3a4a, with zerg the army needs at least a "u" if lurkers are in it, obv if the zerg is gosu enough to last long enough against the EZ toss to get ultralisks/lings, they deserve the easy 1a2a3a4a too as a reward. Terran can never 1a2a3a, they have absolutely no chance of winning any battles that way, they have to siege, lay mines, make sure their formation is correct, pay attention of where enemy units are, and constantly use siege tanks to targer goons, and pulling vultures back so they don't get infront and get wasted by goon fire. At the same time they have to also macro;; And for TvZ, terran has to use scan to fight vs lurkers, pay close attentino to vessels, dodge lurker spines, micro dropshpis for diversion attacks, rarely does a terran ever win by only attacking with his main force. They also have to siege tanks, pay attention of enemy's position for flanks, and at the same time macro the quick building marines. what protoss got? cannon for expos, 1a2a3a4T t for storm. | ||
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HeavOnEarth
United States7087 Posts
well actually a LOT LOL *just noticed poll* | ||
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Wala.Revolution
7582 Posts
On January 04 2009 16:16 YPang wrote: rofll With protoss an army can win with just 1a2a3a4a, with zerg the army needs at least a "u" if lurkers are in it, obv if the zerg is gosu enough to last long enough against the EZ toss to get ultralisks/lings, they deserve the easy 1a2a3a4a too as a reward. Terran can never 1a2a3a, they have absolutely no chance of winning any battles that way, they have to siege, lay mines, make sure their formation is correct, pay attention of where enemy units are, and constantly use siege tanks to targer goons, and pulling vultures back so they don't get infront and get wasted by goon fire. At the same time they have to also macro;; And for TvZ, terran has to use scan to fight vs lurkers, pay close attentino to vessels, dodge lurker spines, micro dropshpis for diversion attacks, rarely does a terran ever win by only attacking with his main force. They also have to siege tanks, pay attention of enemy's position for flanks, and at the same time macro the quick building marines. what protoss got? cannon for expos, 1a2a3a4T t for storm. I still can't believe people say toss is just 1a2a3a4a... What do you do with zealots against mines? Do you clump them? Do you have goons in a line so splash owns every goon there is? You know that thing called storm has to be PLACED as well right? Your arguments fall apart because for every advantage there is, a disadvantage comes along with it, which makes starcraft balanced. For example, In TvZ, with the proper formation, micro can be minimalized. I don't know how many zergs actually target marines, but sending two periphery rines towards the zerg peripheries will usually give you enough time to either kill lurkers or retreat. While zerg unburrows and burrows lurks, terran macros. Zerg, on the other hand can macro in one swift move either by grouping hatches or hotkeying potentially up to 15 production buildings at once. Pay close attention to vessels = mine sweeping with goons. Not exactly equivalent, but still takes effort for searching vults/mines (scanning for ultras and defilers) and looking for scourge (tanks) and sending them. This thread is retarded. Yes protoss is easier in lower levels due to their early- to mid- game versatility of the units, but as skill level increases, they all demand similar amount of effort. | ||
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nAi.PrOtOsS
Canada784 Posts
And with terran I just did 2fact fast push too d+ so clearly they are a race that requires almost no skill. I am c+ Protoss and with less then 200games of Terran and or Zerg I can achieve low ranks on iccup. Ridiculous how easy Zerg and Terran are. | ||
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YPang
United States4024 Posts
btw: despite how much i complain i have tried numerous times to switch to toss but failed and always came back to terran, i feel more comfortable handling a group of rines/medics or tanks/vults in comparision with goons/zeals. Plus toss uses goons/zeals every MU, it gets so boring... i can't play more than 1 20min PvZ's in a day, i've tried.. T_T; their simplistic yet strong units just don't appeal to me. | ||
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IdrA
United States11541 Posts
On January 04 2009 14:38 nAi.PrOtOsS wrote: Everyone saying "protoss is easy, and terran is hard" is a joke. Please try to play PvT around B- level it is so fucking hard. its hard for you because you're bad if i play jaedong im gonna find it really hard does that mean z>t? | ||
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rushz0rz
Canada5300 Posts
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ahole-surprise
United States813 Posts
On January 04 2009 16:58 IdrA wrote: its hard for you because you're bad if i play jaedong im gonna find it really hard does that mean z>t? gg | ||
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fusionsdf
Canada15390 Posts
On January 04 2009 16:05 MaTaAeRuKaNa wrote: When a Toss reaver drops a Terran, who's doing more work the terran On January 04 2009 16:29 Wala.Revolution wrote: I still can't believe people say toss is just 1a2a3a4a... What do you do with zealots against mines? Do you clump them? Do you have goons in a line so splash owns every goon there is? You know that thing called storm has to be PLACED as well right? sorry, didnt know the move command was so much more complex than attack move | ||
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Seraphim
United States4467 Posts
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nAi.PrOtOsS
Canada784 Posts
On January 04 2009 16:58 IdrA wrote: its hard for you because you're bad if i play jaedong im gonna find it really hard does that mean z>t? No it just means your bad similiarly if Protoss is "easy" on low levels does that not mean the player is just better then the oppnent? | ||
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clazziquai
6685 Posts
On January 04 2009 15:37 Perguvious wrote: I think (and this is my opinion, and noone cares about THAT xD) that protoss is the easiest for a beginner to learn. It is true that protoss CAN hotkey all their units in one group, but it just isn't that efficient. Hotkeying zealots in one group and dragoons in another can be the difference in a pvt battle. Also, in some cases, a C-/C protoss may find himself in an awkward position on iCCup. D+ is almost too easy, yet above that is too hard. Why? It's because they THINK they've got all the protoss mechanics down, they THINK because they have high APM, they hotkey their units, they can type "ww" like a korean. Truth is, there's still so much protoss needs to perfect before they really "master" the protoss race. Because terran and zerg are so hard to begin with, it's harder for them to get up into higher rankings on iCCup. Therefore, because of that, if they indeed ARE in the higher rankings, they must be pretty darn good. Protoss, on the other hand, can face 12-pool and FE tvp up 1/3 of the ladder. That's pretty much when- Eh, I gotta go xD lol whatup it's me "Loptomist" the terran who stopped you from getting C- earlier today. taht was a good game though =) | ||
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