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On January 04 2009 21:36 Final_Judicator wrote:
It's weird - after years of Starcraft without fundamental changes in the actual game, all of a sudden, Protoss is looked upon as "easy" and "imbalanced".
This can imply only one thing: some people are seizing the opportunity (a time of Protoss-domination in pro gaming Starcraft) to whine and bitch about the race and thus, the game.
The sad part about this is the fact that by doing so, these people dishonor the beautiful game that Starcraft is.
Shame on you.
Regards,
Judicator
Its not imbalanced, in the history of pro gaming it is easily the weakest race. It's just simple to control with a higher degree of perfection.
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Yes Terran is the hardest, you have to macro and micro perfectly in order to use the race to its full potential. Tornado Style was the one closest to perfectly using Terran.
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On January 04 2009 21:36 Final_Judicator wrote:
It's weird - after years of Starcraft without fundamental changes in the actual game, all of a sudden, Protoss is looked upon as "easy" and "imbalanced".
This can imply only one thing: some people are seizing the opportunity (a time of Protoss-domination in pro gaming Starcraft) to whine and bitch about the race and thus, the game.
The sad part about this is the fact that by doing so, these people dishonor the beautiful game that Starcraft is.
Shame on you.
Regards,
Judicator
Well, the # of years don't mean THAT much in this regard.
Due to constantly changing maps and increasing skill levels, only since a short amount of time (maybe 1.5 years) we have this new situation in which Protoss suddenly dominates. It's still rather new that progamers play with 400-500 APM... this kind of speed didn't exist back in 2004.
If SC had been released in like 2005 or so, we probably would have reached this point in 2-3 instead of 10 years.
Maps also always changed... you absolutely can't compare SC from 1998 with SC from 2004 with SC from now. SC has approximately changed 3 times, and the maps play a huge role in this (from rather casual gaming (~1998-2000) to micro-based progaming (Boxer/Yellow/Garimto era) to macro-based progaming (Oov era) to "perfection" (Savior era and later)) - and after this third time, where we have players training for 10h/day playing at insane speeds with insane multitasking and with completely perfect build orders, Protoss suddenly starts to dominate.
It's not impossible that there is a slight balance problem which favors Protoss, and that this balance problem has only recently been discovered because earlier players simply weren't good enough yet.
The map makers better have something planned for 2009 to nerf Protoss, or else SC will go down the drain faster than one would expect. If Protoss continues to dominate we'll see even more PvPs this year. It'll be incredibly boring.
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Like many people have said before it's the mapmakers that balanced Starcraft not Blizzard.
They just need to stop making maps so Protoss favoring.
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Anyone ever considered the _fact_ Protoss is the race requiring most strategy and gamesense? If I would argue in the way all the "1a2a3a blabla" whiners do, I'd say Terran is the easiest race followed by Zerg. When do you see other than Protoss adapt to their opponnents play? Or should I say HAVE to adapt?
I would never say that but with the bunch of cryfags in this thread you just have to face what you're actually trying to imply. Arguing same way again it would be, "Terran sits base, macroes, maybe you see some proxyfac gayness in some games" or "Zerg doing stupid 2 hatch muta lameness every game, greeding for 3rd gas to get imbalisks". Sounds retarded? Now imagine thats the way you sound.
€: Oh and if so Protoss uses the most perfect builds I guess the other races should do that too instead of crying like little girls. There's no manliness in Zerg or Terran players?
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On January 04 2009 07:29 FREEloss_ca wrote:
I think it all varies at different levels of play.
At D level Terran is the hardest to play, protoss is the easiest, zerg is just in the middle. At this level you can get away with having sub-par micro and macro as a Protoss because the units are stronger and easier to control, but something you can't as a zerg or terran because zerg units are so squishy and Terran units take more mechanics to control.
Strategically at low levels I think toss is harder to play. Obviously it is physically easier and you can do very well with APM just over 100 whereas for a similar level in T or Z you'd be looking at 150+ APM. But for Terran they are so solid in defense with mines, siege tanks, bunkers, turrets, etc. (or lurker/sunk defense), which frees up a lot of thought as a new player. When you are relatively new and don't know how to break contains or stop pushes it can be very hard to play against even poor T/Z players. Toss also has to mix up builds a lot more (apart from maps were 10/15 gate is strong xD) and scout a lot which can be hard for lower tier players.
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IMO Protoss is easiest and Terran is hardest. I'm a Protoss player btw and I had recently switched to Terran and back to Protoss. Terran was definitely more challenging but that wasn't the reason I went back. I found PvZ a lot more fun that TvZ in many ways.
Anyways as many people have said, Protoss is the easiest because of easy macro/easy micro. This gives Protoss players somewhat of an advantage in lower levels but this advantage is nullified in higher levels cuz everyone should have good mechanics by then (unless they are cheesy players). The case can be made that Protoss requires a lot of game sense but so do Zerg and Terran. And besides, who has a lot of game sense at lower levels -_-
Terran I believe is the hardest with Zerg not too far behind. Terran armies require a LOT of babysitting. Basically the only Terran units that can be a-moved only are Goliaths and Valks. Zergs have easier micro than Terran I feel but tougher macro due to larvae management. Therefore I believe Terran is slightly tougher than Zerg overall but Protoss is definitely the easiest mechanics-wise.
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Have any pros qualified this statement that protoss is the easiest? I know that we'll probably still argue even if some pros say it, but has it actually been said?
I also believe that protoss is easiest.
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Simply try to reach D+ on ICC with each race, then come back and answer your own question.
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lawl this is like terrans saying 'oh look 6 dragons.. p imbal.. oh 1a2a3a p is easiest'..
ya how much does it cost to get vultures?? 75?? WOW LESS THAN ZEAL!!
and how much is a mine upgrade?? WHAT?!?!? LESS THAN A ZEAL LEGUP!?!?!?
so who wins with good micro vulture vs zeal?? !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ZOMG!!!!
on top of this, whats this?? siegemode with longest attack range that cancels all defence towers and bunker + repair thats almost beyond imbal that its not funny???
and don't give me this 'low level, high level' nonsense cause as far as i know, we've had 3 terran bonjwas, and 1 zrg bonjwa in this game who have all been dominating at their times to the point that made them look unbeatable..
wait was that 3 terrans and 1 zerg?? uhmmmmmmmmmm so wheres protoss??
until bisu reigned to fame, protoss was just a race to be toyed around by zerg and good showbiz to make terrans look almighty and now, finally, they get some spotlights and all of sudden tosses are imbal..
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On January 04 2009 22:48 mIsUZu wrote:
lawl this is like terrans saying 'oh look 6 dragons.. p imbal.. oh 1a2a3a p is easiest'..
ya how much does it cost to get vultures?? 75?? WOW LESS THAN ZEAL!!
and how much is a mine upgrade?? WHAT?!?!? LESS THAN A ZEAL LEGUP!?!?!?
so who wins with good micro vulture vs zeal?? !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ZOMG!!!!
on top of this, whats this?? siegemode with longest attack range that cancels all defence towers and bunker + repair thats almost beyond imbal that its not funny???
and don't give me this 'low level, high level' nonsense cause as far as i know, we've had 3 terran bonjwas, and 1 zrg bonjwa in this game who have all been dominating at their times to the point that made them look unbeatable..
wait was that 3 terrans and 1 zerg?? uhmmmmmmmmmm so wheres protoss??
until bisu reigned to fame, protoss was just a race to be toyed around by zerg and good showbiz to make terrans look almighty and now, finally, they get some spotlights and all of sudden tosses are imbal..
listen to this wise man
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On January 04 2009 22:48 mIsUZu wrote:
lawl this is like terrans saying 'oh look 6 dragons.. p imbal.. oh 1a2a3a p is easiest'..
ya how much does it cost to get vultures?? 75?? WOW LESS THAN ZEAL!!
and how much is a mine upgrade?? WHAT?!?!? LESS THAN A ZEAL LEGUP!?!?!?
so who wins with good micro vulture vs zeal?? !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ZOMG!!!!
on top of this, whats this?? siegemode with longest attack range that cancels all defence towers and bunker + repair thats almost beyond imbal that its not funny???
and don't give me this 'low level, high level' nonsense cause as far as i know, we've had 3 terran bonjwas, and 1 zrg bonjwa in this game who have all been dominating at their times to the point that made them look unbeatable..
wait was that 3 terrans and 1 zerg?? uhmmmmmmmmmm so wheres protoss??
until bisu reigned to fame, protoss was just a race to be toyed around by zerg and good showbiz to make terrans look almighty and now, finally, they get some spotlights and all of sudden tosses are imbal..
This is the protoss is easy thread, not the protoss is powerful thread. You have what most people are saying about when it is easy (which is at low levels) confused with high level. You talk about siege tanks which require sieging and vultures which require mining, both require more micro than attack with dragoons/zealots and if you don't do them well you will lose to a simple push. Hence, it is easier to use. Once both players are very skilled in the game it becomes very hard in fact to stop a terran push, because it requires and benefits more from micro.
And to gg_hertz Idra has said protoss is the easiest at low levels serveral times, not sure about anybody else.
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648 Posts
I think it has also alot to do with map composition, the fact that on most of the newer maps protoss cannons can control droppoints and get spammed so much that id discourages drops. and their economy just skyrockets. Also the pylon block is very very powerfull.
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Lol some time ago everyone would have said Protoss is the HARDEST race to play while zerg is the easiest race to play. It depends on the korean progamer results what the people are thinking.
Generally to say: Protoss is good for beginners. Very easy to learn cause its similar to a lot of other races in other RTS games. But Protoss on the pro level is as hard as terran and zerg because you have to be creative and need excellent macro and micro to compete.
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On January 04 2009 22:14 [DUF]MethodMan wrote:
Anyone ever considered the _fact_ Protoss is the race requiring most strategy and gamesense? If I would argue in the way all the "1a2a3a blabla" whiners do, I'd say Terran is the easiest race followed by Zerg. When do you see other than Protoss adapt to their opponnents play? Or should I say HAVE to adapt?
I would never say that but with the bunch of cryfags in this thread you just have to face what you're actually trying to imply. Arguing same way again it would be, "Terran sits base, macroes, maybe you see some proxyfac gayness in some games" or "Zerg doing stupid 2 hatch muta lameness every game, greeding for 3rd gas to get imbalisks". Sounds retarded? Now imagine thats the way you sound.
€: Oh and if so Protoss uses the most perfect builds I guess the other races should do that too instead of crying like little girls. There's no manliness in Zerg or Terran players?
oh god i hope your kidding about only toss has to adapt.
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The reason I don't play Protoss is because of how easy it is to learn and play it compared to other races. However, at the progamer level, I think Protoss is as difficult to master as the other races.
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Protoss has easier mechanics, most people are reffering to lower levels methodman/misuzu, they aren't crying and ranting about there race because they play it, even protoss players in this thread have said it's easier, but it doesn't mean they don't play it (they like the lore, which i do, or they enjoy the matchups) and either way as they get better, it get's harder, but they understand that it's a slightly easier start for protoss.. and what the fuck? protoss only one who has to adapt? Your mechanics are easier so that means your game sense is instantly harder? It's the same as zerg or terran, bar pvz, which takes alot.
Some people can't accept the fact that protoss is the easiest to learn, and people are saying that as in: 2 equal players play eachother, at lower levels, protoss would win 75% of time, no arguing that.
However at higher levels, i honestly think they have been the hardest and still are, but right now the protoss bar at the progaming level has risen, and zerg or terran aren't out of tricks yet.
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Glad to have the same opinion as the mass, at once.
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psi storm.
can i click 1 ability to kill an army pls
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Why 11% of the people voted zerg and terran?
Biased okay dont care, but its a fact protoss is just alot easyer to play in FOREIGNER level.
Mb top A/A+ iccup level its different but I dont think thats what this poll is about.
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EPT
