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Why is Protoss easy? - Page 18

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LuckyFool
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
United States9015 Posts
January 06 2009 04:36 GMT
#341
The protoss domination we're seeing today was nothing compared to the 03/04 Boxer or the late04/05 oov. Or even Flash last year.

Doesn't even really compare to the domination we saw from Savior in 06.
koreasilver
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
9109 Posts
January 06 2009 04:38 GMT
#342
Well to be fair, Savior's domination was just Savior dominating, not the Zerg race as a whole. Savior thrived in the Zerg graveyards.
CFDragon
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
United States304 Posts
January 06 2009 04:39 GMT
#343
I agree a lot of Tasteless here. Protoss, from my experience, seems to require less APM than other races, but that doesn't make them easier. Sure, APM's a factor, but it's definitely not the only one.
koreasilver
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
9109 Posts
January 06 2009 04:40 GMT
#344
lol, I love my new best buddy from TL.net.

From: ZeKk
Subject: ..
Date: 1/6/09 13:30
Ur jumping the conclusion and twisting my word. Clueless? A noob dosen't need to be clueless.

Everybody know's it takes more skill to play T than P on a low level. Im sure u know that. I just think it's wrong you have to be THAT good to play on an even level! That's my point. I overexatrated somewhat sure. And u probably know the theory better.
Why are u being so arrogant? u think ur smart with ur fancy word? Striving for attention on the internet when mom dosen't give u at home? Or what is it. U can tell me, honest!

He sounds kinda young.
LuckyFool
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
United States9015 Posts
January 06 2009 04:46 GMT
#345
Hmm possibly,

but publicly posting PM's is just as childish in my opinion.
daz
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
Canada643 Posts
January 06 2009 04:47 GMT
#346
On January 06 2009 12:46 fusionsdf wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 06 2009 12:26 daz wrote:
On January 06 2009 02:35 petzergling wrote:
On January 05 2009 13:05 daz wrote:
[
a few points that I wanna throw about this post that was clearly inspired by nerdrage

1. what the fuck is so imba about DT rush? if you dont scout it and you dont prepare for it you will die, just like if i dont scout your 2fac and dont prepare for it i will also die.

2. So wait what your saying here is dt rushing is imba so its gay, but its ok for zerg to cheese?
Even if it is that imbalanced, suck it up princess, its not nearly as imbalanced as zvp used to be for 8 years, payback is a bitch huh?

3. In 70-80 games this season and around the same last season and a few seasons ago this has yet to happen to me.

4. if you got past D+ maybe you wouldnt get cheesed so much. But you probably never will.


1. DTs are the most overpowered unit in the game, they do more damage then battlecruisers and are permanently cloaked. If I could build permanently cloaked battlecruisers instead of wraiths It would be totally overpowered. If you dont scout it (impossible because protoss just blocks ramp with 1 goon and you always scout them last on python) and you prepare for it they never actually do dts, and its much more difficult for a learning player to use proper ebay timing based off of scouting information then it is for toss to go citadel->templar archives (add robo bay if u pylon block urself or forget ur 1 dragoon). The only reason you die if you dont scout 2 fact is because ur micro is bad. Terran siege tank/mine micro is so much more unforgiving then goon micro dont even pretend like 2 facting is cheese.

2. Yeah because protoss units are imbalanced and it is impossible for zerg to win without cheese. 2 years ago I'm sure u were playing fastest so cry about imbalance more scrub

3. Happens to me all the time. Do you never see games that say 1v1 [rank] NO P, because thats exactly what it is.

4. Yeah I fuck around on iccup a shitton, and if you knew some of the builds that I do (nuke rush, battlecruiser rush, SK terran vrs protoss(lol emp), trying to win games with only manner buildings/probes, ling slowdrop, proxy hatchery, proxy barracks fake FD, vulture mine + lockdown tvp, archon only zvp, starship troopers, firebat+valkyrie+tank tvz, cloak wraith + m&m obs killing tvp, omg the list goes on) you would laugh that my win rate is so good. Honestly I'm not saying I'm good (yeah I make new accounts and D-C- bash all day, I never plan on putting the dedication in to play super competitively) If u honestly think iccup stats matter check my stats account -- petzergling597 . 1v1 faggot?


1. Lets not even start talking about individual unit statistics becuase thats stupid as shit and can go back and forth forever, let me give you an example. you can make a unit that has such long range it can shoot my units from off the screen, deals more damage then any 3 of my units combined, and its SPLASH damage. I am NOT saying 2fac is cheese, I'm saying DTs arent any cheesier then 2fac or even facport. If you scout a protoss and he has a goon blocking his ramp, make a fucking ebay, because every good protoss will send their goons out to pressure you as soon as they get them, and if they dont, MAKE A FUCKING EBAY. Also, no amount of goon micro in the world will allow 1gate goons to hold a 2fac.

siege tank does more damage then reaver + dt + dragoon combined?

good to know


i meant any 3 units in my army, meaning that tank does more damage then 3 goons or even 4 zealots
Some eat to remember, some smash to forget. 2009msl.com
Avidkeystamper
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
United States8552 Posts
January 06 2009 04:50 GMT
#347
I posted in a closed thread! Again!

Honestly, what's the whole point of this, I bet the mods are just leaving this open to give an example of a bad thread.
Too many of you are comparing one section or specific scenario to the other, but guess what, we're talking about the entire race, not one unit or one situation or whatnot.
Jaedong
Dromar
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
United States2145 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-01-06 04:55:17
January 06 2009 04:53 GMT
#348
On January 06 2009 12:48 Dead9 wrote:
Can someone please close this? T_T


Seriously.

This thread should have been closed 17 pages ago IMO. OP was the most irresistable of flame bait.
ZeKk
Profile Blog Joined November 2004
Sweden320 Posts
January 06 2009 05:10 GMT
#349
Koreasilver it's ppl like u that make this thread worse than it could be. Posting that here shows more of u than me. Have you ever listen to some1 else or you just hear what u wanna hear? I guess I was right about ur strive of attention. Im done arguing here against u with things that aren't relevant to the thread. This thread has gone out of it's line.
Comeh
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States18918 Posts
January 06 2009 06:03 GMT
#350
(Though this has been said thousands of times) When people say Protoss is easy, they are generally referring to the lower APM that is required, and the less micro that is required, all at the lower levels of course (C/D) to succeed. That, by no means, means it is actually easier than any other race. It's easy right now to think Protoss is the best race, but that happens to be because of a few really good gamers, a few Protoss balanced maps, and the way the meta-game has shifted and the lack of adjustments from other races right now. It'll change in due time. No race is easier/harder than the other in the long run. Yes, M&M micro is hard. Yes, Muta Micro is hard. That doesn't mean your race is any weaker or this game is (noticeably) imbalanced. It just so happens that (logically, due to mechanical reasons) protoss is easier when facing opponents of lower skill level...maybe.
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ambit!ous1
Profile Joined September 2007
United States3662 Posts
January 06 2009 06:08 GMT
#351
terran - 3 bonjwa
zerg - 1 bonjwa
protoss - none yet ( Bisu is getting there )

Protoss is easy for noobs but at a pro level it is most difficult.

Bisu[Shield] / ♔ SoYeon
0xDEADBEEF
Profile Joined September 2007
Germany1235 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-01-06 06:29:15
January 06 2009 06:23 GMT
#352
On January 06 2009 13:24 MyLostTemple wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 06 2009 12:11 TheTruthTeller wrote:
hum....ok . This needs to stop. We have a consensus here that Protoss is the easiest race at low levels (obviously).

What most people fail to realize however is that Protoss is also the easiest race at the highest levels of gaming. The gap of relative difficulty between the 3 races might be narrower at this level but some facts remain;

1.High HP Unit, Limited Unit special-Abilities ...easier micro
2.Longer unit build time, easier macro
3.Easy expansion setup, easier macro
4.Ability to hotkey your entire army in control groups, easier micro
5.Ability to freely mix your unit composition in each group, easier micro

Do you think that these 5 points do not apply at the pro-gaming level? The intensity of the game is higher, but these facts remain. The difference is that progaming Protosses are doing simple tasks at a higher speed and with better precision whereas progaming T and Z users are doing hard tasks at an insane speed with still higher precision. To say that at the highest level of Starcraft, all 3 races are equally difficult to play is simply inaccurate. Yes, the difference in relative difficulty might not be as blatant as it is at the lower levels, but Protoss remains the easiest race at all levels of play.


oh thanks truthteller, i almost missed your bullshit post too.

protoss is different, not easier. do you realize how unforgiving protoss is at early stages of the game? you can NOT fuck up with any of your early units early on because you don't get many of them. have you ever lost your shuttle in a pvt? that unit with vision just a little bit more than a turret? what about losing the 1st observer when you need to break a lurker contain... you know that slow as fuck unit that dies almost instantly. protoss is a precision based race, look at protoss base setup, they have to wall off with pylons everywhere on the map in pvt, you can't just randomly throw pylons down anywhere. protoss HAVE to mix their control groups or their flanks get fucked up (except the 1st group in pvt because that has to be goons). sure units make slower but protoss is also making the most complex unit combination's at times. look at pvz, you have to have incredibly precise unit mixtures or you get fucked in the late game.

all the races require incredibly different skill sets. don't oversimplify.


- Pros almost never lose a shuttle because they have great multitask/micro and attention - they almost always react immediately when the shuttle comes into turret range. So this is only a problem for low skilled players like us

- Early stages of the game are relatively easy for pros - it only gets problematic in late game when the game speed and number of tasks to do simultaneously is too high. Seriously, almost no pro fucks up in early game (unless he went for cheese which failed, or he was too greedy and didn't play the "best" safe build order), due to great build orders and tons of training in the very same situations - it's really all about mid and late game these days. So this is almost a non-issue on pro level




Btw forgot one stupid thing too which also favors Protoss:
- DTs do 40 dmg which kills drones, probes and lings in 1 hit (but not SCV), and when killing a unit in 1 hit it doesn't give you a message that you're under attack. This also really favors Protoss and I've even seen it on pro level where Zerg lost the entire drone count in one base just because of 1-2 DTs which were dropped there and the Z didn't notice it because he was busy somewhere else. If you are under attack you should KNOW. Terran does know, btw, because DTs need 2 hits per SCV, so he gets the message. Zerg has to constantly monitor his drones (look for blood splats) in order to prevent this from happening - which is an unnecessary extra task, making it even harder.
gk_ender
Profile Joined October 2008
United States717 Posts
January 06 2009 06:28 GMT
#353
On January 06 2009 10:20 ZeKk wrote:
I know that Infernal But they never quit expanding. But toss always got a couple of thousands more in economy even if T has the same amount of expos or is sligthly behind. which is wierd imo. If both plays fe t get's behind in eco. It happens in pro games too, only they can beat it due to thier superior skill.
Koreasilver I would like to see you contain and secure all the expos on python. You know you have only 15 minuts to stop him from taking all the expos and that includs attackings.
Artosis is right but too bad you need 10+ games/day to learn that. We all should get the chance to enjoy this game on equal condition. u gotta agree about that. Just hope it sc2 will be more balanced or atleast favouring T


Actually a quote from yellow talks about how terran eat up there economy the slowest, and protoss the fastest. They talk ab how protoss have to think expos ahead bc probes mine faster, and how there units melt against terran, so they need a huge economy to support it. If ur that far behind, then again like it was said b4, your just not doing good. You don't need to contain when u can death march ur units across the map. Plus, lots of expos = spread defense, so u some vults and there probe count drops. The reason y toss needs all that money again is bc ur tanks will melt there army, so they have to replace b4 u can replace urs. So plz, stop being silly and play ur race right.
Taek Bang
village_idiot
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
2436 Posts
January 06 2009 06:36 GMT
#354
Btw forgot one stupid thing too which also favors Protoss:
- DTs do 40 dmg which kills drones, probes and lings in 1 hit (but not SCV), and when killing a unit in 1 hit it doesn't give you a message that you're under attack. This also really favors Protoss and I've even seen it on pro level where Zerg lost the entire drone count in one base just because of 1-2 DTs which were dropped there and the Z didn't notice it because he was busy somewhere else. If you are under attack you should KNOW. Terran does know, btw, because DTs need 2 hits per SCV, so he gets the message. Zerg has to constantly monitor his drones (look for blood splats) in order to prevent this from happening - which is an unnecessary extra task, making it even harder.

This is due to Zerg greediness/laziness/arrogance, which is just plain stupid. Sunk spore or just plain sunk ovie if there are not corsairs in the air. This will prevent pretty much all DT harass at an expo unless the P uses double DT.

I mean, even Protoss build cannons to prevent lurker drops. Why can't Z guard against DTs?
gk_ender
Profile Joined October 2008
United States717 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-01-06 07:12:20
January 06 2009 06:48 GMT
#355


oh thanks truthteller, i almost missed your bullshit post too.

protoss is different, not easier. do you realize how unforgiving protoss is at early stages of the game? you can NOT fuck up with any of your early units early on because you don't get many of them. have you ever lost your shuttle in a pvt? that unit with vision just a little bit more than a turret? what about losing the 1st observer when you need to break a lurker contain... you know that slow as fuck unit that dies almost instantly. protoss is a precision based race, look at protoss base setup, they have to wall off with pylons everywhere on the map in pvt, you can't just randomly throw pylons down anywhere. protoss HAVE to mix their control groups or their flanks get fucked up (except the 1st group in pvt because that has to be goons). sure units make slower but protoss is also making the most complex unit combination's at times. look at pvz, you have to have incredibly precise unit mixtures or you get fucked in the late game.

all the races require incredibly different skill sets. don't oversimplify.

- Pros almost never lose a shuttle because they have great multitask/micro and attention - they almost always react immediately when the shuttle comes into turret range. So this is only a problem for low skilled players like us

- Early stages of the game are relatively easy for pros - it only gets problematic in late game when the game speed and number of tasks to do simultaneously is too high. Seriously, almost no pro fucks up in early game (unless he went for cheese which failed, or he was too greedy and didn't play the "best" safe build order), due to great build orders and tons of training in the very same situations - it's really all about mid and late game these days. So this is almost a non-issue on pro level




Btw forgot one stupid thing too which also favors Protoss:
- DTs do 40 dmg which kills drones, probes and lings in 1 hit (but not SCV), and when killing a unit in 1 hit it doesn't give you a message that you're under attack. This also really favors Protoss and I've even seen it on pro level where Zerg lost the entire drone count in one base just because of 1-2 DTs which were dropped there and the Z didn't notice it because he was busy somewhere else. If you are under attack you should KNOW. Terran does know, btw, because DTs need 2 hits per SCV, so he gets the message. Zerg has to constantly monitor his drones (look for blood splats) in order to prevent this from happening - which is an unnecessary extra task, making it even harder.


I know that it may seem hard but u must also consider that dts are horrible visible to zergs. U have to have ovies, so just put them in the right places and there ya go. zerg is the most mobile race so dt drops are rather hard to pull of on low levels, though i know this may seem a shoker. To pull off a good dt drop u need to distract the enemy zerg, like bisu and stork, which is hard when u dont have apm. So basically ur forced to try a dt drop at a place that may or may not have ovies, and sense u didnt distract anything they can notice it, or better foil it with sunkens. terran, can gripe ab dts bc at low level scans arent as good, and dts can take turrets out, which again since were talking ab low level players, means there will b good dt micro since they have no multitask. just saying

aslo late game ive said this repeatably, is hard as a low level player. Y, bc where as terran is using the same mech units they have the whole game, protoss needs to use storms, arbs, sometimes reavers,, arbs, and carriers (carriers being the easiest at low levels bc thats all theyll focus on) but again, thats a lota units with abilities to pay attention to, vs just tanks and vults with some goliaths. It sucks watching jangbi storm bc we cant pull that off w/o getting temps killed in the process, or losing all our goons, y, bc were bad. Where as terran just walks all over our army. Spider mines, tank fire, and even vult fire, leads to destroyed armies bc we dont know how to spread and deal.
Vs zerg its very hard to keep up with zerg units as a low level player, especially lurkers, that own noobs all day.
Early game, sure may b easier, late game, is kinda difficult, bc protoss late game units are hard to manage, vs, ultra ling, or mech push, well imo, but i think i can say it with confidence.
Taek Bang
MyLostTemple *
Profile Blog Joined November 2004
United States2921 Posts
January 06 2009 06:56 GMT
#356
i think u messed up ur quotes ender
Follow me on twitter: CallMeTasteless
gk_ender
Profile Joined October 2008
United States717 Posts
January 06 2009 07:00 GMT
#357
yeah i did but idk how to fix it
Taek Bang
cz
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
United States3249 Posts
January 06 2009 07:03 GMT
#358
On January 06 2009 16:00 gk_ender wrote:
yeah i did but idk how to fix it


you're probably missing a [/quote] just before you added your own words
gk_ender
Profile Joined October 2008
United States717 Posts
January 06 2009 07:03 GMT
#359
On January 06 2009 15:56 MyLostTemple wrote:
i think u messed up ur quotes ender

Isnt this tastless or artosis?
Taek Bang
gk_ender
Profile Joined October 2008
United States717 Posts
January 06 2009 07:07 GMT
#360
idk i cant figure the quote thing out its prob a simple fix lol
Taek Bang
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