EPTUS federal income tax fraud - Page 10
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Jibba
United States22883 Posts
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sith
United States2474 Posts
On February 25 2010 16:21 StarMasterX wrote: Ok this got way off topic. Yes they have the power to tax. The reasons behind it however are shady just like almost every other government policy. /argument. Get a job hippie! | ||
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StarMasterX
United States113 Posts
On February 26 2010 08:22 sith wrote:/argument. If only it were that simple. | ||
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ToeJam
United States282 Posts
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KwarK
United States44373 Posts
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ShaperofDreams
Canada2492 Posts
eg. banks/corporations being bailed out with tax money and then not paying workers they owe and even firing more employees, but buying 10 000$ desks. At first I hated Michael Moore without even understanding why (his sensationalist style was one reason) But then someone asked me to just watch a film of his without being too sentimental and with a bit of patience...check out "Capitalism: a love story" I'm real glad I live in Canada, even though lately the politics have been getting more fucked. Even though taxes are high here and the weathers shit for now I prefer it. Maybe Arizona is cool cause of how cheap rent is and there is a nerd house there. | ||
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StayFrosty
Canada743 Posts
But I agree with most of you, the level of corruption in the political realm makes me want to be a drug dealer. | ||
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StayFrosty
Canada743 Posts
On February 26 2010 09:42 ShaperofDreams wrote: I think it's fucked that a lot of shady people are in the us treasury and corporations have the government by the balls. eg. banks/corporations being bailed out with tax money and then not paying workers they owe and even firing more employees, but buying 10 000$ desks. At first I hated Michael Moore without even understanding why (his sensationalist style was one reason) But then someone asked me to just watch a film of his without being too sentimental and with a bit of patience...check out "Capitalism: a love story" I'm real glad I live in Canada, even though lately the politics have been getting more fucked. Even though taxes are high here and the weathers shit for now I prefer it. Maybe Arizona is cool cause of how cheap rent is and there is a nerd house there. The real problem is the ex corporate fat cats (i.e. reps from goldman sachs) being inducted into the treasury department. Often, people are recruited into the white house not because they will necessarily give the correct answer, but will give the answer that is desired. | ||
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dybydx
Canada1764 Posts
if ur dad was ghetto poor, theres a damn good chance that you and your children and their children will also be homeless. | ||
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uiCk
Canada1925 Posts
On February 26 2010 11:56 StayFrosty wrote: No taxes = no infrastructure. But I agree with most of you, the level of corruption in the political realm makes me want to be a drug dealer. drug dealers have tax of their own, its called getting robed, by people whos line if business is "gettin money". | ||
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KwarK
United States44373 Posts
On February 26 2010 12:11 dybydx wrote: agreed. alotta us citizen are getting their ass screwed. sure the gov tax u in the name of public service but the system is structured such that alotta ppl are in a cycle of poverty. if ur dad was ghetto poor, theres a damn good chance that you and your children and their children will also be homeless. And you blame tax for that? Tax is the leveller. Capitalism is what creates the inequality. Tax is what educates people regardless of their background. | ||
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MoltkeWarding
5195 Posts
Anyhow, this thread is about income tax, not tax in general. The income tax has existed for a hundred years. Taxes in general have existed since the dawn of civilization. When it comes to taxation, an instinctive defense of the present system as the only viable one merely propagates putrid imaginations. | ||
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koreasilver
9109 Posts
On February 26 2010 12:11 dybydx wrote: agreed. alotta us citizen are getting their ass screwed. sure the gov tax u in the name of public service but the system is structured such that alotta ppl are in a cycle of poverty. if ur dad was ghetto poor, theres a damn good chance that you and your children and their children will also be homeless. Then why do multiple European countries, which have much higher tax rates, have a higher quality of life than America? Canada also has a higher tax rate and it also have a higher quality of life than America. It's not the tax that is the problem. | ||
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MoltkeWarding
5195 Posts
On February 26 2010 12:45 koreasilver wrote: Then why do multiple European countries, which have much higher tax rates, have a higher quality of life than America? Canada also has a higher tax rate and it also have a higher quality of life than America. It's not the tax that is the problem. You realize that this is a very complicated question, which can only marginally be ascribed to comparative tax rates. Few people who raise the issue have even thought through what "quality of life" really means. It's not GDP per capita or HDI. | ||
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ShaperofDreams
Canada2492 Posts
On February 26 2010 12:38 MoltkeWarding wrote: I will wager that approximately the same tax revenue has been spent on my education as on the semi-literate children of inner-Detroit. Obviously tax does not educate people regardless of background. Example of living too much in theory. Anyhow, this thread is about income tax, not tax in general. The income tax has existed for a hundred years. Taxes in general have existed since the dawn of civilization. When it comes to taxation, an instinctive defense of the present system as the only viable one merely propagates putrid imaginations. Well said Moltke  It seems like some people say "It's this way cause its the best way!" and claim that nothing else would work when that's clearly untrue. | ||
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fight_or_flight
United States3988 Posts
A sales tax (taxing commerce) is different because the government facilitated your buying of goods by providing infrastructure and stability to society. Property taxes are in exchange for providing services. As soon as you start to interact with society, which the government helps maintain, there will be taxes. But to take money out of your paycheck is basically saying the government owns you like property. And thats what the whole point of income taxes are. Without income taxes, the federal government wouldn't have anything backing their bonds. When a government sells a bond, they are selling their citizens into bondage. Without being able to tax their citizens' labor, governments could not effectively offer bonds. Income taxes go strait to the federal reserve to maintain the debt. They don't build roads or schools. As I posted earlier, and as the picture I posted illustrates, this was all the result of a takeover in 1913 of the US. The federal reserve was allowed to be the creditor of the US government. The gov was then allowed to make money by selling us into slavery and didn't have to create new taxes (which weren't good for election day). The fed and banking cartel got a nation of slaves. Their money became the dominant money. Since all money is created through loans, every dollar in our economy is owed to the banks, and ultimately the fed, the originator of that money. For example, say the fed loans a bank $1000 at low interest. That bank can use this high powered money to loan out $100,000 to people. Lets say the fractional reserve money multiplier is 10, so now there is $1,000,000 in the economy of federal reserve notes (FRNs). Now, lets say the fed decides not to loan out any more money. That $1 million in the economy is in the form of loans borrowed from banks. In one year, $1.1 million will need to be paid back to the banks due to interest. That means if no new money is created (no additional debt is taken on by anyone), a portion of people will default, because there is simply only $1 million FRNs in existence, yet $1.1 million are owed. A portion of people default, and their assets go to the bank. The bank auctions the assets. Since there is less money in the economy (ie, deflation) the assets sell for less than the original loan. Now the bank is having difficulty staying solvent. They could default on the fed's loan, meaning the fed could take possession of the bank. (see where this is going?) Anyway, the loans that were originally defaulted on were written off at the bank, thereby destroying that money and taking it out of the economy. The bank only recovered a portion of its loan from selling the collateral. Now, the bank's reserves are less so it reduces the amount of money it can loan. The money multiplier is still 10, but now instead of $100,000 from the fed's original loan, the bank has lost money, so its now less. Unless the fed loans out more money, allowing more loans to be made and more money in the system, the bank will become insolvent and the fed will then own all its assets. Note that the original assets that were auctioned off are still denominated in FRNs. So as the process winds down, everything that was ever put up as collateral will be owed. So we see that essentially our money system is a ponzi scheme and the originator of our debt-based money eventually owns everything purchased with that money. Of course the fed would never stop making loans and intentionally crash the economy (maybe), but the other breaking point is when the citizens are unable to aquire new debt. When this happens, the same scenario as described above plays out. The fed in this case doesn't make loans because there is no one new to absorb those loans. The federal government and federal reserve each benefit from this situation, until it ultimately collapses under its own weight. The collapse is the point at which the banks collect their paycheck. From 1913 until now, the banks have benfited primarily from control of institutions, individuals, and entire countries, and have profited that way, while the gov got a blank checkbook. In the collapse stage, the bankers come to collect all of our assets. For example, perhaps most of the property in america. | ||
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Jibba
United States22883 Posts
On February 26 2010 12:38 MoltkeWarding wrote: I will wager that approximately the same tax revenue has been spent on my education as on the semi-literate children of inner-Detroit. Obviously tax does not educate people regardless of background. Example of living too much in theory. Anyhow, this thread is about income tax, not tax in general. The income tax has existed for a hundred years. Taxes in general have existed since the dawn of civilization. When it comes to taxation, an instinctive defense of the present system as the only viable one merely propagates putrid imaginations. Michigan public schools are almost entirely funded by the state lottery and sin taxes, but you're right that the city of Detroit (Wayne County) has squandered millions of dollars over the past thirty years, and this corruption has a large part to blame for the state of the city. Still, that's irrelevant from things like the auto industry and the federal government. It raises an interesting point, however, that the federal government is actually less corrupt than state and local governments. Few people believe it, but it's largely true across the country (and probably in other countries as well.) | ||
Chill
Calgary26004 Posts
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VabuDeltaKaiser
Germany1107 Posts
from there http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=111578 to here, people slowly get to miss the theme, ignore the point- even start to participate, althought they didnt before and havo no idea, just because feeling what it is about. interesting way to check back how far we are on learning really. | ||
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Xlancer
United States126 Posts
Perhaps we should be asking whether or not the IRS needs to obtain a warrant before gaining access our private finacial records(per the 4th Amendment). I know the big telecom companies are getting into trouble for allowing the FBI to conduct warrantless wiretaps here in the US. Maybe the company we work for should also be getting into trouble for allowing the IRS access to our personal finacial records without a warrant... Perhaps we should be asking why the tax code is so complicated (it's over 13 thousand pages long). Not even the IRS commissioner does his own taxes. The longer and harder to read the tax code is, the harder it is for the average citizen and small business. We can't afford high powered and well connected lobbyists, lawyers and accountants to find (or create)every single loophole in the several million words of code. | ||
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