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VabuDeltaKaiser
Germany1107 Posts
On February 25 2010 08:39 koreasilver wrote: You can't be serious. You just really can't be serious. I AM.! ! ! ! absolute no joke, and you fail by your question!! you fail hard!!! http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3254488777215293198#docid=-1656880303867390173 this explains everything. join or die. | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
On February 25 2010 08:39 koreasilver wrote: You can't be serious. You just really can't be serious. lmao seriously, why even bother? :/ | ||
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koreasilver
9109 Posts
On February 25 2010 08:41 koreasilver wrote: no, no and no. did you even follow anything? theres a ton of evidence that the world is flat THE WORLD IS NOT ROUND you need 2 minutes to google flat earth society and tell you all facts. | ||
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aikepah
United States115 Posts
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StarMasterX
United States113 Posts
On February 16 2010 12:27 CaucasianAsian wrote: this thread makes me laugh. do people seriously believe they don't have to pay income tax? Try never paying taxes and enjoy your 7 by 9 cell. There's a reason people get hailed to jail for not paying taxes. I don't think that is the issue. We know that you will go to jail if you don't pay income tax, but that doesn't stop the tax from being ridiculous. Potentially HALF of your income gone?? As far as I know the tax is unconstitutional because there is nothing that directly states the consitutionality of an income tax. The only thing that allows them to do it is a law they passed that basically says "we can tax you for whatever we want whenever we want" and that is the justification for the tax. People arguing against income tax say there is no justification for the IRS being involved and there is no justification for a direct tax on wages before you ever see the money. The problem is, you are arguing against a big government, so over the years they have simply modified the rules to give them more power so you can't win. | ||
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sith
United States2474 Posts
You are not a constitutional scholar. You were not on the Supreme Court when these kinds of precedents were set years ago. You lack a basic understanding of the US Government and what it requires to operate. How do you idiots think roads are built? Education funded? How do you think we got to be so powerful? I hope one day they let you people get off without paying taxes. That's fine by me, do what you want. But it'll be a cold day in hell before I let you drive to work on that road paved with my hard earned money. So I think I speak for everyone here on the side of reason when I politely ask you to educate yourselves and then get the fuck out. | ||
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Saturnize
United States2473 Posts
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StarMasterX
United States113 Posts
On February 25 2010 15:29 sith wrote:The constitution doesn't specifically grant the federal government power to do each and every little fucking thing that it does, it's broadly covered under the necessary and proper clause. The entire idea of the constitution was to be a restriction on government power. Instead the necessary and proper clause and other laws (such as the 16th amendment I believe) have been stretched by the government to give them the power to basically do whatever they want today. Tax on wages is NOT listed in the constution. Instead we basically have "we can tax you whenever we choose to for whatever reason". I can see you disagreeing with what exactly the definition of "necessary and proper" is, but here's the thing: people smarter than you have already made that decision. People with direct interests in the tax have made that decision. Or do you believe government makes decisions without self interest in mind? How do you idiots think roads are built? Education funded? How do you think we got to be so powerful? On a state level? Income tax by the way has not helped a damn in states like California which is broke as shit. Hell even further, the US is pretty much broke as it eternally owes countries like China. Most if not all of our federal tax dollars go to paying off the debt and interest. The rest of the money is simply printed by the fed (another joke). Ok this got way off topic. Yes they have the power to tax. The reasons behind it however are shady just like almost every other government policy. | ||
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sesuna
United States3 Posts
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ghrur
United States3786 Posts
On February 25 2010 08:59 StarMasterX wrote: I don't think that is the issue. We know that you will go to jail if you don't pay income tax, but that doesn't stop the tax from being ridiculous. Potentially HALF of your income gone?? As far as I know the tax is unconstitutional because there is nothing that directly states the consitutionality of an income tax. The only thing that allows them to do it is a law they passed that basically says "we can tax you for whatever we want whenever we want" and that is the justification for the tax. People arguing against income tax say there is no justification for the IRS being involved and there is no justification for a direct tax on wages before you ever see the money. The problem is, you are arguing against a big government, so over the years they have simply modified the rules to give them more power so you can't win. It's constitutional because it's in the 16th amendment. It now counts as part of the constitution. It doesn't matter if the original didn't have it. Hell, the original didn't have women's suffrage or black suffrage either. Should we count those things as unconstitutional? No, because we AMENDED the constitution. Hence, income taxes=constitutional. Income taxes=legal because there are laws specifying the income tax. >_> | ||
Mystlord
United States10264 Posts
This thread needs to be locked and it should go die in a ditch before anyone else gets infected by the stupid that's flowing from this thread. I refuse to even give credence to StarMasterX's arguments by addressing them. I suggest the rest of you do the same. | ||
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StarMasterX
United States113 Posts
On February 26 2010 06:13 Mystlord wrote:I refuse to even give credence to StarMasterX's arguments by addressing them. I suggest the rest of you do the same. Because there is no way to argue against it. Again, I'm not saying that it isn't legal. I am simply saying it is shady the way it is done. | ||
Jibba
United States22883 Posts
On February 26 2010 06:12 ghrur wrote: It's constitutional because it's in the 16th amendment. It now counts as part of the constitution. It doesn't matter if the original didn't have it. Hell, the original didn't have women's suffrage or black suffrage either. Should we count those things as unconstitutional? No, because we AMENDED the constitution. Hence, income taxes=constitutional. Income taxes=legal because there are laws specifying the income tax. >_> It amazes me that this point still gets past people. Laws can go under judicial review and be deemed unconstitutional; laws are made independent of the Constitution. Amendments are changes made TO the Constitution therefore they cannot be unconstitutional. The only other method to altar the Constitution (Supreme Court cannot do it) is by Constitutional Convention, which will never ever ever ever ever ever be called again. It is the very definition of a cluster fuck. StarMasterX, read Article I of the Constitution. What makes you think the explicit intent of the Constitution is to limit the power of the Federal government? It was drafted by a federalist (James Madison) with the compromise being made for the BoR. The Federalists held more power, not the other way around. Major roads (I-94, etc.) are provided by the Federal government. School funding is mostly handled by the States. Other major infrastructure developments (the laying of wire for the internet, for example) have to be done by the Federal government. State budgets cannot go into deficit spending, the Federal budget can. | ||
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Railz
United States1449 Posts
/thread? | ||
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StarMasterX
United States113 Posts
/notthread? | ||
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Railz
United States1449 Posts
For every Thomas Jefferson quote you'll eventually put up, I could just put up an Alexander Hamilton or John Adams quote to counter act it. No matter the case, the amendment is in and the IRS is a legal instution deemed so by the SCOTUS, you have no ground to stand on other than your own tinfoil | ||
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Saturnize
United States2473 Posts
On February 26 2010 07:15 Railz wrote: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sixteenth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution /thread? Citing wikipedia yea thats one way to persuade people. :p | ||
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Railz
United States1449 Posts
On February 26 2010 07:31 Saturnize wrote: Citing wikipedia yea thats one way to persuade people. :p Yes, because citing a real amendment to the constitution is so debatable. I don't think I need to persuade people that Amendment sixteen exists. | ||
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danieljdemarco
United States13 Posts
The real question is whether an income tax is justified. Does an individual have the right to tax another individual? Can an individual pass on to a representative a right he does not first have himself? Can many individuals pass on to a representative a right that none of them has? Remember, just because a government does something or enacts some law does not make it right. A prime example is the prohibition of alcohol in this country, but that is just one. Galileo was put on trial for his (now universally accepted) views. He was forced to recant them and kept under house arrest. Socrates was forced to take hemlock, ending his life, because he "corrupted the youth." Nelson Mandela was imprisoned by his government. And Irwin Schiff, and many other tax protesters (including potentially OP?) have been and will be wrongly imprisoned for refusing to give their hard-earned money to a group of armed thugs in Washington (ok, the congressmen et al may not be the ones sticking a gun in your face, but if you resist paying your taxes enough, someone will show up with a gun in your face, and his boss's boss's boss's boss is one of those thugs in washington). | ||
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Railz
United States1449 Posts
On February 26 2010 07:43 danieljdemarco wrote: There may be no law that specifically says "Every citizen has to pay the income tax" or something to that effect, but as others have said, you will face severe consequences if you refuse to pay. Look at Irwin Schiff, who has been jailed for not paying his income taxes. Is he right in saying that it is unjust for a government to collect taxes? Sure he is. But the government wants those taxes pretty badly; enough to jail a few people, making examples of them so the rest of us pay. Heck, a mafia doesn't have a law saying "You have to pay protection money" but you'd better pay if you want to keep your legs in tact. The real question is whether an income tax is justified. Does an individual have the right to tax another individual? Can an individual pass on to a representative a right he does not first have himself? Can many individuals pass on to a representative a right that none of them has? Remember, just because a government does something or enacts some law does not make it right. A prime example is the prohibition of alcohol in this country, but that is just one. Galileo was put on trial for his (now universally accepted) views. He was forced to recant them and kept under house arrest. Socrates was forced to take hemlock, ending his life, because he "corrupted the youth." Nelson Mandela was imprisoned by his government. And Irwin Schiff, and many other tax protesters (including potentially OP?) have been and will be wrongly imprisoned for refusing to give their hard-earned money to a group of armed thugs in Washington (ok, the congressmen et al may not be the ones sticking a gun in your face, but if you resist paying your taxes enough, someone will show up with a gun in your face, and his boss's boss's boss's boss is one of those thugs in washington). We're represented. You just don't like how you're represented. Not anyones problem but your owns. Everyone you used as an example was an individual who fought the power, which is all well and good, but you can't claim it illegal when our own representatives voted it legal. If you get caught not playing taxes, of course you go to jail. I don't like "don't turn on red" signs but that doesn't give me the right now to turn on them, even though they have no legal right to be there other then representatives wanted them there. | ||
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