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On February 16 2010 12:02 Mindcrime wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2010 11:43 Rothbardian wrote:
Yes, the tax code is flawed, it is inherent in its intent. Abolish theft. However, looking at it in the Constitutional aspect, you overlook this:
Section I Article 8 (The only legislative powers of the Federal Government):
The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;
You really think you can have contradictory law? The signing of the Constitution supercedes any amendments (Ergo, Sec 1 Article 8).
No... just no. The most recent amendments override anything to the contrary elsewhere in the Constitution. The apportionment requirement on income tax is just as dead as the fugitive slave clause and the selection of Senators by state legislatures.
I didn't mention it in my post above because I thought it would be too complicated for people, but the direct election of senators was the third big thing that happened in 1913.
Direct election of senators allowed certain senators campaigns to be financed, and more importantly, it made the federal government autonomous from the states. Since the states could no longer put in a senator that would emphasize strong states' rights, it allowed the senate to have more freedom to create a strong federal government. It also allowed them to control the way the federal $$ would be spent, which were shortly available with the fed/income tax combo.
Notice that we've been in almost continuous wars since 1913. It takes money to wage war, and war is actually almost impossible to wage without massive loans. These loans generate large returns on those who give them, and war in general is very profitable.
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On February 16 2010 12:08 Rothbardian wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2010 12:02 Mindcrime wrote:On February 16 2010 11:43 Rothbardian wrote:
Yes, the tax code is flawed, it is inherent in its intent. Abolish theft. However, looking at it in the Constitutional aspect, you overlook this:
Section I Article 8 (The only legislative powers of the Federal Government):
The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;
You really think you can have contradictory law? The signing of the Constitution supercedes any amendments (Ergo, Sec 1 Article 8).
No... just no. The most recent amendments override anything to the contrary elsewhere in the Constitution. The apportionment requirement on income tax is just as dead as the fugitive slave clause and the selection of Senators by state legislatures. Except you are wrong: Amendments to certain aspects of Article One, unlike amendments to other articles, are explicitly restricted by the Constitution (these restrictions are imposed by Article Five). For example, no amendment made prior to 1808 could affect the first and fourth clauses of Section Nine. The first clause prevented Congress from prohibiting the slave trade until 1808; the fourth barred any direct taxes that were not apportioned among the States according to population. Article 5: The Congress, whenever two thirds of both Houses shall deem it necessary, shall propose Amendments to this Constitution, or, on the Application of the Legislatures of two thirds of the several States, shall call a Convention for proposing Amendments, which, in either Case, shall be valid to all Intents and Purposes, as part of this Constitution, when ratified by the Legislatures of three fourths of the several States, or by Conventions in three fourths thereof, as the one or the other Mode of Ratification may be proposed by the Congress; Provided that no Amendment which may be made prior to the Year One thousand eight hundred and eight shall in any Manner affect the first and fourth Clauses in the Ninth Section of the first Article; and that no State, without its Consent, shall be deprived of its equal Suffrage in the Senate.Try again, please. I used to be a strict constructionist Constitutionalist before I realized the illogical, and folly of Social Contract Theory & the violation of Natural Law which is inherent in any State.
Are we living in a time before 1808?
This is totally irrelevant.
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On February 16 2010 12:12 JWD wrote:
I had better leave this thread before Rothbardian posts again, reading this crap is tortuous LOL
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Korea (South)11580 Posts
this thread makes me laugh. do people seriously believe they don't have to pay income tax? Try never paying taxes and enjoy your 7 by 9 cell. There's a reason people get hailed to jail for not paying taxes.
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So he's wrong in a special case, but where do they prohibit modification of Section 9 in the year 1913? It only says that Amendments made before 1808 cannot affect those clauses. You have pasted the full text of Article 5, and unless you're using the Islamic calendar or something, the 16th Amendment was ratified a full 100 years after the expiration of this ban, and there are no other restrictions on Section 9.
Look, there are arguments about income tax that don't involve misinterpreting the Constitution, I suggest you wiki those instead.
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On February 16 2010 12:27 CaucasianAsian wrote:
this thread makes me laugh. do people seriously believe they don't have to pay income tax? Try never paying taxes and enjoy your 7 by 9 cell. There's a reason people get hailed to jail for not paying taxes.
Obv al capone never went to jail off tax evasion. lol and for those who aruge that taxes aren't a legit law i'm sure if we had a tax lawer or two they could point out a case in the century or two that shows someone saying income tax isn't legit and getting stuck down in court for being a jerk.
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On February 16 2010 14:25 Virtue wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2010 12:27 CaucasianAsian wrote:
this thread makes me laugh. do people seriously believe they don't have to pay income tax? Try never paying taxes and enjoy your 7 by 9 cell. There's a reason people get hailed to jail for not paying taxes. Obv al capone never went to jail off tax evasion. lol and for those who aruge that taxes aren't a legit law i'm sure if we had a tax lawer or two they could point out a case in the century or two that shows someone saying income tax isn't legit and getting stuck down in court for being a jerk.
Wesley Snipes
although I think he's currently appealing
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it seems ironic.
You dont pay the government money on your income.
So the government spends money to keep you locked up.
i lold
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Well, they also just take the money and make you pay a penalty so the government doesn't really lose much from locking up offenders.
I really hate this time of year, more work and more idiots bringing this stuff up.
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I've heard about this before too, and even if taxes aren't actually a law, it doesn't really matter because you will still get arrested or penalized for not paying it anyway. thats the important part. I'm pretty sure its common knowledge that most governments are deceptive, you just have to deal with it.
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On February 16 2010 14:42 StarsPride wrote:
it seems ironic.
You dont pay the government money on your income.
So the government spends money to keep you locked up.
i lold
While it may cost them more to imprison you, think of the advertising benefits. They see you get hauled off to jail, and then they pay their taxes. 
While I agree that our taxes are often grossly misused I don't agree that taxation is unlawful or that this country would be better off without any taxes.
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On February 17 2010 04:13 Disastorm wrote:
I've heard about this before too, and even if taxes aren't actually a law, it doesn't really matter because you will still get arrested or penalized for not paying it anyway. thats the important part. I'm pretty sure its common knowledge that most governments are deceptive, you just have to deal with it.
no, no and no.
did you even follow anything?
theres a ton of people who won over income tax justice.
YOU JUST DON'T HAVE TO PAY INCOME TAX.
you need 2 minutes to google aaron russo and tell you all facts.
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On February 17 2010 04:13 Disastorm wrote:
I've heard about this before too, and even if taxes aren't actually a law, it doesn't really matter because you will still get arrested or penalized for not paying it anyway. thats the important part. I'm pretty sure its common knowledge that most governments are deceptive, you just have to deal with it.
no, no and no.
did you even follow anything?
theres a ton of people who won over income tax justice.
YOU JUST DON'T HAVE TO PAY INCOME TAX.
you need 2 minutes to google aaron russo and tell you all facts.
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On June 23 2008 02:34 travis wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2008 02:20 crabapple wrote:
and yes, they can pay off the debt if they wanted to. we have the power to fucking print the money/increase credit and we do it all the time.
You couldn't pay off debt to other countries with this method though, right?
They own us through bonds. We could offer to buy them using printed money but that would then cause inflation and consumer confidence.
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On February 25 2010 08:25 VabuDeltaKaiser wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2010 04:13 Disastorm wrote:
I've heard about this before too, and even if taxes aren't actually a law, it doesn't really matter because you will still get arrested or penalized for not paying it anyway. thats the important part. I'm pretty sure its common knowledge that most governments are deceptive, you just have to deal with it. no, no and no. did you even follow anything? theres a ton of people who won over income tax justice. YOU JUST DON'T HAVE TO PAY INCOME TAX. you need 2 minutes to google aaron russo and tell you all facts.
Wow...you seriously believe that? Paying income tax is NOT optional, you've been consumed by conspiracy theorists my friend...
On February 16 2010 14:25 Virtue wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2010 12:27 CaucasianAsian wrote:
this thread makes me laugh. do people seriously believe they don't have to pay income tax? Try never paying taxes and enjoy your 7 by 9 cell. There's a reason people get hailed to jail for not paying taxes. Obv al capone never went to jail off tax evasion. lol and for those who aruge that taxes aren't a legit law i'm sure if we had a tax lawer or two they could point out a case in the century or two that shows someone saying income tax isn't legit and getting stuck down in court for being a jerk.
Actually he did...they knew he was a really bad guy but that's all they could actually pin him down on :O
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On February 25 2010 08:32 jello_biafra wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2010 08:25 VabuDeltaKaiser wrote:On February 17 2010 04:13 Disastorm wrote:
I've heard about this before too, and even if taxes aren't actually a law, it doesn't really matter because you will still get arrested or penalized for not paying it anyway. thats the important part. I'm pretty sure its common knowledge that most governments are deceptive, you just have to deal with it. no, no and no. did you even follow anything? theres a ton of people who won over income tax justice. YOU JUST DON'T HAVE TO PAY INCOME TAX. you need 2 minutes to google aaron russo and tell you all facts. Wow...you seriously believe that? Paying income tax is NOT optional, you've been consumed by conspiracy theorists my friend... Show nested quote +On February 16 2010 14:25 Virtue wrote:On February 16 2010 12:27 CaucasianAsian wrote:
this thread makes me laugh. do people seriously believe they don't have to pay income tax? Try never paying taxes and enjoy your 7 by 9 cell. There's a reason people get hailed to jail for not paying taxes. Obv al capone never went to jail off tax evasion. lol and for those who aruge that taxes aren't a legit law i'm sure if we had a tax lawer or two they could point out a case in the century or two that shows someone saying income tax isn't legit and getting stuck down in court for being a jerk. Actually he did...they knew he was a really bad guy but that's all they could actually pin him down on :O
lol someone not even informed :D
ROFL
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On February 25 2010 08:25 VabuDeltaKaiser wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2010 04:13 Disastorm wrote:
I've heard about this before too, and even if taxes aren't actually a law, it doesn't really matter because you will still get arrested or penalized for not paying it anyway. thats the important part. I'm pretty sure its common knowledge that most governments are deceptive, you just have to deal with it. no, no and no. did you even follow anything? theres a ton of people who won over income tax justice. YOU JUST DON'T HAVE TO PAY INCOME TAX. you need 2 minutes to google aaron russo and tell you all facts.
You can't be serious. You just really can't be serious.
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On February 25 2010 08:37 VabuDeltaKaiser wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2010 08:32 jello_biafra wrote:On February 25 2010 08:25 VabuDeltaKaiser wrote:On February 17 2010 04:13 Disastorm wrote:
I've heard about this before too, and even if taxes aren't actually a law, it doesn't really matter because you will still get arrested or penalized for not paying it anyway. thats the important part. I'm pretty sure its common knowledge that most governments are deceptive, you just have to deal with it. no, no and no. did you even follow anything? theres a ton of people who won over income tax justice. YOU JUST DON'T HAVE TO PAY INCOME TAX. you need 2 minutes to google aaron russo and tell you all facts. Wow...you seriously believe that? Paying income tax is NOT optional, you've been consumed by conspiracy theorists my friend... On February 16 2010 14:25 Virtue wrote:On February 16 2010 12:27 CaucasianAsian wrote:
this thread makes me laugh. do people seriously believe they don't have to pay income tax? Try never paying taxes and enjoy your 7 by 9 cell. There's a reason people get hailed to jail for not paying taxes. Obv al capone never went to jail off tax evasion. lol and for those who aruge that taxes aren't a legit law i'm sure if we had a tax lawer or two they could point out a case in the century or two that shows someone saying income tax isn't legit and getting stuck down in court for being a jerk. Actually he did...they knew he was a really bad guy but that's all they could actually pin him down on :O lol someone not even informed :D ROFL
I'm almost speechless, just be glad you don't live in the US or you'd actually be trying this shit and getting your dumb ass hauled off to jail.
Seriously if you're not trolling then there is no hope for you, in 2 separate threads many people have proved to you time and time again in various different ways that INCOME TAX HAS TO BE PAID and if you don't believe it yet then you're never gonna take your tinfoil hat off.
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no, no and no.
did you even follow anything?
theres a ton of evidence that the world is flat
THE WORLD IS NOT ROUND
you need 2 minutes to google flat earth society and tell you all facts.
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Vote Ron Paul. Get rid of the IRS. All is well in this issue.
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EPT
