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On December 11 2007 11:38 HeadBangaa wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2007 11:33 Mindcrime wrote:On December 11 2007 10:50 HeadBangaa wrote:On December 11 2007 10:48 pyrogenetix wrote:
i dont get it.
if you dont accept evolution then why study biology and then get a job within the area?
real life troll. Not all biologists believe that macroevolution explains human origins. But that's not the matter here at all. A man was fired for his beliefs. See my church analogy. Are you consistent? This is quite true. Liberty University does have a Biology department after all. I've read from many biologists who believe that nature is obviously the work of a designer. Not Christians or religious ones, and I've heard of biologists who have come to believe in God through their work in the natural sciences. Nature is God's greatest work. I'm not implying that's the majority opinion. But for you to imply that nobody worth their salt has considered creationism, is absurd. I'm out of this thread anyways, it's incredibly disappointing.
That a number of scientists believe in a god is a given. However, I certainly haven't seen any respectable ones who have endorsed creationism lately.
EDIT: Well, unless Kent Hovind can be considered a respectable scientist. I mean, he does have three degrees in Christian education from unaccredited universities, and he did teach for 15 years... at a Christian school that he founded himself.
This, of course, was all before he went to jail for tax evasion. He's not a very good Christian if you ask me. "Render unto Caesar..." and all that, you know?
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I just don't seem to understand why someone would believe that God created nature just because nature is awesome. There are a million possible explanations, with the one holding the most evidence and explaining/predicting the most is evolution.
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On December 11 2007 11:18 WhatisProtoss wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2007 11:00 fight_or_flight wrote:On December 11 2007 10:56 WhatisProtoss wrote:On December 11 2007 10:06 fight_or_flight wrote:On December 11 2007 09:56 WhatisProtoss wrote:On December 11 2007 08:40 Jyvblamo wrote:On December 11 2007 08:39 WhatisProtoss wrote:On December 11 2007 06:10 vGl-CoW wrote:On December 11 2007 06:07 HnR)hT wrote:On December 11 2007 05:53 Aepplet wrote:
not believing in evolution obviously made him unfit for the job. this is no different from any other firing. How can belief in a proposition or lack thereof make someone unfit for any job? how can you be fit for a job in a field where you completely reject one of its main paradigms Many outstanding biologists, chemists, and surgeons are strong Christians. That shows that anybody can be fit for a scientific job, whether with religion or not. Accepting evolution has nothing to do with how well you can perform in a science-related field. Believe it or not, being Christian does not automatically mean that you disbelieve evolution. But, does believing in evolution seriously detract from your performance in science? Albert Einstein believed in a greater intelligence behind the universe. Believing in evolution, believe it or not, has very little to do with how well you can perform a surgery based on one's knowledge of biology. Just because you believe in evolution doesn't mean you denounce theories of biology and chemistry. I don't see how believing in and applying evolution affect each other. Evolution is simply a model. One can disagree with it but still apply it correctly. Whoa.... How do you APPLY evolution?! Since when have people been applying evolution in their jobs?? Well obviously he had to apply the theory and he didn't, thats why he lost his job. I honestly don't know how its "applied" in a research setting. There's no way evolution can be applied to research. It's just a theory. Not fact.
This is incorrect. It is used all the time in genome sequencing to help identify genes that encode proteins. This is one of the ways Craig Venter became the first to sequence the genome, making him worth about 40 billion. There are other applications as well. Many more if you include the rapid mutation of viruses and bacteria, but I think you just meant things involving evolutionary history built around evolutionary theory.
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Heh, I bet if people realized there was money, particularly billions, in evolution more people would agree!
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He was fired for the same reason a Muslim orthodox girl can't be a supermodel.
Do you think that it would be right for that girl to then sue the company for discriminating her just because she were a Muslim? Because, really, neither she nor he in this thread were fired because of their beliefs, but instead fired because their beliefs interfered with their work.
You can't really deny evolution when you study microbiology. Since the cycles happens so fast there evolution takes only a few hours.
Another very strong proof of evolution is the hundreds of dog types we have today, they all origin from just a few dog types. It doesn't involve natural selection, but it certainly involve evolution and it shows how extremely fast big changes can happen if just the right selection mods are there. Then natural selection is extremely easy to proove, its simple probability math.
So, if he were a microbiologist denying evolution just a bit in any report will mean that he is unfit as hell for the job. If he were researching on how species are related to each other or how the features of each species might have appeared, then he too can't deny evolition or the whole field is useless.
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Wow, regardless of whatever anyone believes, this is a really nasty situation for anyone to be involved in. Especially since it is government funded...don't know how we are going to get out of this one without someone being really ticked off...
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Norway10161 Posts
On December 11 2007 11:27 DV8 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2007 09:44 ToKoreaWithLove wrote:On December 11 2007 09:40 Polar wrote:On December 11 2007 09:33 ToKoreaWithLove wrote:
If you refuse to work you will be fired. It's pretty simple. I would not be fired from McDonald's for being a vegan, but I would be fired for refusing to touch meat at McDonald's - it's the same thing.
Either his previous boss is a jerk or he is just throwing the descrimination card to get some money. You just quoted him saying that he was not adverse to conducting research testing evolutionary theory... Obviously if this is false, he has no case. If it's accurate, he most certainly does. Yes, but the article also states that his case was dismissed because he requested not to work on "evolutionary aspects of research". I don't know how this commision work, but I imagine they do their research, so it is tempting to dismiss him - however I am not doing that, I am merely stating that he was rightfully fired if this is correct. The article also includes "Abraham, who was dismissed eight months after he was hired, said he was willing to do research using evolutionary concepts but that he had been required to accept Darwin's theory of evolution as scientific fact or lose his job." Its more he said she said bullshit. Either way it comes down to why he was fired.
Either read what I write or don't bother quoting!
Don't pick something out of context and quote it, then say the exact same thing I said 3-4 pages further back based on the exact same words from the exact same article. If that is all you wanted to say it has already been said.
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I don't really understand how people still refer to evolution as just a theory. Read the latest works of any serious Biologist...
The vatacin has acknowledged evoluton as more than just a theory. And the supreme court has ruled against creationism. I don't see the problem here... If you have a problem with these words, then go read the word in The God Delusion by Richard Dawkins... Or if you're more interested in the evolution aspects... Read The Selfish Gene by him.
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Evolution occurs. This is a fact. I personally documented an instance of evolution. I have induced cells to evolve.
Evolution Definition: Evolution is the change in the inherited traits of a population from one generation to the next. These traits are the expression of genes that are copied and passed on to offspring during reproduction. Mutations in these genes can produce new or altered traits, resulting in heritable differences between organisms. New traits can also come from transfer of genes between populations, as in migration, or between species, in horizontal gene transfer. Evolution occurs when these heritable differences become more common or rare in a population, either non-randomly through natural selection or randomly through genetic drift.
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
I have my fingers crossed that this thread, will once and for all prove that God does or doesnt exist! Please guys, hurry up and come to a conclusion so I can know whether or not to be a religious person! AND so we can stop having the EXACT SAME debate on this forum bi-weekly!
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Hey, its a pretty important question...
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
pah. can't do biology without evolution. get serious please.
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I'd hope that if a doctor rejected germ theory that he would lose his job as well
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I completly understand the company here.
It's not about forcing beliefs on someone else, but if you're going to represent a company as a biologist you must work out of the belief that evolution is real. At least if thats their demands. Can't do that? Sorry you're not fit for the job.
It's basically like working as a priest if you're a non-believer. Not too bright so to say.
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well it *is* theory after all.
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On December 12 2007 10:23 liosama wrote:
well it *is* theory after all.
It is a scientific Theory.
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"Designer" IMO is a bullshit term.
Just say Aliens or God or Gods
Dont make up this bullshit about a "designer" since the designer would be far more complicated than us and then therefore would defy the idea of this "Designer" because of complexity.
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I kind of look like my parents!
Maybe it has to do with inheriting my parents' genetic information
Oh but that's too complicated. God probably just made it so offspring would randomly look like their parents
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Alright so the case here is that this man is a Christian and a Biologist. He gets fired for not believing in the Evolution theory when . Am i right? If so....
OK I'm going to say this right now. I dont want flames or arguements over what I am saying right now. But if you disagree then plz state it.
......I totally agree with what the man did. He shouldnt be forced to believe in anything he doesnt want to. He even agreed to use evolution concepts TO DO his job. I dont see any reason that he should be fired.....
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That is inaccurate, he refused to discuss the evolutionary implications and interpretations of the lab in co-authored publications.
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EPT
