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On August 06 2003 21:24 ObsoleteLogic wrote:
The founding fathers of our country weren't individuals? Gandhi, Joan of Arc, Henry VIII, Luther, Calvin, Muhammed, Constantine, Jesus, Moses?!?!? Please (: Any basis in character education is based around the strong examples of individuals who accomplished great things; society is reflective only of those individuals which it is comprised of.
im going to learn a lot more if i try something and fail than if someone tells me it doesnt work or i read something from 3000 years ago that failed.
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On August 06 2003 21:27 BigBalls wrote: Show nested quote +On August 06 2003 21:24 ObsoleteLogic wrote:
The founding fathers of our country weren't individuals? Gandhi, Joan of Arc, Henry VIII, Luther, Calvin, Muhammed, Constantine, Jesus, Moses?!?!? Please (: Any basis in character education is based around the strong examples of individuals who accomplished great things; society is reflective only of those individuals which it is comprised of. im going to learn a lot more if i try something and fail than if someone tells me it doesnt work or i read something from 3000 years ago that failed.
Exactly. People just can't work from the lives of others, assuming they were right, even if they were! Our moral basis is comprised off of our own experiences, and at best, guided by others, but not chosen by it
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how about all those eastern religions that have men at a certain age going out into a forest for weeks on end to find them true selves? people going to the edge of life, starving themselves, almost dying, just to find out what someone else who did it could tell them?
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Bigballs, I find it surprising that we're arguing the same point. Maybe I shouldn't
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On August 06 2003 21:29 BigBalls wrote:
how about all those eastern religions that have men at a certain age going out into a forest for weeks on end to find them true selves? people going to the edge of life, starving themselves, almost dying, just to find out what someone else who did it could tell them?
You ever read Siddhartha by Hermann Hesse?
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I really don't know where you're pulling this from. My life has been most inspired by others examples. And while its true that we can't understand the motives behind every action, we can understand their actions themselves. I mean, maybe Constantine was really just looking to A: get rich and B: get his mother off his back, but what he did put an end to thousands of brutal deaths, and terrible suffering in the Roman Empire. And when you give advice, it can be based off what other people have told you/written as well. I'm not just going off my limited personal experience, but that of my large family and the writings of philosophers and such.
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On August 06 2003 21:29 Vicious)Soul wrote:
Bigballs, I find it surprising that we're arguing the same point. Maybe I shouldn't
i think its safe to say this is the fastest growing thread in the history of TL (minus the play by play starleague stuff)
i type something and by the time i post it you have already posted the same thing :/
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go have a church wedding or whatever...
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Then we're just different people. It's just difficult for some to accept the ideals of others and everything learned must come from themselves
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On August 06 2003 21:30 BigBalls wrote: Show nested quote +On August 06 2003 21:29 Vicious)Soul wrote:
Bigballs, I find it surprising that we're arguing the same point. Maybe I shouldn't i think its safe to say this is the fastest growing thread in the history of TL (minus the play by play starleague stuff) i type something and by the time i post it you have already posted the same thing :/
hehe, sorry
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On August 06 2003 21:26 Vicious)Soul wrote:
Society is comprised of individuals, but it doesn't work backwards. The society created by the individuals isn't the individual, but that's the best we have to work off of. And on the indivudal level, it's not good enough
One piece of a puzzle with the wrong image can make the whole puzzle look bad; similarly, one bad person in a group makes the group, as a whole, depreciate in value. Not that the others are bad as individuals, but by association with the one corrupted individual... you get the picture.
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On August 06 2003 21:31 esk0 wrote:
go have a church wedding or whatever...
ooooh, i'm sorry to work off a sarcastic comment, but I'm engaged!!! Congrats to me! or just don't care...I don't really midn either way
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On August 06 2003 21:30 ObsoleteLogic wrote:
I really don't know where you're pulling this from. My life has been most inspired by others examples. And while its true that we can't understand the motives behind every action, we can understand their actions themselves. I mean, maybe Constantine was really just looking to A: get rich and B: get his mother off his back, but what he did put an end to thousands of brutal deaths, and terrible suffering in the Roman Empire. And when you give advice, it can be based off what other people have told you/written as well. I'm not just going off my limited personal experience, but that of my large family and the writings of philosophers and such.
then try and use augustine as an example. He had SO MUCH TROUBLE converting to christianity. He knew what he wanted, he knew what everyone told him, but he just had to find it out for himself. It was a self discovery, something everyone should go through.
Not advocating a religious passage for everyone, but people should discover things for themselves instead of having it passed onto them from others.
However, the side obsolete is arguing isnt bad either. "The only reason I have accomplished anything is because I stood on the shoulders of giants" - Newton...gotta run, id love to talk about this more but one of my coworkers is PISSED.
cya
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Ahhhh... trying to talk to poeple on aim at the same time as I'm arguing! I come back and there are 6 new posts ):
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On August 06 2003 21:33 ObsoleteLogic wrote: Show nested quote +On August 06 2003 21:26 Vicious)Soul wrote:
Society is comprised of individuals, but it doesn't work backwards. The society created by the individuals isn't the individual, but that's the best we have to work off of. And on the indivudal level, it's not good enough One piece of a puzzle with the wrong image can make the whole puzzle look bad; similarly, one bad person in a group makes the group, as a whole, depreciate in value. Not that the others are bad as individuals, but by association with the one corrupted individual... you get the picture.
And that's what makes it hard forindividuals to look off of even other individuals. That which we see of other individuals is the entire collection of who they are, and their morals on a thousand different things mingle indefinitely to become a whole.
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that was fucking hilariuos, you little pussy...hahaha
alcohol as a reason to _NOT_ get sex?
hahahahaha
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On August 06 2003 21:33 BigBalls wrote:
However, the side obsolete is arguing isnt bad either. "The only reason I have accomplished anything is because I stood on the shoulders of giants" - Newton
So true, we can't live with just one or the other. Like I said, the examples of others can serve as a guide, which we really need pretty often, but without experiencing things for ourselves, our understanding of the reasons behind our own morals is diminished
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United Kingdom10597 Posts
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Congrats Vicious.
For BB, when you get back, Augustine made the choice himself; of course. No one can choose anything for you (refer to my earlier point regarding your Will/Love). But he was influenced by others around him. Particularly Ambrose, whose sermons did a great deal to help Augustine question his lifestyle and beliefs.
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can u guys get any more nerdy beating the shit outta this thing?
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EPT
