Foreigners Suck #3 - Page 3

MaRiNe23

United States747 Posts

October 13 2007 03:24 GMT

#41

Wouldn't this thread go much more smoothly if we just asked REkrul who he would've picked for the line-up and be done with it?

DamageControL

United States4222 Posts

October 13 2007 03:44 GMT

#42

Who are the more deserving names?
Not criticism i just don't follow the gaming scene outside of korea and would like to know.

Aphelion

United States2720 Posts

October 13 2007 03:46 GMT

#43

On October 13 2007 11:46 GMer[TOp] wrote:
the only reason koreans are better, is bcus they wont put an english guy that can translate all the shit that goes on in proleague. The End.

LAWL ban now.

SonuvBob

Aiur21549 Posts

October 13 2007 03:46 GMT

#44

Quick question for Rek: Did Draco fall into the path of night? :p

Elwood Blues

United States261 Posts

October 13 2007 03:54 GMT

#45

So Rekrul thinks that some players are crap, no talents who suck...fair enough. If they're so horrible, shouldn't that be self evident? If you have to come out and shout about it, you're telling us that our individual perceptions aren't enough and that you absolutely want us to know that they suck...so you have an agenda here.

Personal grudge, middle school quarreling, whatever it is you have in mind, keep the bullshit out of the "foreign scene" because it's stacked down with this crap enough as it is. Believe it or not, some people other than the players have vested interests and money in a very slowly emerging esports scene in north america and europe so you'd just as well cut the crap and find yourself a place in it than inundate us all with crying about an event that doesn't even concern you.

Smuft

Canada318 Posts

October 13 2007 04:03 GMT

#46

I think the time for a foreign starcraft player to become a respectable pro gamer in korea has come and gone. I don't really know what estro is trying to accomplish with this. I guess it looks cool to have one foreigner on your team when the cameras look at you during pro league.

I looked at the list of players and for North America it's about as good as it gets. I think there are a couple players on that list who have a shot. The younger they are and the less time they have been known to the community, the better. The players on that list whose names you have seen around in tournaments for the last 3-4 years who haven't accomplished anything - well, they haven't accomplished anything for a reason.

Rekrul makes some good points but he's basically just being an elitist prick trying to stir up controversy. If you don't like what he has to say just ignore him or choose your words carefully this is his domain and he gets a lot of pleasure out of making you look stupid.

SK.Testie

Canada11084 Posts

October 13 2007 04:05 GMT

#47

What Rek is saying has nothing to do with a personal grudge. Don't lump his post into any sort of silly attack.

rushz0rz

Canada5300 Posts

October 13 2007 04:11 GMT

#48

Good post Rek.
Giyom was really only foreigner with a huge huge strategy and timing sense of the game. ElkY was really good as well.

I can't really say they don't deserve it because I'm no where near as good as the guys invited, but I really dont think they have a chance. Korean pro gamers and Koreans who dream to be pro gamer eat and play SC, that is all.

NonY

8748 Posts

October 13 2007 04:12 GMT

#49

Ya I agree with Smuft. Although I think it's harder to spot talent than people realize. Even if someone has been on the scene forever and not accomplished shit, you never know how good he'll be once he's getting in large amounts of quality practice. Think of any random sports analogy or whatever. People can play something casually for years and only begin to shine when they're put with the right people and the right environment.

But in any case, foreigners are being thrown a bone and everyone should be happy. I think someone organizing the tourney said estro isn't even expecting a potential permanent member. It's much more promotional than a talent search.

LOcDowN

United States1014 Posts

October 13 2007 04:15 GMT

#50

Just to make it clear, I'm in favor of no one here. With that said, Artosis I believe you are a great gamer but I also believe your perception is wrong. IF you tell me you play starcraft to have fun, then I would agree with you. But if you truly believe mass practice and a hard work ethic is greater than innate ability you are wrong. I'm sorry, but you are fighting an uphill battle if you believe this to be true. Please just play for fun, there is no reason approaching Starcraft with anything else in mind if you do not have true innate ability. Rekrul might come off as an asshole, but I believe there is some truth in what he says. I support whatever action you take in order to improve your game as long as it's to have fun. Just don't think that practice > innate ability. Good business men and successful people work on their strength first, while suppressing and working on their weak sides in a stead pace. Don't play this game besides anything else but to have fun.

IdrA

United States11541 Posts

October 13 2007 04:23 GMT

#51

On October 13 2007 13:15 LOcDowN wrote:
Please just play for fun, there is no reason approaching Starcraft with anything else in mind if you do not have true innate ability.

what are you talking about. every good player since grrr... has had to practice his ass off to get where he is. 'natural talent' is near meaningless, given enough quality practice anyone can have 300 apm and anyone with a brain can play competently in terms of strategy. innate ability is what sets the nadas and the saviors apart(although without lots and lots of practice they would be nothing too). but below that level, everything is practice.

thats why the whole debate over who deserves a spot in korea is pretty meaningless. whoever goes there is going to be massively outclassed when they arrive, and if they are willing to dedicate themselves they will be very, very good given a few months of practice.
its far more important to get a dedicated player who could deal with the 10 hours a day of forced practice and the environment than it is to get someone with 'natural talent'

LOcDowN

United States1014 Posts

October 13 2007 04:30 GMT

#52

Yes mass practicing is required. But I still stand by the fact innate ability + mass practice is greater than anyone who believe he can achieve greatness with just sheer mass practice (without innate ability). It makes perfect sense. You are fighting a loss battle if you want to achieve "greatness". Play for fun, mass practice to become better if you want, but in the end you are simply playing fun and achieving what you've dreamed of doing one day. Successful people work on their strength with mass practice in life, not what they're mediocre at. That's all I'm saying.

Elwood Blues

United States261 Posts

October 13 2007 04:30 GMT

#53

Well, I'm wrong in lashing a little at Rekrul, I haven't followed these players or the circumstances at all, I retract anything said regarding that and apologize for jumping in like that, that's my bad.

The real point I'm trying to make, more so that people are at least aware than anything, is that there ARE large corporate entities, one of which I'm affiliated with, in the US and perhaps elsewhere, that understand that there's money in marketing in Korean esports, the emerging Chinese scene, and of course anywhere else a scene can be profitably established. Considering the rampancy of piracy and seemingly fruitless attempts at launching consoles and such in certain parts of Asia, there are middlemen out there missing out on massive gaming populaces. Add to that the emergence of platforms like Steam, and you have a lot of killed potential. Subscription and PC Bang based client models, and also the marketing and hype surrounding eSports and the associated PC games, offer potential revenue that bypass these relatively new scenes and keep the ball rolling in foreign (read: non-Asian) investment in China and potentially elsewhere.

You never know who's going to get pitched an opportunity to play a major role in the first wave of either attempts at significant non Korean esports sponsorship or an advising role in relations between North American companies and Korean/Chinese gaming culture. The point of my friendly reminder is that with the powers that be who pull the strings and make things happen at the end of the day, the whole thing has nothing to do with the viability of non-Korean progamers and their skill level, but rather the bottom line: money. That means marketability, taking advantage of the novelty of non-Koreans, and possibly even sponsoring some of your big league tourneys and such. Where a player's from, as opposed to how skilled they are, has everything to do with corporate interests, for better or worse. It's not a matter of if but when the money moves outside the borders of South Korea, and though that time could just as well be 5 years from now as next year, those who maintained a professional attitude might just come out the richer for it.

Thanks for listening and sorry for stepping on anyone's better informed toes earlier >_>

rei

United States3593 Posts

October 13 2007 04:41 GMT

#54

I say let's do a rek vs artosis $50 bet match to settle this

We Are Here

Australia1810 Posts

October 13 2007 04:45 GMT

#55

wow how bitter

Nocturne

Korea (South)155 Posts

October 13 2007 04:59 GMT

#56

sigh..

Pseudo_Utopia

Canada827 Posts

October 13 2007 05:07 GMT

#57

Relax Rek, not all of us judge themselves by the standards of korean pros. I'm sure that all the known progamers have played so many more hours than top foreigners, you know, that really helps them a lot. It's quite a bit easier to massgame (read:10h+ per day) when you live in a culture that rewards and respects you for it. That being said, of course the skill gap is large. But man, if that's all you wanted to say, why the hell did you have to go and say it like that? I don't know what kind of power trip you're having on this forum (because you lived with pros? because you're a tl.net old-timer? because you have power on the forums?), but I doubt it's wowing more people than it's annoying. I'm certainly one of the latter.

And just so you know, I think I'm a pretty good player. Especially for the amount of hours I spent on the game. Give Goodfriend or some other average progamer as few hours as I played, and I don't think he'd be that much better than me. Stop chastising the people who want in on the eSports culture. You're just coming off as bitter and power-tripping.

(I'm schism[light] btw if you didn't know)