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On March 19 2018 01:44 art_of_turtle wrote:
Here is a list of some of the best NA Players and SA Players since you seem to think that you can get away from giving criticism without any backbone to your post.
[NA] Sero T, Aegyo Z , Castle P, Michael Z, Dragon P ZVP, Jaeyun Z, Mr.Plow Z, Seriousity P, Faust Z, Babo Z, Lumire Z, Demurity T. (was watching cadenza stream sorry)
[SA] Terror T, Castro Z, Ultra T, Dandy T, Ivionix P, Dienmax P, Zety Z, Wapool P, TerranBoy T, Yugox P.
After that they kinda fall into lower, to casual players.
Thx for including me
On March 19 2018 01:50 EndingLife wrote:Castle, Seriosity, Faust, Lumire and Cadenza included in top NA? Replace them with Hawk, TT1, Sugo; Beast and myself(even if not active  ) and you'll have a fairly accurate list.
Thx for not excluding me
/s
Just enjoy events as they are, not how they should be. TBH, idk why Beast is salty, seems kinda trollish cus he's not super active lol
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On March 19 2018 16:18 Golgotha wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2018 12:20 iNcontroL wrote:On March 19 2018 12:08 art_of_turtle wrote:On March 19 2018 11:45 iNcontroL wrote:
Every thread where something with money is announced for bw goes like this. A lot of you are truly horribly annoying people. It’s sad though because it actually impacts the opportunities for this scene. Thanks for the pep talk champ, and the generalization of "A lot of you" being conisdered as "truly horribly annoying people." I'm sure your words weigh much on those who enjoyed today's cast. If I may also point out that only 42 different users posted. And that most of the negative posts are from the guy with 8 posts, the guy who got banned, and the SC2 "high standing members" telling us that as a whole community based upon this thread is the very reason we don't have opportunities on this scene. The honest thing is I just love brood war for the game it is, and doubtless of the money pumped into this scene will never change my opinion of it. What will really hurt us is if a high standing member in a larger community came down on the community that first started their community. Nevermind that we do have trolls who create accounts for the self serving purpose of riling up a small community of very devoted players to their game. If you think it’s just a few people in this one thread dunno what to tell you man. Be as defensive as you want.. it’s been a shit show for awhile. Lots of content creators have been driven out and I’m tired of it. But turtle is right. It's always just a few trolls or people who are not regulars. Most folks on here are reasonable and love the game and want it to do well. However, I've seen a pattern where trolls flock whenever there is a slimmer of controversy or bad news. But these people either have extremely low post counts and/or do not regularly frequent the bw forums. They just come in to take their jab and are never seen again. Take this thread for example. Look at the idiot who got banned and the bstulls kid. They are nobodies with new accounts. It's unfair to say that these people are indicative of the general bw community. They are a minority. It's just that since the community is very small, the minority can rear its ugly head more than not. The event was fun and we let the casters know. Turtle was there too, helping people out. So were a bunch of the regulars.
Very well said.
I don't post a lot here but I follow BW pretty religiously, and I watched & enjoyed the stream. Naturally we all have our favourite players that we would have liked to see in the event -- I for one was hoping that Hawk would get a match -- but I do not think the people shitting on it at the start of the thread are representative of the wider Brood War community.
Everyone who truly cares about this game would be wise to show their support for people/organizations that are willing to host tournaments like this with real prizes. That doesn't mean we can't be critical, or suggest a different tournament structure...but we should do it in a less shitty way.
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Great to have events like this. I'm very happy that twitch or someone wants to give money for SC:BW. Maybe thanks to this events in future we will have showmatches with truly best players, not friendly-choosed.
For now this event, ESL, Zotac, Holiday bash, etc are keeping BW alive in "sponsors eyes", so dont hate it people if you want to see this scene strong again !
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
On March 19 2018 16:18 Golgotha wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2018 12:20 iNcontroL wrote:On March 19 2018 12:08 art_of_turtle wrote:On March 19 2018 11:45 iNcontroL wrote:
Every thread where something with money is announced for bw goes like this. A lot of you are truly horribly annoying people. It’s sad though because it actually impacts the opportunities for this scene. Thanks for the pep talk champ, and the generalization of "A lot of you" being conisdered as "truly horribly annoying people." I'm sure your words weigh much on those who enjoyed today's cast. If I may also point out that only 42 different users posted. And that most of the negative posts are from the guy with 8 posts, the guy who got banned, and the SC2 "high standing members" telling us that as a whole community based upon this thread is the very reason we don't have opportunities on this scene. The honest thing is I just love brood war for the game it is, and doubtless of the money pumped into this scene will never change my opinion of it. What will really hurt us is if a high standing member in a larger community came down on the community that first started their community. Nevermind that we do have trolls who create accounts for the self serving purpose of riling up a small community of very devoted players to their game. If you think it’s just a few people in this one thread dunno what to tell you man. Be as defensive as you want.. it’s been a shit show for awhile. Lots of content creators have been driven out and I’m tired of it. But turtle is right. It's always just a few trolls or people who are not regulars. Most folks on here are reasonable and love the game and want it to do well. However, I've seen a pattern where trolls flock whenever there is a slimmer of controversy or bad news. But these people either have extremely low post counts and/or do not regularly frequent the bw forums. They just come in to take their jab and are never seen again. Take this thread for example. Look at the idiot who got banned and the bstulls kid. They are nobodies with new accounts. It's unfair to say that these people are indicative of the general bw community. They are a minority. It's just that since the community is very small, the minority can rear its ugly head more than not. The event was fun and we let the casters know. Turtle was there too, helping people out. So were a bunch of the regulars.
No, man. Like, I am not going to sit here and post numbers or something if you need that? I'm telling you.. as someone who has been involved in a lot of the recent BW events that had money around them AND as someone who was streaming BW nearly every day when SC:R came out up until a couple months ago I can tell you this is not an issue you get to brush off to a "few low post trolls." But like I said.. you can be defensive and deny it or you can get proactive. Report troll posts. Get them banned. Encourage positivity. Sitting here and being like "nah man, the BW community is really positive and supportive" while literally posting in a thread that Schamtoo once again had a hand in and is literally a content producer that stopped working in this space because of all the negativity... is hilarious.
Anyways, I already know the replies to my post. "No! It's not that bad." Or some personal attack against me etc etc. If what I say wrankles you just get off your ass and recognize it and start asking that the bad apples get dealt with. Whether you like it or not or want to try and say "it's just as bad in SC2" the fact of the matter is it isn't. You guys have a reputation for being impossible to please and really incessant about your hipster desires and how everyone betrayed you and is making a "cash grab" to get back into the scene (LOL).
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On March 20 2018 00:32 iNcontroL wrote:
No, man. Like, I am not going to sit here and post numbers or something if you need that? I'm telling you.. as someone who has been involved in a lot of the recent BW events that had money around them AND as someone who was streaming BW nearly every day when SC:R came out up until a couple months ago I can tell you this is not an issue you get to brush off to a "few low post trolls." But like I said.. you can be defensive and deny it or you can get proactive. Report troll posts. Get them banned. Encourage positivity. Sitting here and being like "nah man, the BW community is really positive and supportive" while literally posting in a thread that Schamtoo once again had a hand in and is literally a content producer that stopped working in this space because of all the negativity... is hilarious.
This thread is basically the summation of one person who has no manners and everyone else reprimanding him for it and you're preaching about how toxic our community is?
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On March 20 2018 00:59 SCC-Faust wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2018 00:32 iNcontroL wrote:
No, man. Like, I am not going to sit here and post numbers or something if you need that? I'm telling you.. as someone who has been involved in a lot of the recent BW events that had money around them AND as someone who was streaming BW nearly every day when SC:R came out up until a couple months ago I can tell you this is not an issue you get to brush off to a "few low post trolls." But like I said.. you can be defensive and deny it or you can get proactive. Report troll posts. Get them banned. Encourage positivity. Sitting here and being like "nah man, the BW community is really positive and supportive" while literally posting in a thread that Schamtoo once again had a hand in and is literally a content producer that stopped working in this space because of all the negativity... is hilarious.
This thread is basically the summation of one person who has no manners and everyone else reprimanding him for it and you're preaching about how toxic our community is?
Leave the thread as it is, and let's focus on what truly matters. The highlights of this good invitational.
+ Show Spoiler +https://clips.twitch.tv/LazyBrainyIguanaOptimizePrime
+ Show Spoiler +https://clips.twitch.tv/EvilFragileMacaroniSMOrc
+ Show Spoiler +https://clips.twitch.tv/MoistPowerfulTermitePhilosoraptor
+ Show Spoiler +https://clips.twitch.tv/EnchantingNiceTardigradeGingerPower
+ Show Spoiler +https://clips.twitch.tv/SpunkyMistyHerbsBrainSlug
+ Show Spoiler +https://clips.twitch.tv/ReliableLachrymoseEyeballMoreCowbell
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On March 19 2018 11:45 iNcontroL wrote:
as someone who has been involved in a lot of the recent BW events that had money around them AND as someone who was streaming BW nearly every day when SC:R came out up until a couple months ago
You are involved in a lot of recent BW events that have money around them only because you are in the ' IN ' crowd, the same reason the majority of the players were there in the previous events, not for any other reason.
I can tell you this is not an issue you get to brush off to a "few low post trolls." But like I said.. you can be defensive and deny it or you can get proactive. Report troll posts. Get them banned. Encourage positivity. Sitting here and being like "nah man, the BW community is really positive and supportive" while literally posting in a thread that Schamtoo once again had a hand in and is literally a content producer that stopped working in this space because of all the negativity... is hilarious.
The BW Foreign scene is full of positivity, and also full of negativity because of soothsayers like you and other people who used to play BW, then went to SC2, and came back speaking in absolutes...the truth is that everything you say isn't an absolute, and everything / everyone in the BW foreign scene isn't a negative nancy, it is pretty obvious as to why people would get upset about these IN CROWD BW events, where better / more ample / active players were not chosen or even given a chance to compete, why you may ask? BECAUSE THEY WERE NOT IN THE IN CROWD, that you are in, and that you kids try so hard to control.
Anyways, I already know the replies to my post. "No! It's not that bad." Or some personal attack against me etc etc. If what I say wrankles you just get off your ass and recognize it and start asking that the bad apples get dealt with. Whether you like it or not or want to try and say "it's just as bad in SC2" the fact of the matter is it isn't. You guys have a reputation for being impossible to please and really incessant about your hipster desires and how everyone betrayed you and is making a "cash grab" to get back into the scene (LOL).
The BM is inherently a lot worse in SC2 than it is in BW, and people complain a lot more in the BW Foreign scene as of late because nearly all of these big cash prize events that you have a hand in almost every time, there are no qualifiers, no opportunity for the ACTUAL top foreigners / ACTUAL top NA players to potentially compete in, no voting systems, etc.
It is a bunch of people that have / had a big influence on the scene in the past, playing together, and keeping it within an inner circle, similar to a Monopoly.
So when a bunch of players get upset that they were not even given an opportunity to fight for this money, fame and glory, as one of the ' TOP NA PLAYERS', rather the players were hand picked, 100% biased, to keep the inner circle happy, can you begin to understand why now there are so many people upset with how you and your in crowd choose to run the systems for these big cash events?
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Okay nevermind, I change my opinion. Our community is fucked.
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Don't even bother GGzerg. Just be happy that some poor sap is willing to poor money into the bw scene, that is completely inaccessible to you or any current top foreigner (bonyth, eonzerg, trutacz, koget, sziky, dewalt,...) for that matter. Why can't you just be happy?
Also why can you just be happy that we're now getting tournaments that spend 2750 dollars on 4 matches (announced the day before by a player), instead of epic tournaments like TLS with major qualifiers and 20 legacy cups preceding it, to build up hype and deliver a consistent tournament experience to players and viewers alike.
It's someone else's money, I don't care, I'm just hoping one day the realization will come that it could be spend better à la TLS.
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While I loved the cast and enjoyed the games played, there were three big issues that I saw with Twitch Rivals yesterday. After all, someone has to fight for and defend the deserving players.
1) I think there were more deserving players than KawaiiRice, as he isn't active and doesn't stream. Wasn't it called
"Twitch Rivals"? I think Aegyo or someone else relevant and active deserved to play.
2) Advertising/announcement. Enough said...
3) Michael/Dragon clearly should have been the 1k match, as they were 1st/2nd place in the last Zotac tourney and have showed better results than JY/Nyoken as of recent, or ever... (Minus WCG back in the day)
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I think there are valid claims being made on both sides of this discussion. It is likely that iNcontrol is aware of some things that have happened/are happening behind the scenes that most of us here are not privy to. No doubt we should take his comments into consideration, and be more proactive about showing love to those who are willing to invest in this scene. It is important that we prevent the vocal minority of trolls and dickheads from dominating the discussion. iNc has been a pillar of the community for many years (imo) and we should not so quickly dismiss what he's saying here.
Conversely, I also think it is fair to criticize the way that players are selected for events like this. I would suggest that we can both show our support for things like this while also voicing legitimate concerns about how invitationals are run. The best players should be rewarded with opportunities and exposure.
I don't know though, maybe this is a dumb comment... In any case, I love this game and it makes me really happy to see that people are still willing to invest their time, energy and even money into this scene. We should do whatever we can to ensure that that never changes.
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On March 20 2018 00:32 iNcontroL wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2018 16:18 Golgotha wrote:On March 19 2018 12:20 iNcontroL wrote:On March 19 2018 12:08 art_of_turtle wrote:On March 19 2018 11:45 iNcontroL wrote:
Every thread where something with money is announced for bw goes like this. A lot of you are truly horribly annoying people. It’s sad though because it actually impacts the opportunities for this scene. Thanks for the pep talk champ, and the generalization of "A lot of you" being conisdered as "truly horribly annoying people." I'm sure your words weigh much on those who enjoyed today's cast. If I may also point out that only 42 different users posted. And that most of the negative posts are from the guy with 8 posts, the guy who got banned, and the SC2 "high standing members" telling us that as a whole community based upon this thread is the very reason we don't have opportunities on this scene. The honest thing is I just love brood war for the game it is, and doubtless of the money pumped into this scene will never change my opinion of it. What will really hurt us is if a high standing member in a larger community came down on the community that first started their community. Nevermind that we do have trolls who create accounts for the self serving purpose of riling up a small community of very devoted players to their game. If you think it’s just a few people in this one thread dunno what to tell you man. Be as defensive as you want.. it’s been a shit show for awhile. Lots of content creators have been driven out and I’m tired of it. But turtle is right. It's always just a few trolls or people who are not regulars. Most folks on here are reasonable and love the game and want it to do well. However, I've seen a pattern where trolls flock whenever there is a slimmer of controversy or bad news. But these people either have extremely low post counts and/or do not regularly frequent the bw forums. They just come in to take their jab and are never seen again. Take this thread for example. Look at the idiot who got banned and the bstulls kid. They are nobodies with new accounts. It's unfair to say that these people are indicative of the general bw community. They are a minority. It's just that since the community is very small, the minority can rear its ugly head more than not. The event was fun and we let the casters know. Turtle was there too, helping people out. So were a bunch of the regulars. No, man. Like, I am not going to sit here and post numbers or something if you need that? I'm telling you.. as someone who has been involved in a lot of the recent BW events that had money around them AND as someone who was streaming BW nearly every day when SC:R came out up until a couple months ago I can tell you this is not an issue you get to brush off to a "few low post trolls." But like I said.. you can be defensive and deny it or you can get proactive. Report troll posts. Get them banned. Encourage positivity. Sitting here and being like "nah man, the BW community is really positive and supportive" while literally posting in a thread that Schamtoo once again had a hand in and is literally a content producer that stopped working in this space because of all the negativity... is hilarious. Anyways, I already know the replies to my post. "No! It's not that bad." Or some personal attack against me etc etc. If what I say wrankles you just get off your ass and recognize it and start asking that the bad apples get dealt with. Whether you like it or not or want to try and say "it's just as bad in SC2" the fact of the matter is it isn't. You guys have a reputation for being impossible to please and really incessant about your hipster desires and how everyone betrayed you and is making a "cash grab" to get back into the scene (LOL).
Ok, we get that you don't like us and that's fair. Please do not feel obligated to post in BW forums.
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This forum is so damn tame compared to other gaming communities that it's beyond ridiculous to try and label it as "toxic"
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On March 20 2018 01:10 art_of_turtle wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2018 00:59 SCC-Faust wrote:On March 20 2018 00:32 iNcontroL wrote:
No, man. Like, I am not going to sit here and post numbers or something if you need that? I'm telling you.. as someone who has been involved in a lot of the recent BW events that had money around them AND as someone who was streaming BW nearly every day when SC:R came out up until a couple months ago I can tell you this is not an issue you get to brush off to a "few low post trolls." But like I said.. you can be defensive and deny it or you can get proactive. Report troll posts. Get them banned. Encourage positivity. Sitting here and being like "nah man, the BW community is really positive and supportive" while literally posting in a thread that Schamtoo once again had a hand in and is literally a content producer that stopped working in this space because of all the negativity... is hilarious.
This thread is basically the summation of one person who has no manners and everyone else reprimanding him for it and you're preaching about how toxic our community is? + Show Spoiler +https://clips.twitch.tv/EvilFragileMacaroniSMOrc
lol that totally looked like he parasited the barracks, the tank just teleported away
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TLADT24920 Posts
Cmon guys, let's play nice! Critique has its place in general so long as it's on point and reasonable.
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On March 20 2018 02:24 BigFan wrote:
Cmon guys, let's play nice! Critique has its place in general so long as it's on point and reasonable.
Please point out the critiques in this thread that are not on point and reasonable excluding the guy who was banned, and the guy who has less then 10 posts. If the criteria is set, then maybe a reasonable discussion can continue. As far as I am concerned the majority of posters have posted valid points and critiques, as well engaging in the conversation.
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TLADT24920 Posts
On March 20 2018 02:49 art_of_turtle wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2018 02:24 BigFan wrote:
Cmon guys, let's play nice! Critique has its place in general so long as it's on point and reasonable. Please point out the critiques in this thread that are not on point and reasonable excluding the guy who was banned, and the guy who has less then 10 posts. If the criteria is set, then maybe a reasonable discussion can continue. As far as I am concerned the majority of posters have posted valid points and critiques, as well engaging in the conversation.
You realize that I banned him, right? Also, this comment wasn't directed at you so don't take it personally, was just a general comment to prevent a potential thread meltdown with some of the more recent comments.
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Tnx SchAmToo! Great matches and great casting.
ZombieGrub was a really nice addition to casting team. You two could make Tastosis run for their money!
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Okay so I wanna address some stuff here that i haven't seen mentioned yet. I do believe a lot of criticisms have validity, but I feel like most people who are upset are missing some serious perspective.
1) To address the in group favoritism, I can see how a lot of people might feel that this is an issue. However, there are a number of reasons why I think you're wrong. Firstly, a lot of people who feel they should have been included (jaehoon, sugo, etc.) fail to realize that in order to get selected for events, you kinda gotta engage the people who plan them. I'm not saying you have to be besties, but for example, I still have no idea who sugo is and where jaehoon has been for the better part of 4-5 months. BW doesn't have an established competitive circuit to help shine a light on who is still playing and who just came back to sc and who's kicking ass in super secret invite only gosu practice seshes. the team organizing this event was basically machine, schamtoo, and myself (to a more minor extent).
2) I am not sure why the event was americas only, but I suspect technical issues like lag could have been a consideration. additionally, maybe the intention was to specifically target na, as our scene is the deadest as far as reigons go.
3) as awesome as having open qualifiers and huge awesome tours leading up to these events would be, brood war literally doesnt have enough people in places like twitch who would give enough of a shit to organize and sponsor and officiate and advertise and produce such an intensive undertaking. I think the hope for these events is to just bring attention and excitement to sc in the hopes that it might help resuscitate our otherwise dead game.
4) I've got a bit more but my Lunch is over so later tonight i guess
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EPT
