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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
On March 20 2018 01:58 Immaterial wrote:
I think there are valid claims being made on both sides of this discussion. It is likely that iNcontrol is aware of some things that have happened/are happening behind the scenes that most of us here are not privy to. No doubt we should take his comments into consideration, and be more proactive about showing love to those who are willing to invest in this scene. It is important that we prevent the vocal minority of trolls and dickheads from dominating the discussion. iNc has been a pillar of the community for many years (imo) and we should not so quickly dismiss what he's saying here.
Conversely, I also think it is fair to criticize the way that players are selected for events like this. I would suggest that we can both show our support for things like this while also voicing legitimate concerns about how invitationals are run. The best players should be rewarded with opportunities and exposure.
I don't know though, maybe this is a dumb comment... In any case, I love this game and it makes me really happy to see that people are still willing to invest their time, energy and even money into this scene. We should do whatever we can to ensure that that never changes.
Thank you. Completely fair and reasonable. Criticizing is fine. The level people take it and how it is in EVERY BW THREAD that has any money/invites at all is insane.
I love this idea though that for some reason people think I gain anything by saying what I do? Like, I don't even post on TL but when I do it's to say something along the lines of "you guys are doing something bad" and people are like "YOU ARE JUST TRYING TO CAUSE HARM!" what? I can convincingly tell you I am having the hardest time getting Blizzard motivated to do anything for SC:R and a huge part of that is the community is toxic and negative about everything. You want to think I am making that up? Why? What do I get out of making that up? What precedent is there for that? Have I been known to make shit up and talk about it publicly?
Dunno man.You can either be a guy who wants to shout me down and assume I don't know what I am talking about or.. you could take a 20 year veteran of the scene's words into account. It's a shame but it's no hair off my back. Going to continue to do what I do with or without people like ggzerg etc.
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On March 20 2018 04:08 docholiday_tv wrote:
Okay so I wanna address some stuff here that i haven't seen mentioned yet. I do believe a lot of criticisms have validity, but I feel like most people who are upset are missing some serious perspective.
1) To address the in group favoritism, I can see how a lot of people might feel that this is an issue. However, there are a number of reasons why I think you're wrong. Firstly, a lot of people who feel they should have been included (jaehoon, sugo, etc.) fail to realize that in order to get selected for events, you kinda gotta engage the people who plan them. I'm not saying you have to be besties, but for example, I still have no idea who sugo is.
This is not a valid argument or point even, you shouldn't have to go out of your way as a player and find someone considerably in this ' in ' crowd and tweet @ them, email them, PM them, DM them, stalk them essentially to be able to hopefully engage with them, build a rapport with them, and then hopefully they will pull some strings for you to get you into the event.
That is absurd, that is favoritism, that is a monopoly essentially. It is not efficient, fair, or equal to all players who bust their asses practicing instead of kissing ass and sucking up to people who have the power to pull the strings to make these sorts of things happen.
Sure, spilling pointless $ into the scene is great, it attracts attention, it gives players $, it hopefully causes it to flourish and grow at a more exponential level.
But this is why there are Qualifiers, Voting systems, etc.
Something like TLS for example, a good system.
P.S. - DocHoliday you probably don't know who SuGo for the same reason you think players need to engage with event hosters to get invited to private in crowd events.
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On March 20 2018 04:27 iNcontroL wrote:
Going to continue to do what I do with or without people like ggzerg etc.
I guess I did make this into sort of a personal attack, which it wasn't and I apologize it if seems that way, me and you have had beef in the past for w/e reason I don't really care as it was so far in the past. I personally think you are one of the best casters i've seen, a lot of energy / charisma, and a really awesome personality, also hilarious jokes.
I have even tweeted you recently about how awesome I thought your event hosting / casting was in the previous events you did, although that doesn't change the fact that there is obvious favoritism / in crowd monopoly like event hosting going on. It wasn't meant to be a personal attack though, my apologies.
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@Ggzerg dude i think you are super right about how things SHOULD be, but you have to realize the current realities that are faced by organizers . as stated, it isn't like twitch intentionally excluded people, they just aren't omniscient. the scene is pretty nebulous. You are certainly correct that in an ideal world, things would go that way, but until then it's like 3 passionate ass people doing their best to religitimize SC so we can get to that point.
also I don't know sugo cuz I've basically been engaged with the community for a little under a year, and as stated am not in fact omniscient
oh and for the record I don't mean to imply you even need to talk with organizers. just get yourself noticed SOMEHOW. Stream, create YouTube content, organize an event, just be somewhere where you can actually be seen.
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@everyone
There's no "Best in NA" player right now. I feel like anyone can beat anyone. There are so many players in NA that are considered "good" or who consider themselves to be "good" that you could make a kilometer-long list of names. The problem with doing that is that certain players are active, and others are inactive. Who's active now? Sero, Ty2, Dragon, Michael, Nyoken, etc. I know a lot of people will go "Well, I'm active!!!" and that's fine and dandy and all, but where are these people when it comes to tournaments?
So if Beast and SuGo think they're top players, they should join Schamtoo's Have At You or something.
On March 20 2018 00:32 iNcontroL wrote:
I'm telling you.. as someone who has been involved in a lot of the recent BW events that had money around them
You're taking a situation that doesn't have anything to do with you, and making it about you and how you didn't appreciate how the Holiday Bash was criticized. Well, I'm sorry that people have opinions and that you don't like them. But popping up once every few months to go "Shame on all of you! This community has so much toxicity!" doesn't do anything for anybody. What more did you want us to do, exactly? The majority of the posters told Beast to stfu in the most polite way possible and his account got nuked. For you to make a blanket statement about the whole community is insulting to everyone who works hard to make the tournaments happen, to all the fans, and to everyone who is positive.
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Guys if you want the scene to be less of an in-crowd type of thing, just stop supporting them until it changes completely. Stop tuning in. The only reason they get these money deals is because the entity or entities sponsoring the events think that the in-crowd has influence over the masses. Continuing to support them will only reinforce that idea and provide incentive for the sponsors to continue funneling money towards the same group of players. If you want it to be less in-crowd oriented, don't support it until everything is open qualification. This means don't talk about them, don't bump their threads(bury them by bumping others) and continue to promote the idea of open qualification/equal opportunity/speaking against invitationals. Just remember, these players are only getting these deals because you continue to watch them.
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Meh, hasn't the digression reached a point now where it's better suited via PMs rather than a continued string of back and forth posts from people who'll probably never agree?
Some people love the event, some people hate the event and some people think it's not ideal but great nonetheless. For elaboration, view pages 1-6.
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
On March 20 2018 05:08 ninazerg wrote:@everyone There's no "Best in NA" player right now. I feel like anyone can beat anyone. There are so many players in NA that are considered "good" or who consider themselves to be "good" that you could make a kilometer-long list of names. The problem with doing that is that certain players are active, and others are inactive. Who's active now? Sero, Ty2, Dragon, Michael, Nyoken, etc. I know a lot of people will go " Well, I'm active!!!" and that's fine and dandy and all, but where are these people when it comes to tournaments? So if Beast and SuGo think they're top players, they should join Schamtoo's Have At You or something. Show nested quote +On March 20 2018 00:32 iNcontroL wrote:
I'm telling you.. as someone who has been involved in a lot of the recent BW events that had money around them
You're taking a situation that doesn't have anything to do with you, and making it about you and how you didn't appreciate how the Holiday Bash was criticized. Well, I'm sorry that people have opinions and that you don't like them. But popping up once every few months to go "Shame on all of you! This community has so much toxicity!" doesn't do anything for anybody. What more did you want us to do, exactly? The majority of the posters told Beast to stfu in the most polite way possible and his account got nuked. For you to make a blanket statement about the whole community is insulting to everyone who works hard to make the tournaments happen, to all the fans, and to everyone who is positive.
Yeah man.. you nailed it. That is all I'm doing and I have no good intentions. K
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On March 20 2018 04:08 docholiday_tv wrote:
and where jaehoon has been for the better part of 4-5 months.
4) I've got a bit more but my Lunch is over so later tonight i guess
Just an FYI jaehoon beat eonzerg in SKTL. random fact
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On March 20 2018 05:27 iNcontroL wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2018 05:08 ninazerg wrote:@everyone There's no "Best in NA" player right now. I feel like anyone can beat anyone. There are so many players in NA that are considered "good" or who consider themselves to be "good" that you could make a kilometer-long list of names. The problem with doing that is that certain players are active, and others are inactive. Who's active now? Sero, Ty2, Dragon, Michael, Nyoken, etc. I know a lot of people will go " Well, I'm active!!!" and that's fine and dandy and all, but where are these people when it comes to tournaments? So if Beast and SuGo think they're top players, they should join Schamtoo's Have At You or something. On March 20 2018 00:32 iNcontroL wrote:
I'm telling you.. as someone who has been involved in a lot of the recent BW events that had money around them
You're taking a situation that doesn't have anything to do with you, and making it about you and how you didn't appreciate how the Holiday Bash was criticized. Well, I'm sorry that people have opinions and that you don't like them. But popping up once every few months to go "Shame on all of you! This community has so much toxicity!" doesn't do anything for anybody. What more did you want us to do, exactly? The majority of the posters told Beast to stfu in the most polite way possible and his account got nuked. For you to make a blanket statement about the whole community is insulting to everyone who works hard to make the tournaments happen, to all the fans, and to everyone who is positive. Yeah man.. you nailed it. That is all I'm doing and I have no good intentions. K
Well, I'll be looking forward to you popping in a few months from now to let us know how toxic we all are in another thread.
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On March 20 2018 05:27 iNcontroL wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2018 05:08 ninazerg wrote:@everyone There's no "Best in NA" player right now. I feel like anyone can beat anyone. There are so many players in NA that are considered "good" or who consider themselves to be "good" that you could make a kilometer-long list of names. The problem with doing that is that certain players are active, and others are inactive. Who's active now? Sero, Ty2, Dragon, Michael, Nyoken, etc. I know a lot of people will go " Well, I'm active!!!" and that's fine and dandy and all, but where are these people when it comes to tournaments? So if Beast and SuGo think they're top players, they should join Schamtoo's Have At You or something. On March 20 2018 00:32 iNcontroL wrote:
I'm telling you.. as someone who has been involved in a lot of the recent BW events that had money around them
You're taking a situation that doesn't have anything to do with you, and making it about you and how you didn't appreciate how the Holiday Bash was criticized. Well, I'm sorry that people have opinions and that you don't like them. But popping up once every few months to go "Shame on all of you! This community has so much toxicity!" doesn't do anything for anybody. What more did you want us to do, exactly? The majority of the posters told Beast to stfu in the most polite way possible and his account got nuked. For you to make a blanket statement about the whole community is insulting to everyone who works hard to make the tournaments happen, to all the fans, and to everyone who is positive. Yeah man.. you nailed it. That is all I'm doing and I have no good intentions. K
You are the most ridiculous figure I have seen in a while with a really crazy need to push your unimportant and uninformed opinions in threads while handing out insults randomly, most times hitting people known to exactly doing the opposite of what you accuse them of. Jesus Christ, get your shit together and stop coming in here if you can only sound like a broken record.
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On March 20 2018 05:30 Gorgonoth wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2018 04:08 docholiday_tv wrote:
and where jaehoon has been for the better part of 4-5 months.
4) I've got a bit more but my Lunch is over so later tonight i guess Just an FYI jaehoon beat eonzerg in SKTL. random fact
you telling me this no name guy Nas.beast is crying cuz he wasnt invite ?on top of that cuz he won me one game when i was playing the whole week starcraft2 thanks to blizzard and their changes to SC RM ?
i can understand sugo ,he is good,he streams,i can understand Dandy or Terror be sad, but Beast ? who is that LOL
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TBH this thread has kinda lost it's direction. maybe it's time to close?
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On March 20 2018 05:57 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2018 05:30 Gorgonoth wrote:On March 20 2018 04:08 docholiday_tv wrote:
and where jaehoon has been for the better part of 4-5 months.
4) I've got a bit more but my Lunch is over so later tonight i guess Just an FYI jaehoon beat eonzerg in SKTL. random fact you telling me this no name guy Nas.beast is crying cuz he wasnt invite ?on top of that cuz he won me one game when i was playing the whole week starcraft2 thanks to blizzard and their changes to SC RM ? i can understand sugo ,he is good,he streams,i can understand Dandy or Terror be sad, but Beast ? who is that LOL
Wasn't sayin that he should be invite, just that he has been active.
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
On March 20 2018 05:56 GeckoXp wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2018 05:27 iNcontroL wrote:On March 20 2018 05:08 ninazerg wrote:@everyone There's no "Best in NA" player right now. I feel like anyone can beat anyone. There are so many players in NA that are considered "good" or who consider themselves to be "good" that you could make a kilometer-long list of names. The problem with doing that is that certain players are active, and others are inactive. Who's active now? Sero, Ty2, Dragon, Michael, Nyoken, etc. I know a lot of people will go " Well, I'm active!!!" and that's fine and dandy and all, but where are these people when it comes to tournaments? So if Beast and SuGo think they're top players, they should join Schamtoo's Have At You or something. On March 20 2018 00:32 iNcontroL wrote:
I'm telling you.. as someone who has been involved in a lot of the recent BW events that had money around them
You're taking a situation that doesn't have anything to do with you, and making it about you and how you didn't appreciate how the Holiday Bash was criticized. Well, I'm sorry that people have opinions and that you don't like them. But popping up once every few months to go "Shame on all of you! This community has so much toxicity!" doesn't do anything for anybody. What more did you want us to do, exactly? The majority of the posters told Beast to stfu in the most polite way possible and his account got nuked. For you to make a blanket statement about the whole community is insulting to everyone who works hard to make the tournaments happen, to all the fans, and to everyone who is positive. Yeah man.. you nailed it. That is all I'm doing and I have no good intentions. K You are the most ridiculous figure I have seen in a while with a really crazy need to push your unimportant and uninformed opinions in threads while handing out insults randomly, most times hitting people known to exactly doing the opposite of what you accuse them of. Jesus Christ, get your shit together and stop coming in here if you can only sound like a broken record.
nothing toxic here nina. Cya next time I do some bw thing and it's a thread like this again lol
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On March 19 2018 04:24 castleeMg wrote:
Telecom posts should just be ignored to ensure none of your brain cells die when reading on tl
I agree. He is so pretentious.
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On March 20 2018 06:17 Alpha-NP- wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2018 04:24 castleeMg wrote:
Telecom posts should just be ignored to ensure none of your brain cells die when reading on tl I agree. He is so pretentious.
You could say that, but he's posted well thought out and pretty quality posts so far. Not sure what the hate is against him -- he's posted simply his opinion so far without barraging others. It's just a healthy discussion.
I think some folks are taking a "healthy forum discussion" and turning it into something truly over the top. For instance, NinaZerg addressed incontrol already so I won't chime in on that.
As for everyone else, there's really three train of thoughts, and if you can speak to your side in a respectful manner, no one should have an issue posting here...
1) You feel the "top" NA list could have been better.
2) You feel the event and the participants were fine.
3) You don't care at all but you're posting here anyways.
Pick your bucket and keep it respectful enough.
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On March 20 2018 06:05 iNcontroL wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2018 05:56 GeckoXp wrote:On March 20 2018 05:27 iNcontroL wrote:On March 20 2018 05:08 ninazerg wrote:@everyone There's no "Best in NA" player right now. I feel like anyone can beat anyone. There are so many players in NA that are considered "good" or who consider themselves to be "good" that you could make a kilometer-long list of names. The problem with doing that is that certain players are active, and others are inactive. Who's active now? Sero, Ty2, Dragon, Michael, Nyoken, etc. I know a lot of people will go " Well, I'm active!!!" and that's fine and dandy and all, but where are these people when it comes to tournaments? So if Beast and SuGo think they're top players, they should join Schamtoo's Have At You or something. On March 20 2018 00:32 iNcontroL wrote:
I'm telling you.. as someone who has been involved in a lot of the recent BW events that had money around them
You're taking a situation that doesn't have anything to do with you, and making it about you and how you didn't appreciate how the Holiday Bash was criticized. Well, I'm sorry that people have opinions and that you don't like them. But popping up once every few months to go "Shame on all of you! This community has so much toxicity!" doesn't do anything for anybody. What more did you want us to do, exactly? The majority of the posters told Beast to stfu in the most polite way possible and his account got nuked. For you to make a blanket statement about the whole community is insulting to everyone who works hard to make the tournaments happen, to all the fans, and to everyone who is positive. Yeah man.. you nailed it. That is all I'm doing and I have no good intentions. K You are the most ridiculous figure I have seen in a while with a really crazy need to push your unimportant and uninformed opinions in threads while handing out insults randomly, most times hitting people known to exactly doing the opposite of what you accuse them of. Jesus Christ, get your shit together and stop coming in here if you can only sound like a broken record. nothing toxic here nina. Cya next time I do some bw thing and it's a thread like this again lol
Don't be too upset, if you try to actually contribute, I might change my mind. Until then, thanks for nothing.
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On March 20 2018 05:57 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2018 05:30 Gorgonoth wrote:On March 20 2018 04:08 docholiday_tv wrote:
and where jaehoon has been for the better part of 4-5 months.
4) I've got a bit more but my Lunch is over so later tonight i guess Just an FYI jaehoon beat eonzerg in SKTL. random fact you telling me this no name guy Nas.beast is crying cuz he wasnt invite ?on top of that cuz he won me one game when i was playing the whole week starcraft2 thanks to blizzard and their changes to SC RM ? i can understand sugo ,he is good,he streams,i can understand Dandy or Terror be sad, but Beast ? who is that LOL
Lol guys, there is literally no point to bring anyone who isnt NA/SA into this argument. Leave eonzerg alone.
And bringing up random records doesn't really help the case here either / isn't the point of what's happening here...
(plus a record isn't a good arguing point)
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Bulgaria750 Posts
I never imagined there would be such a bitter thread, ever. I guess I don't follow gaming forums too much.
Is it because of the money? $1k is not a lousy amount, but all this bickering over some guys picking (not arbitrarily) some other guys to basically give them money? Come on. I understand for most of the people involved BW is a passion, but are any of you making a living off the game?
I find the bitterness and primadonna attitude of people that have allegedly been around since forever even more amazing. I was TEN years old when BW came out. Even if some people entered the scene at a much later point, we're all in our late twenties/thirties. I seriously mean that as grow up. Please.
And I completely understand that both sides have valid points, but this is no excuse for such petty bickering over one event with eight players in it. That is not to say that most of the comments weren't civilized, but the whole thing is very... bitter and tense. I am, quite frankly, disappointed. If a casual viewer being disappointed actually means something.
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EPT
