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On January 22 2018 19:15 Letmelose wrote:Show nested quote +On January 22 2018 18:42 kogeT wrote:
Is PC cafes the best measure though. I understand that Korea has got a different approach than other countries when it comes down to playing from PC Bangs, but I also expect more and more people to play from home? Not sure, but it is one metric from which we can judge the popularity of Brood War with fairly decent accuracy over a long time-frame. Actual play time from various severs are harder to gauge since I personally found it extremely difficult to find any numbers for actual play time from those servers across multiple years. I don't know what else would explain Brood War suffering such a sudden drop in terms of play time within PC cafes that remained extremely stable for over a decade regardless of what else went on, other than the issues created due to SC Remastered. It's not like other older titles like Kart Rider suffered such a staggering drop due to people wanting to play older gaming titles from home. In fact, compared to October 2013, there's more people playing Kart Rider in 2018. PUBG may be popular, but Brood War didn't drop this low when League of Legends alone had over 40% of the market share, or when League of Legends and Overwatch combined had very similar market share to what PUBG and League of Legends has as of today, or when all of the top three titles (League of Legends, Overwatch, and FIFA Online) had over 10% of the market share. No matter who was at the top, Brood War always floated around 3% for years on end. Until now. I really don't know why some people think SC Remastered helped the Korean Brood War scene. Korean Brood War was actually at its healthiest in terms of overall player base, streaming numbers, and competitive scene before Blizzard's intervention from almost every available source of information out there. I don't care about what Blizzard intentions are. However it outright drives me crazy when people drive the narrative that Blizzard's actions should be free from criticism until every we exhaust every single possible alternative explanation imaginable. It truly does not matter whether Blizzard intends to hurt Brood War or not, the fact of the matter is that they are hurting Brood War, and have done a solid job of fucking things up for Brood War in the past also. Blizzard are accountable for their actions, and people who shy away from the reality of the situation by worrying more about Blizzard's image, and at the same time pretend to truly care for Brood War, are quite simply, frauds.
The problem with this measure is that cafes have to pay more since sc3 came out (to crapzzard). Hence most likely costumers have to pay more to play it in cafe, which can lead to lower numbers.
But there is another measure - number of donations for BJs.
Before sc3 i used to watch streams a lot and know that for examle Flash gained 10 000+ balloons basically everytime he streamed. I checked a big number of his videos from last 6 months and a drop in donations is huge - now its like ~1500 balloons, hence 7x less.
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On January 21 2018 01:39 Waxangel wrote:
I wonder if this is posted on English forums only because Fish can't sell themselves as a faultless, saintly org in Korean communities and get away with it....?
I dont think people should take what fish_radio says with too much seirousness.
criticism against blizzard is fine, but fish_radio is one fishy dude. History of these type of posts and baitings
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Has blizzard given any statement about any of this, or asl or the situation in korea?
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On January 23 2018 03:22 StylishVODs wrote:
Has blizzard given any statement about any of this, or asl or the situation in korea?
Nope.
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On January 21 2018 02:19 palexhur wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2018 23:49 Qikz wrote:On January 20 2018 23:40 [AS]Rattus wrote:On January 20 2018 23:17 Qikz wrote:
Also you're ignoring that the people who ran Fish were shady as all hell. Jinjin can confirm. At the end of the day, we know what happens when Blizzard takes over. So i prefer everybody else but Blizz. We get 2 massive twitch events that had over 30,000 viewers and a vastly renewed interest in the game? The player count outside of Korea has gone up considerably since the iCCUP days and although Afreeca are having issues with Blizzard we don't know what those are so we shouldn't judge Blizzard on things we don't understand. Put your pitchforks away and just try and enjoy playing the game. The foreign base is insignificant and lets be real, those 30k at least in the last tournament were becuase the players were very known casters, or you can see those 30k populating Battle.net? (not at all), if you see the figures in Korea the game is shrinking quite fast and once BW Korea is dead, the real and competitive game is dead too, RM has been the final nail in the coffin for BW, ironic but true.
This.
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Didnt blizzard force pc cafes to charge more for sc:R? Isnt it possible some portion of the pc cafe drop off is just misers?
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On January 23 2018 03:43 Dazed. wrote:
Didnt blizzard force pc cafes to charge more for sc:R? Isnt it possible some portion of the pc cafe drop off is just misers?
Which would change the situation how, exactly?
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I only read the initial post here, but could someone explain me the Blizzard's side of the argument? Like what are their motivation and what are they hoping for?
Apart from that, I believe we got an unfinished product in form of SC:R. Even months after its release its functionality is really unsatisfying.
Lack of features such as 2v2 ladder or clan/team tools is a real disgrace from a company that is a major player in online games.
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I wonder how long we have to sit here and point out gamebreaking flaws in remastered. All we get is this australian dude that comes and gives us updates on youtube with how happy they are with everything. Makes me sick
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Put your pitchforks away and just try and enjoy playing the game.
Well, I would if I could find a game without lag, or even find one at all.
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On January 23 2018 05:42 Jealous wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2018 03:43 Dazed. wrote:
Didnt blizzard force pc cafes to charge more for sc:R? Isnt it possible some portion of the pc cafe drop off is just misers? Which would change the situation how, exactly?
Ok, to put it into context:
It means PC Cafes who doesn't buy Blizzard's package won't have premium access to Blizzard games. Premium access, in this case, means free access to all of Blizzard's games without actually purchasing the game. SC:R was included on this list (which made some PC Cafe owners angry since they didn't have to for 1.16).
But it really doesn't mean much in this context, since the ratings only count the usage of the game 'StarCraft' within PC Cafes. Even if the venue did not purchase these packages, players can still enjoy StarCraft without buying the game because non-remastered version is free.
Of course, this might mean that users might have to install StarCraft by themselves everytime they visit (most PC Cafes do a system restore after person finishes playing on the PC). If the users are frustrated by this, it may drive them away which MAY attribute to dropped numbers. I really don't see this being the case here though.
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I’m from Korea myself and I feel like the Fish community shouldn’t buy any sympathy for their unjustifiable requests.
First things first, Fish server itself is illegitimate. It is an unofficial open server, in which people can play the game for free. I have not seen any people since the 2000s who actually paid to play BW in Korea. The server could be running only because Blizzard has overlooked it.
After the remastered version was released, it is simply that the Blizzard stops overlooking such conducts of “playing the game for free” by integrating the server into one official server. To my knowledge, it seems that the Fish community asks for re-openning the server. It is like saying that “we don’t want to pay the development costs of the remastered version, but want to pay the game.” No justification should be there to re-open the illegitimate-overlooked server, since Blizzard steped into its own game and decided to remaster it and release it both to earn money and to thank the popularity it has received.
The Fish community must not think they are legitimately and morally justified to ask for financial and technical supports for several years to come. I mean, if Blizzard wants to do, good for you! But if Blizzard doesn’t want to put same level of supports of sc2 or overwatch, there is still no room for complaints.
Anyway, in the first place, the community and the players enjoyed the game for free.
Secondly, it is so obvious that sc2 and overwatch are still on active development and, especially overwatch, earn a lot.
The remaster is remaster. It is not re-developing, re-habilitating the scene, and re-turing to the sc:bw from sc2.
To me, personally, the Fish community seems to be under the delusion that they are justified to ask for more and that the game is still too popular to receive more supports.
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I have asked this question before but got no response, so I’ll try again:
Can someone just explain to me why Blizzard is charging organizations to host SC:R events, while effectively subsidizing SC2 events? I just want to know their reasoning behind this. It’s not like SC2 is a new game anymore.
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^ oldcamel you start with "fish = illegitimate because unofficial", why? don't you understand the need that has existed for servers others than blizzards which were not providing what the players needed while providing it for their newer games? (stuff that existed also in starcraft originally but was eventually just left to hacks?)
I don't really understand your point of view at all tbh, straight blizzard apology, ignore the SC:R issues, what's good for the game?
you seem to be for some reason afraid that people might play a game for free. Why is that a problem? are you concerned in the increasing wealth of activision shareholders, don't you know they're very rich? do you believe that if people don't pay for something, then they do not deserve to enjoy it? who is this hurting in any way?
why would you criticize fish so harshly and build your blizzard defense narrative when fish done stuff for people for free which was great for the game, while blizzard would do stuff that's not good for the game and try to control as much of it as possible for money? your world seems upside down
or I'm missing whatever piece of your history
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On January 23 2018 23:07 Jae Zedong wrote:
I have asked this question before but got no response, so I’ll try again:
Can someone just explain to me why Blizzard is charging organizations to host SC:R events, while effectively subsidizing SC2 events? I just want to know their reasoning behind this. It’s not like SC2 is a new game anymore.
But whom exactly are you asking this question? Are you hoping that someone competent enough from Blizzard is lurking here and is going to respond? As far as I know Blizzard did not release any official statement why are they doing this, and people who would respond here to your question simply don't have this knowledge.
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On January 22 2018 17:37 SchAmToo wrote:Some interesting choice of words. I'm curious about a few things: Show nested quote +On January 20 2018 17:53 fish_radio wrote:
We accepted no donations and did our best to provide the ultimate StarCraft experience.
Why not accept donations if the ad revenue was blocked? What is the reason behind this and is it legal or...? It seems weird if one source of income was blocked not to explain why other avenues aren't used. Show nested quote +On January 20 2018 17:53 fish_radio wrote:
It is now 2018 and the StarCraft player base is shrinking. StarCraft's big draw before the remaster was how the community powered the game. 1. Do we have numbers that the player base is shrinking? A before & after or something? This is a statement about a number, but no numbers were given here. 2. If the big draw is the community, then I think I would've expected many people to go back to the old ICCUP servers. However, I hear there is no one on them. Matchmaking is important, but wouldn't the quality of the game be more important?
2. Then you heard the wrong thing. I know plenty of people that still play iccup, or again or play both. Also a lot of koreans migrated after fish was shut down.
Given that iccup wasn't the best 3rd party server (admittedly) that's nothing to scoff st.
And many stick with SC:R because foreigners tours are still played on it even tho the server is worse.
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On January 24 2018 00:24 Netto. wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2018 23:07 Jae Zedong wrote:
I have asked this question before but got no response, so I’ll try again:
Can someone just explain to me why Blizzard is charging organizations to host SC:R events, while effectively subsidizing SC2 events? I just want to know their reasoning behind this. It’s not like SC2 is a new game anymore. But whom exactly are you asking this question? Are you hoping that someone competent enough from Blizzard is lurking here and is going to respond? As far as I know Blizzard did not release any official statement why are they doing this, and people who would respond here to your question simply don't have this knowledge.
Because the most ardent Blizzard apologists usually come up with some perverted corporate logic to defend them at every turn, but it seems not even the fanboys are defending this. I just want a plausible explanation. Because this does not seem to make sense on any level.
At this moment it seems Blizzard could not have done more damage to BW since 2010 if they tried. And they definitely tried.
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i see some reddit and sc2 users come to distaste my message. it's unhelpful to this. we believe it's inexcusable.
you can't say love/hate a company, but the method. we want a method change, not a blizzard to die.
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On January 24 2018 01:34 fish_radio wrote:
i see some reddit and sc2 users come to distaste my message. it's unhelpful to this. we believe it's inexcusable.
you can't say love/hate a company, but the method. we want a method change, not a blizzard to die.
nice fake engrish miku well done
User was warned for this post
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On January 23 2018 09:40 supernovamaniac wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2018 05:42 Jealous wrote:On January 23 2018 03:43 Dazed. wrote:
Didnt blizzard force pc cafes to charge more for sc:R? Isnt it possible some portion of the pc cafe drop off is just misers? Which would change the situation how, exactly? Ok, to put it into context: It means PC Cafes who doesn't buy Blizzard's package won't have premium access to Blizzard games. Premium access, in this case, means free access to all of Blizzard's games without actually purchasing the game. SC:R was included on this list (which made some PC Cafe owners angry since they didn't have to for 1.16). But it really doesn't mean much in this context, since the ratings only count the usage of the game 'StarCraft' within PC Cafes. Even if the venue did not purchase these packages, players can still enjoy StarCraft without buying the game because non-remastered version is free. Of course, this might mean that users might have to install StarCraft by themselves everytime they visit (most PC Cafes do a system restore after person finishes playing on the PC). If the users are frustrated by this, it may drive them away which MAY attribute to dropped numbers. I really don't see this being the case here though.
I meant that Blizzard's policy still hurts the userbase, even if it's only a portion of PC Bang and only a "miser" portion of the userbase, it's still a negative effect - so Dazed's post didn't bring up anything that changes the situation in my view.
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EPT
