EPT[WoW] Battle for Azeroth - Page 480
| Forum Index > Closed |
BfA Community Links: GP : https://www.worldofwarcraft.com/invite/KKMpKPSlgd?region=EU&faction=Horde TLEUH : https://www.worldofwarcraft.com/invite/v9x5bAF3jD?region=EU&faction=Horde TLEUA : https://www.worldofwarcraft.com/invite/ALwgJnC5Wo?region=EU&faction=Alliance TLNAH : https://www.worldofwarcraft.com/invite/vPrmjJxiVnJ?region=US&faction=Horde TLNAA : https://www.worldofwarcraft.com/invite/YeZj7P0SXLn?region=US&faction=Alliance Bnet: Bnet - https://blizzard.com/invite/amvLM0EubJv On November 03 2016 06:57 GTR wrote: I've created a Google Form/Spreadsheet for people to help add eachother. Hopefully this will makes things easier for us to find people for Mythic+ runs and what not as opposed to sifting through 150+ pages of discussion. Form Spreadsheet If a moderator could add this as a moderator note at the top it'd be appreciated. | ||
|
arb
Noobville17921 Posts
| ||
|
Cyro
United Kingdom20285 Posts
The time when you do dungeons also matters a lot, it's far more active around 8pm plus or minus ~3 hours than it is for most of the rest of the day. In your case i would make my own groups and invite people higher geared than myself and/or play with friends - it's far easier to form a group if you have a tank or healer role and free if you have both. | ||
TheEmulator
28089 Posts
On October 13 2018 17:44 Cyro wrote: Normal and heroic raids + 8-9 keys will get you to 365-370 quickly. The time when you do dungeons also matters a lot, it's far more active around 8pm plus or minus ~3 hours than it is for most of the rest of the day so instead of having 3 groups to sign up to, you'll have 10. Instead of having 5 applicants you'll have 50. I'm going back for my masters soonish, but atm I'm just doing some pre-req stuff for it so I have a lot of time on my hands. I'm playing this game pretty much all day long when I'm not doing homework. I've tried to queue at all times and it's not much better during primetime in my own experience. Your experience might be different. Getting to 365+ right now is based on my luck with Heroic Uldir drops, M+ cache, and drops from M+ dungeons (which are currently not high enough unless war/titan forged). Normal Uldir is already meh unless I replace my 340 rings (although I did clear each boss again regardless). I’ve had bad RNG for a few weeks, which is obviously normal and will happen to everyone playing this game at some point. It just adds to my frustration about not being able to do higher keys while pugging. If I could run a bunch of 10s I'd be 370 in no time, but I can't do that. Should note this entire discussion is with regards to my rogue. My Lock is 361 and I've been able to pug a +9. I'm just in this incredibly weird spot with my Rogue where's it's legitimately hard to progress until I have a good week with my M+ cache and Heroic Uldir drops lol. This is what brought me to think about ways to help decent players get into content that they might otherwise not get into other than having friends to help. Logs are probably not the best idea, but it's something that exists already so why not push pug creators to look at/upload them more. You could technically invite someone who's done a 10 and has a score of 800, but maybe he got carried by friends? Logs (or whatever other idea you might have) takes away some of the uncertainties that raider.io scores present. | ||
|
Cyro
United Kingdom20285 Posts
We can't have been much more than 350 ilvl doing 10's on that first week, we hadn't had access to m+ before and the raid wasn't open yet. Neither was warfront. Even on my Havoc (375, 1200 score) i get declined very often on 10's so i can't imagine what it'd be like on a newer char but having friends, communities or a guild should get you geared up in no time. It's not that hard to actually do the dungeons on 10, the problem is that you're competing with other players rather than the content. TBH Logs are overly complex for almost everyone; that's a big part of why they're not used for m+ and also why i think it wouldn't be very useful in this case. Few people aside from the top 10% or so of primarily mythic guilds actually look into any details in logs; a lot of people ask for them, but they just take a glance at the percentiles and then close the tab. Few people even bother to look at the raider.io site to see if you have a 1000 score from doing a handful of 13-15's, or if you got it from timing everything on 9-10; the first being a much stronger indication of skill. Currently on my realm we're halfway through the week and it's already possible to have a timed key on the maximum loot ilvl not register because the leaderboard is full of better runs. I view that as a much bigger problem for people that don't do a lot more m+ at higher levels than most other players. | ||
|
TheEmulator
28089 Posts
On October 13 2018 18:06 Cyro wrote: You can link your characters so that your rogue has lock's raider.io score. Yea I've done that although my Lock actually now has a lower score than my Rogue haha  I just made the lock to occasionally play in my friends casual raid (since the'yre on Alliance and my Rogue is Horde) and I did the bare minimum to get to 360ish. Now I'm just raiding with them, and running one key a week for the cache. Also it just shows the score, but doesn't show that I've done a 9. Even on my Havoc (375, 1200 score) i get declined all the time on 10's so i can't imagine what it'd be like on a newer char but having friends, communities or a guild should get you geared up in no time. It's not that hard to actually do the dungeons on 10. Yea for sure, and I'm certain most people understand that playing with friends is the key, but this discussion is about my struggles as a solo pug player specifically on my Horde char. Until I have a higher ilvl and more content under my belt (higher keys, more heroic uldir kills, etc), finding good people to play with isn't exactly going to fall out of a tree. My goal is to find people to play with eventually, but my original thoughts were with regards to pugging as a solo player so saying "just find friends to run 10s with" isn't very helpful. I'm definitely not confused about how to get into higher keys. It's basically endure the grind or have friends. Unfortunately as a newish WoW player I lack friends and I don’t enjoy the way this systems grind feels, at least where I’m currently stuck. I’m sure once I have a good week with loot and get my first 10 done everything will be fine. | ||
|
Gorsameth
Netherlands21667 Posts
| ||
|
Atreides
United States2393 Posts
So this is how basically anybody with a lot of time and willing to run a lot of keys can get to ~800 score. At that point, I honestly suggest making your own groups even as a dps. You just have to be patient get good enough groups to time your 9s. Once you have your own 10 keys, you have all the power and then you'll be the asshole looking at io scores and ignoring the 365s applying because as you will find you will get 50+370 dps to apply in less than a minute.  Its ridiculous. A lot of pugs will fail your 10s even still. In pure pugs even now the success difference as to timing between 9s and 10+ is ridiculous. Abusing the key delete system is pretty useful for all this btw. The big caveat here is I legitimately just enjoy m+. If you only want to do m+ for gear this is not really feasible, but if that is the case you need to be tank/healer or have friends. | ||
|
Cyro
United Kingdom20285 Posts
3 chest someones 6 and sometimes you'll get to go on the 9. I don't think i've ever 3 chested a BFA dungeon, like literally ever even a single time. Big change from Legion! The fact that we're not getting meaningful amounts of artifact power any more is a big part of that, we're only being driven by loot amounts and ilevels. The HoA AP is practically worthless by comparison. Whenever i queued into low keys i got people that are incompetent to the point where they struggle to make +2 even with a big dps boost, and whenever i'm doing like 12's it's with people that know their shit so they go on pace for 12+2 and maybe some of them fuck up and don't make +2, but a lot of the time it goes smooth. +2 allows for 1.33x more time than +3 and that's a change of pace that i haven't seen anybody be able to target without deliberately under leveling their keys to the point of dropping reward quality. Those 12+2 guys have no incentive to go back and do 9+3 instead. They're pushed to go do the 14 key or have a handful of people in their group delete their keys to reroll on new 11 keys from the 12 chest (you can do that now!) and pick the dungeon that they want. | ||
|
Tappo
101 Posts
On October 13 2018 14:38 TheEmulator wrote: I mean of course, but that is not what I'm getting at here. Literally no one uploads or checks M+ logs (except high end M+ runners ofc), so even if I did upload my own it really doesn't matter. Anyone not running +15s and higher will probably just check raider.io and maybe your raid logs at most. I'd be uploading my logs for no one to see. This is not how it works. If you dont start changing it, nothing will change. You could simply whisper your bestest log and people might take it in consideration. That would improve the situation for you. You dont have to care if other player/groups dont do it | ||
NonY
8748 Posts
If I start my own group, only scrubs apply. Grinding up your io score by pugging as a DPS who is behind the ilvl curve is definitely a chore. But it can be done. Once you have your own 10 keys, you have all the power and then you'll be the asshole looking at io scores and ignoring the 365s applying because as you will find you will get 50+370 dps to apply in less than a minute. This is so true. At least when you have your own 10 key you can get the raiders who only do one +10 dungeon a week. They probably don't know mechanics and routes but they at least know how to hit their buttons and their gear carries them. I'd probably look at mythic+ logs if it was more of a thing. The average DPS over the whole dungeon is a decent stat to look at just to get a ballpark idea of whether a player knows how to play their class or not. It can be unfair, like on teeming tyrannical right now I did a low key dungeon with 2x DH's, so packs were dying before I even got all my dots up. But in general it'd be worth glancing over. Because sometimes you pug a DPS and their numbers are just unbelievably low for their ilvl and then you're stuck with that for the whole run. | ||
|
Rebs
Pakistan10726 Posts
On October 13 2018 16:55 TheEmulator wrote: We must understand what pushing yourself means in far different ways then? Being subjected to a mindless grind below your skill level is not pushing yourself, although I do get that it is necessary with the raider.io system in place. Whether a better system could be implemented is something I can't answer. Also I’m not quite sure why you think I’m asking for a handout. In this current system I don’t currently deserve an invite to a +10 until my score is higher. Which is why I think discussing alternatives could be useful. Was my log idea the best? Probably not, but it was just a random thought. Anyway I’m not complaining that I have to grind to reach better players, I’m complaining that the game is not letting me progress/grind at the right pace. Since I got unlucky I’m stuck doing 6-7s for a week or two longer than I should be. In dota if you’re a 6k player playing 4k games you will quickly hit 4500 in a few days, then 5k in a few more after that. You progress as fast as you can win games. Right now in WoW it feels like the game isn’t letting me past 4k despite winning if that makes sense. Honestly if I had 1-2 more heroic drops I’d probably be 360 and we wouldn’t be having this discussion lol. Again just to finally reiterate, this discussion was never about me feeling like I deserve to suddenly get invites to +10 keys for no reason whatsoever. It was simply just me venting frustrations about what I feel is a system that may or may not be limiting me. Edit: mindless grind was unfair of me to say since I do believe I’m learning a lot running low keys. There’s always something to learn, but to truly improve you need to up the difficulty. Winning what ? Your description is the equivalent of a guy who says he has a good KD ratio but isnt winning "coz team sucks" Again im pretty sure I have done the bare minimum, I have projects and year end deadlines that require me to sometimes spend 9-11 hours at work, and by the time I am home I am too tired to do anything except maybe run a mythic or two. What do I do.. I turn some sports on keep applying to grps.. get one and do the run or two regardless of how it goes and thats it. This just my way of doing it and it leaves me at a level I am satisfied with. there are many other ways and many are valid. All I can say is, Make an honest assessment and ask yourself f you have invested the same amount of time and as properly as you should relative to your expectation of where you should be, perhaps you have done the same in other games (obviously there are differences in approach and its a different game but the fundamentals are exactly the same.) Thats all I can really say for you because it seems like you are selectively expressing frustration. I will leave it at that. On October 13 2018 23:29 NonY wrote: I'd probably look at mythic+ logs if it was more of a thing. The average DPS over the whole dungeon is a decent stat to look at just to get a ballpark idea of whether a player knows how to play their class or not. It can be unfair, like on teeming tyrannical right now I did a low key dungeon with 2x DH's, so packs were dying before I even got all my dots up. But in general it'd be worth glancing over. Because sometimes you pug a DPS and their numbers are just unbelievably low for their ilvl and then you're stuck with that for the whole run. Mythic guild recruitng a raider-- dig away dig dig dig through logs. Mythic+ Pug ? Come now... There is too much nuance to logs In a mythic dungeon, expecting people to dig through that is unreasonable and not a very good return. | ||
|
Spicy_Curry
United States10573 Posts
| ||
|
Redox
Germany24794 Posts
On October 13 2018 23:29 NonY wrote: At least when you have your own 10 key you can get the raiders who only do one +10 dungeon a week. They probably don't know mechanics and routes but they at least know how to hit their buttons and their gear carries them. Hey that's me. :D Although I stopped raiding now, got too annoyed by my guild and its lineup policies. Also work makes it more difficult to find the time, so I am not bothered to look for a new one atm. | ||
|
NonY
8748 Posts
On October 14 2018 01:08 Rebs wrote: Mythic guild recruitng a raider-- dig away dig dig dig through logs. Mythic+ Pug ? Come now... There is too much nuance to logs In a mythic dungeon, expecting people to dig through that is unreasonable and not a very good return. people 350+ ilvl are averaging under 6k. i had a hunter literally doing 2.7k. if avg dps for a run was on the raider.io page it'd be nice to glance at just so i know if they're decent. it only takes a second to copy the URL and glance at their profile. the problem is that these totally awful players get invited because they have decent ilvl and leaders arent picky. the run starts and you do a few trash pulls and you see their awful dps -- what do you do? who is really gonna stop the run to replace them? it just doesn't happen. so they get carried and invited to the next unsuspecting group. looking at logs would protect groups from such players you just have to glance at a handful of runs and see that they're typically around 8-10k and i'd think that's fine for pushing a key to 10 | ||
|
TheEmulator
28089 Posts
Mythic guild recruitng a raider-- dig away dig dig dig through logs. Mythic+ Pug ? Come now... There is too much nuance to logs In a mythic dungeon, expecting people to dig through that is unreasonable and not a very good return. Ehh, do you really think Mythic recruiters are the only people that look at logs? A large amount of pug raid leaders quickly check if you are grey parsing or not when they are putting together a raid team. The same could be beneficial for M+. Of course we've already discussed that DPS isn't as important in M+ and it's not the only thing that matters, but it takes like 15 seconds to put someone's name into warcraftlogs and see if they are grey parsing and not casting interrupts. Example. I put together a pug with my key last night. This Hunter did 6k overall DPS in the dungeon, and died to simple mechanics in two of the four boss fights. Spending 10 seconds to look at his logs would have allowed me to pass on this guy. Instead I saw that he completed a 7 and had a similar score to me so I invited him. It was a mistake. Still completed the key on time, but that's not my point. I mean if one guy on avg does 500 more DPS than some other guy I'm not going to assume he's better. If one guy is literally doubling someone's DPS then it's kind of a huge fucking indicator that he might be better and it's something I see ALL THE TIME at lower keys. It's very clear when myself and one other guy in the pug are far above their current pay grade Don't bother reading this unless you're Rebs or somehow care about this dumb argument lol. + Show Spoiler + On October 14 2018 01:08 Rebs wrote: Winning what ? Your description is the equivalent of a guy who says he has a good KD ratio but isnt winning "coz team sucks" You know I haven't really said anything about being held back by teammates. I've mentioned people at my level suck, but I'm still fairly easily completing the keys so it's not like I'm being held back. And if I was being held back I would just have to get better myself. My point is that the system is artificially holding me back (not my teammates), or at least gives off the feeling of doing so more than any other game I've put time into. Completing the same keys over and over with ease to me is like winning at Dota (or any game with MMR) without the MMR gain. There is the "raider.io" gain, but it's just a subjective number that may or may not get me into a higher key. As I've said I can get into higher keys on my Lock despite a lower score because I have a higher ilvl. Since I've had bad luck with loot on my Rogue I'm now required to either wait another week for good drops or grind my IO more than I need/want to on keys that are no longer benefiting me nearly as much as they used to (in terms of drops and pushing myself as a player). This just my way of doing it and it leaves me at a level I am satisfied with. there are many other ways and many are valid. You being ok with slow progression doesn't mean I have to be ok with it as well. Sitting around for 1-2 hours trying to get into a pug is not my idea of a great system that does everything in its power to shine a light on above avg performers. All I can say is, Make an honest assessment and ask yourself f you have invested the same amount of time and as properly as you should relative to your expectation of where you should be, perhaps you have done the same in other games (obviously there are differences in approach and its a different game but the fundamentals are exactly the same.) Thats all I can really say for you because it seems like you are selectively expressing frustration. I will leave it at that. My honest assessment is that I've put in a lot of work and I'm still currently putting in a lot of work relative to the people I'm running keys with. It's a very simple issue that I have to learn to deal with, but I honestly think that I have a decent right to find it annoying (anyone who excels quickly in games probably understands my frustration). Nony for example can probably get GM in Sc2 (assuming he still plays and is good ofc) in about a week or something crazy. Could he get to that equivalent as quickly in WoW if he had the skill? As a solo pug player, definitely not. Is there a way to let people making pug groups know that I'm better than my IO score and/or ilvl indicates? Maybe there is and maybe there isn't, who knows tbh. Logs are a start at least. If you truly still believe that WoW is properly rewarding towards players that excel faster than others than we have nothing more to discuss. Sorry for continuing this incredibly annoying rant btw, but I just wanted to respond to your last posts there. You can feel free to respond as well, although after that I'm just gonna drop it since I'm sure we're annoying everyone in the thread at this point. TLDR: Trying to make the claim that I deserve to be at the level I'm at is only fair if you believe raider.io should be the sole metric when it comes to inviting someone to a higher key. I understand it is currently the only metric people use, and I'm stating that I dislike that and would like to discuss possible ways to get around this problem. At the end of the day I'm playing with people who clearly have put less time and effort into improving at the game then me and it's very irritating. | ||
|
Rebs
Pakistan10726 Posts
On October 14 2018 03:35 NonY wrote: people 350+ ilvl are averaging under 6k. i had a hunter literally doing 2.7k. if avg dps for a run was on the raider.io page it'd be nice to glance at just so i know if they're decent. it only takes a second to copy the URL and glance at their profile. the problem is that these totally awful players get invited because they have decent ilvl and leaders arent picky. the run starts and you do a few trash pulls and you see their awful dps -- what do you do? who is really gonna stop the run to replace them? it just doesn't happen. so they get carried and invited to the next unsuspecting group. looking at logs would protect groups from such players you just have to glance at a handful of runs and see that they're typically around 8-10k and i'd think that's fine for pushing a key to 10 But raiderIO already solves that problem because if you dont have the DPS you want make timers.. As a supplement it might be fine, but its never going to be a driver and you are asking for information to a question that it already sort of answers. On October 14 2018 03:48 TheEmulator wrote: Ehh, do you really think Mythic recruiters are the only people that look at logs? A large amount of pug raid leaders quickly check if you are grey parsing or not when they are putting together a raid team. The same could be beneficial for M+. Of course we've already discussed that DPS isn't as important in M+ and it's not the only thing that matters, but it takes like 15 seconds to put someone's name into warcraftlogs and see if they are grey parsing and not casting interrupts. Example. I put together a pug with my key last night. This Hunter did 6k overall DPS in the dungeon, and died to simple mechanics in two of the four boss fights. Spending 10 seconds to look at his logs would have allowed me to pass on this guy. Instead I saw that he completed a 7 and had a similar score to me so I invited him. It was a mistake. Still completed the key on time, but that's not my point. I mean if one guy on avg does 500 more DPS than some other guy I'm not going to assume he's better. If one guy is literally doubling someone's DPS then it's kind of a huge fucking indicator that he might be better and it's something I see ALL THE TIME at lower keys. It's very clear when myself and one other guy in the pug are far above their current pay grade Don't bother reading this unless you're Rebs or somehow care about this dumb argument lol. + Show Spoiler + On October 14 2018 01:08 Rebs wrote: Winning what ? Your description is the equivalent of a guy who says he has a good KD ratio but isnt winning "coz team sucks" You know I haven't really said anything about being held back by teammates. I've mentioned people at my level suck, but I'm still fairly easily completing the keys so it's not like I'm being held back. And if I was being held back I would just have to get better myself. My point is that the system is artificially holding me back (not my teammates), or at least gives off the feeling of doing so more than any other game I've put time into. Completing the same keys over and over with ease to me is like winning at Dota (or any game with MMR) without the MMR gain. There is the "raider.io" gain, but it's just a subjective number that may or may not get me into a higher key. As I've said I can get into higher keys on my Lock despite a lower score because I have a higher ilvl. Since I've had bad luck with loot on my Rogue I'm now required to either wait another week for good drops or grind my IO more than I need/want to on keys that are no longer benefiting me nearly as much as they used to (in terms of drops and pushing myself as a player). This just my way of doing it and it leaves me at a level I am satisfied with. there are many other ways and many are valid. You being ok with slow progression doesn't mean I have to be ok with it as well. Sitting around for 1-2 hours trying to get into a pug is not my idea of a great system that does everything in its power to shine a light on above avg performers. All I can say is, Make an honest assessment and ask yourself f you have invested the same amount of time and as properly as you should relative to your expectation of where you should be, perhaps you have done the same in other games (obviously there are differences in approach and its a different game but the fundamentals are exactly the same.) Thats all I can really say for you because it seems like you are selectively expressing frustration. I will leave it at that. My honest assessment is that I've put in a lot of work and I'm still currently putting in a lot of work relative to the people I'm running keys with. It's a very simple issue that I have to learn to deal with, but I honestly think that I have a decent right to find it annoying (anyone who excels quickly in games probably understands my frustration). Nony for example can probably get GM in Sc2 (assuming he still plays and is good ofc) in about a week or something crazy. Could he get to that equivalent as quickly in WoW if he had the skill? As a solo pug player, definitely not. Is there a way to let people making pug groups know that I'm better than my IO score and/or ilvl indicates? Maybe there is and maybe there isn't, who knows tbh. Logs are a start at least. If you truly still believe that WoW is properly rewarding towards players that excel faster than others than we have nothing more to discuss. Sorry for continuing this incredibly annoying rant btw, but I just wanted to respond to your last posts there. You can feel free to respond as well, although after that I'm just gonna drop it since I'm sure we're annoying everyone in the thread at this point. TLDR: Trying to make the claim that I deserve to be at the level I'm at is only fair if you believe raider.io should be the sole metric when it comes to inviting someone to a higher key. I understand it is currently the only metric people use, and I'm stating that I dislike that and would like to discuss possible ways to get around this problem. At the end of the day I'm playing with people who clearly have put less time and effort into improving at the game then me and it's very irritating. @atreides I appeciate your attempt to ELI5, but I've already explained multiple times that I understand how to progress and that I just don't like it + Show Spoiler + Im not going to bother reading it either, I started to skim it and saw something about Nony not being as successful if he was a solo player and wanted to be, and i kinda just turned it off right there because thats pretty rubbish, if he was interested he could do it easily given the same level of skill. Anyone can. You keep making the argument that you are stuck doing content with people who arent at your level but that applies to all games to varying degrees and thats the bottom line of it. Clearly im progressing faster than you and probably spending a lot less time on the game so I must be doing something right and you must be doing something wrong. | ||
|
Rebs
Pakistan10726 Posts
| ||
|
TheEmulator
28089 Posts
On October 14 2018 06:01 Rebs wrote: Im not going to bother reading it either, I started to skim it and saw something about Nony not being successful if he was a solo player and wanted to be, and i kinda just turned it off right there because thats pretty rubbish, if he was interested he could do it easily. Anyone can. You keep making the argument that you are stuck doing content with people who arent at your level but that applies to all games to varying degrees and thats the bottom line of it. Clearly im progressing faster than you and probably spending a lot less time on the game so I must be doing something right and you must be doing something wrong. That's not even close to what I said, but I mean you've failed to read multiple times in this argument so that's just par for the course. I said as a solo pug player he wouldn't get to the same level as fast as he could in SC2. Not even close to saying he wouldn't be successful. If you truly believe that the game isn't limiting to people who excel quicker than others you are just very very wrong. End of story. edit: You've progressed further than me because I started the expac 4weeks late and I'm focusing on two characters. Aside from not playing with friends or a guild I'm not really doing anything wrong. I'm progressing at what would most likely be the intended rate in relation to how much effort I put in. My issue is that I believe the game should let people progress faster if they put in the effort to deserve it. How we do that is a different discussion. | ||
|
Rebs
Pakistan10726 Posts
On October 14 2018 06:05 TheEmulator wrote: That's not even close to what I said, but I mean you've failed to read multiple times in this argument so that's just par for the course. I said as a solo pug player he wouldn't get to the same level as fast. Not even close to saying he wouldn't be successful. If you truly believe that the game isn't limiting to people who excel quicker than others you are just very very wrong. End of story. I dont and I never said that, I just said its par for the course relative to all games. So your selective frustration is rather amusing.. | ||
|
TheEmulator
28089 Posts
On October 14 2018 06:08 Rebs wrote: I dont and I never said that, I just said its par for the course relative to all games. So your selective frustration is rather amusing.. WoW isn't relative to other games in that regard though. Prove me wrong instead of just stating that it is. Or stop talking. I have a right to be frustrated with something that I believe to be limiting me more than it might in other games. I hold a different viewpoint than you so it's not selective frustration from my POV. The raider.io system has minor similarities to an actual MMR system, but it stops right there. To provide another example of why you can't compare the systems I could just point to how raider.io doesn't penalize you for being bad. If you win a 4k game in dota then lose 100 games after you will no longer be 4k. If you complete a 7 key raider.io will still show that you have done that 7, and not show the dozens of failed attempts afterwards where you had no one to carry you. Again there's similarities, but the systems aren't perfectly parallel. I fail to see how this system doesn't benefit casuals more than it benefits people trying to push content as hard as possible. | ||
| ||
