On August 28 2018 10:51 NonY wrote: Any other geared DPS beat on the training dummy for a while? I just did for 9 mins and finished at 8.8k dps. I made a few mistakes. But I'm not totally sure what set up is best anyway, so it's possible I was doing it wrong anyway. The WW community has a lot of theorycrafting to do I think.
i do about 8.5-9.5k over 7 mins as WW . but im also not 100% comfortable, i run into resource starvation issues once in a while if i mismanage the prio even once. If i had nicer weapons i could probably sustain 10 easily. Ofc its rarely a problem in
Its wierd and doesnt make alot of sense. Like Verse sims highest for me right now by alot.
Oh wow I wonder why I'm doing worse. You do about the same or higher but with worse gear. I tried a few different things but I always end up sub 9k.
But yeah, vers sims high for a lot of WW's now. It's the highest for me. And resource starvation seems unavoidable.
On August 28 2018 10:54 Cyro wrote: Dummy has some bugs which makes it not representative of patchwerk and i'm not about to pop BFA flasks & pots, battle shout etc to test DPS iterations; i will get some practice when the raid is out. My sim is something like 12.5k on 5 min patchwerk with all that stuff and doesn't change very much with fight length aside from the heroism buff being a strong influence, so shorter is generally higher.
Yeah I'm not prepping for raid. Just hitting the dummy for fun and seeing what I get.
On August 28 2018 10:51 NonY wrote: Any other geared DPS beat on the training dummy for a while? I just did for 9 mins and finished at 8.8k dps. I made a few mistakes. But I'm not totally sure what set up is best anyway, so it's possible I was doing it wrong anyway. The WW community has a lot of theorycrafting to do I think.
i do about 8.5-9.5k over 7 mins as WW . but im also not 100% comfortable, i run into resource starvation issues once in a while if i mismanage the prio even once. If i had nicer weapons i could probably sustain 10 easily. Ofc its rarely a problem in
Its wierd and doesnt make alot of sense. Like Verse sims highest for me right now by alot.
Oh wow I wonder why I'm doing worse. You do about the same or higher but with worse gear. I tried a few different things but I always end up sub 9k.
But yeah, vers sims high for a lot of WW's now. It's the highest for me. And resource starvation seems unavoidable.
On August 28 2018 10:54 Cyro wrote: Dummy has some bugs which makes it not representative of patchwerk and i'm not about to pop BFA flasks & pots, battle shout etc to test DPS iterations; i will get some practice when the raid is out. My sim is something like 12.5k on 5 min patchwerk with all that stuff and doesn't change very much with fight length aside from the heroism buff being a strong influence, so shorter is generally higher.
Yeah I'm not prepping for raid. Just hitting the dummy for fun and seeing what I get.
Well 7 mins means i dont tail off after the third set of cds unless you were including another set of 2mins in your 8 min counter.
I just simmed you and you are about 300 more dps than me :O but your gear indeed is a fair bit stronger on paper ... doesnt really seem to fit. Maybe its the trinkets ?
It's the same for me. Haste is a relatively complex stat with changes in value depending on how much you have, the exact spec you're using and all that, it's understandable that it may be bad sometimes. It's #1 in some niche situations but too weak too often to prioritize it over Vers at the moment.
Crit and mastery are just damage multipliers so they're consistent in value and easy to math out; i don't see why Vers should beat either of them, especially by 26% (stat comparison sim with no weapon enchants and an equal amount of all 4 secondary stats). Ideally it'd be a bit weaker and function as a boring filler/defensive stat IMO.
On August 28 2018 13:56 Cyro wrote: It's the same for me. Haste is a relatively complex stat with changes in value depending on how much you have, the exact spec you're using and all that, it's understandable that it may be bad sometimes. It's #1 in some niche situations but too weak too often to prioritize it over Vers at the moment.
Crit and mastery are just damage multipliers so they're consistent in value and easy to math out; i don't see why Vers should beat either of them, especially by 26% (stat comparison sim with no weapon enchants and an equal amount of all 4 secondary stats). Ideally it'd be a bit weaker and function as a boring filler/defensive stat IMO.
Yeah and for WW atleast if mastery matterd more it would reward better play because it adds bonuses to combo strikes. So it would quite quickly mark the difference between a better or weaker player. I havent played anything else in yet, trying to find time to play mage, but I feel like every bonus from your best secondary should work in a way that rewards better play rather then just +X damage and Hp, Feels dumb
Haste is fun, mastery can be fun, crit can be fun (see fire mage, legion DH chaos strike modifier etc) - vers just doesn't do anything other than make numbers bigger. If you don't have a damage meter on you can't tell if you have 50% or 5% vers.
To have highly limited secondary stat budget and then focus it onto vers instead of those other stats is robbing the specs of the stats that they need to function in a fun and sometimes even healthy way right now. I'd like to see some changes in that area
On August 28 2018 14:47 Cyro wrote: Haste is fun, mastery can be fun, crit can be fun (see fire mage, legion DH chaos strike modifier etc) - vers just doesn't do anything other than make numbers bigger. If you don't have a damage meter on you can't tell if you have 50% or 5% vers.
To have highly limited secondary stat budget and then focus it onto vers instead of those other stats is robbing the specs of the stats that they need to function in a fun and sometimes even healthy way right now. I'd like to see some changes in that area
I dont know about chaos strike modifier.. all i got was 2 dhs whining who did more on an opener because the other 1 was "luckier" with crits..
And I mained mage last xpac and fire was fine but it was bit 1 dimensional.
A stat increasing the amount of resources that you generate or having mechanics like hot streak is noticable and impactful (although too much RNG is bad.. BFA havoc has a quarter of the ST RNG it had in Legion!) whereas a flat % damage increase doesn't change anything about how you play and isn't visible unless you have a damage meter addon on screen
you can really tell if you're playing a fire mage with 20% crit or with 50% crit
I really wanted to sim myself but couldnt get the download for the simulation thing to work, it keeps giving me strange suggestions such as crit vers gear, even though arms should be haste>crit.
though i can with mythic trinkets + in for the kill/enchant hit well over 60% haste but it shouldnt lose value that severely id think
On August 29 2018 17:43 arb wrote: I really wanted to sim myself but couldnt get the download for the simulation thing to work, it keeps giving me strange suggestions such as crit vers gear, even though arms should be haste>crit.
though i can with mythic trinkets + in for the kill/enchant hit well over 60% haste but it shouldnt lose value that severely id think
When people say like haste #1, that means that you should have more of haste than the other stats. The optimal stat layout is not 100% haste, 0% crit, 0% vers, 0% mastery unless the stats are extremely imbalanced, it's usually something more like 50% haste, 30% crit, 10% vers, 10% mastery which would be written as haste>crit>>vers/mastery
If you have a lot more haste than crit/vers then your gear is still haste based and it's not all that surprising for other stats to catch up in value. Stat recommendations are also based on a lot of stuff like how the damage is applied, multi-target scaling etc. Haste has breakpoints so it can be worth twice as much or half as much depending on the exact % that you have and you need to use haste plots to judge it well.
As you stack a stat it scales linearly but other stats multiply with it, that makes the other stats gain value relative to it and naturally balance out. If you're doing 30% more damage because of having a shit ton of haste then the DPS gain from 1 point of versatility has increased by 1.3x
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can confirm btw 23.08% AP requirement reduction from the artifact knowledge - 100/1.3^x. I stayed at the same % as before towards the next level
On August 29 2018 17:43 arb wrote: I really wanted to sim myself but couldnt get the download for the simulation thing to work, it keeps giving me strange suggestions such as crit vers gear, even though arms should be haste>crit.
though i can with mythic trinkets + in for the kill/enchant hit well over 60% haste but it shouldnt lose value that severely id think
When people say like haste #1, that means that you should have more of haste than the other stats. The optimal stat layout is not 100% haste, 0% crit, 0% vers, 0% mastery unless the stats are extremely imbalanced, it's usually something more like 50% haste, 30% crit, 10% vers, 10% mastery which would be written as haste>crit>>vers/mastery
If you have a lot more haste than crit/vers then your gear is still haste based and it's not all that surprising for other stats to catch up in value. Stat recommendations are also based on a lot of stuff like how the damage is applied, multi-target scaling etc. Haste has breakpoints so it can be worth twice as much or half as much depending on the exact % that you have and you need to use haste plots to judge it well.
As you stack a stat it scales linearly but other stats multiply with it, that makes the other stats gain value relative to it and naturally balance out. If you're doing 30% more damage because of having a shit ton of haste then the DPS gain from 1 point of versatility has increased by 1.3x
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can confirm btw 23.08% AP requirement reduction from the artifact knowledge - 100/1.3^x. I stayed at the same % as before towards the next level
https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/character/proudmoore/Appledog I don't have a super absurd amount of haste, but with everything coming up my haste can hit some pretty retarded numbers, but I'm just not 100% sure. Arms isnt the greatest spec currently, i can sustain 8-9k though without an issue in the big mobs open world though.
So you have enough stat points to put 625 in average stat but your layout is 1210 haste and 70 vers; three haste procs, no vers procs. It's very haste heavy ;D
Blizzard reduced mats needed to make feasts by essentially cutting the needed midnight salmon in a bit more than half
Pretty dumb to do this 2½ week into launch after many guilds and people already made their feasts for raid next week, those people are fucked out of a pretty expensive item for each feast they've made
Blizzard should've had the data on how much people fish, the droprate of midnight salmons (which can only efficiently be caught after 18:30) and even stuff like feast usage to determine if the requirements or droprates should be changed before launch
Luckily i'm not personally affected but a lot of my friends and their guilds already spent several thousand midnight salmon making feasts combined, and that's a lot of gold at the moment
On August 30 2018 03:29 Cyro wrote: So you have enough stat points to put 625 in average stat but your layout is 1210 haste and 70 vers; three haste procs, no vers procs. It's very haste heavy ;D
Id thought about maybe swapping gems or something, the helm im not really counting cause i plan on replacing it since they nerfed seismic wave so hard, i tried running simcraft but am not sure how to get stat weights from it so i cant really tell
On August 30 2018 16:50 Unleashing wrote: Blizzard reduced mats needed to make feasts by essentially cutting the needed midnight salmon in a bit more than half
Pretty dumb to do this 2½ week into launch after many guilds and people already made their feasts for raid next week, those people are fucked out of a pretty expensive item for each feast they've made
Blizzard should've had the data on how much people fish, the droprate of midnight salmons (which can only efficiently be caught after 18:30) and even stuff like feast usage to determine if the requirements or droprates should be changed before launch
Luckily i'm not personally affected but a lot of my friends and their guilds already spent several thousand midnight salmon making feasts combined, and that's a lot of gold at the moment
God dammit. I've been holding feasts to sell on raid week..Oh well.
But yeah, while i agree with you, the midnight salmon needed was a bit too much. I fished 25 salmons in about one and a half hours (after 18:30). That was 5 feasts worth.
A change was inevitable, same way that change to flasks is inevitable. The current mats + spawn rate for Anchor Weeds are simply not sustainable.
The only question is when it will come and that is, just like the real world, market speculation. Some people will be on time and win, some will be to late and lose.
On August 30 2018 17:47 Gorsameth wrote: A change was inevitable, same way that change to flasks is inevitable. The current mats + spawn rate for Anchor Weeds are simply not sustainable.
The only question is when it will come and that is, just like the real world, market speculation. Some people will be on time and win, some will be to late and lose.
Oh yeah. I'm just hoping the flask change doesn't hit before raids.
Anchor Weed spawn rate is abysmal. I was finishing the rank 3 anchor weed quest for 9 anchor pods couple days ago, farming Winter's kiss in Drustvar via server hopping. 2200 herbs later i finally got 7 of the remaining pods out of around 12-14 Anchor Weed spawns.
On August 30 2018 17:47 Gorsameth wrote: A change was inevitable, same way that change to flasks is inevitable. The current mats + spawn rate for Anchor Weeds are simply not sustainable.
The only question is when it will come and that is, just like the real world, market speculation. Some people will be on time and win, some will be to late and lose.
What he said, I held mats for specifically this reason. My experience tends to favor the idea that when things are painfully unsustainable the requirements will end up getting correcting.
And I am holding on to flask mats to. I dont need them for raiding and I sold stuff I dont plan to keep or has more value in being sold and isnt critical for me to keep. because its going to drop like hell when they fix it.
Im not raiding but my old horde guild that is quite competitive made the same decision, tbh it was kinda obvious to try and wait to the last minute.
On August 30 2018 16:50 Unleashing wrote: Blizzard reduced mats needed to make feasts by essentially cutting the needed midnight salmon in a bit more than half
Pretty dumb to do this 2½ week into launch after many guilds and people already made their feasts for raid next week, those people are fucked out of a pretty expensive item for each feast they've made
Blizzard should've had the data on how much people fish, the droprate of midnight salmons (which can only efficiently be caught after 18:30) and even stuff like feast usage to determine if the requirements or droprates should be changed before launch
Luckily i'm not personally affected but a lot of my friends and their guilds already spent several thousand midnight salmon making feasts combined, and that's a lot of gold at the moment
On August 30 2018 16:50 Unleashing wrote: Blizzard reduced mats needed to make feasts by essentially cutting the needed midnight salmon in a bit more than half
Pretty dumb to do this 2½ week into launch after many guilds and people already made their feasts for raid next week, those people are fucked out of a pretty expensive item for each feast they've made
Blizzard should've had the data on how much people fish, the droprate of midnight salmons (which can only efficiently be caught after 18:30) and even stuff like feast usage to determine if the requirements or droprates should be changed before launch
Luckily i'm not personally affected but a lot of my friends and their guilds already spent several thousand midnight salmon making feasts combined, and that's a lot of gold at the moment
On August 30 2018 16:50 Unleashing wrote: Blizzard reduced mats needed to make feasts by essentially cutting the needed midnight salmon in a bit more than half
Pretty dumb to do this 2½ week into launch after many guilds and people already made their feasts for raid next week, those people are fucked out of a pretty expensive item for each feast they've made
Blizzard should've had the data on how much people fish, the droprate of midnight salmons (which can only efficiently be caught after 18:30) and even stuff like feast usage to determine if the requirements or droprates should be changed before launch
Luckily i'm not personally affected but a lot of my friends and their guilds already spent several thousand midnight salmon making feasts combined, and that's a lot of gold at the moment
Where are you seeing that change?
in game ^^
Hm, no patch notes still - even on the next day hotfix notes
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We're 2 weeks deep into the expansion and still experiencing server lag very often to the point where i can't use momentum (vengeful retreat) properly with it having been added to the global cooldown. World & raid servers lag, the dungeon servers (and an occasional shard in the open world) don't have this lag and work fine.
Spell queue cannot fix this problem because you can't queue a spell which is on the GCD until the previous spell activates so it can't compensate for the server delay (sometimes measured in fractions of a second - hundreds of milliseconds, despite me having a 15ms ping to my server both via external tests and the ingame latency display). After the server lag i'm no longer in range to cast my spell for enemies with normal sized hitboxes so i lose most of a global doing nothing each VR (3 times per minute)
On the Legion design it could be cast at any time and was not on the normal spell queue; you could queue a spell and then hit VR afterwards and it would cast both abilities basically at the same time or one after the other without either affecting the other, it was very easy to do it consistently even with shit server performance.
EPT
