EPT[WoW] Battle for Azeroth - Page 349
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BfA Community Links: GP : https://www.worldofwarcraft.com/invite/KKMpKPSlgd?region=EU&faction=Horde TLEUH : https://www.worldofwarcraft.com/invite/v9x5bAF3jD?region=EU&faction=Horde TLEUA : https://www.worldofwarcraft.com/invite/ALwgJnC5Wo?region=EU&faction=Alliance TLNAH : https://www.worldofwarcraft.com/invite/vPrmjJxiVnJ?region=US&faction=Horde TLNAA : https://www.worldofwarcraft.com/invite/YeZj7P0SXLn?region=US&faction=Alliance Bnet: Bnet - https://blizzard.com/invite/amvLM0EubJv On November 03 2016 06:57 GTR wrote: I've created a Google Form/Spreadsheet for people to help add eachother. Hopefully this will makes things easier for us to find people for Mythic+ runs and what not as opposed to sifting through 150+ pages of discussion. Form Spreadsheet If a moderator could add this as a moderator note at the top it'd be appreciated. | ||
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stevemachine17
45 Posts
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Seuss
United States10536 Posts
To be clear, Cataclysm's old world revamp was done in an effort to retain new players. During WotLK new players weren't getting hooked on WoW as they had in Vanilla and BC, often getting bored and quitting before they even reached Outland, let alone Northrend. Both Blizzard and much of the playerbase (including me) believed that bringing the old world up to WotLK's standard was the ticket to retaining those new players until they could catch up with everyone else. That effort was ultimately misguided. Cataclysm failed because it misunderstood the problem. Yes, new players weren't being retained, but the old content wasn't at fault (though it wasn't exactly helpful). The inherent problem was that rolling a new character on practically any server post-WotLK was an incredibly lonely experience. What had kept players coming back in Vanilla/BC wasn't the content, it was the buzz and hubbub of players around them, and the fact that what they were doing was relevant to all the players they might talk to. Level boosts solve that problem by catapulting new players to the same content as everyone else. Instead of spending countless, lonely hours doing content nobody cares about with practically no one else around, they can be a part of the throng. When they talk to their buddies about the game, they're talking about the same thing. Blizzard giving level boosts out with each expansion isn't a mistake, it's a very smart move for making the game accessible for new players. Yeah, the old content is horribly imbalanced and poorly paced at this point, but it's also mostly irrelevant. As nice as a rebalance might be it's not likely to happen any time soon. | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20342 Posts
I think it is difficult to redo the old world and take into account heirlooms That's the thing, it's completely broken even without heirlooms because it's so far away from the correct tuning. The stat squishes and class reworks borked some numbers somewhere and nobody ever went back to check so naked people are walking around oneshotting everything. Flat 3-5x enemy health and 2x exp on everything would probably be a good start and wouldn't take that much dev time. Time to level would decrease, time to kill anything would increase a lot and combat would still be easy because player characters have a ridiculous amount of health and hp regen. There are mechanics in dungeons that would really hurt you pre-squish but now you can just stand in it, it hits for almost nothing and your natural health regen heals you faster than you're taking damage. That doesn't even have to go away; pre level cap can be invulnerable playground but the combat should work, naked chars shouldn't one shot world mobs, dungeon bosses should live long enough to be worth applying a DOT to. You should be able to feel your spec in some form before level 100. Those kinds of tuning changes do not need much work, it's hardly a cataclysm 2.0 - it's just going back to what the combat should play like below the level cap, what it did play like for most of its life before being inexplicably ruined | ||
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arb
Noobville17922 Posts
On November 01 2017 08:46 Cyro wrote: That's the thing, it's completely broken even without heirlooms because it's so far away from the correct tuning. The stat squishes and class reworks borked some numbers somewhere and nobody ever went back to check so naked people are walking around oneshotting everything. Flat 3-5x enemy health and 2x exp on everything would probably be a good start and wouldn't take that much dev time. Time to level would decrease, time to kill anything would increase a lot and combat would still be easy because player characters have a ridiculous amount of health and hp regen. There are mechanics in dungeons that would really hurt you pre-squish but now you can just stand in it, it hits for almost nothing and your natural health regen heals you faster than you're taking damage. That doesn't even have to go away; pre level cap can be invulnerable playground but the combat should work, naked chars shouldn't one shot world mobs, dungeon bosses should live long enough to be worth applying a DOT to. You should be able to feel your spec in some form before level 100. Those kinds of tuning changes do not need much work, it's hardly a cataclysm 2.0 - it's just going back to what the combat should play like below the level cap, what it did play like for most of its life before being inexplicably ruined by and large the worst class to level id say has to be warlocks, which is actually at its best stage in vanilla then gets worse in bc when everyones hitting for 6k and the bosses still only have 29k hp, same with wrath. sooooo unfun | ||
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Anlo
Sweden485 Posts
So, if that is the issue AND they add world-scaling that we have on the shore to EVERYWHERE you are good right? Because then you can do whatever you want whenever you want. Just keep questing and you wont do gray/green/useless quests simply for the reason that you wanted to complete Netherstorm or whatever zone/adventure you wanted? They'll now just keep being yellow quests forever. Scale everything and nobody should be able to one-shot anything. If they are SO SCARED of losing new players just implement a massive tutorial and give them all abilities by level 20. Now they can use those abilities to actually stay alive rather than click one button then maybe three by level 50 cause if they have one or three abilities they obviously need to be able to kill things anyways thus leading to anyone with any gear/skill or a potion to one-shot 10 mobs in a pack. I think they are just scared of demanding the smallest amount if interest from their players. If they then do world-scaling they can add whatever questchains, zones, missions, immersive scenarios, questhubs, small cities or what they want cause everyone can do. No matter what level they are, it is just scales up or down. Or am I missing something? | ||
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Anlo
Sweden485 Posts
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calgar
United States1277 Posts
On November 02 2017 10:08 Anlo wrote: It's a catch 22 - no matter what you do you will never be able to please everyone. With the focus on endgame there will always be tension with the early content seeming dead or pointless Isn't the issue everyone has with the old world, leveling, heirlooms etc that you outlevel things too fast though? So, if that is the issue AND they add world-scaling that we have on the shore to EVERYWHERE you are good right? Because then you can do whatever you want whenever you want. Just keep questing and you wont do gray/green/useless quests simply for the reason that you wanted to complete Netherstorm or whatever zone/adventure you wanted? They'll now just keep being yellow quests forever. Scale everything and nobody should be able to one-shot anything. If they are SO SCARED of losing new players just implement a massive tutorial and give them all abilities by level 20. Now they can use those abilities to actually stay alive rather than click one button then maybe three by level 50 cause if they have one or three abilities they obviously need to be able to kill things anyways thus leading to anyone with any gear/skill or a potion to one-shot 10 mobs in a pack. I think they are just scared of demanding the smallest amount if interest from their players. If they then do world-scaling they can add whatever questchains, zones, missions, immersive scenarios, questhubs, small cities or what they want cause everyone can do. No matter what level they are, it is just scales up or down. Or am I missing something? Your idea of scaling everything is possible but I think it would be very complicated to redo the intro content. You mention a massive tutorial but the starting zones and second zones are already very nicely done and function to do just that. Any time spent redoing things is sort of wasting it on 'dead' content that everyone is already past. The zones also have some identity attached to their level - does it really make sense to have a level 10 in Silithus or a 60 in the Barrens? I don't really know but I think you have to be really careful radically changing the broad feel of zones that have been in place since launch. Sure, it's good to take risks and change things up like cataclysm with zone redesign but you have to walk a careful line between keeping the 'old core' which people love and are attached to with new and refreshing features. | ||
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Anlo
Sweden485 Posts
If they just scale all of it they can put starterzones pretty much wherever they want and tie things in. You say: On November 02 2017 11:27 calgar wrote:The zones also have some identity attached to their level - does it really make sense to have a level 10 in Silithus or a 60 in the Barrens? and I think that they could pretty nicely tie in zones close-ish together in feel and a sense of epic scheme, same around starting areas and then just let it all free.Doubt anyone that does a level 10 run to Silithus, Winterspring or some other place that would take you 40min on foot would be surprised by feeling a tad out of place. (Let us pretend they bring in subraces, they could just plot out starting areas everywhere and it wouldn't matter because all the zones scale so you just go BUT I doubt subraces would be anything more than simply extended customizable options. One can always hope though, would be sweet with an entire wold alive at your level.) | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20342 Posts
BUT Legion fixed that with, technically atleast, all of Legion being "end-game". Have you been to the non-argus zones recently? I was doing WQ's with prydaz on and i noticed that a pack of 4 murlocs couldn't even break the prydaz shield any more, i could just stand there afk for half an hour and my char would still be alive meanwhile one hit to them procs inner demon and oneshot the whole pack of 4 this is despite having mobs scaling to be way stronger, like 1.5-2x stronger than usual because they're detecting that you have high item level gear; still not even close to appropriate, there's no sane way to make the numbers work. Scaling mobs even that much is a bad band-aid fix to a problem that has been created on purpose. dinging 110 we had ~100-150k simdps, early mythic raid we had 250k, in second tier gear we have 1700k. scaling across the game is completely fucked almost everywhere, just particularly bad at level 1-90. 100-110 is pretty great, the numbers suddenly make sense when crossing the barrier into the most recent expansion but they get broken again when hitting the runaway exponential gear scaling at level cap I would very much like to see next expansion have a DPS increase of 3-5x from dinging to t3 gear again instead of 25x. It's something that i've thought about every week for years and every time i am left wondering who chose to make the game this way and why they thought that it would be a good idea.. and why almost nobody is talking about it. This is the kind of basic math that is at the core of how the game works and feels to play, it's way more important than that. It's also a very low hanging fruit, low effort high return. | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22487 Posts
On November 02 2017 18:17 Cyro wrote: Have you been to the non-argus zones recently? I was doing WQ's with prydaz on and i noticed that a pack of 4 murlocs couldn't even break the prydaz shield any more, i could just stand there afk for half an hour and my char would still be alive meanwhile one hit to them procs inner demon and oneshot the whole pack of 4 this is despite having mobs scaling to be way stronger, like 1.5-2x stronger than usual because they're detecting that you have high item level gear; still not even close to appropriate, there's no sane way to make the numbers work. Scaling mobs even that much is a bad band-aid fix to a problem that has been created on purpose. dinging 110 we had ~100-150k simdps, early mythic raid we had 250k, in second tier gear we have 1700k. scaling across the game is completely fucked almost everywhere, just particularly bad at level 1-90. 100-110 is pretty great, the numbers suddenly make sense when crossing the barrier into the most recent expansion but they get broken again when hitting the runaway exponential gear scaling at level cap I would very much like to see next expansion have a DPS increase of 3-5x from dinging to t3 gear again instead of 25x. It's something that i've thought about every week for years and every time i am left wondering who chose to make the game this way and why they thought that it would be a good idea.. and why almost nobody is talking about it. This is the kind of basic math that is at the core of how the game works and feels to play, it's way more important than that. It's also a very low hanging fruit, low effort high return. Its been talked about a lot, both here and on other forums. | ||
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arb
Noobville17922 Posts
On November 02 2017 20:09 Gorsameth wrote: Its been talked about a lot, both here and on other forums. They said they were doing it since using legendary weapons well some of them, they want it to feel epic so they want raiders to see big ass numbers. next expansion we're gonna go down to doing like 5k dps lmao. and yes scaling in the old world is complete shit both in regular wow and legion, granted last time i played was night hold, but the "elite" mobs that used to give me trouble fresh 110 can be one shit by everything, and the 50mil hp mobs i could easily do 50% of their life with just draught(at the time it was imba, rip) then kill them in a few hits which seemed stupid for an "elite" quest | ||
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nimbim
Germany985 Posts
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Cyro
United Kingdom20342 Posts
In addition, whenever you type in a random url under the worldofwarcraft.com domain, you will be redirected to the url without any hyphens. (Example: worldofwarcraft.com/corgisunleashed redirects to worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/corgisunleashed) However, when typing in worldofwarcraft.com/battleforazeroth, you are redirected to a page in which hyphens are automatically added to the name: worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/battle-for-azeroth. which looks to be the best evidence we have so far | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22487 Posts
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lestye
United States4227 Posts
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Cyro
United Kingdom20342 Posts
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22487 Posts
#wowisdying /s Already tired of troll raids #newexpansion They screwed up Sylvanas by making her face to human imo. | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20342 Posts
below every other expansion aside from MOP on hype maybe Ion has some nice stuff to show | ||
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Atreides
United States2393 Posts
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Grettin
42411 Posts
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