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[WoW] Battle for Azeroth - Page 349

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BfA Community Links:
GP : https://www.worldofwarcraft.com/invite/KKMpKPSlgd?region=EU&faction=Horde
TLEUH : https://www.worldofwarcraft.com/invite/v9x5bAF3jD?region=EU&faction=Horde
TLEUA : https://www.worldofwarcraft.com/invite/ALwgJnC5Wo?region=EU&faction=Alliance
TLNAH : https://www.worldofwarcraft.com/invite/vPrmjJxiVnJ?region=US&faction=Horde
TLNAA : https://www.worldofwarcraft.com/invite/YeZj7P0SXLn?region=US&faction=Alliance
Bnet: Bnet - https://blizzard.com/invite/amvLM0EubJv

On November 03 2016 06:57 GTR wrote:
I've created a Google Form/Spreadsheet for people to help add eachother.

Hopefully this will makes things easier for us to find people for Mythic+ runs and what not as opposed to sifting through 150+ pages of discussion.

Form
Spreadsheet

If a moderator could add this as a moderator note at the top it'd be appreciated.
stevemachine17
Profile Joined April 2017
45 Posts
October 31 2017 20:40 GMT
#6961
I think it is difficult to redo the old world and take into account heirlooms, it kind of blocks off new players who want to experience the world. I think for Blizz that will be a tough mental hurdle to try and "close off" those players. I kinda feel like most new players would be getting in, boosting, and then grinding with friends. Then maybe later go back and do old world stuff, so I am of the opinion they should just optimize old world content for the dedicated wow players, and not focus on new player experience in the old world. I am very excited, I think scaling would be cool in old world, because i enjoy how quiet and serene solo questing is in the old world/TBC/etc
Seuss
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States10536 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-10-31 21:03:29
October 31 2017 21:02 GMT
#6962
The old world isn't going to see much attention because of level boosts. Level boosts solve the primary problem Cataclysm tried to address; there's a reason why you get one for free each expansion.

To be clear, Cataclysm's old world revamp was done in an effort to retain new players. During WotLK new players weren't getting hooked on WoW as they had in Vanilla and BC, often getting bored and quitting before they even reached Outland, let alone Northrend. Both Blizzard and much of the playerbase (including me) believed that bringing the old world up to WotLK's standard was the ticket to retaining those new players until they could catch up with everyone else. That effort was ultimately misguided.

Cataclysm failed because it misunderstood the problem. Yes, new players weren't being retained, but the old content wasn't at fault (though it wasn't exactly helpful). The inherent problem was that rolling a new character on practically any server post-WotLK was an incredibly lonely experience. What had kept players coming back in Vanilla/BC wasn't the content, it was the buzz and hubbub of players around them, and the fact that what they were doing was relevant to all the players they might talk to.

Level boosts solve that problem by catapulting new players to the same content as everyone else. Instead of spending countless, lonely hours doing content nobody cares about with practically no one else around, they can be a part of the throng. When they talk to their buddies about the game, they're talking about the same thing. Blizzard giving level boosts out with each expansion isn't a mistake, it's a very smart move for making the game accessible for new players.

Yeah, the old content is horribly imbalanced and poorly paced at this point, but it's also mostly irrelevant. As nice as a rebalance might be it's not likely to happen any time soon.
"I am not able to carry all this people alone, for they are too heavy for me." -Moses (Numbers 11:14)
Cyro
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United Kingdom20327 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-11-01 03:41:17
October 31 2017 23:46 GMT
#6963
I think it is difficult to redo the old world and take into account heirlooms


That's the thing, it's completely broken even without heirlooms because it's so far away from the correct tuning. The stat squishes and class reworks borked some numbers somewhere and nobody ever went back to check so naked people are walking around oneshotting everything.

Flat 3-5x enemy health and 2x exp on everything would probably be a good start and wouldn't take that much dev time.

Time to level would decrease, time to kill anything would increase a lot and combat would still be easy because player characters have a ridiculous amount of health and hp regen.

There are mechanics in dungeons that would really hurt you pre-squish but now you can just stand in it, it hits for almost nothing and your natural health regen heals you faster than you're taking damage. That doesn't even have to go away; pre level cap can be invulnerable playground but the combat should work, naked chars shouldn't one shot world mobs, dungeon bosses should live long enough to be worth applying a DOT to. You should be able to feel your spec in some form before level 100.

Those kinds of tuning changes do not need much work, it's hardly a cataclysm 2.0 - it's just going back to what the combat should play like below the level cap, what it did play like for most of its life before being inexplicably ruined
"oh my god my overclock... I got a single WHEA error on the 23rd hour, 9 minutes" -Belial88
arb
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
Noobville17922 Posts
November 01 2017 17:51 GMT
#6964
On November 01 2017 08:46 Cyro wrote:
Show nested quote +
I think it is difficult to redo the old world and take into account heirlooms


That's the thing, it's completely broken even without heirlooms because it's so far away from the correct tuning. The stat squishes and class reworks borked some numbers somewhere and nobody ever went back to check so naked people are walking around oneshotting everything.

Flat 3-5x enemy health and 2x exp on everything would probably be a good start and wouldn't take that much dev time.

Time to level would decrease, time to kill anything would increase a lot and combat would still be easy because player characters have a ridiculous amount of health and hp regen.

There are mechanics in dungeons that would really hurt you pre-squish but now you can just stand in it, it hits for almost nothing and your natural health regen heals you faster than you're taking damage. That doesn't even have to go away; pre level cap can be invulnerable playground but the combat should work, naked chars shouldn't one shot world mobs, dungeon bosses should live long enough to be worth applying a DOT to. You should be able to feel your spec in some form before level 100.

Those kinds of tuning changes do not need much work, it's hardly a cataclysm 2.0 - it's just going back to what the combat should play like below the level cap, what it did play like for most of its life before being inexplicably ruined

by and large the worst class to level id say has to be warlocks, which is actually at its best stage in vanilla then gets worse in bc when everyones hitting for 6k and the bosses still only have 29k hp, same with wrath.

sooooo unfun
Artillery spawned from the forges of Hell
Anlo
Profile Joined December 2013
Sweden485 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-11-02 01:20:56
November 02 2017 01:08 GMT
#6965
Isn't the issue everyone has with the old world, leveling, heirlooms etc that you outlevel things too fast though?
So, if that is the issue AND they add world-scaling that we have on the shore to EVERYWHERE you are good right?
Because then you can do whatever you want whenever you want. Just keep questing and you wont do gray/green/useless quests simply for the reason that you wanted to complete Netherstorm or whatever zone/adventure you wanted? They'll now just keep being yellow quests forever.
Scale everything and nobody should be able to one-shot anything. If they are SO SCARED of losing new players just implement a massive tutorial and give them all abilities by level 20. Now they can use those abilities to actually stay alive rather than click one button then maybe three by level 50 cause if they have one or three abilities they obviously need to be able to kill things anyways thus leading to anyone with any gear/skill or a potion to one-shot 10 mobs in a pack. I think they are just scared of demanding the smallest amount if interest from their players.

If they then do world-scaling they can add whatever questchains, zones, missions, immersive scenarios, questhubs, small cities or what they want cause everyone can do. No matter what level they are, it is just scales up or down.

Or am I missing something?
Anlo
Profile Joined December 2013
Sweden485 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-11-02 01:16:55
November 02 2017 01:15 GMT
#6966
I am greatly looking forward to Friday though, hope they are thinking crazily outside-the-box and we got some weird new things.
calgar
Profile Blog Joined November 2007
United States1277 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-11-02 02:29:38
November 02 2017 02:27 GMT
#6967
On November 02 2017 10:08 Anlo wrote:
Isn't the issue everyone has with the old world, leveling, heirlooms etc that you outlevel things too fast though?
So, if that is the issue AND they add world-scaling that we have on the shore to EVERYWHERE you are good right?
Because then you can do whatever you want whenever you want. Just keep questing and you wont do gray/green/useless quests simply for the reason that you wanted to complete Netherstorm or whatever zone/adventure you wanted? They'll now just keep being yellow quests forever.
Scale everything and nobody should be able to one-shot anything. If they are SO SCARED of losing new players just implement a massive tutorial and give them all abilities by level 20. Now they can use those abilities to actually stay alive rather than click one button then maybe three by level 50 cause if they have one or three abilities they obviously need to be able to kill things anyways thus leading to anyone with any gear/skill or a potion to one-shot 10 mobs in a pack. I think they are just scared of demanding the smallest amount if interest from their players.

If they then do world-scaling they can add whatever questchains, zones, missions, immersive scenarios, questhubs, small cities or what they want cause everyone can do. No matter what level they are, it is just scales up or down.

Or am I missing something?
It's a catch 22 - no matter what you do you will never be able to please everyone. With the focus on endgame there will always be tension with the early content seeming dead or pointless

Your idea of scaling everything is possible but I think it would be very complicated to redo the intro content. You mention a massive tutorial but the starting zones and second zones are already very nicely done and function to do just that. Any time spent redoing things is sort of wasting it on 'dead' content that everyone is already past.

The zones also have some identity attached to their level - does it really make sense to have a level 10 in Silithus or a 60 in the Barrens? I don't really know but I think you have to be really careful radically changing the broad feel of zones that have been in place since launch.

Sure, it's good to take risks and change things up like cataclysm with zone redesign but you have to walk a careful line between keeping the 'old core' which people love and are attached to with new and refreshing features.
Anlo
Profile Joined December 2013
Sweden485 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-11-02 03:30:01
November 02 2017 03:21 GMT
#6968
Well I think it could open up the world for them. Issue has always been that the actual world is huge but we play in two zones and maybe on a little island BUT Legion fixed that with, technically atleast, all of Legion being "end-game".
If they just scale all of it they can put starterzones pretty much wherever they want and tie things in.
You say:
On November 02 2017 11:27 calgar wrote:The zones also have some identity attached to their level - does it really make sense to have a level 10 in Silithus or a 60 in the Barrens?
and I think that they could pretty nicely tie in zones close-ish together in feel and a sense of epic scheme, same around starting areas and then just let it all free.

Doubt anyone that does a level 10 run to Silithus, Winterspring or some other place that would take you 40min on foot would be surprised by feeling a tad out of place.

(Let us pretend they bring in subraces, they could just plot out starting areas everywhere and it wouldn't matter because all the zones scale so you just go BUT I doubt subraces would be anything more than simply extended customizable options. One can always hope though, would be sweet with an entire wold alive at your level.)
Cyro
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United Kingdom20327 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-11-02 10:01:18
November 02 2017 09:17 GMT
#6969
BUT Legion fixed that with, technically atleast, all of Legion being "end-game".


Have you been to the non-argus zones recently? I was doing WQ's with prydaz on and i noticed that a pack of 4 murlocs couldn't even break the prydaz shield any more, i could just stand there afk for half an hour and my char would still be alive

meanwhile one hit to them procs inner demon and oneshot the whole pack of 4

this is despite having mobs scaling to be way stronger, like 1.5-2x stronger than usual because they're detecting that you have high item level gear; still not even close to appropriate, there's no sane way to make the numbers work. Scaling mobs even that much is a bad band-aid fix to a problem that has been created on purpose.

dinging 110 we had ~100-150k simdps, early mythic raid we had 250k, in second tier gear we have 1700k.

scaling across the game is completely fucked almost everywhere, just particularly bad at level 1-90. 100-110 is pretty great, the numbers suddenly make sense when crossing the barrier into the most recent expansion but they get broken again when hitting the runaway exponential gear scaling at level cap



I would very much like to see next expansion have a DPS increase of 3-5x from dinging to t3 gear again instead of 25x. It's something that i've thought about every week for years and every time i am left wondering who chose to make the game this way and why they thought that it would be a good idea.. and why almost nobody is talking about it. This is the kind of basic math that is at the core of how the game works and feels to play, it's way more important than that. It's also a very low hanging fruit, low effort high return.
"oh my god my overclock... I got a single WHEA error on the 23rd hour, 9 minutes" -Belial88
Gorsameth
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands22332 Posts
November 02 2017 11:09 GMT
#6970
On November 02 2017 18:17 Cyro wrote:
Show nested quote +
BUT Legion fixed that with, technically atleast, all of Legion being "end-game".


Have you been to the non-argus zones recently? I was doing WQ's with prydaz on and i noticed that a pack of 4 murlocs couldn't even break the prydaz shield any more, i could just stand there afk for half an hour and my char would still be alive

meanwhile one hit to them procs inner demon and oneshot the whole pack of 4

this is despite having mobs scaling to be way stronger, like 1.5-2x stronger than usual because they're detecting that you have high item level gear; still not even close to appropriate, there's no sane way to make the numbers work. Scaling mobs even that much is a bad band-aid fix to a problem that has been created on purpose.

dinging 110 we had ~100-150k simdps, early mythic raid we had 250k, in second tier gear we have 1700k.

scaling across the game is completely fucked almost everywhere, just particularly bad at level 1-90. 100-110 is pretty great, the numbers suddenly make sense when crossing the barrier into the most recent expansion but they get broken again when hitting the runaway exponential gear scaling at level cap



I would very much like to see next expansion have a DPS increase of 3-5x from dinging to t3 gear again instead of 25x. It's something that i've thought about every week for years and every time i am left wondering who chose to make the game this way and why they thought that it would be a good idea.. and why almost nobody is talking about it. This is the kind of basic math that is at the core of how the game works and feels to play, it's way more important than that. It's also a very low hanging fruit, low effort high return.

Its been talked about a lot, both here and on other forums.
It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death
arb
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
Noobville17922 Posts
November 02 2017 14:43 GMT
#6971
On November 02 2017 20:09 Gorsameth wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 02 2017 18:17 Cyro wrote:
BUT Legion fixed that with, technically atleast, all of Legion being "end-game".


Have you been to the non-argus zones recently? I was doing WQ's with prydaz on and i noticed that a pack of 4 murlocs couldn't even break the prydaz shield any more, i could just stand there afk for half an hour and my char would still be alive

meanwhile one hit to them procs inner demon and oneshot the whole pack of 4

this is despite having mobs scaling to be way stronger, like 1.5-2x stronger than usual because they're detecting that you have high item level gear; still not even close to appropriate, there's no sane way to make the numbers work. Scaling mobs even that much is a bad band-aid fix to a problem that has been created on purpose.

dinging 110 we had ~100-150k simdps, early mythic raid we had 250k, in second tier gear we have 1700k.

scaling across the game is completely fucked almost everywhere, just particularly bad at level 1-90. 100-110 is pretty great, the numbers suddenly make sense when crossing the barrier into the most recent expansion but they get broken again when hitting the runaway exponential gear scaling at level cap



I would very much like to see next expansion have a DPS increase of 3-5x from dinging to t3 gear again instead of 25x. It's something that i've thought about every week for years and every time i am left wondering who chose to make the game this way and why they thought that it would be a good idea.. and why almost nobody is talking about it. This is the kind of basic math that is at the core of how the game works and feels to play, it's way more important than that. It's also a very low hanging fruit, low effort high return.

Its been talked about a lot, both here and on other forums.

They said they were doing it since using legendary weapons well some of them, they want it to feel epic so they want raiders to see big ass numbers.

next expansion we're gonna go down to doing like 5k dps lmao.

and yes scaling in the old world is complete shit both in regular wow and legion, granted last time i played was night hold, but the "elite" mobs that used to give me trouble fresh 110 can be one shit by everything, and the 50mil hp mobs i could easily do 50% of their life with just draught(at the time it was imba, rip) then kill them in a few hits which seemed stupid for an "elite" quest
Artillery spawned from the forges of Hell
nimbim
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Germany985 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-11-03 14:39:03
November 02 2017 14:45 GMT
#6972
I'm not saying it's impossible, but actually scaling every single number that has 10+ modifiers is difficult to do and the sole reason Blizzard has a team of mathematicians.
Cyro
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United Kingdom20327 Posts
November 03 2017 16:58 GMT
#6973
There's a trademark for Battle for Azeroth and the WoW site is acting odd around it:

In addition, whenever you type in a random url under the worldofwarcraft.com domain, you will be redirected to the url without any hyphens.
(Example: worldofwarcraft.com/corgisunleashed redirects to worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/corgisunleashed)

However, when typing in worldofwarcraft.com/battleforazeroth, you are redirected to a page in which hyphens are automatically added to the name: worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/battle-for-azeroth.


which looks to be the best evidence we have so far
"oh my god my overclock... I got a single WHEA error on the 23rd hour, 9 minutes" -Belial88
Gorsameth
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands22332 Posts
November 03 2017 17:00 GMT
#6974
We'll know in about an hour.
It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death
lestye
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States4208 Posts
November 03 2017 17:31 GMT
#6975
From what I've read about the leaks so far, I'm interested in the keeping the conflict in Azeroth and developing the characters/intrigue, but I think thats an awful name.
"You guys are just edgelords. Embrace your inner weeb desu" -Zergneedsfood
Cyro
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United Kingdom20327 Posts
November 03 2017 19:01 GMT
#6976
Here we go Legacy servers
"oh my god my overclock... I got a single WHEA error on the 23rd hour, 9 minutes" -Belial88
Gorsameth
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands22332 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-11-03 19:14:52
November 03 2017 19:03 GMT
#6977
Blizzard turning to classic servers.

#wowisdying /s

Already tired of troll raids
#newexpansion

They screwed up Sylvanas by making her face to human imo.
It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death
Cyro
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United Kingdom20327 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-11-03 19:09:15
November 03 2017 19:07 GMT
#6978
Yeah that was pretty underwhelming IMO

below every other expansion aside from MOP on hype

maybe Ion has some nice stuff to show
"oh my god my overclock... I got a single WHEA error on the 23rd hour, 9 minutes" -Belial88
Atreides
Profile Joined October 2010
United States2393 Posts
November 03 2017 19:20 GMT
#6979
nothing can be as bad as the mop cinematic, but yeh....
Grettin
Profile Joined April 2010
42397 Posts
November 03 2017 19:24 GMT
#6980
Well. Legacy servers are here.. Lets see how Blizzard does it.
"If I had force-fields in Brood War, I'd never lose." -Bisu
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