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This is why I dislike how they are tuning everything.
They are tuning too much around sets and legendaries.
Rogues atm are in a pretty bad spot (mostly PvP wise, but some PvE too). Outlaw is getting nerfed even more due to our legendary wrists (which many people don't have). Between the eyes (20s ranged damage/stun) is losing its 400% damage when it crits modifier and its getted passed on to the wrists (After BtE your next pistol shot/blunderbuss does 400% damage. Getting buffed from 400% to 700%). So we lose base damage to gain damage there, but thats only if you have the legendary. Without the extra crit damage almost all outlaw rogues will not use BtE because its not worth the damage compared to Run Through.
Deeper Stratagem getting nerfed across all our specs because its just better than the other talents in ST damage. So instead of Blizzard say 'Were going to look at mandatory talents and try to adjust others to make them more compelling' was more 'Were going to nerf the best talents to be as bad as the others'. Even Exsanguiate which is a great talent is competitive with Agonizing posion and its getting nerfed by another 20% (100% faster bleeds to 80% faster bleeds).
And that isn't even PvP none sense where atm rogues are in a terrible spot (lol 2.2 Million hp in pvp with 50% less agi due to pvp zone...).
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Where the heck are you reading these new spriest changes? I can't see them on MMO champ.
oh nvm there they are. yea shadow seems fucked. oh well, disc and holy for me then.
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They changed Nightbane, dot does now dmg to the guy with the dot and not the tank. So dispelling is kinda mandatory now.
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Netherlands45349 Posts
I am uncertain as to how that new MM legendary really works that is coming out but if it really allows you to basically cast Aimed shot while moving then that is some broken shit.
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On November 16 2016 22:53 Alventenie wrote:
This is why I dislike how they are tuning everything.
They are tuning too much around sets and legendaries.
Rogues atm are in a pretty bad spot (mostly PvP wise, but some PvE too). Outlaw is getting nerfed even more due to our legendary wrists (which many people don't have). Between the eyes (20s ranged damage/stun) is losing its 400% damage when it crits modifier and its getted passed on to the wrists (After BtE your next pistol shot/blunderbuss does 400% damage. Getting buffed from 400% to 700%). So we lose base damage to gain damage there, but thats only if you have the legendary. Without the extra crit damage almost all outlaw rogues will not use BtE because its not worth the damage compared to Run Through.
Deeper Stratagem getting nerfed across all our specs because its just better than the other talents in ST damage. So instead of Blizzard say 'Were going to look at mandatory talents and try to adjust others to make them more compelling' was more 'Were going to nerf the best talents to be as bad as the others'. Even Exsanguiate which is a great talent is competitive with Agonizing posion and its getting nerfed by another 20% (100% faster bleeds to 80% faster bleeds).
And that isn't even PvP none sense where atm rogues are in a terrible spot (lol 2.2 Million hp in pvp with 50% less agi due to pvp zone...).
At this Point i think the class design is handled by a drunken monkey... at least i'm pretty sure they design random shit and then add numbers to it to make it "kinda" even among classes, then realise the numbers people in alpha told them allready will be problematic are in fact problematic, then they pannick and go full retard.
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On November 17 2016 00:31 Kipsate wrote:
I am uncertain as to how that new MM legendary really works that is coming out but if it really allows you to basically cast Aimed shot while moving then that is some broken shit.
Unless there's an ICD to it, I understand it as " allow you to cast 50% of aimshot while moving "
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8751 Posts
On November 16 2016 20:10 Redox wrote:
Oh I just noticed the only spell change for Mistweaver on PTR. Renewing Mist nerfed by 9%. >_<
Yeah ok the spell is pretty strong, but it is not like monk heal overall is op. Far from it.
they have to nerf it a lot more to discourage MW from using it. it's a pretty boring ability but 9% nerf is just gonna make us play exactly the same and renewing mist will do 9% less healing. weird change
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It's not renewing mist that is listed in the spell changes (unless its undocumented). The only thing listed is Soothing mist from 1+70% SP to 1+64%SP. I also think its a tooltip update since I think on live soothing already does 1+64% SP from what I have heard from others.
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8751 Posts
On November 17 2016 03:56 Alventenie wrote:
It's not renewing mist that is listed in the spell changes (unless its undocumented). The only thing listed is Soothing mist from 1+70% SP to 1+64%SP. I also think its a tooltip update since I think on live soothing already does 1+64% SP from what I have heard from others.
yeah soothing mist was changed a bit ago
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On November 17 2016 03:56 Alventenie wrote:
It's not renewing mist that is listed in the spell changes (unless its undocumented). The only thing listed is Soothing mist from 1+70% SP to 1+64%SP. I also think its a tooltip update since I think on live soothing already does 1+64% SP from what I have heard from others.
Ya sorry my bad, completely misread that one.
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Lalalaland34496 Posts
Yay, Dragons down, and scored 98th percentile while doing so. 4/7 Mythic now.
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United Kingdom20322 Posts
Gz :D
7 people from my friends new guild just got banned mid-raid today for exploiting the world quest AP bug http://blue.mmo-champion.com/topic/784368-people-exploiting-a-wq-today/
The account actions taken today were generally in direct proportion to the degree of abuse. Players who may have innocently repeated the quest just a few times were not actioned. But on the other end of the spectrum, some who managed to fit in literally hundreds of completions, forming groups to do so, received far more serious penalties.
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so i don't know much about the class changes except for what i've seen on reddit and guildchat
tl;dr almost every dps specs are getting royally fucked over by the balance team, because the balance team expected the encounter team to carry the expansion for them?
legion has been fucking amazing but my god the class reworks were awful enough, now we have this shitshow in the PTR
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On November 17 2016 09:22 Stancel wrote:
so i don't know much about the class changes except for what i've seen on reddit and guildchat
tl;dr almost every dps specs are getting royally fucked over by the balance team, because the balance team expected the encounter team to carry the expansion for them?
legion has been fucking amazing but my god the class reworks were awful enough, now we have this shitshow in the PTR
They are moving to address what I highlighted here on my initial thoughts on single target encounters etc when I first started playing dungeons and raids as fire 3-4 weeks back, i.e your ROP-Combustion phase makes or breaks your dps. a unbuffed a hard cast fireball at my 870ish ilevel with a 1.7-8 cast time hits for 65k roughly. Thats abysmal. There are plenty of ways to augment this, but once you have used up your openers you are basically sitting their praying to the heavens for crit chains because the moment you dont proc a hotstreak you drop like 10 percent on average. And crit has a soft cap on it anyway and theres no more room for me to gain any more crit without diminishing returns anymore.. now im actually looking at secondry stats. Mastery is also pretty useless on single target but essential for your cleave so its like.. well wtf how many gear sets for 1 specc should I need...
Especially when it comes to progression where after your opener unless you have a 110percent farmlike understanding of a fight the only way to optimize your cooldown usage is luck.. i mean sure luck plays a part for everyone and fight mechanics "should" play a role in how you manage your cooldowns but when all of your damage burst relies on executing those combos as quickly as possible you end up sitting in spots where if you fail to align them (which happens, it has to) you are now instead of losing a bit, just in the shitter period. Thats a terribly low margin of error for progression on a class and spec that is struggling at the higher levels of gear and progression anyway.
Also Scorch hits like a wet noodle and if they take icefloes away then I dont even care that i have sephuz secret and not the pyro legendary because no ones going to stand there and cast a 4 sec pyro without being able to move in 90 percent of encounters.
Its too lopsided, too rng and doesnt scale at all like other classes do, I think they are moving to address these things and its just the first PTR build so give them the benefit of the doubt and lets see how they tune it. Or take a gun to your subscription/reroll
+ Show Spoiler [other specs] +I only just started dumping ap into frost so its only like 21ish and I havent had a chance to play it seriously to have many thoughts on it or be skilled at enough at it to comment, same for arcane.
+ Show Spoiler [afterthought, just read it] +Another thing they say they want to address is how op our Cleave's are in big pull mythics.. (which are great and all) but thats gimicky and you dont need to be particularly skilled to do it also I dont mind mythics because im a casual but I would be plenty miffed I was a serious raider if they were nerfing stuff because it was op in mythic+ because seriously.. fuck that,
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On November 17 2016 10:32 Rebs wrote:Show nested quote +On November 17 2016 09:22 Stancel wrote:
so i don't know much about the class changes except for what i've seen on reddit and guildchat
tl;dr almost every dps specs are getting royally fucked over by the balance team, because the balance team expected the encounter team to carry the expansion for them?
legion has been fucking amazing but my god the class reworks were awful enough, now we have this shitshow in the PTR They are moving to address what I highlighted here on my initial thoughts on single target encounters etc when I first started playing dungeons and raids as fire 3-4 weeks back, i.e your ROP-Combustion phase makes or breaks your dps. a unbuffed a hard cast fireball at my 870ish ilevel with a 1.7-8 cast time hits for 65k roughly. Thats abysmal. There are plenty of ways to augment this, but once you have used up your openers you are basically sitting their praying to the heavens for crit chains because the moment you dont proc a hotstreak you drop like 10 percent on average. And crit has a soft cap on it anyway and theres no more room for me to gain any more crit without diminishing returns anymore.. now im actually looking at secondry stats. Mastery is also pretty useless on single target but essential for your cleave so its like.. well wtf how many gear sets for 1 specc should I need... Especially when it comes to progression where after your opener unless you have a 110percent farmlike understanding of a fight the only way to optimize your cooldown usage is luck.. i mean sure luck plays a part for everyone and fight mechanics "should" play a role in how you manage your cooldowns but when all of your damage burst relies on executing those combos as quickly as possible you end up sitting in spots where if you fail to align them (which happens, it has to) you are now instead of losing a bit, just in the shitter period. Thats a terribly low margin of error for progression on a class and spec that is struggling at the higher levels of gear and progression anyway. Also Scorch hits like a wet noodle and if they take icefloes away then I dont even care that i have sephuz secret and not the pyro legendary because no ones going to stand there and cast a 4 sec pyro without being able to move in 90 percent of encounters. Its too lopsided, too rng and doesnt scale at all like other classes do, I think they are moving to address these things and its just the first PTR build so give them the benefit of the doubt and lets see how they tune it. Or take a gun to your subscription/reroll + Show Spoiler [other specs] +I only just started dumping ap into frost so its only like 21ish and I havent had a chance to play it seriously to have many thoughts on it or be skilled at enough at it to comment, same for arcane. Another thing they say they want to address is how op our Cleave's are in big pull mythics.. (which are great and all) but thats gimicky and you dont need to be particularly skilled to do it also I dont mind mythics because im a casual but I would be plenty miffed I was a serious raider if they were nerfing stuff because it was op in mythic+ because seriously.. fuck that,
I'm playing fire mage and have been playing mage a very long time, so while I'm not raiding or M+ or anything serious right now I really love to hear discussion like yours. I have some thoughts:
- Is it not possible to stabilize the fire rotation and emphasis on crit by simply reducing the amount of damage a pyro does and consequently increasing the damage fireball does? If pyros and lucky crit chains (and the huge opener) are too unpredictable and cause massive variance/swings in damage, why can't the damage ratio of pyro and fireball just be tuned to keep the average dps similar over long periods of time but reduce the spikes and hot streaks?
- With living bomb / cleave, why not just make living bomb only spread to X targets on explosion, instead of EVERYONE? Didn't it used to be this way? Living bomb spreads to up to max 3 targets or something? With a change like this it'd still maintain its functionality in smaller pulls and dungeons but you wouldn't get insane peaks when living bomb spreads to 10-20 targets or whatever. That is the "problem" right?
Both of the above changes seem reasonable but it's always a case of "well if those are my thoughts the design team MUST have already considered that right? I certainly am not the only one..."
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On November 17 2016 11:27 Duka08 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 17 2016 10:32 Rebs wrote:On November 17 2016 09:22 Stancel wrote:
so i don't know much about the class changes except for what i've seen on reddit and guildchat
tl;dr almost every dps specs are getting royally fucked over by the balance team, because the balance team expected the encounter team to carry the expansion for them?
legion has been fucking amazing but my god the class reworks were awful enough, now we have this shitshow in the PTR They are moving to address what I highlighted here on my initial thoughts on single target encounters etc when I first started playing dungeons and raids as fire 3-4 weeks back, i.e your ROP-Combustion phase makes or breaks your dps. a unbuffed a hard cast fireball at my 870ish ilevel with a 1.7-8 cast time hits for 65k roughly. Thats abysmal. There are plenty of ways to augment this, but once you have used up your openers you are basically sitting their praying to the heavens for crit chains because the moment you dont proc a hotstreak you drop like 10 percent on average. And crit has a soft cap on it anyway and theres no more room for me to gain any more crit without diminishing returns anymore.. now im actually looking at secondry stats. Mastery is also pretty useless on single target but essential for your cleave so its like.. well wtf how many gear sets for 1 specc should I need... Especially when it comes to progression where after your opener unless you have a 110percent farmlike understanding of a fight the only way to optimize your cooldown usage is luck.. i mean sure luck plays a part for everyone and fight mechanics "should" play a role in how you manage your cooldowns but when all of your damage burst relies on executing those combos as quickly as possible you end up sitting in spots where if you fail to align them (which happens, it has to) you are now instead of losing a bit, just in the shitter period. Thats a terribly low margin of error for progression on a class and spec that is struggling at the higher levels of gear and progression anyway. Also Scorch hits like a wet noodle and if they take icefloes away then I dont even care that i have sephuz secret and not the pyro legendary because no ones going to stand there and cast a 4 sec pyro without being able to move in 90 percent of encounters. Its too lopsided, too rng and doesnt scale at all like other classes do, I think they are moving to address these things and its just the first PTR build so give them the benefit of the doubt and lets see how they tune it. Or take a gun to your subscription/reroll + Show Spoiler [other specs] +I only just started dumping ap into frost so its only like 21ish and I havent had a chance to play it seriously to have many thoughts on it or be skilled at enough at it to comment, same for arcane. Another thing they say they want to address is how op our Cleave's are in big pull mythics.. (which are great and all) but thats gimicky and you dont need to be particularly skilled to do it also I dont mind mythics because im a casual but I would be plenty miffed I was a serious raider if they were nerfing stuff because it was op in mythic+ because seriously.. fuck that, I'm playing fire mage and have been playing mage a very long time, so while I'm not raiding or M+ or anything serious right now I really love to hear discussion like yours. I have some thoughts: - Is it not possible to stabilize the fire rotation and emphasis on crit by simply reducing the amount of damage a pyro does and consequently increasing the damage fireball does? If pyros and lucky crit chains (and the huge opener) are too unpredictable and cause massive variance/swings in damage, why can't the damage ratio of pyro and fireball just be tuned to keep the average dps similar over long periods of time but reduce the spikes and hot streaks? - With living bomb / cleave, why not just make living bomb only spread to X targets on explosion, instead of EVERYONE? Didn't it used to be this way? Living bomb spreads to up to max 3 targets or something? With a change like this it'd still maintain its functionality in smaller pulls and dungeons but you wouldn't get insane peaks when living bomb spreads to 10-20 targets or whatever. That is the "problem" right? Both of the above changes seem reasonable but it's always a case of "well if those are my thoughts the design team MUST have already considered that right? I certainly am not the only one..."
-I think the stabilizing bit and what you mentioned is what they are looking for and that seems to be the overwhelming feedback aswell, because at this point the scaling has nowhere to go.
I raided hard from mid mid BC-first tier of Cata and I was honestly shocked that six years since I quit they have never even bothered to fix ignite munching and this is after 6 years of letting it go by unchecked since the game started. So basically never. Even a basic weave function so atleast your running ignite doesnt get eaten by a shit one would make mastery way more useful on single target.
I dont mind that LB spreads indefinitely and unless you are making stupidly large pulls (at which point you overgear content anyway) its not that big a deal. Besides casuals dont care about that stuff and for a mythic raiders dungeons is just stuff "you have to do" alot of the time so its not really a prickly topic.
Besides its gimmicky at best and personally I kinda a like it because it allows me to be lazy and not have to use a mouse over macro like I used to in WOTLK when it was an unlimited spread. (and even then it never even came close to warlock seed spam). High tier Progression fights are normally tuned so that you dont just spam aoe like a moron and should do it in a controlled manner (if you are in a good guild anyway where people respect mechanics and dont care about charts) so its kinda ok for that too.
And yeah its not like your are fresh so they probably have thought of it, but throughout its history tuning spells for so many classes and so many specs, so much gear and so many talents (well not so many anymore) has always been a tricky business and I am sympathetic to the resistance to changes so quick. Rolling out patches all the time is hard and bad practice to boot. So they tend to let things run for a while.
Im not critical of the fact that they are resistant to changing or fixing stuff. Classes bounce up and down all the time, its something I learnt to accept a long time ago and doesnt bother me much if I am to keep my sanity playing the game. Im just surprised they were lazy enough to either not realize, or not do enough about the fact that the scaling for fire mages specifically was going nowhere.
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Lvling up an alt atm. Do I have to collect the two other artifacts if I'm only gonna play one spec? I forgot. Like, do I need to do it for 3rd relic slot?
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United Kingdom20322 Posts
legion has been fucking amazing but my god the class reworks were awful enough, now we have this shitshow in the PTR
I think that most people (like in sc2) don't understand the difference between a balance and design change. They're too busy talking about a temporary 10% DPS loss to see the real point of the changes
they have never even bothered to fix ignite munching
Really? Even DH has a DOT which adds its own damage to itself when you reapply it while it's still ticking
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EPT
