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Please stop discussing BW vs. SC2. Discussions after page 10 will be actioned. |
On January 05 2015 06:33 Falling wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2015 06:28 _Animus_ wrote:On January 05 2015 04:15 Strela wrote:On January 04 2015 18:13 PharaphobiaSC2 wrote:Perfect expample, that Blizzard did terrible job with StarCraft 2! :E but, glad this guy is still around  ! Just because someone can't make the transition to a new game or doesn't have the skill for it, it doesn't mean blizzard did a bad job or that sc2 is a bad game. Its not about that, Blizzard killed starcraft scene in korea with SC2, NOBODY wants to watch sc2, halls are empty and vewer count is embarrasingly low (ogn admited it a year ago), thats what they did by replacing bw with sc2! Again im talking about Korea and im angry cuz they killed such great passionate scene to leave nothing afterwards. I and not only me for sure wouldve understand if sc2 was going strong and players wasnt leaving so much in dissapointment, thats destroyed careers and dreams of people you know. Then be happy that good things are happening to bw again. Three years is a long time to remain angry and doesn't really change anything except to make yourself personally miserable.
Im happy with recent bw things, but its way below than what was before, which couldve been avoided.
Although my post can appear angry i personally dont care as much as before. Its just that my oppinion has not changed since facts remain the same and blizzard continue to be dumb.
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On January 05 2015 07:56 _Animus_ wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2015 06:33 Falling wrote:On January 05 2015 06:28 _Animus_ wrote:On January 05 2015 04:15 Strela wrote:On January 04 2015 18:13 PharaphobiaSC2 wrote:Perfect expample, that Blizzard did terrible job with StarCraft 2! :E but, glad this guy is still around ! Just because someone can't make the transition to a new game or doesn't have the skill for it, it doesn't mean blizzard did a bad job or that sc2 is a bad game. Its not about that, Blizzard killed starcraft scene in korea with SC2, NOBODY wants to watch sc2, halls are empty and vewer count is embarrasingly low (ogn admited it a year ago), thats what they did by replacing bw with sc2! Again im talking about Korea and im angry cuz they killed such great passionate scene to leave nothing afterwards. I and not only me for sure wouldve understand if sc2 was going strong and players wasnt leaving so much in dissapointment, thats destroyed careers and dreams of people you know. Then be happy that good things are happening to bw again. Three years is a long time to remain angry and doesn't really change anything except to make yourself personally miserable. Im happy with recent bw things, but its way below than what was before, which couldve been avoided. Although my post can appear angry i personally dont care as much as before. Its just that my oppinion has not changed since facts remain the same and blizzard continue to be dumb.
it shows how awesome this community and this game is, that we are coming back despite of it. Players are returning, we have two Starleagues running etc etc. Broodwar can't be stopped it seems, because it's fans actually care about the game. So let us enjoy the good times and leave behind the bad times (;
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Wooooooooooooo go CJ Effort!
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Amusingly, what happened three years ago appears to be happening now, only it's SC2 that's fading and BW emerging.
The bitterness people feel towards Blizzard is understandable. What Mike Morhaime said directly after the final OSL was appalling (Paraphrased: "Brood War's departure is a good thing and will help pave way for SC2."). Instead of appearing impressive in the eyes of many by having a video game that has stood the test of time, Blizzard now appears greedy, selfish and entirely dumb in the eyes of everyone for killing it off in trying to make SC2 as successful as possible. They could have, you know, continued to support both games.
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Sorry I left Jangbi out. It's mostly that I'm baffled by him beating so many legends with such a brutish style. Whenever he loses I can always point out exactly why, but when he wins while making comparable errors in play I'm left to chalk it up to transcendent gamesense.
But on further reflection, that is the essence of S-class right there, where the deciding blow is struck on that inperceivable layer.
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On January 05 2015 04:52 rift wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2015 04:25 Lazare1969 wrote:
Complaining about SC2 and Blizzard's actions is totally pointless because it was all inevitable.
Blizzard made the right business choice, just like with Diablo 3.
With Starcraft Broodwar, Blizzard hardly made any money because of the rampant piracy (due of LAN and private servers), and the very low selling price of the game.
Guys, someone has to pay for Bobby Kotick's yacht and Mike Morhaime's mansion. Money doesn't grow on trees, it comes from you, the customers.
If I was the CEO of Blizzard, I would do whatever it takes to cash in on the Starcraft name, by making a piracy-proof sequel that is intended to replace the poorly-earning original game.
As CEO of Blizzard, I would do whatever it takes to convince my customers that they don't really need LAN, and that we are truly committed on providing an excellent gameplay experience to the fullest extent of our PR campaigning. List of best-selling PC games: StarCraft - 11 million, 5th all time StarCraft 2 - 6 million
1998 to 2004 - 9.5m copies of StarCraft sold at full price
2004 to 2011 - 1.5m copies of StarCraft sold at reduced price
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On January 05 2015 12:02 Lazare1969 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2015 04:52 rift wrote:On January 05 2015 04:25 Lazare1969 wrote:
Complaining about SC2 and Blizzard's actions is totally pointless because it was all inevitable.
Blizzard made the right business choice, just like with Diablo 3.
With Starcraft Broodwar, Blizzard hardly made any money because of the rampant piracy (due of LAN and private servers), and the very low selling price of the game.
Guys, someone has to pay for Bobby Kotick's yacht and Mike Morhaime's mansion. Money doesn't grow on trees, it comes from you, the customers.
If I was the CEO of Blizzard, I would do whatever it takes to cash in on the Starcraft name, by making a piracy-proof sequel that is intended to replace the poorly-earning original game.
As CEO of Blizzard, I would do whatever it takes to convince my customers that they don't really need LAN, and that we are truly committed on providing an excellent gameplay experience to the fullest extent of our PR campaigning. List of best-selling PC games: StarCraft - 11 million, 5th all time StarCraft 2 - 6 million 1998 to 2004 - 9.5m copies of StarCraft sold at full price 2004 to 2011 - 1.5m copies of StarCraft sold at reduced price
Still incredibly impressive sales (and still more than SC2).
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Bisutopia19302 Posts
Effort returning now is far more important then his last return. Let's hope he can get back to form quick enough.
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On January 05 2015 08:27 Cele wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2015 07:56 _Animus_ wrote:On January 05 2015 06:33 Falling wrote:On January 05 2015 06:28 _Animus_ wrote:On January 05 2015 04:15 Strela wrote:On January 04 2015 18:13 PharaphobiaSC2 wrote:Perfect expample, that Blizzard did terrible job with StarCraft 2! :E but, glad this guy is still around ! Just because someone can't make the transition to a new game or doesn't have the skill for it, it doesn't mean blizzard did a bad job or that sc2 is a bad game. Its not about that, Blizzard killed starcraft scene in korea with SC2, NOBODY wants to watch sc2, halls are empty and vewer count is embarrasingly low (ogn admited it a year ago), thats what they did by replacing bw with sc2! Again im talking about Korea and im angry cuz they killed such great passionate scene to leave nothing afterwards. I and not only me for sure wouldve understand if sc2 was going strong and players wasnt leaving so much in dissapointment, thats destroyed careers and dreams of people you know. Then be happy that good things are happening to bw again. Three years is a long time to remain angry and doesn't really change anything except to make yourself personally miserable. Im happy with recent bw things, but its way below than what was before, which couldve been avoided. Although my post can appear angry i personally dont care as much as before. Its just that my oppinion has not changed since facts remain the same and blizzard continue to be dumb. it shows how awesome this community and this game is, that we are coming back despite of it. Players are returning, we have two Starleagues running etc etc. Broodwar can't be stopped it seems, because it's fans actually care about the game. So let us enjoy the good times and leave behind the bad times (;
just by reading everyones comments ive seen new names. more viewers more passion :D
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On January 05 2015 00:20 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:
amazing
OOOOOOO MY GOD NAZGUL DROPPED A COMMENT =00000000000000000000000 Sonic craft revival!!!!
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On January 04 2015 20:14 Probemicro wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2015 20:01 Thinasy wrote:
Just above average? what did I just read.
Also your post regarding win rate is stupid, the difference in their actual skill in ZvT is huge. Soulkey had flaws that stopped him from winning a title, but nontheless he's played some of the best ZvT games during the 2010-2012 period without a doubt zero played many top tier games as well, with flashy heavy queen usage in zvt, and hive zvz which not many zergs dare to venture into. oh zero has bad zvt compared to soulkey's top tier zvt. why does soulkey not have say 60% win rate then? are you going to say something about arbitrary "flaws". or you are just going terran imba/tank OP?
Because, starting from 2010 SK played 47 of his 58 matches against terrans with winrates of 55% or greater, and 38 of his 58 matches against terrans with winrates above 60% in TvZ.
Not to mention SK was an up and coming player, if you look at his games from 2011 on he had a 59.4% ZvT win rate, with 2/3 of those games coming against terrans with a TvZ win ratio of greater than 60%. There is a very, very strong argument to be made for SK being one of the top two or three ZvTers in the modern era. Not the least of which another part of is that SK is the main refiner and pioneer of modern ZvMech, and played that better than any other zerg, arguably including Jaedong.
The only compelling, though strong, argument for Soulkey not being one of the top three zergs would be his relative weakness is individual leagues. His showings there, especially for a player of his caliber, were lackluster...and that is being generous.
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On January 04 2015 23:18 L_Master wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2015 21:44 lemmata wrote:On January 04 2015 20:21 ForTehDarkseid wrote:On January 04 2015 20:14 Probemicro wrote:
oh zero has bad zvt compared to soulkey's top tier zvt. why does soulkey not have say 60% win rate then? Because ZerO was ZvP specialist in Woongjin, he played less Terrans in Proleague. Except ZerO played more games against Terran in Proleague than Soulkey did. Most of Soulkey's advantage in ZvT comes from the small-time events. Soulkey 23-23 ZvT in Proleague proper (excludes event team leagues and JV leagues) Zero 38-35 ZvT in Proleague proper (excludes event team leagues and JV leagues) Soulkey 5-4 ZvT in OSL/MSL main tournaments Zero 14-11 ZvT in OSL/MSL main tournaments Soulkey 1-6 vs Flash Zero 4-7 vs Flash Soulkey 7-1 vs Fantasy Zero 5-9 vs Fantasy Basically, the difference in their ZvT comes down to their individual differences against a single player: Fantasy. Zero also had the "misfortune" of advancing far in individual leagues, which led him to face more top Terrans in high-stakes series. There's no strong evidence to suggest that Soulkey was significantly better than ZerO at ZvT. People can also certainly believe that Soulkey was a better player overall than Zero if they want. However, it would certainly have to be based on how good he was against Fantasy. Well, I suppose it's all a matter of personal opinion and some version of the eye test. Soulkey certainly had an identifiable style that certain kinds of people really like. However, in terms of individual league achievements they're not even comparable. Soulkey 11-12 in OSL/MSL main tournaments Zero 64-47 in OSL/MSL main tournaments (54%/67%/54% v T/P/Z) Quite striking if you consider the fact that advancing likely means facing stronger players. Ehm.... SK's matchlist vs T from pro BW is absurd. It's like 75% of the top tier guys: Flash, Light, Fantasy, Bogus, hiyA, leta, etc. Winning 53% of that is damn good. There is plenty of evidence to suggest that ZerO was a better individual league player than SK, but a strong argument can be made for SK having ZvT just as good as ZerO in regular games, not at least a portion of is the fact that SK was THE large pioneer in developing ZvLategame mech, and was almost universally agreed to be the strongest zerg against the lategame mech transition.
Maybe you thought you were responding to the guy who called Soulkey merely above average. I'm not that guy.
I was responding to the incorrect comment that ZerO was a ZvP specialist who played less Terrans in Proleague. That's false. ZerO has more games against Terran in Proleague.
Also you bolded "which led him to face more top Terrans" as if you were objecting to that. Unfortunately, you left out "in high stakes series" which followed that phrase. Series, as in best-of-x-series. High-stakes, as in RO8, RO4, finals of OSL/MSL.
Not saying that Soulkey wasn't good at ZvT. Just objecting to other stuff.
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Lets go BW revival
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On January 05 2015 09:32 Masheyoon wrote:
Amusingly, what happened three years ago appears to be happening now, only it's SC2 that's fading and BW emerging.
The bitterness people feel towards Blizzard is understandable. What Mike Morhaime said directly after the final OSL was appalling (Paraphrased: "Brood War's departure is a good thing and will help pave way for SC2."). Instead of appearing impressive in the eyes of many by having a video game that has stood the test of time, Blizzard now appears greedy, selfish and entirely dumb in the eyes of everyone for killing it off in trying to make SC2 as successful as possible. They could have, you know, continued to support both games.
You made me remember that Morhaime speech 
I can't believe people actually think that the Savior fiasco 'killed' BW, yeah it hurt the scene but it come nowhere close to Blizzard actively trying to shut down and hijack the BW esports scene so 'esports' could be used as a marketing tool for SC2.
Edit: On the topic of Effort, I always liked him more than Jaedong.
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On January 05 2015 18:19 zeo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2015 09:32 Masheyoon wrote:
Amusingly, what happened three years ago appears to be happening now, only it's SC2 that's fading and BW emerging.
The bitterness people feel towards Blizzard is understandable. What Mike Morhaime said directly after the final OSL was appalling (Paraphrased: "Brood War's departure is a good thing and will help pave way for SC2."). Instead of appearing impressive in the eyes of many by having a video game that has stood the test of time, Blizzard now appears greedy, selfish and entirely dumb in the eyes of everyone for killing it off in trying to make SC2 as successful as possible. They could have, you know, continued to support both games.
You made me remember that Morhaime speech I can't believe people actually think that the Savior fiasco 'killed' BW, yeah it hurt the scene but it come nowhere close to Blizzard actively trying to shut down and hijack the BW esports scene so 'esports' could be used as a marketing tool for SC2. Edit: On the topic of Effort, I always liked him more than Jaedong.
Can you provide some sources for this? I mena any official annoucments etc. I would love to thorw this in blizzard face 
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On January 05 2015 18:50 PharaphobiaSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2015 18:19 zeo wrote:On January 05 2015 09:32 Masheyoon wrote:
Amusingly, what happened three years ago appears to be happening now, only it's SC2 that's fading and BW emerging.
The bitterness people feel towards Blizzard is understandable. What Mike Morhaime said directly after the final OSL was appalling (Paraphrased: "Brood War's departure is a good thing and will help pave way for SC2."). Instead of appearing impressive in the eyes of many by having a video game that has stood the test of time, Blizzard now appears greedy, selfish and entirely dumb in the eyes of everyone for killing it off in trying to make SC2 as successful as possible. They could have, you know, continued to support both games.
You made me remember that Morhaime speech I can't believe people actually think that the Savior fiasco 'killed' BW, yeah it hurt the scene but it come nowhere close to Blizzard actively trying to shut down and hijack the BW esports scene so 'esports' could be used as a marketing tool for SC2. Edit: On the topic of Effort, I always liked him more than Jaedong. Can you provide some sources for this? I mena any official annoucments etc. I would love to thorw this in blizzard face
About blizzard using the BW scene for sc2? Google the relationship between kespa and blizzard. Basically kespa was using blizzard's game and so were ultimately their bitch, to put it simply. Blizzard took what kespa had built, and turned it into a marketing tool for sc2 (google bw/sc2 hybrid league). It created extra pressure on the players by being forced into a new game they were expected to learn and play at a professional level, while still putting the same effort into keeping their BW skills up to standard. This resulted in a worse environment for the players and fans alike until they finally dropped BW altogether.
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Hmm all I was able to found was just a neutral posts I would love to see facts about blizzard pushed BW away. Please PM me some links I would appreciate them .
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EPT
