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APD releases HelmetCam footage of shooting

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Peqqz
Profile Joined December 2011
Germany201 Posts
March 31 2014 16:58 GMT
#1
Disturbing content. Do not click the Video if you're under 18 and/or when you're not able to watch this kind of footage.




Hello everyone.

Im shocked, (again) by the police:

James M. Boyd seemed to think he had a deal. The 38-year-old homeless man – whose illegal camping in the foothills had drawn Albuquerque police – told officers on Sunday that he was ready to walk off the mountain. Instead, he was carried off, fatally wounded after officers opened fire. Boyd, in a long confrontation with police, ended up face down in the dirt, a splotch of blood visible on his back, a police dog on his leg. He held a knife in each hand.

But before that, there appeared to be a chance he’d cooperate, according to video released by APD on Friday. “All right, don’t change up the agreement,” Boyd says, as officers have their guns trained on him. “I’m going to try to walk with you.” Boyd picks up his backpack and belongings, and he looks ready to start walking. There are no knives in his hands at this point. “Do it!” an officer says on the video.

A flash-bang device is thrown at Boyd’s feet, disorienting him. Officers yell at him to get on the ground, and a dog and officer approach him. Boyd takes two knives out of his pockets and appears to wave them. Then Boyd starts turning away from the officers. That’s when shots ring out and he hits the ground. Officers continue to yell at him to drop the knives. “Please don’t hurt me anymore. I can’t move,” Boyd says as he lies on the ground.

Officers fire bean-bag rounds at him as he’s on the ground, then let loose a police dog, which grabs his leg and shakes it. He doesn’t move. Then officers approach and cuff him, blood on the rock above him. He died the next day at the hospital.



Video:

+ Show Spoiler +



My main thoughts is about the knifes. Was this really a reason to kill this guy?

Your thoughts?





Source: http://www.abqjournal.com/372844/news/video-camper-turning-away.html
Source: German News
first we make expand, then we defend it.
Coagulation
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States9633 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-03-31 17:18:59
March 31 2014 17:17 GMT
#2
dont pull knives on cops and you wont get shot. pretty simple shit.
QuanticHawk
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
United States32084 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-03-31 17:23:57
March 31 2014 17:19 GMT
#3
If you're gonna make the op, try making it not so blatantly biased by clipping out the parts that explain how approaching officers were warned of his extensive criminal history that featured assaults on officers, his history of mental illness, and multiple threats against the officers that were there just before this went down

Holding knives

Police Chief Gorden Eden released video of the incident during a Friday afternoon news conference. Much of it comes from an officer’s helmet camera. The shooting was justified, Eden said, because Boyd, holding knives, threatened an officer and the use of “less-than-lethal” devices hadn’t worked, he said.

“Do I believe it was a justified shooting? Yes,” Eden told reporters. “If you follow case law … there was a directed threat to an officer.” Boyd had a criminal history going back almost 20 years, Eden said. He had spent time in both the Doña Ana and Bernalillo county jails, the chief said. In one incident, Eden said, Boyd punched and broke an officer’s nose as she talked to him in an Albuquerque library.

“All of his charges have been violent,” Eden told reporters. Officers arriving on scene were told that Boyd had an “extensive history” of violence against police officers, that he was possibly diagnosed with paranoid schizophrenia and that he was a transient. Eden said two officers, Keith Sandy and Dominique Perez, fired three rounds each during the encounter. Sandy is a detective with APD’s Repeat Offender Project. He joined APD after he was fired by State Police amid allegations of double dipping on pay.

At least one bullet struck Boyd, though Eden said it’s not clear whether that’s what killed him because medical investigators haven’t released a cause of death. Police haven’t been able to locate a next of kin for Boyd. A multi-jurisdictional team is investigating the shooting, Eden said. Forty witnesses, many of whom only heard the incident, have been interviewed so far and “we’re not finished,” the chief said.

Eden’s first incident

The shooting is the first since Eden took over as APD chief late last month. Albuquerque police have shot and killed 22 men since the beginning of 2010, counting Sunday’s incident. The city’s police force is under investigation by the U.S. Department of Justice, which is examining whether APD has a “pattern or practice” of violating people’s rights, specifically through the use of force.

One of the videos shown by Eden on Friday shows the beginning of the encounter with Boyd. Officers were dispatched on a “suspicious person’s call,” the chief said. Boyd was sleeping or lying under something when officers approached. He came out from beneath the cover and “as the officers began to talk to him, he threatened the officers with knives,” Eden said.

On the video, officers order Boyd repeatedly to drop the knives. According to dispatch logs released Friday, Boyd threw a rock at officers about 20 minutes before shots were fired. Boyd talks almost constantly during parts of the encounter. Eden said Boyd identified himself as an agent for the Department of Defense and other agencies. “I’ve been calling you all for five months,” Boyd can be heard saying on the video.

Eden said that Boyd asked for State Police to come to the scene. A State Police officer did and “he stated that the suspect threatened to kill him also,” Eden said. An APD crisis-intervention officer also spoke to Boyd, Eden said. Sometime later, Boyd appears to decide he’s ready to leave and he seems to think it’s part of an agreement with the officers. He also suggests it’s the officers who are the threat, not himself.

“In the private world, if you were down at a bar or a bus stop, I have the right to kill you right now because you’re trying to take me over,” Boyd says. “Don’t get stupid with me.” An officer responds: “We’re not going to get stupid.” Boyd then says he’s going to “walk with you. … Keep your word. I can keep you safe. Don’t worry about safety. I’m not a (expletive) murderer.” He picks up his backpack, officers use the flash bang and he pulls out the knives. About 10 seconds later, as Boyd appears to turn away, officers fire at him.

Eden said the officers fired a Taser shotgun round at Boyd as the dog was deployed. Eden said Boyd had “two open-bladed knives in his hands,” even as officers handcuffed him on the ground
. Officers then used the barrels of their guns to pick over his belongings, located nearby under a clear tarp.

“The suspect did, in fact, make a decision not to follow the directions that were provided to him by the officers,” Eden said. “… On many occasions, he threatened officers. On many occasions, he refused to follow the direct commands of the officers.”

During the news conference, Eden took questions from reporters for four minutes before a public information officer tried to end the briefing. Eden responded to questions for about two more minutes before leaving. In a brief interview outside the conference room, the Journal asked Eden why officers didn’t spend more time trying to wait out Boyd – what changed that led them to take the action they did.

Eden said they couldn’t wait because Boyd was moving to leave and officers couldn’t contain him in the area because of the rugged terrain. “We still had hikers in the area,” Eden said. “We did not have a way as we normally do to be able to establish a strong outer perimeter because of the rocks, the hills, the loss of line of sight.”


quote the whole thing instead of doing shitty cherry picking that leaves out vital information.

considering how shit these news threads turn out, there should be a rule about not cherypicking quotes from a story like this
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Sermokala
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States14045 Posts
March 31 2014 17:20 GMT
#4
I have a bunch of basic questions you didn't answer. Where did this happen? Did he commit any other crimes in the mountain he was camping? Is something happening to the cops such as a "administrative leave".

If its in america then the knives certainly are a reason to kill the guy. If hes refusing to drop his weapons in front of cops that have assault rifles in front of him then theres something wrong. Cops being human beings arnt' going to risk their lives for no reason in that situation and cops have died in these situations. The fact that he branished the knives in this situation doesn't really help his case in anyway. I don't know if the toxicology report has come out yet but if he has any sort of drug in his system the cops are going to get off scot free and not lose a night of sleep.
A wise man will say that he knows nothing. We're gona party like its 2752 Hail Dark Brandon
Peqqz
Profile Joined December 2011
Germany201 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-03-31 17:33:48
March 31 2014 17:31 GMT
#5
WoW, that was quite offending and poor by you, Hawk.

Why the hell is a policeman in danger, if he pulls out two mini knifes? Killing this guy is WAY to mutch.


Edit: Oh hey he just shot him a few times after he layed on the ground. Because of the enormous danger?
first we make expand, then we defend it.
vult
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
United States9400 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-03-31 17:40:07
March 31 2014 17:37 GMT
#6
On April 01 2014 02:31 Peqqz wrote:
WoW, that was quite offending and poor by you, Hawk.

Why the hell is a policeman in danger, if he pulls out two mini knifes? Killing this guy is WAY to mutch.


Edit: Oh hey he just shot him a few times after he layed on the ground. Because of the enormous danger?


American cops are trained to use force if they feel at all threatened with a weapen that can be considered deadly. Sure, it was a harsh use of force, but what do you really expect the result to be from a 20+ year convict who pulls a knife on police and repeatedly disobeys the orders by police?

This OP is super sensationalist and its definitely not the first POV cop video with killing happening.
I used to play random, but for you I play very specifically.
scott31337
Profile Joined January 2013
United States2979 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-03-31 19:06:32
March 31 2014 17:39 GMT
#7
I agree with the above posters as well - you were quite biased in the OP- Don't pull weapons on cops and keep your hands visible.

This may teach you a thing or two - I've followed this and it works well. NSFW

Edit: Yes I did watch the video.

+ Show Spoiler +
THIS WAGON IS HITTING MAFIA FOR SURE BOYS!
Dangermousecatdog
Profile Joined December 2010
United Kingdom7084 Posts
March 31 2014 18:03 GMT
#8
I agree that the openeing post is lacking in some information, but those who called the polices' actions justified should just watch the video instead. They attacked him for no readily apparent reason. Surely any of the police are physically fit enough to follow what appears to be an unfit man with several bags with ease. Perhaps the police got impatient and wanted to wrap the situation up quickly.

These police seem shockingly gung ho, combined with "get your ass up!" Is this normal for American police? I'm pretty sure that's not well trained policeman would ever say. as an instruction
aTnClouD
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
Italy2428 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-03-31 18:05:33
March 31 2014 18:05 GMT
#9
Anyone would be scared shitless of a 20 years convict with mental illness who doesn't mind attacking cops.
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Dangermousecatdog
Profile Joined December 2010
United Kingdom7084 Posts
March 31 2014 18:06 GMT
#10
Did you even watch the video?
DorF
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Sweden961 Posts
March 31 2014 18:08 GMT
#11
Sure you shouldn't pull weapons on cops, but the cops could have just used non lethal weapons (seemingly they brought quite a few) or released the dog ?
But whatever they are the trained professionals and in that situation I'm sure they made the right decision, at least I hope so.
BW for life !
CuddlyCuteKitten
Profile Joined January 2004
Sweden2649 Posts
March 31 2014 18:09 GMT
#12
At some point your going to have to apprehend him and get him cuffed. You cant just let a guy like that wander off. It was obvious that he did not plan to come in willingly. Police obviously had a plan to try to take him down as soon as they got an opening.

They tried using a shock grenade and storming him when he put away his knifes (likely the best scenario they could get) but he isn't affected and pulls them out.

0 % chance they get another chance, he doesn't obey when shit is obviously very real and they shot. They are then very cautious when approaching (bean bags, dog) because they don't want to get stabbed when they approach. I don't really see the problem with this situation.
waaaaaaaaaaaooooow - Felicia, SPF2:T
Sermokala
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States14045 Posts
March 31 2014 18:14 GMT
#13
On April 01 2014 03:08 DorF wrote:
Sure you shouldn't pull weapons on cops, but the cops could have just used non lethal weapons (seemingly they brought quite a few) or released the dog ?
But whatever they are the trained professionals and in that situation I'm sure they made the right decision, at least I hope so.

They did use non lethal weapons but they didn't work. A guy on meth won't react to tazers and a guy on coke won't react to beanbags. If you don't know if hes on either you have to assume hes on both.
A wise man will say that he knows nothing. We're gona party like its 2752 Hail Dark Brandon
Peqqz
Profile Joined December 2011
Germany201 Posts
March 31 2014 18:21 GMT
#14
I'm amused be the fact, that every "US-poster" is pro cops.

Seriously. They shot him when he layed on the ground [...]
first we make expand, then we defend it.
Ettick
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United States2434 Posts
March 31 2014 18:24 GMT
#15
Knives are just as dangerous as guns, if not more so at close range. The shooting was justified.
Peqqz
Profile Joined December 2011
Germany201 Posts
March 31 2014 18:27 GMT
#16
On April 01 2014 03:24 Ettick wrote:
Knives are just as dangerous as guns, if not more so at close range. The shooting was justified.



Yup. Shoot him while he is dieing.


Are you guys all serious?
first we make expand, then we defend it.
Ettick
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United States2434 Posts
March 31 2014 18:32 GMT
#17
On April 01 2014 03:27 Peqqz wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 01 2014 03:24 Ettick wrote:
Knives are just as dangerous as guns, if not more so at close range. The shooting was justified.



Yup. Shoot him while he is dieing.


Are you guys all serious?

Because cops are stone cold professional killers who have killed hundreds of people and know the exact moment when people die after shooting them.
rudimentalfeelthelov
Profile Joined December 2013
Finland268 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-03-31 18:34:54
March 31 2014 18:34 GMT
#18
On April 01 2014 03:27 Peqqz wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 01 2014 03:24 Ettick wrote:
Knives are just as dangerous as guns, if not more so at close range. The shooting was justified.



Yup. Shoot him while he is dieing.


Are you guys all serious?


Leave it, we Europeans won't ever understand Americans and their toleration of police brutality.
sOda~
Profile Joined April 2011
United Kingdom441 Posts
March 31 2014 18:37 GMT
#19
how anyone can have watched the video and think that what was done was even close to reasonable baffles me.
IM THE SHIT BITCH
fishjie
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States1519 Posts
March 31 2014 18:38 GMT
#20
don't blame the victim. there are many cases of USA police brutally murdering innocent people (with no criminal backgrounds and who never made any threats to police). sure this guy might've been an ex-con, but the cops are in the wrong on this one. they used way too much excessive force as they are always wont to do. until the police are actually punished for their murders with jail time instead of getting slaps on the wrist and paid vacations, these things will keep happening.

youtube and smartphones are the best thing to happen to citizens, as now the police can't quite blatantly get away with their bs.
Golgotha
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Korea (South)8418 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-03-31 18:43:13
March 31 2014 18:39 GMT
#21
are all you guys watching the same video? the guy was fucking complying with the officers and picking up his bag. As he started to walk down, they fucking flash banged him and start yelling at him. The guy was just standing there 20 feet away from everyone. You have a fucking killer dog, a shotgun and a damn rifle with scope trained on him. And yet you felt like the situation was out of control so much that you had to shoot the damn guy multiple times?

1. Don't fucking throw a flash bang when the person is complying with your orders.
2. Understand that gun>knife and 2 gunners>knifer. They didn't need to fucking shoot him just yet as he stood 20 feet away. Does he have teleport or something? Fear of lagstab like in Dark Souls?

The guy pulling the knife is very stupid, but it don't mean you have to gun him down multiple times as he stands 20 feet away in an isolated area with no danger to ANYONE.

But if he is some kind of professional knife thrower, I will take my statement back. But if you watch the video, the guy went down after the first cop shot him, then the cameraman decides he wants in on the fun and pegs him some more. WTF? These are our cops?


edit:

wtf. sorry. they had more than 3 guys there. They had a damn commando team with multiple rifles. Oh, the best part? The guy fucking turns around and that's when they shoot. people defending the cops, you gotta be fucking kidding me. sure they had the right to be cautious, but not stupid like the display you are exhibiting.
Derez
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Netherlands6068 Posts
March 31 2014 18:47 GMT
#22
The guy is in the absolute middle of nowhere, obviously a mental patient and the police decided to send what is more or less a SWAT team. They then provoke the guy by pointing weapons at him while obviously they could have been standing 20 meters away and try to engage him. The guy was in no way a threat, even if he were to charge an officer they could have shot him 30 times over on the way there.

Anyone who thinks this is acceptable policework needs to get his head checked, US police forces are pretty much militarized and they recruit heavily from the pool of people that want to look cool and aggressive. It's incredibly sad that the US public accepts this kind of bullshit from their police forces.
CuddlyCuteKitten
Profile Joined January 2004
Sweden2649 Posts
March 31 2014 18:52 GMT
#23
He is not complying with the cops he's mental and think he has some kind of agreement and they aren't going to let him walk right up to them.

What they should have done is to shoot the ground next to him when he was waving knives as a warning and then one guy should have shot him in the leg (he would have refused to drop the knives).
He could still have died tho.
Problem is that US cops seem to be conditioned to all shoot at the same time if one opens fire. It's probably because there are more firearms.
waaaaaaaaaaaooooow - Felicia, SPF2:T
Peqqz
Profile Joined December 2011
Germany201 Posts
March 31 2014 18:57 GMT
#24
Im very glad some "non americans" postet under this video.
first we make expand, then we defend it.
Golgotha
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Korea (South)8418 Posts
March 31 2014 19:00 GMT
#25
On April 01 2014 03:47 Derez wrote:
The guy is in the absolute middle of nowhere, obviously a mental patient and the police decided to send what is more or less a SWAT team. They then provoke the guy by pointing weapons at him while obviously they could have been standing 20 meters away and try to engage him. The guy was in no way a threat, even if he were to charge an officer they could have shot him 30 times over on the way there.

Anyone who thinks this is acceptable policework needs to get his head checked, US police forces are pretty much militarized and they recruit heavily from the pool of people that want to look cool and aggressive. It's incredibly sad that the US public accepts this kind of bullshit from their police forces.


Yeah, I seriously do not know why they shot him. The first bullet that exited a gun was when his back was turned. His back was fucking turned and the guard dog was restrained and safe.

What? are they afraid the guy has a gun up his ass?

can't believe some people here think that the cops did the right thing.
andrewlt
Profile Joined August 2009
United States7702 Posts
March 31 2014 19:03 GMT
#26
At least Americans aren't arrogant enough to post everything we disagree with Europeans about. Seriously, this just needs to stop. Every time I check TL General, it is filled with arrogant Europeans with holier than thou attitudes posting about local US news.
Alzadar
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada5009 Posts
March 31 2014 19:05 GMT
#27
Seems like the situation was more or less under control until the police randomly escalate it with the flash bang. What was the point of that?
I am the Town Medic.
Peqqz
Profile Joined December 2011
Germany201 Posts
March 31 2014 19:06 GMT
#28
On April 01 2014 04:03 andrewlt wrote:
At least Americans aren't arrogant enough to post everything we disagree with Europeans about. Seriously, this just needs to stop. Every time I check TL General, it is filled with arrogant Europeans with holier than thou attitudes posting about local US news.



I do not care were you're from. Its just very stupid to say its okay what they do. And yes, all who say "its okay" are americans.
first we make expand, then we defend it.
Peqqz
Profile Joined December 2011
Germany201 Posts
March 31 2014 19:07 GMT
#29
On April 01 2014 04:03 andrewlt wrote:
At least Americans aren't arrogant enough to post everything we disagree with Europeans about. Seriously, this just needs to stop. Every time I check TL General, it is filled with arrogant Europeans with holier than thou attitudes posting about local US news.



Hehe, by the way... Most amercians thing Europe is a country.

Okay, that was a bit racist... Just a bit.

User was warned for this post
first we make expand, then we defend it.
Golgotha
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Korea (South)8418 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-03-31 19:14:17
March 31 2014 19:13 GMT
#30
On April 01 2014 04:03 andrewlt wrote:
At least Americans aren't arrogant enough to post everything we disagree with Europeans about. Seriously, this just needs to stop. Every time I check TL General, it is filled with arrogant Europeans with holier than thou attitudes posting about local US news.


arrogant europeans? dude, let me save you the trouble and suggest that you delete such repulsive remarks. and if you are going to talk shit, please explain your reasoning and your case.

These "arrogant europeans with holier than thou attitudes" are pointing out the fact that the the police used force in which was out of line with what the current situation called for. 6 armed men and one guard dog. A man standing 20 feet away. Police flashbang him as he starts walking down. Dog is set loose on the man and attacks the man. Man gets out knife to protect himself against the dog. Police are still standing away with 6 guns trained on him. They tell him to get down. The man turns around and begins to comply. Bang, bang, bang. Once the man is down and unable to even move, they sick the dog on him and shoot him 3 more times with a beanbag.

Yeah, these europeans are sure overreacting. In my humble opinion they are using something called logic, which is something quite lacking in your statements.
Advantageous
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
China1350 Posts
March 31 2014 19:21 GMT
#31
knives = threat. threat warrants self-defense. what are polices' self-defense? guns. what do guns do? shoot and kill or fatally wound. im not saying the shooting was justified, the officers couldve dealt with it some other way, that's less life-threatening, but they're under legal authority to apply "self-defense" if need be.
"Because I am BossToss" -MC ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ノ raise your dongers ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ノ I'm sure that all of my fellow class mates viewed me as the Adonis of the Class of 2015 already. -Xenocider, EG, ieF 2013 Champion.
Alzadar
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada5009 Posts
March 31 2014 19:25 GMT
#32
On April 01 2014 04:21 Advantageous wrote:
knives = threat. threat warrants self-defense. what are polices' self-defense? guns. what do guns do? shoot and kill or fatally wound. im not saying the shooting was justified, the officers couldve dealt with it some other way, that's less life-threatening, but they're under legal authority to apply "self-defense" if need be.


But why put themselves in a situation where self-defense was necessary? Before the flash bang he was calmy walking towards them, the situation was under control. If they didn't want him closer they could say "stop where you are".

But then the flash bang naturally surprises and disorients the victim, so the situation becomes out of control.

As I see it police should always be working to get a situation under control, not creating chaos.
I am the Town Medic.
Peqqz
Profile Joined December 2011
Germany201 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-03-31 19:30:10
March 31 2014 19:27 GMT
#33
On April 01 2014 04:21 Advantageous wrote:
knives = threat. threat warrants self-defense. what are polices' self-defense? guns. what do guns do? shoot and kill or fatally wound. im not saying the shooting was justified, the officers couldve dealt with it some other way, that's less life-threatening, but they're under legal authority to apply "self-defense" if need be.



wow. Whatch the Video befor posting, please


With that logic you need to kill your mom, when she cuts a bread.
first we make expand, then we defend it.
intrigue
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Washington, D.C9934 Posts
March 31 2014 19:28 GMT
#34
don't know the standard procedure cops are supposed to follow here but it seems really irresponsible to throw something at an armed dude walking slowly towards you and force him into a panic situation. aren't you guaranteeing the worse case scenario right there?
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wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
March 31 2014 19:29 GMT
#35
it's like tasers don't exist >.>

the best part of the vid is they throw a flashbang, and then shoot the guy after he drops all his shit, and is clearly still disoriented from what was just thrown at him.
liftlift > tsm
Elizar
Profile Joined February 2010
Germany431 Posts
March 31 2014 19:30 GMT
#36
On April 01 2014 04:21 Advantageous wrote:
knives = threat. threat warrants self-defense. what are polices' self-defense? guns. what do guns do? shoot and kill or fatally wound. im not saying the shooting was justified, the officers couldve dealt with it some other way, that's less life-threatening, but they're under legal authority to apply "self-defense" if need be.


Woot?
What do you call getting flashed banged, shot and a dog that is biting you? THATS a threat. What do you do, if you are getting eaten alive? You try to defend yourself. Given the fact that this guy was outnumbered and attacked by 6 men and a dog while being flash banged, who would not panic and try to defend himself with all possible means?
And he even said, that he cant move anymore and wanted to give up. (I didn´t watch the vid, I concluded just from the comments)
So much for gun-loving people who justify owning guns for self-defense reasons.
Sorry, but that is not logical at all.
But I guess I´m just arrogant.
Torvaltz
Profile Joined August 2012
United States188 Posts
March 31 2014 19:30 GMT
#37
Yeah... this is just not ok.
The man was compliant with the officers and they decide to throw a flashbang and further assault him? Why?
I'm thankful for the existence of widespread recording devices, otherwise this stuff would have been covered up and buried.
melee is sick
mdb
Profile Blog Joined February 2003
Bulgaria4059 Posts
March 31 2014 19:32 GMT
#38
Terrible and sad. These cops have to stand trial for murer.
Golgotha
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Korea (South)8418 Posts
March 31 2014 19:37 GMT
#39
On April 01 2014 04:21 Advantageous wrote:
knives = threat. threat warrants self-defense. what are polices' self-defense? guns. what do guns do? shoot and kill or fatally wound. im not saying the shooting was justified, the officers couldve dealt with it some other way, that's less life-threatening, but they're under legal authority to apply "self-defense" if need be.


"knives = threat."

Wow, I applaud thee for coming up with that. So I guess nuking the guy could have worked as well huh? The guy is a threat, so all threats should be treated as potential bombs and be taken out immediately with blatant force. That's just self defense against a threat. So it makes it okay.

Can you seriously just sit down and try to wrap your head around the fact that the situation did not call for the force that was exhibited in this video? do you really believe that what they did should be just shrugged off as "legal authority"? wake up people, don't be so ignorant.
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
March 31 2014 19:38 GMT
#40
On April 01 2014 04:37 Golgotha wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 01 2014 04:21 Advantageous wrote:
knives = threat. threat warrants self-defense. what are polices' self-defense? guns. what do guns do? shoot and kill or fatally wound. im not saying the shooting was justified, the officers couldve dealt with it some other way, that's less life-threatening, but they're under legal authority to apply "self-defense" if need be.


"knives = threat."

Wow, I applaud thee for coming up with that. So I guess nuking the guy could have worked as well huh? The guy is a threat, so all threats should be treated as potential bombs and be taken out immediately with blatant force. That's just self defense against a threat. So it makes it okay.

Can you seriously just sit down and try to wrap your head around the fact that the situation did not call for the force that was exhibited in this video? do you really believe that what they did should be just shrugged off as "legal authority"? wake up people, don't be so ignorant.

Not saying police are in the right here.
but look up tueller drill.
liftlift > tsm
KlinKz
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada149 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-03-31 19:46:55
March 31 2014 19:44 GMT
#41
There are so many things that this OP left out of the story that distorts the event if read from this topic page. The responses from the OP is also irritating the American and European perspectives on police brutality is different, our cultures are different though it may seem that western cultures are very alike. Across the Atlantic ocean it is different, America has probably the most armed population in the world, these police endure stressful events on a day-to-day basis.

Don't look down on America, it's different there and America will never be Europe. I'm sorry to the man, but it's evident that his life choices that he made put him in that kind of situation.
Go Bisons Go!
WolfintheSheep
Profile Joined June 2011
Canada14127 Posts
March 31 2014 19:45 GMT
#42
Yeah, to everyone saying they shot him when his back was turned...

That's one of the worst situations to be confronting someone. You don't know what they're doing with their hands, you don't know they're taking something out, and if they're going to make a sudden movement it's very hard to see the body language beforehand. Turning around and hiding your hands is one of the stupidest things you could do when the police are pointing weapons at you.

And to everyone saying "he was complying with the officers", try reading the article. There reportedly was no "agreement", and him picking up his bags and walking towards them was entirely of his own accord. You can even hear him in the video, talking about how he "has the right to kill [the officers]" and how he can "keep the [officers] safe".
Average means I'm better than half of you.
zezamer
Profile Joined March 2011
Finland5701 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-03-31 19:47:10
March 31 2014 19:46 GMT
#43
Guys, flashbangs arent really like in cs

and nobody is stupid enough to go close to someone whos known to be aggressive and doesnt show his hands
Golgotha
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Korea (South)8418 Posts
March 31 2014 19:49 GMT
#44
On April 01 2014 04:38 wei2coolman wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 01 2014 04:37 Golgotha wrote:
On April 01 2014 04:21 Advantageous wrote:
knives = threat. threat warrants self-defense. what are polices' self-defense? guns. what do guns do? shoot and kill or fatally wound. im not saying the shooting was justified, the officers couldve dealt with it some other way, that's less life-threatening, but they're under legal authority to apply "self-defense" if need be.


"knives = threat."

Wow, I applaud thee for coming up with that. So I guess nuking the guy could have worked as well huh? The guy is a threat, so all threats should be treated as potential bombs and be taken out immediately with blatant force. That's just self defense against a threat. So it makes it okay.

Can you seriously just sit down and try to wrap your head around the fact that the situation did not call for the force that was exhibited in this video? do you really believe that what they did should be just shrugged off as "legal authority"? wake up people, don't be so ignorant.

Not saying police are in the right here.
but look up tueller drill.


I already know the tueller drill. what this drill doesn't include is the fact there are 5 other men with rifles...look that up. 1v1, I can understand him shooting if he pulls a knife. But 6v1? The guy would have got riddled the first step he took with that knife.
Golgotha
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Korea (South)8418 Posts
March 31 2014 19:52 GMT
#45
On April 01 2014 04:46 zezamer wrote:
Guys, flashbangs arent really like in cs

and nobody is stupid enough to go close to someone whos known to be aggressive and doesnt show his hands


Funny. I wonder how other incidences when an armed suspect with a knife is taken out. I guess every other cop has just shot the fuck out of them in cases like this.

Sorry bro, police are trained to deal with situations like this in a far more controlled manner. Those are acts are simply not on the front page since it's usual protocol and not a fucking human rights violation.

Maybe you should understand that the reason why this video has drawn so many hits is because this is NOT NORMAL.
Roflhaxx
Profile Joined April 2010
Korea (South)1244 Posts
March 31 2014 19:53 GMT
#46
On April 01 2014 04:49 Golgotha wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 01 2014 04:38 wei2coolman wrote:
On April 01 2014 04:37 Golgotha wrote:
On April 01 2014 04:21 Advantageous wrote:
knives = threat. threat warrants self-defense. what are polices' self-defense? guns. what do guns do? shoot and kill or fatally wound. im not saying the shooting was justified, the officers couldve dealt with it some other way, that's less life-threatening, but they're under legal authority to apply "self-defense" if need be.


"knives = threat."

Wow, I applaud thee for coming up with that. So I guess nuking the guy could have worked as well huh? The guy is a threat, so all threats should be treated as potential bombs and be taken out immediately with blatant force. That's just self defense against a threat. So it makes it okay.

Can you seriously just sit down and try to wrap your head around the fact that the situation did not call for the force that was exhibited in this video? do you really believe that what they did should be just shrugged off as "legal authority"? wake up people, don't be so ignorant.

Not saying police are in the right here.
but look up tueller drill.


I already know the tueller drill. what this drill doesn't include is the fact there are 5 other men with rifles...look that up. 1v1, I can understand him shooting if he pulls a knife. But 6v1? The guy would have got riddled the first step he took with that knife.

Also note the fact that drill is about the time it takes for you to draw your weapon etc. Here they already had the weapon pointed at the guy, THAT is the big difference here.
A game where the first thing you do is scout with a “worker”. Does that make any sense? Who scouts with a “worker”? That’s like sending out the janitor to perform recon, what general would do that? Retarded game.
mdb
Profile Blog Joined February 2003
Bulgaria4059 Posts
March 31 2014 19:53 GMT
#47
On April 01 2014 04:44 KlinKz wrote:
There are so many things that this OP left out of the story that distorts the event if read from this topic page. The responses from the OP is also irritating the American and European perspectives on police brutality is different, our cultures are different though it may seem that western cultures are very alike. Across the Atlantic ocean it is different, America has probably the most armed population in the world, these police endure stressful events on a day-to-day basis.

Don't look down on America, it's different there and America will never be Europe. I'm sorry to the man, but it's evident that his life choices that he made put him in that kind of situation.

The guy was mentally ill.
WolfintheSheep
Profile Joined June 2011
Canada14127 Posts
March 31 2014 19:53 GMT
#48
On April 01 2014 04:49 Golgotha wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 01 2014 04:38 wei2coolman wrote:
On April 01 2014 04:37 Golgotha wrote:
On April 01 2014 04:21 Advantageous wrote:
knives = threat. threat warrants self-defense. what are polices' self-defense? guns. what do guns do? shoot and kill or fatally wound. im not saying the shooting was justified, the officers couldve dealt with it some other way, that's less life-threatening, but they're under legal authority to apply "self-defense" if need be.


"knives = threat."

Wow, I applaud thee for coming up with that. So I guess nuking the guy could have worked as well huh? The guy is a threat, so all threats should be treated as potential bombs and be taken out immediately with blatant force. That's just self defense against a threat. So it makes it okay.

Can you seriously just sit down and try to wrap your head around the fact that the situation did not call for the force that was exhibited in this video? do you really believe that what they did should be just shrugged off as "legal authority"? wake up people, don't be so ignorant.

Not saying police are in the right here.
but look up tueller drill.


I already know the tueller drill. what this drill doesn't include is the fact there are 5 other men with rifles...look that up. 1v1, I can understand him shooting if he pulls a knife. But 6v1? The guy would have got riddled the first step he took with that knife.


Yeah, and did they shoot him as soon as he pulled the knives?

No, he was only shot when he turned around without his hands in a clearly visible location.
Average means I'm better than half of you.
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