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Please keep the QQ to a minimum if you do not like this update. We are happy to hear your reasoning for not liking a ranked system, but no "OMG VOLVO WHY" posts. |
Why does Dendi have so low winrate then? Is he a bad mid? Low impact player etc
MMR is an indicator for how good you are at winning pub games. You know what wins pubs? Leadership. Aui has like 71% winrate with a huge amount being soloqueue. He also randomed a lot of those games. If you look at his Dotabuff you can see a lot of the heroes played hover around 30-35 matches. He just started playing junglers a lot since he joined Speed gaming. Before Speed he randomed like every game. How can he have such a high winrate even though he randoms his hero that often? Because he leads his team very well in pubs. He is good at making people work as a team. And who would have thought that getting people to work together wins games in a teambased game!? : o It's almost as if communication is a big part of a team. Dendi doesn't ever talk to his team, hence he loses a lot even if he plays mid everygame where as Aui randomed his hero almost every game.
Aui http://dotabuff.com/players/40547474/heroes
Dendi http://dotabuff.com/players/70388657/heroes
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You can have 50% winrate and still be high MMR rating.
The reverse is also true, though I haven't seen it much.
I can't comment on Aui but if he truly solo-queues then that's really impressive. I've also taken Dendi as the best example of a solo queuer in terms of winrate as he hovers around 55%, haven't seen more than that from a person that only solo queues.
edit: also even if he randomed that doesn't mean much, i'm really interested in how many of the typical heroes that are played as support he played in other roles
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On January 12 2014 21:21 DrPandaPhD wrote:There is a guy at 5k+ who only plays treant protector. And that is like the most passive support in the game. Sing has faced him multiple times on his stream. Also D3xtrs wisp account still has the 2nd highest winrate in the game http://dotabuff.com/players/86736893. paS wins a high percentage of his pubs playing support http://dotabuff.com/players/31078647And then there is my friend (just to show its possible to do it as a nonpro) who climbed pretty high as a support player http://dotabuff.com/players/29735591You can obviously climb as a support..
That's not D3xtr... It's a German guy. Just his friend.
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On January 12 2014 21:47 Andre wrote:I would wager that TP guy would be higher rated if he'd play more impactful heroes, same for all the people you listed. I don't know about your friend but both paS and D3xter have the majority of their games played with friends. If you're gonna be supporting in a stack it's gonna be much easier to climb that way. MMR is basically the representation of how much impact you have in a game, and the way support is that impact is mostly relevant in the early phases of the game(not always and it depends on hero ofc, but generally speaking). While the mid role will have the opportunity of being relevant throughout the whole game and having more "space" to dictate the flow of the game. What I'd like to say is that the mid role specifically, will grant you a slightly higher MMR than other roles IF&when you get it on the level of your other roles. Same principle applies for other roles(say offlaner>support). Think of it this way, say we get a real ladder some day and see people's rankings. Which roles do you think the top100 people on the ladder would mostly play in a solo-queue pub environment?
They should be matched between them fairly often so every role 
I feel I can wreck games as a support but not if I'm the 1 in 1protects4, special mention to useless wooders, they really make games way less fun for me. Dual laning the offlane is so powerful most of the time in pubs and far superior to those slow wooders. My only 100% guaranteed trick to avoid that is to play an actual decent wooder who can have an impact early while buying wards/smoke etc, so enchant chen enigma. It means we'll have 2 supprots, I'm fairly sure it's the only reason I have a >50% winrate with chen, who cares about micro when you're sure to have a fast mek and 2 supports?
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United States47024 Posts
On January 12 2014 22:36 maru~ wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2014 12:02 TheYango wrote:On January 12 2014 11:46 Belisarius wrote:
I do think the initial calibration is probably a bit too important if that's the only time they keep the uncertainty high.
There's (anecdotally) been a lot of people on significant win and loss streaks. A lot more, I feel, than there were pre-ranked. I can't help but think a lot of people probably didn't get correctly reevaluated in placement, and so are now grinding up or down to where they're supposed to be. Uncertainty still was't that high in placements to be honest. Even if you started at your appropriate MMR and went on a 10-game loss streak, you're only 500 MMR below, which really is not all that much. People just make it out to be much more than it is. Climbing 500 mmr even with a decent winrate is about ~200 games. That's a fair amount I'd say, especially if you have other obligations such as work.
You misunderstand what I mean. I don't mean it's a small amount of MMR to climb, I mean it represents a not very meaningful skill difference.
500 MMR over 200 games is 55% winrate. Compared to someone who "belongs" there who will have 50% winrate, that's not really all that different. If you consider how common 8-10 game win/loss streaks are for the average player, +/- 250 rating from someone doesn't represent a statistically significant difference in skill, and a difference of twice that is still not very large.
Though this is assuming someone who is 500 rating below their actual ability would only be able to maintain a 55% winrate. I'd expect someone who's 500 below would have a winrate that's somewhat higher than that.
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Yes, I agree.
Offlane support and useful junglers like you mentioned are really impactful. But most pub games it's the 2-1-1 + some shitty jungle like LC or prophet.
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I thought ranked matchmaking would make games more competitive and serious, but it seems like I just play with more retards. I don't think ~3700 is that low of an MMR, unless I'm mistaken. They should be at least mid to high level right?
I have much more fun in normal MM lately, players are better in general even if they pick random shit.
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I dont really like the system that valve implemented. Yes i agree that KDA ratio shouldnt be important in dota because that would be unfair to supports because mostly they have a bad KDA in all games really. Win/Loss ratio should be the most important in dota but when i started playing ranked after my first game my rank was 3900 with abusing the console bug.
After that i ended my calibration matches 2-8 playing one of the most depressing games of my life, not because i played bad (cant really say i played good in all of my games) but really the allies that valve matched me were absolutely terrible on a level that i encountered when i started playing dota on lvl 1 when i was a beginner in dota. It made no sense because i queue solo 99% of my games and games prior ranked were kinda decent most of the time and then boom and had no idea what happened and why valve matched me with those type of allies.
After the 10 games I ended up with ~3700 rating and the trend of absolutely terrible games ( and terrible allies ) continued for some time and ended up around 3500 rating after a while dropping from 52% winrato to around 50% in my total games and probably had like 30-35% winratio till that low point of all my played ranked games.
Then it started getting little better and started winning alot more in the past 10 days , going around 70-80% winratio after that low point and now im around 3800 rating but even with big winstreaks like 10 games in a row my points were raising 25-28 points at most and in my last games i've played 5 stacks more often and getting only 21-22 points in my games against 5 stacks and even +13 points for a game that ended rather quickly under 10 min .
I dont like it even if you are winning alot valve rank doesnt change at all, KDA is not imporant but that doesnt bother me at all. I wish we would get more points than the average +25 all the time even when your winratio hovers around 75% and winstreaks doesnt matter at all. Now i only need to win 50 games in a row and im into 5k range lul 
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would you want to lose more when you're on a losing steak?
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edit: nm its pointless having any logical discussion with people on this forum, because everything is looked at as "whining" rather than a real discussion on the flaws of this system.
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Why do you give a shit about their MMR???
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Czech Republic18921 Posts
It's easier to stomach how awful you are if you're constantly bitching at how bad the system is.
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On January 13 2014 00:47 SnowfaLL wrote:
Thats another issue with the system I forgot about: Since Solo and stacking wasnt separate before in unranked.
How do you know this ??
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Northern Ireland22208 Posts
On January 12 2014 23:10 Andre wrote:
Yes, I agree.
Offlane support and useful junglers like you mentioned are really impactful. But most pub games it's the 2-1-1 + some shitty jungle like LC or prophet.
Don't diss my jungle LC 
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On January 12 2014 23:01 ChunderBoy wrote:That's not D3xtr... It's a German guy. Just his friend.
oh, my bad
On January 12 2014 22:55 Andre wrote:
You can have 50% winrate and still be high MMR rating.
The reverse is also true, though I haven't seen it much.
I can't comment on Aui but if he truly solo-queues then that's really impressive. I've also taken Dendi as the best example of a solo queuer in terms of winrate as he hovers around 55%, haven't seen more than that from a person that only solo queues.
edit: also even if he randomed that doesn't mean much, i'm really interested in how many of the typical heroes that are played as support he played in other roles
Aui used to stream a lot, where he soloqueued and randomed all the time. His stream was really good cause he talked a lot to his teammates. Shame he doesn't stream as often anymore : (
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played 7 or games today and i had like abandons on my team for 3 games????
Really feel like abandoning games should be punished more heavily especially for ranked mmr
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United States12240 Posts
On January 13 2014 03:59 poorcloud wrote:
played 7 or games today and i had like abandons on my team for 3 games????
Really feel like abandoning games should be punished more heavily especially for ranked mmr
They are. I think you get into LPQ after a single ranked abandon, not sure if there's an additional rating penalty though.
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No rating penalty. You can abandon, come back, win the game and 25ratings then you get put in lp
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On January 13 2014 04:14 Excalibur_Z wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2014 03:59 poorcloud wrote:
played 7 or games today and i had like abandons on my team for 3 games????
Really feel like abandoning games should be punished more heavily especially for ranked mmr They are. I think you get into LPQ after a single ranked abandon, not sure if there's an additional rating penalty though.
I think Valve should just do what every other games out there do: if you abandon the game, you cannot play another game in 10/30 minutes.
Seriously though, LPQ is a weird idea in the first place. It doesn't serve any purpose any punishment at all. As I said before, the bigger the game is becoming, the bigger LPQ is gonna be. Eventually the LPQ will be as big as normal queue and LPQ serve no purpose but to divide the player bases and increase queue time.
I think Valve should either go the conventional way of locking people out of the game, or punish the abandoned one more, such as not getting drops, not increasing xp, mmr.v..v.vv.
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I'm pretty sure the initial idea of LPQ was that people would otherwise just keep making new accounts since this game is F2P and all. Since this still rings true for normal games as long as people are kept out of ranked for some duration it's fine I guess.
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EPT
