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Please keep the QQ to a minimum if you do not like this update. We are happy to hear your reasoning for not liking a ranked system, but no "OMG VOLVO WHY" posts. |
No.
From the blog:
Also, when players are in a party, they typically perform better than players of equivalent skill who don’t know each other. We account for this in two ways. First, we track your skill when queuing alone separately from when queuing in a party. Second, we adjust the effective MMRs based on the number of players in the party and the distribution of skill within the party.
Here’s an example match that was formed today that demonstrates both of these principles in action.
RADIANT DIRE
Party MMR AdjMMR Party MMR AdjMMR
D 2994 3003 C 3046 3062
F 2788 2788 C 2920 2936
A 2687 2687 E 2716 2716
F 2626 2627 B 2672 2672
D 2401 2410 C 2100 2116
TOTAL 13515 TOTAL 13502
Observe that the average adjusted MMR for all of the parties is around 2700. When the players on a team are sorted by adjusted rank, as they are above, the solo players tend to be bracketed above and below by players playing in parties; furthermore, a party with a smaller MMR spread (party F) tends to get bracketed by a party with a larger MMR spread (party D). These patterns are typical. Also notice that party D got a bigger MMR adjustment as a result of the larger MRR spread
Ok that chart isn't really readable here but the point is it adjusts beyond your party MMR.
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On January 09 2014 05:09 Alur wrote:
Makes sense.
agreed, although that seems to be contentious for reasons I can't quite fathom.
Also of interest, the actual numerical adjustments made seem very small (aka well below the effects of winning a game) which seems kind silly but what do I know. Maybe thats just because of the skill range that example is taken from where fairly homogeneous parties are readily available for making matches in a short amount of time.
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I assume it's based their statistics, meaning it probably compensates for the average increase in perfomance.
This will result in under or overcompensation for some parties.
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On January 09 2014 04:45 Andre wrote:
Why are people complaining about getting matched with stacks!?!?
Those stacks are lower rated players, you should be able to crush them individually.
Everyone in solo queue will get matched against stacks, it's therefore fair for everyone. Stacks get a bonus to their rating because they're a "team".
There's also gonna be scenarios where you might be playing with stack as the 5th player for example, but I guess people don't notice it those times? Just when you lose right.
>lower rated players in a 5 stack
>I queue SEA
haha no
I wasn't thinking properly when I said solo queuers are queueing into 4 stacks, but playing against a 5 stack is still annoying.
oh well, maybe more of these games will make me give up on ranked
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On January 09 2014 04:45 Andre wrote:
Why are people complaining about getting matched with stacks!?!?
Those stacks are lower rated players, you should be able to crush them individually.
Everyone in solo queue will get matched against stacks, it's therefore fair for everyone. Stacks get a bonus to their rating because they're a "team".
There's also gonna be scenarios where you might be playing with stack as the 5th player for example, but I guess people don't notice it those times? Just when you lose right.
Last night I was solo against a 4 man stack. They picked wisp-ursa etc.. and lvl 1 rosh before my team take place in lanes. Even though I write jungle with LC at the beginning, team didn't pick a mid so I mid. Went to 3-1 with the first blood. After constant wisp-ursa ganks to mid(lvl1 rosh advantage, they are at least 1 level above us) here and there, we lost the game eventually(460760710). I look at previous matches of the stack, the duo plays wisp+1 combo constantly.
Stacks doesn't mean they are mentally retarded. An unknown level of deficit doesn't make the game fair. Also, probably there is a relatively higher MMR player in the group and can abuse shits like that.
We urgently need either full solo MM or forbid the stacks of 3-4 people.
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On January 09 2014 17:51 Laserist wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2014 04:45 Andre wrote:
Why are people complaining about getting matched with stacks!?!?
Those stacks are lower rated players, you should be able to crush them individually.
Everyone in solo queue will get matched against stacks, it's therefore fair for everyone. Stacks get a bonus to their rating because they're a "team".
There's also gonna be scenarios where you might be playing with stack as the 5th player for example, but I guess people don't notice it those times? Just when you lose right. Last night I was solo against a 4 man stack. They picked wisp-ursa etc.. and lvl 1 rosh before my team take place in lanes. Even though I write jungle with LC at the beginning, team didn't pick a mid so I mid. Went to 3-1 with the first blood. After constant wisp-ursa ganks to mid(lvl1 rosh advantage, they are at least 1 level above us) here and there, we lost the game eventually(460760710). I look at previous matches of the stack, the duo plays wisp+1 combo constantly. Stacks doesn't mean they are mentally retarded. An unknown level of deficit doesn't make the game fair. Also, probably there is a relatively higher MMR player in the group and can abuse shits like that. We urgently need either full solo MM or forbid the stacks of 3-4 people.
and what happens when u get matched against a solo wisp and a solo ursa who happen to be good at their heroes and even have a good chemistry with each other doing the same things at the same level your stack was doing....what then?!?!?!?!? do you switch the thread from this one to the QQ thread crying about wisp ursa pickers?!?!?!
srsly people need to stop crying about every bullshit
you can get raped vs solo as hard as vs stacks...and only becasue its a stack it doesnt mean they are good or have better teamplay, sure it happens but vs solo players u will also find enemies with better fucking teamplay than your team. stacks is just a welcome excuse for people who like to cry anyway about anything.
do you know how much fun i have destroying stacks on a daily basis?? believe me its the best laugh u can get when u queue solo....have you ever tried taking games less serious and communicate via voice with your team? altough that would require to know what you are talking about and showing patience with your teammates. but the way u always cry about things here or in the QQ thread tells me that you MAYBE are not the most friendly guy to meet if you make mistakes?! yes? i dunno....cry less try harder, i was suprised myself how good captaining/shot calling can have an impact on your team full of solo players, suddenly making them rape 4 man stacks etc
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Your post tells me you aren't exactly the most friendly guy either lol.
It's not like the other guy was ranting hard, just pointing out stacks usually have an advantage, something I would agree with.
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On January 09 2014 18:48 Laurens wrote:
Your post tells me you aren't exactly the most friendly guy either lol.
It's not like the other guy was ranting hard, just pointing out stacks usually have an advantage, something I would agree with.
im not unfriendly, im direct.and maybe he isnt crying that hard. but he is frequently almost on a daily basis. and i have no understanding at all for all the crying going on everywhere right now about ranked MM and lots of other stuff in the QQ thread. its like dota transforms everybody into a complaining crying player who doesnt even want to try. i just dont get it. everybody is overrating theirselves and searches for excuses in stacks, the MM system and earth spirits (ok well i maybe can give u the earth spirit point). it just sickens me
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On January 09 2014 04:45 Andre wrote:
There's also gonna be scenarios where you might be playing with stack as the 5th player for example, but I guess people don't notice it those times? Just when you lose right.
Believe me, people notice. Being the +1 to a 4-stack is literally the WORST experience in DOTA2. Nine out of ten times you get no communication, get blamed for mistakes when they start feeding, won't listen to you even when you're pointing out something like they're being baited into a fight, complaining like mad when you don't do precisely what they order you to, etc etc. And god forbid you pick anything other than position 5 hard support.
Once in a while you might get a 4-stack who aren't like that; but it is very, very rare. Hell even a 3-stack can be rough.
They badly need to add a proper solo queue back.
On January 09 2014 18:35 MotherOfRunes wrote:
and what happens when u get matched against a solo wisp and a solo ursa who happen to be good at their heroes and even have a good chemistry with each other doing the same things at the same level your stack was doing....what then?!?!?!?!? do you switch the thread from this one to the QQ thread crying about wisp ursa pickers?!?!?!
srsly people need to stop crying about every bullshit
Not equivalent at all. In order for solo queued wisp/ursa to do that they need to quickly formulate that plan in the time they have available and weigh up their teammates to decide if they can get away with it. That takes a hell of a lot of skill and coordination in a pub. A stack can practice it a bunch and go into the game with their plan well in advance, knowing everyone will do their job and having an idea of everyone's strengths and weaknesses. The prep time difference alone is a huge advantage; without even taking into account the likelihood of a stack being on Skype or Teamspeak or something.
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Calm down. If you destroy stacks, good for you.
There is a reason why party MMR is separated from solo MMR because people plays 'different' in stacks. I assume most of the stacks uses some kind of VOIP communication which usually is not the case for solo queue. You are lucky if you have an English speaker in the game.
I don't care losing games but this is a fucking team game and communication is a big part of it. I queue solo and expect to be matched with players on even ground. I didn't say I am better than them or whatever. What I said is it is unfair to be matched against stacks while soloing. That said MMR deficit is not working in that case.
Remember to read before posting a reply next time.
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some of the things i wrote were not directed at you and were rather general like the general MMR system complaining/crying. i did read what you wrote carefully. and i can give u countless examples of very very good teamplay even with wisp combos just because people have good map awereness/experience game sense etc etc without being in a stack
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United States12255 Posts
For today's patch:
- Ranked matchmaking rating changes are no longer dependent on match length.
Guess that confirms that... and now de-confirms it =)
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On January 10 2014 11:10 Excalibur_Z wrote:
For today's patch:
- Ranked matchmaking rating changes are no longer dependent on match length.
Guess that confirms that... and now de-confirms it =)
Good riddance, that made no sense.
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On January 09 2014 18:35 MotherOfRunes wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2014 17:51 Laserist wrote:On January 09 2014 04:45 Andre wrote:
Why are people complaining about getting matched with stacks!?!?
Those stacks are lower rated players, you should be able to crush them individually.
Everyone in solo queue will get matched against stacks, it's therefore fair for everyone. Stacks get a bonus to their rating because they're a "team".
There's also gonna be scenarios where you might be playing with stack as the 5th player for example, but I guess people don't notice it those times? Just when you lose right. Last night I was solo against a 4 man stack. They picked wisp-ursa etc.. and lvl 1 rosh before my team take place in lanes. Even though I write jungle with LC at the beginning, team didn't pick a mid so I mid. Went to 3-1 with the first blood. After constant wisp-ursa ganks to mid(lvl1 rosh advantage, they are at least 1 level above us) here and there, we lost the game eventually(460760710). I look at previous matches of the stack, the duo plays wisp+1 combo constantly. Stacks doesn't mean they are mentally retarded. An unknown level of deficit doesn't make the game fair. Also, probably there is a relatively higher MMR player in the group and can abuse shits like that. We urgently need either full solo MM or forbid the stacks of 3-4 people. and what happens when u get matched against a solo wisp and a solo ursa who happen to be good at their heroes and even have a good chemistry with each other doing the same things at the same level your stack was doing....what then?!?!?!?!?
Doesn't happen.
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On January 10 2014 14:21 sluggaslamoo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2014 18:35 MotherOfRunes wrote:On January 09 2014 17:51 Laserist wrote:On January 09 2014 04:45 Andre wrote:
Why are people complaining about getting matched with stacks!?!?
Those stacks are lower rated players, you should be able to crush them individually.
Everyone in solo queue will get matched against stacks, it's therefore fair for everyone. Stacks get a bonus to their rating because they're a "team".
There's also gonna be scenarios where you might be playing with stack as the 5th player for example, but I guess people don't notice it those times? Just when you lose right. Last night I was solo against a 4 man stack. They picked wisp-ursa etc.. and lvl 1 rosh before my team take place in lanes. Even though I write jungle with LC at the beginning, team didn't pick a mid so I mid. Went to 3-1 with the first blood. After constant wisp-ursa ganks to mid(lvl1 rosh advantage, they are at least 1 level above us) here and there, we lost the game eventually(460760710). I look at previous matches of the stack, the duo plays wisp+1 combo constantly. Stacks doesn't mean they are mentally retarded. An unknown level of deficit doesn't make the game fair. Also, probably there is a relatively higher MMR player in the group and can abuse shits like that. We urgently need either full solo MM or forbid the stacks of 3-4 people. and what happens when u get matched against a solo wisp and a solo ursa who happen to be good at their heroes and even have a good chemistry with each other doing the same things at the same level your stack was doing....what then?!?!?!?!? Doesn't happen.
bullshit
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Some of my nicest laning phases i had with complete strangers and 0 communication aside from pinging… If you hit the jackpot and get a lanemate(s) that has about the same idea of how to play a lane there is normally not much communication needed… Same goes for Whisp + X.
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Netherlands45349 Posts
I was fucking level 1 Roshanned against in my placement matches
and it wasn't a stack
the fuck is that.
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On January 10 2014 18:44 Kipsate wrote:
I was fucking level 1 Roshanned against in my placement matches
and it wasn't a stack
the fuck is that.
I got level 1 roshed in placement matches too. It was Topson/Dendi/Funn1k/Miggel/Supercell.
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On January 10 2014 18:39 Velr wrote:
Some of my nicest laning phases i had with complete strangers and 0 communication aside from pinging… If you hit the jackpot and get a lanemate(s) that has about the same idea of how to play a lane there is normally not much communication needed… Same goes for Whisp + X.
This, it's really important to have the same way to approach the lane.
And indeed wisp + X can work really well, I instant random my hero every game, I hit tiny and one guy did the same and got wisp. He did not do the farm bitching, I understand it's fucking boring to tether to someone who is just farming, but he pinged nicely and let me a good 5 seconds before any relocate (including channeling time) so he got me very fat (785 gpm in a 30 minutes game).
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EPT
