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Ranked matchmaking coming to Dota 2 - Page 70

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2303 CommentsPost a Reply
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Please keep the QQ to a minimum if you do not like this update. We are happy to hear your reasoning for not liking a ranked system, but no "OMG VOLVO WHY" posts.
ZeaL.
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States5955 Posts
December 27 2013 16:47 GMT
#1381
the only thing I would like to see implemented is a "drafting" mmr which uses w/l as captain seeing as how drafting is completely different from playing
Alur
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Denmark3900 Posts
December 27 2013 17:16 GMT
#1382
On December 28 2013 01:26 MotherOfRunes wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 28 2013 01:12 Plansix wrote:
On December 27 2013 23:43 sCCrooked wrote:
Plansix wrote:
Seriously, I know people find it hard to accept the fact that they are as bad as the people they are matched with, but it's true. You are not as good at dota as you think you are.


I know people find it hard to accept that the company that makes their game could possibly make mistakes and implement things badly, but its true. Valve isn't as good at implementing proper matchmaking systems as you think they are.

Taking a test where the criteria for figuring out your score is poorly figured out will always have large numbers of people getting incorrect ratings. Also if your statement had any truth to it, we would not see such radical differences in peoples' party ratings vs their "so-called single" ratings.

Clearly, that must be it. MMR is messed up and you are way better at Dota than your rank. You and others who have been misplaced in a bracket filled with scrubs have been wronged. The injustice of it all is to much and Valve should issue a formal apology for the harm they have done.

there are misplaced people no doubt, for example people who dont use smurfs when teaching ultra hard noob friends for months....believe me your MMR will suffer und u end up somewhere u shouldnt be. the thing is though prolly 99% of people are in the wrong place, and there are way to many cry babies compared to the 1 % who maybe is misplaced. i bet if i would replay stalk the most of those cry babies here i would have a good laugh and witness people who just are in the pool where they belong :D

Wait, if 99% are in the wrong place, and 1% might be in the wrong place, then <1% are in the right place.
AKA No can Dazzle | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PlTpX7z3Pok
TL+ Member
Kupon3ss
Profile Joined May 2008
時の回廊10066 Posts
December 27 2013 17:19 GMT
#1383
I think he meant that 99% of them are in the right place
When in doubt, just believe in yourself and press buttons
MotherOfRunes
Profile Joined December 2010
Germany2862 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-12-27 17:50:13
December 27 2013 17:48 GMT
#1384
On December 28 2013 02:19 Kupon3ss wrote:
I think he meant that 99% of them are in the right place

yes.... derp :D...edited
"Your Razor sucks!" -Kuroky's Dad
MidgetExplosion
Profile Joined February 2013
United States137 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-12-27 18:23:50
December 27 2013 18:22 GMT
#1385
I rarely play DOTA by myself. I find this game to be nothing short of masochism when not everyone is on the same page. Your team matters so heavily that playing by myself does nothing but frustrate me and makes me super sad. I always play with my brother who's been playing for 8 years and I just started a year ago. My win/loss is always hovering 49-50% after about 1300 games played. I'm always right at 10 wins down to 3-4 wins up any given week. Our other buddy who's not nearly as good at the game as I am maintains a 51-52% win rate, always being about 20-30 wins up after 1100 games played. Dude has no idea how to use the jungle, can't last hit, is never in position to help and thinks going over 500GPM is pro-status. He feeds heavily when he plays with us and usually gets one game in with us and gets frustrated because he got destroyed and then leaves the party...

His MMR is higher than mine.
Greenstripe
Profile Joined April 2010
United States164 Posts
December 27 2013 18:28 GMT
#1386
Kind of sounds like you might be overvaluing your own play there bud.
Kupon3ss
Profile Joined May 2008
時の回廊10066 Posts
December 27 2013 18:53 GMT
#1387
the only constant factor in all of your losses is you
When in doubt, just believe in yourself and press buttons
konadora *
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
Singapore66366 Posts
December 27 2013 19:01 GMT
#1388
so is it supposed to correct that regardless of how i play, loss is a loss, i still lose same points?

look at this:
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]
[image loading]


i lose same points as when on the days i play really bad, even when i play well, no thanks to stupid teammates.

this is stupid -_- i'm honestly never going to get out of this ELO hell hole
POGGERS
Laurens
Profile Joined September 2010
Belgium4558 Posts
December 27 2013 19:16 GMT
#1389
On December 28 2013 03:53 Kupon3ss wrote:
the only constant factor in all of your losses is you


haha, harsh but true, nice way of thinking about it.
NotYango
Profile Joined December 2013
United States719 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-12-27 19:27:21
December 27 2013 19:24 GMT
#1390
On December 28 2013 04:01 konadora wrote:
so is it supposed to correct that regardless of how i play, loss is a loss, i still lose same points?

look at this:
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]
[image loading]


i lose same points as when on the days i play really bad, even when i play well, no thanks to stupid teammates.

this is stupid -_- i'm honestly never going to get out of this ELO hell hole

You will get unwinnable games some of the time. The thing is, the negative experience of those games overly biases you toward the times when that happens. Additionally, people tend to be more critical of people worse than them than they are of people better than them. So it will feel like 80% of the time you have at least one "stupid teammate" because you will not be the worst player on your team in 80% of your games even if matchmaking was perfect.

There are honestly probably many winnable games that you would actually win if you played just a little bit better.

EDIT: In fact, I would argue that most people are totally imperceptive to the skill level of other players unless the differences are very pronounced. I would actually guess that the times where you think you just "played really bad" you're actually playing the same as normal but happened to be playing one of those 40% games where you are the worst or 2nd-worst player on your team--so your mistakes are punished more often and you think you're playing worse when you're playing the same as always.
yango pls
konadora *
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
Singapore66366 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-12-27 19:49:32
December 27 2013 19:46 GMT
#1391
On December 28 2013 04:24 NotYango wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 28 2013 04:01 konadora wrote:
so is it supposed to correct that regardless of how i play, loss is a loss, i still lose same points?

look at this:
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]
[image loading]


i lose same points as when on the days i play really bad, even when i play well, no thanks to stupid teammates.

this is stupid -_- i'm honestly never going to get out of this ELO hell hole

You will get unwinnable games some of the time. The thing is, the negative experience of those games overly biases you toward the times when that happens. Additionally, people tend to be more critical of people worse than them than they are of people better than them. So it will feel like 80% of the time you have at least one "stupid teammate" because you will not be the worst player on your team in 80% of your games even if matchmaking was perfect.

There are honestly probably many winnable games that you would actually win if you played just a little bit better.

EDIT: In fact, I would argue that most people are totally imperceptive to the skill level of other players unless the differences are very pronounced. I would actually guess that the times where you think you just "played really bad" you're actually playing the same as normal but happened to be playing one of those 40% games where you are the worst or 2nd-worst player on your team--so your mistakes are punished more often and you think you're playing worse when you're playing the same as always.

the thing is, if my teammate/i played bad, i understand. i'm not good enough, that much i'd admit. but when i'm stuck with teammates who flame, just afks in base, starts intentional feeding etc and it's like 30% of my games... it just really sucks. i pray hard every game i just get a decent fun game, regardless of win or loss. but because i get so many stupid games, and because the point difference never changes, i seem to be stuck in this hellhole where i keep getting the same kind of people due to the ranking ._.

maybe my point wasn't clear, but i just wish if you performed better but still lost, you'd at least lose less points :/

edit: just went 10-3-23 on shadow demon and i got +28.. 3 more than average lol. it's gonna take a loooooot of games...
POGGERS
Kupon3ss
Profile Joined May 2008
時の回廊10066 Posts
December 27 2013 19:52 GMT
#1392
On December 28 2013 04:46 konadora wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 28 2013 04:24 NotYango wrote:
On December 28 2013 04:01 konadora wrote:
so is it supposed to correct that regardless of how i play, loss is a loss, i still lose same points?

look at this:
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]
[image loading]


i lose same points as when on the days i play really bad, even when i play well, no thanks to stupid teammates.

this is stupid -_- i'm honestly never going to get out of this ELO hell hole

You will get unwinnable games some of the time. The thing is, the negative experience of those games overly biases you toward the times when that happens. Additionally, people tend to be more critical of people worse than them than they are of people better than them. So it will feel like 80% of the time you have at least one "stupid teammate" because you will not be the worst player on your team in 80% of your games even if matchmaking was perfect.

There are honestly probably many winnable games that you would actually win if you played just a little bit better.

EDIT: In fact, I would argue that most people are totally imperceptive to the skill level of other players unless the differences are very pronounced. I would actually guess that the times where you think you just "played really bad" you're actually playing the same as normal but happened to be playing one of those 40% games where you are the worst or 2nd-worst player on your team--so your mistakes are punished more often and you think you're playing worse when you're playing the same as always.

the thing is, if my teammate/i played bad, i understand. i'm not good enough, that much i'd admit. but when i'm stuck with teammates who flame, just afks in base, starts intentional feeding etc and it's like 30% of my games... it just really sucks. i pray hard every game i just get a decent fun game, regardless of win or loss. but because i get so many stupid games, and because the point difference never changes, i seem to be stuck in this hellhole where i keep getting the same kind of people due to the ranking ._.

maybe my point wasn't clear, but i just wish if you performed better but still lost, you'd at least lose less points :/

edit: just went 10-3-23 on shadow demon and i got +28.. 3 more than average lol. it's gonna take a loooooot of games...


Look through your games, for every game where you feel like you lost despite your team. There are games where your team won without any major contributions from you. If you were to accept less points for those games you'll probably realize that the net change would end up being minimal.
When in doubt, just believe in yourself and press buttons
Fatalize
Profile Joined January 2011
France5210 Posts
December 27 2013 20:04 GMT
#1393
On December 28 2013 03:53 Kupon3ss wrote:
the only constant factor in all of your losses is you

Wrong. There's an other constant and that's the shit matchmaking algorithm

It doesnt even matter if I pick skywrath every game and rape every lanes with him, I will be matched 75% of the time with people thatb have no fucking idea how to play the game and will feed afterwards, and this is supposed to be 1% best players.
cilinder007
Profile Joined August 2010
Slovenia7251 Posts
December 27 2013 20:05 GMT
#1394
On December 28 2013 04:24 NotYango wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 28 2013 04:01 konadora wrote:
so is it supposed to correct that regardless of how i play, loss is a loss, i still lose same points?

look at this:
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]
[image loading]


i lose same points as when on the days i play really bad, even when i play well, no thanks to stupid teammates.

this is stupid -_- i'm honestly never going to get out of this ELO hell hole

You will get unwinnable games some of the time. The thing is, the negative experience of those games overly biases you toward the times when that happens. Additionally, people tend to be more critical of people worse than them than they are of people better than them. So it will feel like 80% of the time you have at least one "stupid teammate" because you will not be the worst player on your team in 80% of your games even if matchmaking was perfect.

There are honestly probably many winnable games that you would actually win if you played just a little bit better.

EDIT: In fact, I would argue that most people are totally imperceptive to the skill level of other players unless the differences are very pronounced. I would actually guess that the times where you think you just "played really bad" you're actually playing the same as normal but happened to be playing one of those 40% games where you are the worst or 2nd-worst player on your team--so your mistakes are punished more often and you think you're playing worse when you're playing the same as always.

So what if Im probably the best player in the game almost every game and keep losing because once I start getting a lot of kills the enemy team goes as 5 and my team just doesn't want to deal with that and lets them push free towers and they really really don't want to listen to me if I tell them we sould also keep together
SKC
Profile Joined October 2010
Brazil18828 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-12-27 20:10:25
December 27 2013 20:10 GMT
#1395
You win the games where the system puts the players that "don't know how to play" on the other team. You can't honestly believe it has a personal bias against you, which would be the only explanation. If it happens to you, it happens to the other team. Somehow, other people manage to win and rise up in ranks.
Kupon3ss
Profile Joined May 2008
時の回廊10066 Posts
December 27 2013 20:10 GMT
#1396
On December 28 2013 05:04 Fatalize wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 28 2013 03:53 Kupon3ss wrote:
the only constant factor in all of your losses is you

Wrong. There's an other constant and that's the shit matchmaking algorithm

It doesnt even matter if I pick skywrath every game and rape every lanes with him, I will be matched 75% of the time with people thatb have no fucking idea how to play the game and will feed afterwards, and this is supposed to be 1% best players.


surely you've also lost in inhouses, wraithnight, or against unfair bots
When in doubt, just believe in yourself and press buttons
cilinder007
Profile Joined August 2010
Slovenia7251 Posts
December 27 2013 20:18 GMT
#1397
On December 28 2013 05:10 SKC wrote:
You win the games where the system puts the players that "don't know how to play" on the other team. You can't honestly believe it has a personal bias against you, which would be the only explanation. If it happens to you, it happens to the other team. Somehow, other people manage to win and rise up in ranks.

yes ofcorse you do but there is no way in hell it can be done by having these 40 game win streaks like peeople are saying, the matchmaking is just too random for this sort of thing
I mean this for solo que, might not be the same if you stack
SKC
Profile Joined October 2010
Brazil18828 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-12-27 20:23:28
December 27 2013 20:20 GMT
#1398
People also correlate game knowledge with "deserving" MMR way too higly. Just because a player does something dumb on a game, doesn't mean he shouldn't be at that level. Either because he doesn't do things like that all the time or because he compensates for it in another manner. It may be frustating for some people, but the reality is just that people often don't care about what is going on in the pro scene or even what's written in the changelog. They do dumb shit and it works, so they think it's correct. That's just how matchmaking works. No matter how bad something is, there is a level of play where you can make it work.
On December 28 2013 05:18 cilinder007 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 28 2013 05:10 SKC wrote:
You win the games where the system puts the players that "don't know how to play" on the other team. You can't honestly believe it has a personal bias against you, which would be the only explanation. If it happens to you, it happens to the other team. Somehow, other people manage to win and rise up in ranks.

yes ofcorse you do but there is no way in hell it can be done by having these 40 game win streaks like peeople are saying, the matchmaking is just too random for this sort of thing
I mean this for solo que, might not be the same if you stack

No reasonable person believes you can only move up in MMR by getting a 40 game win streak. An average player with a 40 win streak could probally end up at the very top of matchmaking. It's just absurdly unlikely for a stablished account. The game is too random for this kind of thing, I wouldn't bet on Navi getting a 40 win streak against an average team, it has nothing to do with matchmaking.
Vadrigar
Profile Joined January 2011
Bulgaria2379 Posts
December 27 2013 21:02 GMT
#1399
On December 28 2013 04:01 konadora wrote:
so is it supposed to correct that regardless of how i play, loss is a loss, i still lose same points?

look at this:
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]
[image loading]


i lose same points as when on the days i play really bad, even when i play well, no thanks to stupid teammates.

this is stupid -_- i'm honestly never going to get out of this ELO hell hole


K/D/A ratio has 0 effect on MMR. The only thing that affects it is win or lose. You see fluctuations in points gained/lost (25-28 or whatever) because of the people you got matched AGAINST. If they had a bit more than the ideal average MMR for your rank and you win you get a bit more points and vice-verse.
Fatalize
Profile Joined January 2011
France5210 Posts
December 27 2013 21:05 GMT
#1400
Point is, there are a lot of people that are ranked way higher than they should. And no, "bad game" is not an excuse. When you're 5-16 Storm spirit you're just fucking godawful
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