EPTRanked matchmaking coming to Dota 2 - Page 61
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Please keep the QQ to a minimum if you do not like this update. We are happy to hear your reasoning for not liking a ranked system, but no "OMG VOLVO WHY" posts. | ||
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Kuroeeah
11696 Posts
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MaZza[KIS]
Australia2110 Posts
On December 25 2013 13:11 KlaCkoN wrote: Actually I'm not sure the "very quickly" part is true. I think that if you gave Dendi a stable, established account in the 3k range it would take him at least 150 games to get back to his true mmr, probably more. The system really isnt very elastic outside of the initial placement matches (which are extremely so) Not to mention that if, like me, you get paired with players on their "bad game" during calibration and lose 8/10 calibration matches you get a sh*t ranking. I have friends who have recently got ~4K ranks and they all acknowledge I am better player than they are... So, I got unlucky for 8 games and boom I'm stuck having to claw my way out. | ||
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KlaCkoN
Sweden1661 Posts
On December 25 2013 13:21 Kuroeeah wrote: so getting to a specific "brag-worthy" rating is your definition of fun? playing the game at that rating is his definition of fun. | ||
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Kupon3ss
時の回廊10066 Posts
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MaZza[KIS]
Australia2110 Posts
On December 25 2013 13:21 Kuroeeah wrote: so getting to a specific "brag-worthy" rating is your definition of fun? You've missed the point. It's not about the rating, it's about the average skill of the players around you and how fun the games can be playing with a capable team, instead of having to carry feeders and ragers who think they're pro at dota. I had a 0-9-8 ursa spend the whole game telling me how to build and what to do while I carried his ass and didn't listen to anything he said. We eventually lost because he failed at carrying. That's just plain annoying! I can't win games without going carry or semi-carry. Again, this is just my experience... | ||
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TrainSamurai
339 Posts
On December 25 2013 13:21 Kuroeeah wrote: so getting to a specific "brag-worthy" rating is your definition of fun? Half of it. The other half is to just play with better players. | ||
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Nevuk
United States16280 Posts
On December 25 2013 12:58 TrainSamurai wrote: I get that record consistenly which is why I'm complaining. 9-3 is just a number I remember because I got that during xmas break, overall my winrate in rank is like 75-80% as in since 1.5 weeks?. What the hell am I suppose to do, get 100% win rate? Sorry buddy I'm above the 3.5k level but i'm sure as hell not that good. I don't play a lot of games per day dude, if you play 3 games per day would you expect someone to get 75% for that day? no of course not thats impossible because its either 0 33 66 or 100. I as a sniper Found your problem | ||
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MaZza[KIS]
Australia2110 Posts
On December 25 2013 13:24 Kupon3ss wrote: if you're having to play differently and try hard to work yourself out of "Elo hell", It means that's the level you're average play is and you need to improve to raise the rating, which is hard. sounds like the game is working as intended Game is not hard because of individual play. Game is hard because approx 30-40% of the time in mid 3K rankings u get inconsistent players on their "bad game" and you lose simply because of their poor picks or feeding. It always feels like two steps forward, one step back. This means that it takes a hell of a long time to climb out or you have to play 2 levels above where you're at to carry these people in a game. I would love to actually give a Pro player a 3K account and see how long it takes them to dig themselves out as someone mentioned. | ||
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TrainSamurai
339 Posts
On December 25 2013 13:24 Kupon3ss wrote: if you're having to play differently and try hard to work yourself out of "Elo hell", It means that's the level you're average play is and you need to improve to raise the rating, which is hard. sounds like the game is working as intended OBVIOUS I CHEERY PICKED THAT CASE BECAUSE IT STOOD OUT TO ME I don't really see why you should play "standard" when you're very behind, I did what I had to get my team the win obviously, I saw a path "I'm not snowballnig hard enough, support dunno how to ward so I'll do that mysel and try to stem the bleeding" and I took it. Would you believe he went 13-1 before I intervened? Once again I CHEERY PICKED this senario. If the game is even in the other lanes after laning stage then I have a good chance of winning (Of course I've had my fair share of throws because I like to yolo) because I always find a way to win the lane or get more than I should. Once again I'm not having trouble winning. Just because I complain about the particular game doesn't mean I had trouble winning that game. Get off your high horses. | ||
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Kuroeeah
11696 Posts
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TrainSamurai
339 Posts
On December 25 2013 13:35 Kuroeeah wrote: you should stop yourself before you start saying stuff like getting to 4k rating from the 3k bracket is harder than getting to 5k from the 4k bracket. No where did i say that. My main point was not about difficulty at all. I probably shouldn't have even included that part in. Get off your high horse I random every game and play all positions  , I'm a bit sensible and random b4 the team but I'm not having trouble winning. Thats whats wrong with this thread. My point wasn't even remotely about how difficult the games were, planting wards as a sniper IS NOT HARD. | ||
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Kuroeeah
11696 Posts
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KlaCkoN
Sweden1661 Posts
Like for me personally the system works great. I didn't tank my placement matches and I get games at my skill level. I went on a 12 game losing streak and the quality of games didn't chance noticeably, neither did it when I won 10 games in a row. And considering I'm in grad school I am very unlikely to ever become genuinely better at dota this state of affairs is great. However if someone truly is better than their rating, on account of having lost points playing with friends / had bad luck during placement or because you simply got better at the game: ranking up is incredibly annoying / time consuming. Again +- 25 points means it would take fucking Dendi 150 games+ to get a stable 3k account back up where it should be, I can see why some people find that frustrating. However I can also see why the system is designed this way, considering the vast majority of players (me included!) are never going to get significantly better at the game, the average game quality is certainly increased by having everyone stay roughly where they are. | ||
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SKC
Brazil18828 Posts
On December 25 2013 13:47 KlaCkoN wrote: I'm not sure why everyone is so hostile towards the fact that some people have problems with how inelastic the system is? Before we could see the numbers it was easy to dismiss such claims but now when the +/- 25 thing is in plain sight I don't understand why it's still contentious. Like for me personally the system works great. I didn't tank my placement matches and I get games at my skill level. I went on a 12 game losing streak and the quality of games didn't chance noticeably, neither did it when I won 10 games in a row. And considering I'm in grad school I am very unlikely to ever become genuinely better at dota this state of affairs is great. However if someone truly is better than their rating, on account of having lost points playing with friends / had bad luck during placement or because you simply got better at the game: ranking up is incredibly annoying / time consuming. Again +- 25 points means it would take fucking Dendi 150 games+ to get a stable 3k account back up where it should be, I can see why some people find that frustrating. However I can also see why the system is designed this way, considering the vast majority of players (me included!) are never going to get significantly better at the game, the average game quality is certainly increased by having everyone stay roughly where they are. Because the system should be fairly inelastic. That doesn't mean it's completelly inelastic. As you said, sometimes you go through a 10 or even more winning or losing streak, and your ranks shouldn't be jumping up and down drastically, your skill didn't change. If you tanked your account for such a long time, it makes sense that it's much harder to get it back on track. But almost noone that complains about Elo hell actually tanked their acconts for a long period of time, they were just at that level from the start and couldn't get out of it. I personally doubt it would take Dendi 150 games to get an acc out of "Elo hell". After some times you should be past the point of what a reasonable winning streak is and the system should adapt, unless what Valve has said about uncertainty has been a plain lie, which doesn't make sense since it's natural that MMR systems use it. | ||
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Kupon3ss
時の回廊10066 Posts
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ChunderBoy
3242 Posts
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Eriksen
Micronesia720 Posts
On December 25 2013 16:47 ChunderBoy wrote: give me ur account and ill do it in 2 days omg are you that guy who's ranked #1 in d2ladder's solo ladder? | ||
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ChunderBoy
3242 Posts
On December 25 2013 16:55 Eriksen wrote: omg are you that guy who's ranked #1 in d2ladder's solo ladder? idk but know of any available waifu material girls? | ||
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Kuroeeah
11696 Posts
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dae
Canada1600 Posts
On December 25 2013 13:36 TrainSamurai wrote: No where did i say that. My main point was not about difficulty at all. I probably shouldn't have even included that part in. Get off your high horse I random every game and play all positions , I'm a bit sensible and random b4 the team but I'm not having trouble winning. Thats whats wrong with this thread. My point wasn't even remotely about how difficult the games were, planting wards as a sniper IS NOT HARD. Ok, so it seems like your problem is that you feel like your mmr is below the level you should be at, and that the system is preventing you from easily climbing it to be where you should be. This raises the question: If you want to raise your mmr, why are you dicking around? These are ranked games. Yet you are randoming at the start of picking, which means a few things. One, you are playing a hero that you probably have not recently played, therefor are not playing at your best on. Secondly, you pick that hero instantly, allowing the other team to counterpick/design a teamcomp against whatever hero you randomed. Thirdly, if you random a hard carry and your team has a guy that can only play hard carry you've effectively just lost the game for your team. Fourth, being able to play all roles sounds all well and good, but it also means that you are worse at all the roles then if you just focused on a couple. Finally, you could random a hero that is not that strong right now, meaning you also have to play a hero that is inherently weaker then some others. You are intentionally putting yourself and your team at a disadvantage, yet come here to complain that you can't raise your rating. Like it or not, the best way to win games is to consistently play a small subset of very strong heroes, and get very very good at them. It is also to abuse things like waiting until the last minute to pick, and picking the "broken" heroes like broodmother. It doesn't matter how "good" of a player you are, that can play all positions equally well, if your handicapping yourself and your team from the get go. | ||
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