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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On March 01 2014 02:53 Gorsameth wrote:
Yeah if this was a planned reinforcement of Russian bases I don't think the government would be jumping high and low calling for every favor and help they can get.
Essentially the part of Ukrainian side that Russia recognizes knew about that. Guess what, Ukrainian side != part of it that is recognized by Russian government (c). So yeah, it is actually rather funny.
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On March 01 2014 02:53 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2014 02:52 mcc wrote:On March 01 2014 02:49 xDaunt wrote:On March 01 2014 02:44 mahrgell wrote:
And as you quoted, those Russian units are there in accordance to the agreements between Ukraine and Russia...
They have full rights of passage on the whole crimea.
Of course the Russians are reinforcing their position around their bases, when there are such obvious tensions in the region...
What other nations would do otherwise when it is about their own military bases? o.O That article doesn't describe the mere fortification of military bases, and the Ukrainian government sure doesn't think that that is all that Russia is doing. Ukrainian government can be trusted about as much as Putin can. I'd be a little upset if another country was blockading my coast guard base.
Did I say that Russia is the good guy ? Just that reaction of Ukrainian government cannot be taken as truthful indication of anything. So if they say that Russians are invading I am going to trust them about as much as when Putin declares that he has absolutely no interest in Crimea. Especially considering the power nazis have in this new Ukrainian government and how glad they would "deal" with the situation in Crimea.
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I feel like the terms "nazi" and "fascist" are being thrown about a little too loosely as descriptors of the new Ukranian government. Maybe I've missed it, but I haven't seen anything to indicate that the new government is about to start persecuting minorities.
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You haven't missed it, there are simply folks that think that repeatedly labeling something affirms said label.
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On February 28 2014 22:53 Derez wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2014 22:50 mcc wrote:On February 28 2014 21:50 m4ini wrote:On February 28 2014 21:17 AleXoundOS wrote:On February 28 2014 21:05 radiatoren wrote:
...the people doing this are clearly Russian and military. Crimea doesn't need any additional military yet, they have their own police, their own anti-maidan activists, and their own military troops. People talking in Russian do not belong to Russia automatically. And Crimea will solve it's problems independently with referendum that will be held at the same day as elections in Kiev. After seeing that video, i have to agree. It's not "pro-russian-militia", but russia going full retard. Just because i'm not entirely sure, sending military transports into a country without permission, what repercussions could that have? What did you see in the video, except unclear helicopters flying somewhere in the world at unclear point in time. Also Russia has a base in Sevastopol, are you surprised they have military equipment there ? Seems to me you are jumping to conclusions based on nothing. International media are reporting that they're wearing the new russian military uniform.
I can buy exactly this uniform in a shop that is 1km from my home and what?
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On March 01 2014 03:09 AleXoundOS wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2014 22:53 Derez wrote:On February 28 2014 22:50 mcc wrote:On February 28 2014 21:50 m4ini wrote:On February 28 2014 21:17 AleXoundOS wrote:On February 28 2014 21:05 radiatoren wrote:
...the people doing this are clearly Russian and military. Crimea doesn't need any additional military yet, they have their own police, their own anti-maidan activists, and their own military troops. People talking in Russian do not belong to Russia automatically. And Crimea will solve it's problems independently with referendum that will be held at the same day as elections in Kiev. After seeing that video, i have to agree. It's not "pro-russian-militia", but russia going full retard. Just because i'm not entirely sure, sending military transports into a country without permission, what repercussions could that have? What did you see in the video, except unclear helicopters flying somewhere in the world at unclear point in time. Also Russia has a base in Sevastopol, are you surprised they have military equipment there ? Seems to me you are jumping to conclusions based on nothing. International media are reporting that they're wearing the new russian military uniform. I can buy exactly this uniform in a shop that is 1km from my home and what?
Can you also buy a dozen military helicopters there?
Edit: F*** it this is Russia were talking about. You probably can lol
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On March 01 2014 02:56 Roman666 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2014 02:54 Gorsameth wrote:On March 01 2014 02:53 Roman666 wrote:On March 01 2014 02:49 xDaunt wrote:On March 01 2014 02:44 mahrgell wrote:
And as you quoted, those Russian units are there in accordance to the agreements between Ukraine and Russia...
They have full rights of passage on the whole crimea.
Of course the Russians are reinforcing their position around their bases, when there are such obvious tensions in the region...
What other nations would do otherwise when it is about their own military bases? o.O That article doesn't describe the mere fortification of military bases, and the Ukrainian government sure doesn't think that that is all that Russia is doing. Well you know that Russia considers current government illegitimate. And after what poor coward Viktor said, that Russia should not stand and watch, him being considered a legitimate president by Kremlin, virtually gives them green light for this shit. Remember that he always said in the same speech that he didnt want Russia to interfere. Funny how that bit was cut out on russian tv. True, that whole speech was a bit hilarious, hysteric and illogical. You would be pretty bm too if you lost two games in a row to what you consider cheese. Plus they stole all his animals. Especially now that the Swiss and Austrians woke up and started asking questions like "How did a 40 year old dentist who 3 years ago didnt have 5 dollars to rub together become a billionaire with 200 mm dollars in assets in our country?"
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On March 01 2014 01:00 Sent. wrote:
Honestly I think Crimea should return to Mother Russia. If I'm not mistaken most of people there consider themselves Russians and they're historically closer to Russia. I think it's a bit unjust to force them to live under Ukrainian flag just because of Khrushchev's crazy whim. On the other hand it would be beneficial for Russia and what's good for Russia is usually bad for Poland so I wouldn't be very happy if that actually happened.
Can the 45% who dont want to join russia then breakaway and re-join Ukraine? Maybe the Crimean Turks dont feel comfortable in Slav countries, so Turkey should get a piece of Crimea too. But why stop there, Southern Russia is almost Russianless, why not hand it over to the Turks and Iranians, it was their land before crazy whims of Russian czars...
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airspace over crimea officially closed ...
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On March 01 2014 03:05 xDaunt wrote:
I feel like the terms "nazi" and "fascist" are being thrown about a little too loosely as descriptors of the new Ukranian government. Maybe I've missed it, but I haven't seen anything to indicate that the new government is about to start persecuting minorities.
Not the whole government. As for the specific name, neofascists is probably the best term. But considering that, if I remember correctly, Svoboda was founded as Social-National party and though they try to change their image, it is not going so well when their expressed views are pretty much racist to this day and their anti-semitism is not even hidden. As for persecution of minorities, the regional languages were banned in official acts nearly immediately after new government took power. I do not think they will officially do more as they need the help from the West, but considering that they basically control armed paramilitary if they dare to do something it will be through them. In the meantime they will most likely try to gain influence in police as that is standard tactic. Also considering that all their political opponents are corrupt as hell and they are just moderately, there is a chance for them to gain even more popularity.
It is ironic really that their first reaction after their protest succeeds is to decry protest in Crimea as terrorist and illegal act 
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On March 01 2014 03:06 farvacola wrote:
You haven't missed it, there are simply folks that think that repeatedly labeling something affirms said label.
Are you going to claim that Svoboda is not a neo-fascist party ?
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On March 01 2014 03:20 Sub40APM wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2014 01:00 Sent. wrote:
Honestly I think Crimea should return to Mother Russia. If I'm not mistaken most of people there consider themselves Russians and they're historically closer to Russia. I think it's a bit unjust to force them to live under Ukrainian flag just because of Khrushchev's crazy whim. On the other hand it would be beneficial for Russia and what's good for Russia is usually bad for Poland so I wouldn't be very happy if that actually happened. Can the 45% who dont want to join russia then breakaway and re-join Ukraine? Maybe the Crimean Turks dont feel comfortable in Slav countries, so Turkey should get a piece of Crimea too. But why stop there, Southern Russia is almost Russianless, why not hand it over to the Turks and Iranians, it was their land before crazy whims of Russian czars...
So the 45% outweigh the 55% ?
EDIT: assuming your numbers are even correct.
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On March 01 2014 03:30 mcc wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2014 03:06 farvacola wrote:
You haven't missed it, there are simply folks that think that repeatedly labeling something affirms said label. Are you going to claim that Svoboda is not a neo-fascist party ?
No we are claiming they have no power or influence atm.
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On March 01 2014 03:33 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2014 03:30 mcc wrote:On March 01 2014 03:06 farvacola wrote:
You haven't missed it, there are simply folks that think that repeatedly labeling something affirms said label. Are you going to claim that Svoboda is not a neo-fascist party ? No we are claiming they have no power or influence atm.
Don't they have 4 ministries (judiciary in that) and first vice-premier ?
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On March 01 2014 03:33 mcc wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2014 03:20 Sub40APM wrote:On March 01 2014 01:00 Sent. wrote:
Honestly I think Crimea should return to Mother Russia. If I'm not mistaken most of people there consider themselves Russians and they're historically closer to Russia. I think it's a bit unjust to force them to live under Ukrainian flag just because of Khrushchev's crazy whim. On the other hand it would be beneficial for Russia and what's good for Russia is usually bad for Poland so I wouldn't be very happy if that actually happened. Can the 45% who dont want to join russia then breakaway and re-join Ukraine? Maybe the Crimean Turks dont feel comfortable in Slav countries, so Turkey should get a piece of Crimea too. But why stop there, Southern Russia is almost Russianless, why not hand it over to the Turks and Iranians, it was their land before crazy whims of Russian czars... So the 45% outweigh the 55% ? EDIT: assuming your numbers are even correct.
Yes when the 55% already have autonomy in their region and had one since 93.
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On March 01 2014 03:30 mcc wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2014 03:06 farvacola wrote:
You haven't missed it, there are simply folks that think that repeatedly labeling something affirms said label. Are you going to claim that Svoboda is not a neo-fascist party ?
Are you going to claim that the entire Maidan movement has not been called Nazi and fascist ad nauseum by:
The Russian government
Yanukovych
About a third of the posters in this thread
That is what people are objecting to, not calling Svoboda fascist which it is.
EDIT: by the way, the Russian parliament has voted to give the members of the Berkut Ukrainian riot police Russian passports, and has also passed a preliminary vote to declare the Crimea a part of the Russian Federation. This passport thing is the same thing they did in Georgia, they handed everyone and anyone who wanted a Russian passport a Russian passport and then claimed they were protecting Russian citizens when they went to war. The Crimea has basically been annexed in the last two days by the Russian military, I doubt they're going to leave without a big war. I thought wars for territorial gain and changing borders through war in general - and that is what Russia has done, they've invaded the rest of the Crimea, that is waging war, just because there weren't shots fired doesn't mean jack - was a big no-no after WW2, but I guess not... (Eagerly awaiting some few millions to take the streets in Europe and protest against Russian imperialism the same way they did against George Bush... wait no I'm not, we all know that's never gonna happen)
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You fail to see the connection between Crimea and Russia,the lack of it between Crimea and Ukraine and how it affects the situation
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On March 01 2014 04:03 DeepElemBlues wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2014 03:30 mcc wrote:On March 01 2014 03:06 farvacola wrote:
You haven't missed it, there are simply folks that think that repeatedly labeling something affirms said label. Are you going to claim that Svoboda is not a neo-fascist party ? Are you going to claim that the entire Maidan movement has not been called Nazi and fascist ad nauseum by: The Russian government Yanukovych About a third of the posters in this thread That is what people are objecting to, not calling Svoboda fascist which it is. EDIT: by the way, the Russian parliament has voted to give the members of the Berkut Ukrainian riot police Russian passports, and has also passed a preliminary vote to declare the Crimea a part of the Russian Federation. This passport thing is the same thing they did in Georgia, they handed everyone and anyone who wanted a Russian passport a Russian passport and then claimed they were protecting Russian citizens when they went to war. The Crimea has basically been annexed in the last two days by the Russian military, I doubt they're going to leave without a big war. I thought wars for territorial gain and changing borders through war in general - and that is what Russia has done, they've invaded the rest of the Crimea, that is waging war, just because there weren't shots fired doesn't mean jack - was a big no-no after WW2, but I guess not... (Eagerly awaiting some few millions to take the streets in Europe and protest against Russian imperialism the same way they did against George Bush... wait no I'm not, we all know that's never gonna happen)
Not by me, I said from the beginning that I mean part of the government. True, I exagerrated as they do not have half the government, so sorry for that hyperbole.
As for the Crimea. The situation there is complicated. The people who occupied the government buildings there are not all Putin's puppets. Not all of them. Many just are afraid of current Ukrainian regime, some want independence, some want to join Russia even though they dislike Putin. And some are of course Putin followers. Of course all of them are playing into Putin's hands.
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EPT
