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On March 01 2014 01:53 Makro wrote: starting a nuclear war for ukraine (no offense) seems to be highly over exagerated, i don't think leaders (more, their advisor) are that stupid Here is the thing tho. Putin is pushing to see how far he can go before someone stops him. Its been going on for a while. If he coming in to "protect" the Crieme population the EU is forced to either send counter troops or let it happen.
If they do send the aid that the new Ukrainian government is asking for your going to have EU and Russian troops staring each other down along rifle barrels and at that point anything can happen.
Ofc we hope our leaders have enough brains to not let this escalate but this back and forth push between Russia and the EU/US has been going on ever since Putin came to power and at some point it may well go off. Sometimes in a game of chicken neither side backs off in time.
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On March 01 2014 01:58 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2014 01:53 Makro wrote: starting a nuclear war for ukraine (no offense) seems to be highly over exagerated, i don't think leaders (more, their advisor) are that stupid Here is the thing tho. Putin is pushing to see how far he can go before someone stops him. Its been going on for a while. If he coming in to "protect" the Crieme population the EU is forced to either send counter troops or let it happen. If they do send the aid that the new Ukrainian government is asking for your going to have EU and Russian troops staring each other down along rifle barrels and at that point anything can happen. Ofc we hope our leaders have enough brains to not let this escalate but this back and forth push between Russia and the EU/US has been going on ever since Putin came to power and at some point it may well go off. Sometimes in a game of chicken neither side backs off in time.
i understand, indeed your concern are right
at first i didn't see things like this
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Putin will not intervene directly unless Ukrainian nazis that now control half of the government start the ethnic cleansing in Crimea and the east of Ukraine they have in their program. At that point West can either support nazi paramilitary organization or let Russia do what it wants.
And the prosecution of pro-Russian population in Crimea seems to be starting with politically-motivated warrants already being created. Frankly the only peaceful solution to the conflict would be referendum in Doneck and Crimea about independence or joining the Russia. Especially since those areas were added to Ukraine by fiat and people there are highly dependent on Russia anyway. But that will not happen because nationalism is more important than dying people.
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
About those helicopters: 1. How do i know from where they are flying? I kind of doubt, they would be going all the way from Rostov-on-Don (and for some reason i am fairly certain that closest base to places, these videos are supposedly from is around there). 2. Can someone confirm the fact that places they were seen at are indeed these?
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On March 01 2014 02:25 lolfail9001 wrote: About those helicopters: 1. How do i know from where they are flying? I kind of doubt, they would be going all the way from Rostov-on-Don (and for some reason i am fairly certain that closest base to places, these videos are supposedly from is around there). 2. Can someone confirm the fact that places they were seen at are indeed these?
seems like a brainwashed russian ,wont even take your reply seriously.
User was warned for this post
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On March 01 2014 02:31 whiteLotus wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2014 02:25 lolfail9001 wrote: About those helicopters: 1. How do i know from where they are flying? I kind of doubt, they would be going all the way from Rostov-on-Don (and for some reason i am fairly certain that closest base to places, these videos are supposedly from is around there). 2. Can someone confirm the fact that places they were seen at are indeed these? seems like a brainwashed russian ,wont even take your reply seriously. Not really brainwashed, just interested. See, i have 0 reason to believe almost any source, just because i am kind of not-interested in not knowing truth. So, some evidence is welcome.
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On March 01 2014 02:25 lolfail9001 wrote: About those helicopters: 1. How do i know from where they are flying? I kind of doubt, they would be going all the way from Rostov-on-Don (and for some reason i am fairly certain that closest base to places, these videos are supposedly from is around there). 2. Can someone confirm the fact that places they were seen at are indeed these? Well, your own government is admitting that it is moving troops into the Crimea.
Russian troops have moved into Crimea in what Moscow is calling a mission to “protect Black Sea Fleet’s positions” but which the Ukrainian government has denounced as an “armed intervention.”
The Russian foreign ministry said Friday that it had informed the Ukrainian government that armoured units from the Black Sea Fleet base near Sevastopol had entered Crimea in order to protect fleet positions.
“The Ukrainian side was also passed a note regarding the movement of armoured vehicles of the Russian Black Sea Fleet in Crimea, which is happening in full accordance with the foundation Russian-Ukrainian agreement on the Black Sea Fleet,” the ministry said in a statement posted on its website on Friday afternoon.
In the same note the Russian foreign ministry said it had declined a Ukrainian request for “bilateral consultations” on events in Crimea because they are “the result of recent internal political processes in Ukraine.”
Unconfirmed reports were emerging late on Friday that a convoy of armoured vehicles were moving up the Sevastopol highway toward Simferopol, the regional capital.
Earlier armed men in unmarked uniforms occupied key transportation hubs in the Crimea on Friday, in what the Ukrainian government denounced as an “armed intervention” by Russian troops.
Men in unmarked camouflage uniforms occupied two airports and blocked the road between Simferopol and Sevastopol before dawn, while a Russian warship was reported to have blockaded the entrance to the bay at Balaklava, the home of the Ukrainian coast guard.
Several dozen men in camouflage uniforms and carrying AK-74 assault rifles and PK 7.62 mm machine guns occupied a restaurant and patrolled the car park and forecourt of Simferopol international airport early on Friday morning.
The soldiers, who wore no identifying insignia, refused to answer questions from journalists as they strolled up and down outside the airport.
The troops made no apparent attempt to interfere with the running of the airport or take over key infrastructure, contenting themselves with strolling up and down the car park at a leisurely place, apparently deliberately for the benefit of television cameras.
While those patrolling the car park carried assault rifles without magazines attached, belt ammunition could be seen loaded into two medium machine guns carried by sentries outside the occupied restaurant building. Some rifles carried telescopic sights and under-barrel grenade launchers.
They were backed by civilian volunteers wearing the orange and black St George’s ribbon, a symbol of Russian military prowess that has been adopted by pro-Russian activists in Crimea as an identifying mark.
“We are here for your safety,” said one man, who described himself as a member of the “people’s militia and ordered journalists away from the restaurant the troops had occupied. “If you don’t move away from this building maybe someone will throw a grenade at you,” he said. He denied he was threatening journalists, citing an incident yesterday when armed men in the regional parliament building reportedly answered shouted questions with a stun grenade.
“It is an unpredictable situation and we want to make sure everything remains calm. We are just people from this city who want to protect their families,” he said.
The man refused to give his name, but said he and his group arrived at the airport at 6 AM. He refused to say who controlled his "militia" or whether they accompanied or knew the identity of the mysterious soldiers.
Meanwhile, at least 20 men wearing the uniform of Russia’s Black Sea Fleet carrying automatic riffles were reported to have surrounded a Ukrainian border guard post in the port city of Sevastopol on Friday.
A serviceman who identified himself as a Black Sea Fleet officer said “we are here…so as not to have a repeat of the Maidan,” Reuters reported.
A Russian warship is reported to have blocked the bay at Balaklava, where the Ukrainian coast guard is based.
Source.
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And as you quoted, those Russian units are there in accordance to the agreements between Ukraine and Russia... They have full rights of passage on the whole crimea. Of course the Russians are reinforcing their position around their bases, when there are such obvious tensions in the region...
What other nations would do otherwise when it is about their own military bases? o.O
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Well seems my prediction was wrong and Putin is actually doing something rather stupid. Or maybe he actually knows that he can afford this provocation.
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I don't really understand why they would need to 'fortify' the airports though. If Crimea is already heavily pro-Russian, shouldn't all assets be pretty safe? Are they scared of who might arrive by plane? I don't see the logic here
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On March 01 2014 02:44 mahrgell wrote: And as you quoted, those Russian units are there in accordance to the agreements between Ukraine and Russia... They have full rights of passage on the whole crimea. Of course the Russians are reinforcing their position around their bases, when there are such obvious tensions in the region...
What other nations would do otherwise when it is about their own military bases? o.O That article doesn't describe the mere fortification of military bases, and the Ukrainian government sure doesn't think that that is all that Russia is doing.
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On March 01 2014 02:49 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2014 02:44 mahrgell wrote: And as you quoted, those Russian units are there in accordance to the agreements between Ukraine and Russia... They have full rights of passage on the whole crimea. Of course the Russians are reinforcing their position around their bases, when there are such obvious tensions in the region...
What other nations would do otherwise when it is about their own military bases? o.O That article doesn't describe the mere fortification of military bases, and the Ukrainian government sure doesn't think that that is all that Russia is doing. Ukrainian government can be trusted about as much as Putin can.
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On March 01 2014 02:49 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2014 02:44 mahrgell wrote: And as you quoted, those Russian units are there in accordance to the agreements between Ukraine and Russia... They have full rights of passage on the whole crimea. Of course the Russians are reinforcing their position around their bases, when there are such obvious tensions in the region...
What other nations would do otherwise when it is about their own military bases? o.O That article doesn't describe the mere fortification of military bases, and the Ukrainian government sure doesn't think that that is all that Russia is doing. Well you know that Russia considers current government illegitimate. And after what poor coward Viktor said, that Russia should not stand and watch, him being considered a legitimate president by Kremlin, virtually gives them green light for this shit.
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On March 01 2014 02:52 mcc wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2014 02:49 xDaunt wrote:On March 01 2014 02:44 mahrgell wrote: And as you quoted, those Russian units are there in accordance to the agreements between Ukraine and Russia... They have full rights of passage on the whole crimea. Of course the Russians are reinforcing their position around their bases, when there are such obvious tensions in the region...
What other nations would do otherwise when it is about their own military bases? o.O That article doesn't describe the mere fortification of military bases, and the Ukrainian government sure doesn't think that that is all that Russia is doing. Ukrainian government can be trusted about as much as Putin can. I'd be a little upset if another country was blockading my coast guard base.
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Yeah if this was a planned reinforcement of Russian bases I don't think the government would be jumping high and low calling for every favor and help they can get.
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On March 01 2014 02:53 Roman666 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2014 02:49 xDaunt wrote:On March 01 2014 02:44 mahrgell wrote: And as you quoted, those Russian units are there in accordance to the agreements between Ukraine and Russia... They have full rights of passage on the whole crimea. Of course the Russians are reinforcing their position around their bases, when there are such obvious tensions in the region...
What other nations would do otherwise when it is about their own military bases? o.O That article doesn't describe the mere fortification of military bases, and the Ukrainian government sure doesn't think that that is all that Russia is doing. Well you know that Russia considers current government illegitimate. And after what poor coward Viktor said, that Russia should not stand and watch, him being considered a legitimate president by Kremlin, virtually gives them green light for this shit. Remember that he always said in the same speech that he didnt want Russia to interfere. Funny how that bit was cut out on russian tv.
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On March 01 2014 02:54 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2014 02:53 Roman666 wrote:On March 01 2014 02:49 xDaunt wrote:On March 01 2014 02:44 mahrgell wrote: And as you quoted, those Russian units are there in accordance to the agreements between Ukraine and Russia... They have full rights of passage on the whole crimea. Of course the Russians are reinforcing their position around their bases, when there are such obvious tensions in the region...
What other nations would do otherwise when it is about their own military bases? o.O That article doesn't describe the mere fortification of military bases, and the Ukrainian government sure doesn't think that that is all that Russia is doing. Well you know that Russia considers current government illegitimate. And after what poor coward Viktor said, that Russia should not stand and watch, him being considered a legitimate president by Kremlin, virtually gives them green light for this shit. Remember that he always said in the same speech that he didnt want Russia to interfere. Funny how that bit was cut out on russian tv. True, that whole speech was a bit hilarious, hysteric and illogical.
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On March 01 2014 02:54 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2014 02:53 Roman666 wrote:On March 01 2014 02:49 xDaunt wrote:On March 01 2014 02:44 mahrgell wrote: And as you quoted, those Russian units are there in accordance to the agreements between Ukraine and Russia... They have full rights of passage on the whole crimea. Of course the Russians are reinforcing their position around their bases, when there are such obvious tensions in the region...
What other nations would do otherwise when it is about their own military bases? o.O That article doesn't describe the mere fortification of military bases, and the Ukrainian government sure doesn't think that that is all that Russia is doing. Well you know that Russia considers current government illegitimate. And after what poor coward Viktor said, that Russia should not stand and watch, him being considered a legitimate president by Kremlin, virtually gives them green light for this shit. Remember that he always said in the same speech that he didnt want Russia to interfere. Funny how that bit was cut out on russian tv. To be more precise he said he said Russia has a duty to act but not in a military fashion, unless the BBC translator I was listening to was off the mark.
Below: Yeah, that makes sense. I really hope it doesn't come to that.
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On March 01 2014 02:48 Warfie wrote: I don't really understand why they would need to 'fortify' the airports though. If Crimea is already heavily pro-Russian, shouldn't all assets be pretty safe? Are they scared of who might arrive by plane? I don't see the logic here
They want to secure airports so they can bring more troops to the area via helicopters/airplanes, which is really important in case they end up in some kind of military conflict
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