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On February 28 2014 05:02 DeepElemBlues wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2014 04:59 Sokrates wrote:On February 28 2014 04:57 DeepElemBlues wrote:So... "i dont care about you" is a valid reason to make stuff up and then attack someone over it. ok lol deb, i was talking about your post history, not a future post you would make. No, you weren't. Talking about some future scenario and what I would do in it is talking about future posts I would make. And my post history doesn't support your claim anyway. So... where did you get your functioning crystal ball? The funny thing about you is that you are basically like zeo but yet you attack everyone that doesnt share your point off view. You are even worse than zeo if i think about it. It's not about me no matter how much you want it to be, and you and zeo are two peas in a pod your attack on me is a classic case of projection 
The funny thing is that i m neutral and divided on my opinion about this topic. You are extremely biased just like zeo. Funny that you try to throw me into the same basket and everyone that is not agreeing with you.
Your post history reads like you are working for the US government.
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On February 28 2014 05:02 nunez wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2014 04:57 DeepElemBlues wrote:So... "i dont care about you" is a valid reason to make stuff up and then attack someone over it. ok lol deb, i was talking about your post history, not a future post you would make. No, you weren't. Talking about some future scenario and how I would lose my shit over the course of half a page about it (presumably it would be all my posts taking up half a page) is talking about future posts I would make. And my post history doesn't support your claim anyway. So... where did you get your functioning crystal ball? haha, your post history tooootally supports that claim. don't be coy. birth defect.
No it doesn't, and I'm done with talking about it unless you're going to actually support your criticism. If it so totally supports that claim, getting the proper quotes shouldn't be hard. TL does have a search function.
The funny thing is that i m neutral and divided on my opinion about this topic.
Sure you are lol
I am extremely biased just like zeo.
FTFY, yup.
Funny that you try to throw me into the same basket and everyone that is not agreeing with you.
Says the man who parrots whatever the Kremlin's line is today just like zeo.
Your post history reads like you are working for the US government.
Yeah I guess when I criticized NSA spying on Americans or said America shouldn't give weapons to Egypt any more after the massacres at the protest camps I was working for the US government. Says the guy whose posts read like he's working for the Russian government :/ I have never once said "Oh well the US government says this" about the Ukraine and I never will, because I don't need to. Everything and anything you could possibly need to find out about the Ukraine for the purpose of talking about the current situation you can learn without having to rely on US government provided information.
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On February 28 2014 05:03 Cheerio wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2014 03:05 m4ini wrote:On February 28 2014 03:01 Sub40APM wrote:On February 28 2014 02:57 m4ini wrote:On February 28 2014 02:42 Sub40APM wrote:On February 27 2014 22:24 r.Evo wrote:On February 27 2014 19:43 Ghanburighan wrote:On February 27 2014 19:17 r.Evo wrote:On February 27 2014 18:22 mahrgell wrote:
Sounds like what usually happens with North Korea doing some weird shit and spontaneous US-South Korean trainings.
So boring stuff, but everyone likes to show off a bit and pretends to be supermegaawesome.
Btw:
as it wasnt mentioned: Berkut was dissolved yesterday by the new minister of internal affairs. Well.. they ould have been useful now! If I understand things correctly Russia is making these moves to defend the Russian speaking population of Ukraine, so comparing it to NK/SK might not be a smart move. Correct me if I'm wrong, but if the majority of a certain area is Russian speaking (aka eastern Ukraine) they have all the rights in the world to be protected of the Ukrainian speaking population of the west, assuming they feel threatened and/or not represented in their parliament. At the very least I find it really, really hard to argue against the Russians being the "good guys" here. That's nonsense. Being russian-speaking gives no rights of any kind. I don't see Germany sending its troops around the globe every time some foreigner who has learned German is imperilled. That's not what's going on here. If the ethnically Russian and/or Russian speaking population in the regions shown above feel threatened by the Ukrainian population and more connected to Russia than to their "own" country who else would be supposed to step in? If anything the most reasonable approach (assuming actual violence against those groups) would be for Russia to step in and allow the people living there a democratic vote to make them choose what they'd like to do. If you want to look at a similar (theoretical example) about Germany it would be about the Banat Swabians or Transylvanian Saxons in Romania. Both are ethnically Germans, speak mostly German dialects and can (mostly afaik) acquire German citizenship easily. If (and that's a big if since most people in those regions left the country over the last 50 years, let's assume there aren't just old people left for a second) for some reason Romania would not have a working government anymore and those people would feel threatened by the Romanian population for whatever reason it would be most reasonable for Germany to step in and say "Yo, don't touch our people!" It obviously is a thin line, but I genuinely see it hard to argue against a line of: "Hey, there are Russian people under attack over there and the 'state' doesn't exist / doesn't give a fuck. We're here to secure the peace and make sure the Russian speaking population can be democratically represented." - It definitely is a LOT tamer than some of the explanations other states have gotten away with when it comes to intervening in another countries affair. I am surprised a German had to look this hard to find an example of Germany coming to protect its oppressed people. Why not go for the gold -- Sudaten Land Germans were oppressed by evil Czechoslovakians so glorious Germany had to step in to protect their rights. After all, they voted that way and everything. I had to google vigorously now to check what you're talking about, since i wasn't sure comparing russia with the 3rd Reich and Hitler proves a point other than "russia is a country brainwashed by propaganda and would applaud every decision, regardless of the level of retardedness". Since that is the reason for alot of things that happened in germany 38-45. Did i miss something? Not going to lie, not the slightest idea what you were trying to say. Our German friend here was explaining to the rest of us how countries feel that they have the right to intervene to protect their own minorities and he was trying to come up with an incredibly tortured example of Germany protecting its minority: so I gave him a more direct example of the actions he was speaking of. An ethnic minority 'felt oppressed', elected an 'anti-Czechoslovakian' leader and then appealed to Germany to safe them. And they did. And again. You're comparing russia to the country that also felt that poland should be german. And france. And austria. And the UK. And quite alot of other countries. Not to mention, forged a reason (lied) to invade poland. Not entirely sure that there is any point to gain if you compare things that nazi-germany did to anything. Point being: nazi-germany back in the day had an agenda anyway. World domination. So to me at least, that's completely void. About that. All of the Russian news outlets I have seen blame Euromaidan snipers for the mass killings. And most Russians (and not only Russians) believe that. Important note: When Ukraine gave up it's nuclear arsenal in 1994, USA, Russia and GB guaranteed it's sovereignty and territorial integrity and vouched to protect it. At the time Ukraine had 3rd largest nuclear arsenal, larger than GB, France and China combined. So according to it's obligations Russia not only can't support unconstitutional separatism, they actually need to take actions against it.
That's actually a really good point. Can it be argued that by supporting a small part to separate (or rather, to ensure it can "choose its direction") you help ensure that the overall state keeps its sovereignty and stability or is that not how it works? I can't think of any similar historic example for comparison.
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On February 28 2014 05:10 r.Evo wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2014 05:03 Cheerio wrote:On February 28 2014 03:05 m4ini wrote:On February 28 2014 03:01 Sub40APM wrote:On February 28 2014 02:57 m4ini wrote:On February 28 2014 02:42 Sub40APM wrote:On February 27 2014 22:24 r.Evo wrote:On February 27 2014 19:43 Ghanburighan wrote:On February 27 2014 19:17 r.Evo wrote:On February 27 2014 18:22 mahrgell wrote:
Sounds like what usually happens with North Korea doing some weird shit and spontaneous US-South Korean trainings.
So boring stuff, but everyone likes to show off a bit and pretends to be supermegaawesome.
Btw:
as it wasnt mentioned: Berkut was dissolved yesterday by the new minister of internal affairs. Well.. they ould have been useful now! If I understand things correctly Russia is making these moves to defend the Russian speaking population of Ukraine, so comparing it to NK/SK might not be a smart move. Correct me if I'm wrong, but if the majority of a certain area is Russian speaking (aka eastern Ukraine) they have all the rights in the world to be protected of the Ukrainian speaking population of the west, assuming they feel threatened and/or not represented in their parliament. At the very least I find it really, really hard to argue against the Russians being the "good guys" here. That's nonsense. Being russian-speaking gives no rights of any kind. I don't see Germany sending its troops around the globe every time some foreigner who has learned German is imperilled. That's not what's going on here. If the ethnically Russian and/or Russian speaking population in the regions shown above feel threatened by the Ukrainian population and more connected to Russia than to their "own" country who else would be supposed to step in? If anything the most reasonable approach (assuming actual violence against those groups) would be for Russia to step in and allow the people living there a democratic vote to make them choose what they'd like to do. If you want to look at a similar (theoretical example) about Germany it would be about the Banat Swabians or Transylvanian Saxons in Romania. Both are ethnically Germans, speak mostly German dialects and can (mostly afaik) acquire German citizenship easily. If (and that's a big if since most people in those regions left the country over the last 50 years, let's assume there aren't just old people left for a second) for some reason Romania would not have a working government anymore and those people would feel threatened by the Romanian population for whatever reason it would be most reasonable for Germany to step in and say "Yo, don't touch our people!" It obviously is a thin line, but I genuinely see it hard to argue against a line of: "Hey, there are Russian people under attack over there and the 'state' doesn't exist / doesn't give a fuck. We're here to secure the peace and make sure the Russian speaking population can be democratically represented." - It definitely is a LOT tamer than some of the explanations other states have gotten away with when it comes to intervening in another countries affair. I am surprised a German had to look this hard to find an example of Germany coming to protect its oppressed people. Why not go for the gold -- Sudaten Land Germans were oppressed by evil Czechoslovakians so glorious Germany had to step in to protect their rights. After all, they voted that way and everything. I had to google vigorously now to check what you're talking about, since i wasn't sure comparing russia with the 3rd Reich and Hitler proves a point other than "russia is a country brainwashed by propaganda and would applaud every decision, regardless of the level of retardedness". Since that is the reason for alot of things that happened in germany 38-45. Did i miss something? Not going to lie, not the slightest idea what you were trying to say. Our German friend here was explaining to the rest of us how countries feel that they have the right to intervene to protect their own minorities and he was trying to come up with an incredibly tortured example of Germany protecting its minority: so I gave him a more direct example of the actions he was speaking of. An ethnic minority 'felt oppressed', elected an 'anti-Czechoslovakian' leader and then appealed to Germany to safe them. And they did. And again. You're comparing russia to the country that also felt that poland should be german. And france. And austria. And the UK. And quite alot of other countries. Not to mention, forged a reason (lied) to invade poland. Not entirely sure that there is any point to gain if you compare things that nazi-germany did to anything. Point being: nazi-germany back in the day had an agenda anyway. World domination. So to me at least, that's completely void. About that. All of the Russian news outlets I have seen blame Euromaidan snipers for the mass killings. And most Russians (and not only Russians) believe that. Important note: When Ukraine gave up it's nuclear arsenal in 1994, USA, Russia and GB guaranteed it's sovereignty and territorial integrity and vouched to protect it. At the time Ukraine had 3rd largest nuclear arsenal, larger than GB, France and China combined. So according to it's obligations Russia not only can't support unconstitutional separatism, they actually need to take actions against it. That's actually a really good point. Can it be argued that by supporting a small part to separate (or rather, to ensure it can "choose its direction") you help ensure that the overall state keeps its sovereignty and stability or is that not how it works? I can't think of any similar historic example for comparison.
No, it can't, because once a nation splits it is no longer singularly sovereign.
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Russian Federation1953 Posts
On February 28 2014 05:06 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:
My dad is close to loosing his job due to recent events, that won't be good, cyvil war might be coming from the south, considering that Kharkov is on the border with Russia, kidna don't know what to expect and what should I be prepairing for... O_o
feel sorry for you and your dad man
but when US wants to bring chaos to some small country it brings it
even if there is only 1 year till president elections they will spill blood and inspire revolution just because they can
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On February 28 2014 03:22 r.Evo wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2014 03:13 Sub40APM wrote:On February 28 2014 03:12 r.Evo wrote:On February 28 2014 02:42 Sub40APM wrote:On February 27 2014 22:24 r.Evo wrote:On February 27 2014 19:43 Ghanburighan wrote:On February 27 2014 19:17 r.Evo wrote:On February 27 2014 18:22 mahrgell wrote:
Sounds like what usually happens with North Korea doing some weird shit and spontaneous US-South Korean trainings.
So boring stuff, but everyone likes to show off a bit and pretends to be supermegaawesome.
Btw:
as it wasnt mentioned: Berkut was dissolved yesterday by the new minister of internal affairs. Well.. they ould have been useful now! If I understand things correctly Russia is making these moves to defend the Russian speaking population of Ukraine, so comparing it to NK/SK might not be a smart move. Correct me if I'm wrong, but if the majority of a certain area is Russian speaking (aka eastern Ukraine) they have all the rights in the world to be protected of the Ukrainian speaking population of the west, assuming they feel threatened and/or not represented in their parliament. At the very least I find it really, really hard to argue against the Russians being the "good guys" here. That's nonsense. Being russian-speaking gives no rights of any kind. I don't see Germany sending its troops around the globe every time some foreigner who has learned German is imperilled. That's not what's going on here. If the ethnically Russian and/or Russian speaking population in the regions shown above feel threatened by the Ukrainian population and more connected to Russia than to their "own" country who else would be supposed to step in? If anything the most reasonable approach (assuming actual violence against those groups) would be for Russia to step in and allow the people living there a democratic vote to make them choose what they'd like to do. If you want to look at a similar (theoretical example) about Germany it would be about the Banat Swabians or Transylvanian Saxons in Romania. Both are ethnically Germans, speak mostly German dialects and can (mostly afaik) acquire German citizenship easily. If (and that's a big if since most people in those regions left the country over the last 50 years, let's assume there aren't just old people left for a second) for some reason Romania would not have a working government anymore and those people would feel threatened by the Romanian population for whatever reason it would be most reasonable for Germany to step in and say "Yo, don't touch our people!" It obviously is a thin line, but I genuinely see it hard to argue against a line of: "Hey, there are Russian people under attack over there and the 'state' doesn't exist / doesn't give a fuck. We're here to secure the peace and make sure the Russian speaking population can be democratically represented." - It definitely is a LOT tamer than some of the explanations other states have gotten away with when it comes to intervening in another countries affair. I am surprised a German had to look this hard to find an example of Germany coming to protect its oppressed people. Why not go for the gold -- Sudaten Land Germans were oppressed by evil Czechoslovakians so glorious Germany had to step in to protect their rights. After all, they voted that way and everything. I'm surprised someone who results to ad hominem forgot that the relevant international community back then (namely France and the UK) completely agreed with the German point of view and no one cared about what Czechoslovakia thought of the whole deal. That's kind of what the Munich Agreement was all about and why the parts were given up pretty much without a fight. Its an ad homniem attack in what way? The situation in Sudatenland does not describe your position? That Germany -- or any country -- has the right to threaten another country to ensure that a minority Germany feels is oppressed can protected? I'm talking about how violent actions against the Russian population of Ukraine would justify a Russian intervention in front of the international community. Besides that, and apart from the whole world domination part afterwards, annexing the Sudentenland was also considered justified by everyone who mattered.
Yeah, and it later was called appeasement and considered unacceptable.
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On February 28 2014 05:12 PaleMan wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2014 05:06 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:
My dad is close to loosing his job due to recent events, that won't be good, cyvil war might be coming from the south, considering that Kharkov is on the border with Russia, kidna don't know what to expect and what should I be prepairing for... O_o
feel sorry for you and your dad man but when US wants to bring chaos to some small country it brings it even if there is only 1 year till president elections they will spill blood and inspire revolution just because they can
This post would be hilarious if it didn't represent actual views. Let the comfort that comes with blaming the US for everything ease you into a 21st century in which actual knowledge simply doesn't matter.
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On February 28 2014 05:12 PaleMan wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2014 05:06 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:
My dad is close to loosing his job due to recent events, that won't be good, cyvil war might be coming from the south, considering that Kharkov is on the border with Russia, kidna don't know what to expect and what should I be prepairing for... O_o
feel sorry for you and your dad man but when US wants to bring chaos to some small country it brings it even if there is only 1 year till president elections they will spill blood and inspire revolution just because they can
I start to wonder if you're just trolling.
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On February 28 2014 05:15 farvacola wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2014 05:12 PaleMan wrote:On February 28 2014 05:06 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:
My dad is close to loosing his job due to recent events, that won't be good, cyvil war might be coming from the south, considering that Kharkov is on the border with Russia, kidna don't know what to expect and what should I be prepairing for... O_o
feel sorry for you and your dad man but when US wants to bring chaos to some small country it brings it even if there is only 1 year till president elections they will spill blood and inspire revolution just because they can This post would be hilarious if it didn't represent actual views. Let the comfort that comes with blaming the US for everything ease you into a 21st century in which actual knowledge simply doesn't matter.
Those fascist far-right uber-nationalists who are running the show (if you believe the zeos of the world), they hate Russia meddling in the Ukraine but America? They're fine with that, obviously.
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On February 28 2014 05:10 r.Evo wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2014 05:03 Cheerio wrote:On February 28 2014 03:05 m4ini wrote:On February 28 2014 03:01 Sub40APM wrote:On February 28 2014 02:57 m4ini wrote:On February 28 2014 02:42 Sub40APM wrote:On February 27 2014 22:24 r.Evo wrote:On February 27 2014 19:43 Ghanburighan wrote:On February 27 2014 19:17 r.Evo wrote:On February 27 2014 18:22 mahrgell wrote:
Sounds like what usually happens with North Korea doing some weird shit and spontaneous US-South Korean trainings.
So boring stuff, but everyone likes to show off a bit and pretends to be supermegaawesome.
Btw:
as it wasnt mentioned: Berkut was dissolved yesterday by the new minister of internal affairs. Well.. they ould have been useful now! If I understand things correctly Russia is making these moves to defend the Russian speaking population of Ukraine, so comparing it to NK/SK might not be a smart move. Correct me if I'm wrong, but if the majority of a certain area is Russian speaking (aka eastern Ukraine) they have all the rights in the world to be protected of the Ukrainian speaking population of the west, assuming they feel threatened and/or not represented in their parliament. At the very least I find it really, really hard to argue against the Russians being the "good guys" here. That's nonsense. Being russian-speaking gives no rights of any kind. I don't see Germany sending its troops around the globe every time some foreigner who has learned German is imperilled. That's not what's going on here. If the ethnically Russian and/or Russian speaking population in the regions shown above feel threatened by the Ukrainian population and more connected to Russia than to their "own" country who else would be supposed to step in? If anything the most reasonable approach (assuming actual violence against those groups) would be for Russia to step in and allow the people living there a democratic vote to make them choose what they'd like to do. If you want to look at a similar (theoretical example) about Germany it would be about the Banat Swabians or Transylvanian Saxons in Romania. Both are ethnically Germans, speak mostly German dialects and can (mostly afaik) acquire German citizenship easily. If (and that's a big if since most people in those regions left the country over the last 50 years, let's assume there aren't just old people left for a second) for some reason Romania would not have a working government anymore and those people would feel threatened by the Romanian population for whatever reason it would be most reasonable for Germany to step in and say "Yo, don't touch our people!" It obviously is a thin line, but I genuinely see it hard to argue against a line of: "Hey, there are Russian people under attack over there and the 'state' doesn't exist / doesn't give a fuck. We're here to secure the peace and make sure the Russian speaking population can be democratically represented." - It definitely is a LOT tamer than some of the explanations other states have gotten away with when it comes to intervening in another countries affair. I am surprised a German had to look this hard to find an example of Germany coming to protect its oppressed people. Why not go for the gold -- Sudaten Land Germans were oppressed by evil Czechoslovakians so glorious Germany had to step in to protect their rights. After all, they voted that way and everything. I had to google vigorously now to check what you're talking about, since i wasn't sure comparing russia with the 3rd Reich and Hitler proves a point other than "russia is a country brainwashed by propaganda and would applaud every decision, regardless of the level of retardedness". Since that is the reason for alot of things that happened in germany 38-45. Did i miss something? Not going to lie, not the slightest idea what you were trying to say. Our German friend here was explaining to the rest of us how countries feel that they have the right to intervene to protect their own minorities and he was trying to come up with an incredibly tortured example of Germany protecting its minority: so I gave him a more direct example of the actions he was speaking of. An ethnic minority 'felt oppressed', elected an 'anti-Czechoslovakian' leader and then appealed to Germany to safe them. And they did. And again. You're comparing russia to the country that also felt that poland should be german. And france. And austria. And the UK. And quite alot of other countries. Not to mention, forged a reason (lied) to invade poland. Not entirely sure that there is any point to gain if you compare things that nazi-germany did to anything. Point being: nazi-germany back in the day had an agenda anyway. World domination. So to me at least, that's completely void. About that. All of the Russian news outlets I have seen blame Euromaidan snipers for the mass killings. And most Russians (and not only Russians) believe that. Important note: When Ukraine gave up it's nuclear arsenal in 1994, USA, Russia and GB guaranteed it's sovereignty and territorial integrity and vouched to protect it. At the time Ukraine had 3rd largest nuclear arsenal, larger than GB, France and China combined. So according to it's obligations Russia not only can't support unconstitutional separatism, they actually need to take actions against it. That's actually a really good point. Can it be argued that by supporting a small part to separate (or rather, to ensure it can "choose its direction") you help ensure that the overall state keeps its sovereignty and stability or is that not how it works? I can't think of any similar historic example for comparison.
Where do you draw the line? Like I asked earlier -- if Russians in Crimea can become independent then why cant the Ukrainians and the Turks who are now minority in Russia become independent?
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On February 28 2014 04:38 Sub40APM wrote:
I know Russian and your interpretation that fascists control Ukraine is wrong. I agree though, normal people dont charge into sniper fire by heavily armed police with orders to shoot to kill. But normally police doesnt have trouble getting support from other police units when they are suppressing just a small minority -- like after football matches or even when there were protests against arrest of Timoshenko. The reason why the Ukrainian Army didnt support Yanukovich and why Berkut was so disorganized was because the vast majority of people on Maindan were normal citizens. So it takes a special kind of soldier to go out and try to beat those people up.
As we know there are many conflict sides. And the opposition is split into Right Sector, УПА army, US supported provocateurs, Bandera followers, Klichko party followers, peaceful members of Батьківщина and many others. Батьківщина members are in Rada with Right Sector "defenders" outside, on Kiev streets and western Ukraine. So yeah, they are not controlling the whole Ukraine but part of it.
The reason why Ukrainian Army didn't support? Yanukovich didn't give any orders to army as he didn't want more violence. But finally he betrayed everybody including his own party. Yanukovich was very corrupt, controlled business and so on, and now he has even worse reputation for betraying Berkut and the country itself.
Berkut was not facing a small minority, the problem is that the armed radical minority took control of part of Ukraine.
On February 28 2014 05:03 Cheerio wrote:
Important note: When Ukraine gave up it's nuclear arsenal in 1994, USA, Russia and GB guaranteed it's sovereignty and territorial integrity and vouched to protect it. At the time Ukraine had 3rd largest nuclear arsenal, larger than GB, France and China combined. So according to it's obligations Russia not only can't support unconstitutional separatism, they actually need to take actions against it.
Btw, it's really an important topic. Ukraine has 4 nuclear stations at the moment with 2 of them on the west. This can become a big threat in arms of radical extremists.
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On February 28 2014 05:15 farvacola wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2014 05:12 PaleMan wrote:On February 28 2014 05:06 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:
My dad is close to loosing his job due to recent events, that won't be good, cyvil war might be coming from the south, considering that Kharkov is on the border with Russia, kidna don't know what to expect and what should I be prepairing for... O_o
feel sorry for you and your dad man but when US wants to bring chaos to some small country it brings it even if there is only 1 year till president elections they will spill blood and inspire revolution just because they can This post would be hilarious if it didn't represent actual views. Let the comfort that comes with blaming the US for everything ease you into a 21st century in which actual knowledge simply doesn't matter.
tbh our revolution goes almost the same way as Serbian, just almost totally equal scenario, which kinda strange for me, but it's not the case. I'm tired of those clashed between East and Russia.
One more thing, I wish I could see how Cheerio gonna explain to my dad why revolution is good and needed to be right now! Just 1 year before elections. Not sure how many teeth Cheerio could loose
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On February 28 2014 04:59 Sokrates wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2014 04:57 DeepElemBlues wrote:So... "i dont care about you" is a valid reason to make stuff up and then attack someone over it. ok lol deb, i was talking about your post history, not a future post you would make. No, you weren't. Talking about some future scenario and what I would do in it is talking about future posts I would make. And my post history doesn't support your claim anyway. So... where did you get your functioning crystal ball? The funny thing about you is that you are basically like zeo but yet you attack everyone that doesnt share your point off view. You are even worse than zeo if i think about it.
Please do not compare me to him.
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On February 28 2014 05:08 m4ini wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2014 05:03 Cheerio wrote:On February 28 2014 03:05 m4ini wrote:On February 28 2014 03:01 Sub40APM wrote:On February 28 2014 02:57 m4ini wrote:On February 28 2014 02:42 Sub40APM wrote:On February 27 2014 22:24 r.Evo wrote:On February 27 2014 19:43 Ghanburighan wrote:On February 27 2014 19:17 r.Evo wrote:On February 27 2014 18:22 mahrgell wrote:
Sounds like what usually happens with North Korea doing some weird shit and spontaneous US-South Korean trainings.
So boring stuff, but everyone likes to show off a bit and pretends to be supermegaawesome.
Btw:
as it wasnt mentioned: Berkut was dissolved yesterday by the new minister of internal affairs. Well.. they ould have been useful now! If I understand things correctly Russia is making these moves to defend the Russian speaking population of Ukraine, so comparing it to NK/SK might not be a smart move. Correct me if I'm wrong, but if the majority of a certain area is Russian speaking (aka eastern Ukraine) they have all the rights in the world to be protected of the Ukrainian speaking population of the west, assuming they feel threatened and/or not represented in their parliament. At the very least I find it really, really hard to argue against the Russians being the "good guys" here. That's nonsense. Being russian-speaking gives no rights of any kind. I don't see Germany sending its troops around the globe every time some foreigner who has learned German is imperilled. That's not what's going on here. If the ethnically Russian and/or Russian speaking population in the regions shown above feel threatened by the Ukrainian population and more connected to Russia than to their "own" country who else would be supposed to step in? If anything the most reasonable approach (assuming actual violence against those groups) would be for Russia to step in and allow the people living there a democratic vote to make them choose what they'd like to do. If you want to look at a similar (theoretical example) about Germany it would be about the Banat Swabians or Transylvanian Saxons in Romania. Both are ethnically Germans, speak mostly German dialects and can (mostly afaik) acquire German citizenship easily. If (and that's a big if since most people in those regions left the country over the last 50 years, let's assume there aren't just old people left for a second) for some reason Romania would not have a working government anymore and those people would feel threatened by the Romanian population for whatever reason it would be most reasonable for Germany to step in and say "Yo, don't touch our people!" It obviously is a thin line, but I genuinely see it hard to argue against a line of: "Hey, there are Russian people under attack over there and the 'state' doesn't exist / doesn't give a fuck. We're here to secure the peace and make sure the Russian speaking population can be democratically represented." - It definitely is a LOT tamer than some of the explanations other states have gotten away with when it comes to intervening in another countries affair. I am surprised a German had to look this hard to find an example of Germany coming to protect its oppressed people. Why not go for the gold -- Sudaten Land Germans were oppressed by evil Czechoslovakians so glorious Germany had to step in to protect their rights. After all, they voted that way and everything. I had to google vigorously now to check what you're talking about, since i wasn't sure comparing russia with the 3rd Reich and Hitler proves a point other than "russia is a country brainwashed by propaganda and would applaud every decision, regardless of the level of retardedness". Since that is the reason for alot of things that happened in germany 38-45. Did i miss something? Not going to lie, not the slightest idea what you were trying to say. Our German friend here was explaining to the rest of us how countries feel that they have the right to intervene to protect their own minorities and he was trying to come up with an incredibly tortured example of Germany protecting its minority: so I gave him a more direct example of the actions he was speaking of. An ethnic minority 'felt oppressed', elected an 'anti-Czechoslovakian' leader and then appealed to Germany to safe them. And they did. And again. You're comparing russia to the country that also felt that poland should be german. And france. And austria. And the UK. And quite alot of other countries. Not to mention, forged a reason (lied) to invade poland. Not entirely sure that there is any point to gain if you compare things that nazi-germany did to anything. Point being: nazi-germany back in the day had an agenda anyway. World domination. So to me at least, that's completely void. About that. All of the Russian news outlets I have seen blame Euromaidan snipers for the mass killings. And most Russians (and not only Russians) believe that. Important note: When Ukraine gave up it's nuclear arsenal in 1994, USA, Russia and GB guaranteed it's sovereignty and territorial integrity and vouched to protect it. At the time Ukraine had 3rd largest nuclear arsenal, larger than GB, France and China combined. So according to it's obligations Russia not only can't support unconstitutional separatism, they actually need to take actions against it. Konrad Adenauer (chancellor of germany after ww2) allegedly said at some point "what do i care about the silly stuff i said yesterday" (Was kuemmert mich mein Geschwaetz von gestern). Guess that goes for every politician, ever, in the entire history. At the time the Germany could not care less about it's destroyed reputation. And the world is very different right now.
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On February 28 2014 05:28 AleXoundOS wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2014 04:38 Sub40APM wrote:
I know Russian and your interpretation that fascists control Ukraine is wrong. I agree though, normal people dont charge into sniper fire by heavily armed police with orders to shoot to kill. But normally police doesnt have trouble getting support from other police units when they are suppressing just a small minority -- like after football matches or even when there were protests against arrest of Timoshenko. The reason why the Ukrainian Army didnt support Yanukovich and why Berkut was so disorganized was because the vast majority of people on Maindan were normal citizens. So it takes a special kind of soldier to go out and try to beat those people up.
As we know there are many conflict sides. And the opposition is split into Right Sector, УПА army, US supported provocateurs
What?
And arent the Bandera followers already covered by the Right Sector at least the UPA army? Dont you see even in your own listing of all components of the protest you list 3 fascist groups that -- even if we look at the last elections in 2012, combined, and as a protest received 10% of the vote...which means they received less votes from Ukrainians than the Communists.
Батьківщина members are in Rada with Right Sector "defenders" outside, on Kiev streets and western Ukraine. So yeah, they are not controlling the whole Ukraine but part of it.
What kind of fascists take over a government because they want (a) democratic elections and (b) join a big organization of democratic states that all have very strong minority protection laws? Have you ever heard of fascists who are so desperate to basically outlaw themselves?
The reason why Ukrainian Army didn't support? Yanukovich didn't give any orders to army as he didn't want more violence.
Did the Russian news not have the information that Chief of Staff of the Ukrainian Army was forced to resign by Yanukovich ? Or that his Deputy resigned in protest? And that the next guy Yanukovich could find to lead the army was the Admiral of the Black Fleet?
But finally he betrayed everybody including his own party. Yanukovich was very corrupt, controlled business and so on, and now he has even worse reputation for betraying Berkut and the country itself.
Yes...so why is Russia pushing so hard to put him back into Presidency? Dont you find that a contradiction?
Berkut was not facing a small minority, the problem is that the armed radical minority took control of part of Ukraine.
Using your 'evidence'...a radical minority armed with..1500 guns. Which means it was only outnumbered by Berkut by 3-1 in light weapons. When we add the fact that Berkut has BMP and the 'radical minority fascists' have...Molotov cocktails.
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On February 28 2014 05:29 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2014 05:15 farvacola wrote:On February 28 2014 05:12 PaleMan wrote:On February 28 2014 05:06 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:
My dad is close to loosing his job due to recent events, that won't be good, cyvil war might be coming from the south, considering that Kharkov is on the border with Russia, kidna don't know what to expect and what should I be prepairing for... O_o
feel sorry for you and your dad man but when US wants to bring chaos to some small country it brings it even if there is only 1 year till president elections they will spill blood and inspire revolution just because they can This post would be hilarious if it didn't represent actual views. Let the comfort that comes with blaming the US for everything ease you into a 21st century in which actual knowledge simply doesn't matter. tbh our revolution goes almost the same way as Serbian, just almost totally equal scenario, which kinda strange for me, but it's not the case. I'm tired of those clashed between East and Russia. One more thing, I wish I could see how Cheerio gonna explain to my dad why revolution is good and needed to be right now! Just 1 year before elections. Not sure how many teeth Cheerio could loose
What if Cheerio's dad lost his job because Yanukovich's friends in the tax police closed it down? Does he get to break your teeth?
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On February 28 2014 05:35 Cheerio wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2014 05:08 m4ini wrote:On February 28 2014 05:03 Cheerio wrote:On February 28 2014 03:05 m4ini wrote:On February 28 2014 03:01 Sub40APM wrote:On February 28 2014 02:57 m4ini wrote:On February 28 2014 02:42 Sub40APM wrote:On February 27 2014 22:24 r.Evo wrote:On February 27 2014 19:43 Ghanburighan wrote:On February 27 2014 19:17 r.Evo wrote:
[quote]
If I understand things correctly Russia is making these moves to defend the Russian speaking population of Ukraine, so comparing it to NK/SK might not be a smart move.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but if the majority of a certain area is Russian speaking (aka eastern Ukraine) they have all the rights in the world to be protected of the Ukrainian speaking population of the west, assuming they feel threatened and/or not represented in their parliament.
At the very least I find it really, really hard to argue against the Russians being the "good guys" here. That's nonsense. Being russian-speaking gives no rights of any kind. I don't see Germany sending its troops around the globe every time some foreigner who has learned German is imperilled. That's not what's going on here. If the ethnically Russian and/or Russian speaking population in the regions shown above feel threatened by the Ukrainian population and more connected to Russia than to their "own" country who else would be supposed to step in? If anything the most reasonable approach (assuming actual violence against those groups) would be for Russia to step in and allow the people living there a democratic vote to make them choose what they'd like to do. If you want to look at a similar (theoretical example) about Germany it would be about the Banat Swabians or Transylvanian Saxons in Romania. Both are ethnically Germans, speak mostly German dialects and can (mostly afaik) acquire German citizenship easily. If (and that's a big if since most people in those regions left the country over the last 50 years, let's assume there aren't just old people left for a second) for some reason Romania would not have a working government anymore and those people would feel threatened by the Romanian population for whatever reason it would be most reasonable for Germany to step in and say "Yo, don't touch our people!" It obviously is a thin line, but I genuinely see it hard to argue against a line of: "Hey, there are Russian people under attack over there and the 'state' doesn't exist / doesn't give a fuck. We're here to secure the peace and make sure the Russian speaking population can be democratically represented." - It definitely is a LOT tamer than some of the explanations other states have gotten away with when it comes to intervening in another countries affair. I am surprised a German had to look this hard to find an example of Germany coming to protect its oppressed people. Why not go for the gold -- Sudaten Land Germans were oppressed by evil Czechoslovakians so glorious Germany had to step in to protect their rights. After all, they voted that way and everything. I had to google vigorously now to check what you're talking about, since i wasn't sure comparing russia with the 3rd Reich and Hitler proves a point other than "russia is a country brainwashed by propaganda and would applaud every decision, regardless of the level of retardedness". Since that is the reason for alot of things that happened in germany 38-45. Did i miss something? Not going to lie, not the slightest idea what you were trying to say. Our German friend here was explaining to the rest of us how countries feel that they have the right to intervene to protect their own minorities and he was trying to come up with an incredibly tortured example of Germany protecting its minority: so I gave him a more direct example of the actions he was speaking of. An ethnic minority 'felt oppressed', elected an 'anti-Czechoslovakian' leader and then appealed to Germany to safe them. And they did. And again. You're comparing russia to the country that also felt that poland should be german. And france. And austria. And the UK. And quite alot of other countries. Not to mention, forged a reason (lied) to invade poland. Not entirely sure that there is any point to gain if you compare things that nazi-germany did to anything. Point being: nazi-germany back in the day had an agenda anyway. World domination. So to me at least, that's completely void. About that. All of the Russian news outlets I have seen blame Euromaidan snipers for the mass killings. And most Russians (and not only Russians) believe that. Important note: When Ukraine gave up it's nuclear arsenal in 1994, USA, Russia and GB guaranteed it's sovereignty and territorial integrity and vouched to protect it. At the time Ukraine had 3rd largest nuclear arsenal, larger than GB, France and China combined. So according to it's obligations Russia not only can't support unconstitutional separatism, they actually need to take actions against it. Konrad Adenauer (chancellor of germany after ww2) allegedly said at some point "what do i care about the silly stuff i said yesterday" (Was kuemmert mich mein Geschwaetz von gestern). Guess that goes for every politician, ever, in the entire history. At the time the Germany could not care less about it's destroyed reputation. And the world is very different right now.
I do not recall russia giving a damn about their reputation, feel free to correct me. All i was saying is, russia will not give a hoot about what they said at some point, if it doesn't suit their goals right now.
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Russian Federation1953 Posts
On February 28 2014 05:29 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2014 05:15 farvacola wrote:On February 28 2014 05:12 PaleMan wrote:On February 28 2014 05:06 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:
My dad is close to loosing his job due to recent events, that won't be good, cyvil war might be coming from the south, considering that Kharkov is on the border with Russia, kidna don't know what to expect and what should I be prepairing for... O_o
feel sorry for you and your dad man but when US wants to bring chaos to some small country it brings it even if there is only 1 year till president elections they will spill blood and inspire revolution just because they can This post would be hilarious if it didn't represent actual views. Let the comfort that comes with blaming the US for everything ease you into a 21st century in which actual knowledge simply doesn't matter. tbh our revolution goes almost the same way as Serbian, just almost totally equal scenario, which kinda strange for me, but it's not the case. I'm tired of those clashed between East and Russia. One more thing, I wish I could see how Cheerio gonna explain to my dad why revolution is good and needed to be right now! Just 1 year before elections. Not sure how many teeth Cheerio could loose
that's why i wrote that i'm sorry
look what happened to Lybia after so called "peaceful protest" inspired by US - they are literally in ruins
now look at Egypt - they were swimming in money from tourists - now everyone is scared to go there - terrorists are taking tourists as hostages etc.
Ukraine will suffer a lot, sad but true
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On February 28 2014 05:37 Sub40APM wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2014 05:29 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:On February 28 2014 05:15 farvacola wrote:On February 28 2014 05:12 PaleMan wrote:On February 28 2014 05:06 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:
My dad is close to loosing his job due to recent events, that won't be good, cyvil war might be coming from the south, considering that Kharkov is on the border with Russia, kidna don't know what to expect and what should I be prepairing for... O_o
feel sorry for you and your dad man but when US wants to bring chaos to some small country it brings it even if there is only 1 year till president elections they will spill blood and inspire revolution just because they can This post would be hilarious if it didn't represent actual views. Let the comfort that comes with blaming the US for everything ease you into a 21st century in which actual knowledge simply doesn't matter. tbh our revolution goes almost the same way as Serbian, just almost totally equal scenario, which kinda strange for me, but it's not the case. I'm tired of those clashed between East and Russia. One more thing, I wish I could see how Cheerio gonna explain to my dad why revolution is good and needed to be right now! Just 1 year before elections. Not sure how many teeth Cheerio could loose What if Cheerio's dad lost his job because Yanukovich's friends in the tax police closed it down? Does he get to break your teeth?
What IF? I'm talking about real things happening, not about what if. By the way, why do u thing that I would prove him something like he does during 80+ pages in this topic?
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On February 28 2014 05:30 zeo wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2014 04:59 Sokrates wrote:On February 28 2014 04:57 DeepElemBlues wrote:So... "i dont care about you" is a valid reason to make stuff up and then attack someone over it. ok lol deb, i was talking about your post history, not a future post you would make. No, you weren't. Talking about some future scenario and what I would do in it is talking about future posts I would make. And my post history doesn't support your claim anyway. So... where did you get your functioning crystal ball? The funny thing about you is that you are basically like zeo but yet you attack everyone that doesnt share your point off view. You are even worse than zeo if i think about it. Please do not compare me to him.
Yeah i m sry, you stay at least calm while he goes on a rampage each time. Maybe putin should pay me now :D.
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EPT
