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Russian Federation1953 Posts
Ukraine turns in post Mubarek Egypt
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On February 25 2014 20:26 Novel wrote:
- Putin's approval rating increased, sadly. We can thank for that Euromaydan and American media's reaction on Sochi. It worked well for the enemy image, Putin trying to create.
a few words about that?
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On February 25 2014 18:49 Ramong wrote: Please don'tBeginning a revenge murder spree on the people responsible for the assault will only make Ukrain look bad in international eyes, while proving Putin right. Forgive and forget
I won't kill anyone, I promise.
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Russian Federation1953 Posts
On February 25 2014 17:03 zatic wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2014 04:51 Sub40APM wrote:http://qz.com/180511/ukraine-unrest-stems-from-two-decades-of-squandered-post-soviet-independence/At purchasing-power parity, Poland’s GDP per capita has almost quadrupled since 1992, according to data from the IMF. Over the same period, Ukraine’s only grew by a bit more than 40%.
Ukraine stands out among the former members of the Eastern Bloc. Since the collapse of the Soviet Union, Ukraine’s GDP per capita has grown by less than 2% per year on average, lagging every other country in the region
Even more galling, perhaps, is the development of a place like Belarus, a Soviet-style dictatorship and stalwart member of the Russian-led Eurasian Union. Although a basket case in many ways, when measured by GDP-per-capita Belarus is now more than twice as rich as Ukraine; the two were on roughly equal economic footing in the mid-1990s. I find the most striking picture about Ukraine is this: ![[image loading]](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/55/Population_of_Ukraine_v.2.PNG/800px-Population_of_Ukraine_v.2.PNG) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Ukraine
yeah bloody russian commies treated Ukraine so bad that it exploded demographically
merciless bastards! 
democratic leaders can't kill Ukraine population fast enough - soviet legacy is too strong
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It was global trend, most countries had a huge natural growth after wwII.
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On February 25 2014 22:09 PaleMan wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2014 17:03 zatic wrote:On February 25 2014 04:51 Sub40APM wrote:http://qz.com/180511/ukraine-unrest-stems-from-two-decades-of-squandered-post-soviet-independence/At purchasing-power parity, Poland’s GDP per capita has almost quadrupled since 1992, according to data from the IMF. Over the same period, Ukraine’s only grew by a bit more than 40%.
Ukraine stands out among the former members of the Eastern Bloc. Since the collapse of the Soviet Union, Ukraine’s GDP per capita has grown by less than 2% per year on average, lagging every other country in the region
Even more galling, perhaps, is the development of a place like Belarus, a Soviet-style dictatorship and stalwart member of the Russian-led Eurasian Union. Although a basket case in many ways, when measured by GDP-per-capita Belarus is now more than twice as rich as Ukraine; the two were on roughly equal economic footing in the mid-1990s. I find the most striking picture about Ukraine is this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Ukraine yeah bloody russian commies treated Ukraine so bad that it exploded demographically merciless bastards! democratic leaders can't kill Ukraine population fast enough - soviet legacy is too strong
Don't be stupid, look up Holodomor 1932-1933 and Stalin's policies. You're only going to be opening up old wounds with your unfortunate attempt at humour.
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On February 25 2014 22:29 Ghanburighan wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2014 22:09 PaleMan wrote:On February 25 2014 17:03 zatic wrote:On February 25 2014 04:51 Sub40APM wrote:http://qz.com/180511/ukraine-unrest-stems-from-two-decades-of-squandered-post-soviet-independence/At purchasing-power parity, Poland’s GDP per capita has almost quadrupled since 1992, according to data from the IMF. Over the same period, Ukraine’s only grew by a bit more than 40%.
Ukraine stands out among the former members of the Eastern Bloc. Since the collapse of the Soviet Union, Ukraine’s GDP per capita has grown by less than 2% per year on average, lagging every other country in the region
Even more galling, perhaps, is the development of a place like Belarus, a Soviet-style dictatorship and stalwart member of the Russian-led Eurasian Union. Although a basket case in many ways, when measured by GDP-per-capita Belarus is now more than twice as rich as Ukraine; the two were on roughly equal economic footing in the mid-1990s. I find the most striking picture about Ukraine is this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Ukraine yeah bloody russian commies treated Ukraine so bad that it exploded demographically merciless bastards! democratic leaders can't kill Ukraine population fast enough - soviet legacy is too strong Don't be stupid, look up Holodomor 1932-1933 and Stalin's policies. You're only going to be opening up old wounds with your unfortunate attempt at humour.
Stalin = Russian
Gold star for historical accuracy.
Or wait for it, Lenin. The guy who was financed and kept safe by the same countries the western half of Ukraine wants to be close buddies with now. The same Lenin who was the first leader to recognize Ukraine as a republic within the Soviet Union, to ever give them legitimate government over themselves. The same Lenin that annexed centuries old Russian land to Ukraine, that Lenin? I'm sure no Russian ever died because of communism, no one was sad in communist Russia? Thats why nationalists in Ukraine hate everybody, right?
+ Show Spoiler +
Just calm down. Building your national identity on hating other countries brings nothing but bad things.
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On February 25 2014 22:34 zeo wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2014 22:29 Ghanburighan wrote:On February 25 2014 22:09 PaleMan wrote:On February 25 2014 17:03 zatic wrote:On February 25 2014 04:51 Sub40APM wrote:http://qz.com/180511/ukraine-unrest-stems-from-two-decades-of-squandered-post-soviet-independence/At purchasing-power parity, Poland’s GDP per capita has almost quadrupled since 1992, according to data from the IMF. Over the same period, Ukraine’s only grew by a bit more than 40%.
Ukraine stands out among the former members of the Eastern Bloc. Since the collapse of the Soviet Union, Ukraine’s GDP per capita has grown by less than 2% per year on average, lagging every other country in the region
Even more galling, perhaps, is the development of a place like Belarus, a Soviet-style dictatorship and stalwart member of the Russian-led Eurasian Union. Although a basket case in many ways, when measured by GDP-per-capita Belarus is now more than twice as rich as Ukraine; the two were on roughly equal economic footing in the mid-1990s. I find the most striking picture about Ukraine is this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Ukraine yeah bloody russian commies treated Ukraine so bad that it exploded demographically merciless bastards! democratic leaders can't kill Ukraine population fast enough - soviet legacy is too strong Don't be stupid, look up Holodomor 1932-1933 and Stalin's policies. You're only going to be opening up old wounds with your unfortunate attempt at humour. Stalin = Russian Gold star for historical accuracy.
Oh, you are so clever, aren't you?
If you know anything about Stalinist policy, it generally favored the Russian people much more than the rest of the Soviet Union at the expense of Ukraine in particular. Also, communism is a word that is often associated with nostalgia for Russia or Russian minority politics, such as the Communist Party of Ukraine.
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Russian Federation1401 Posts
I am no communist and I am far from being Russian. I was born in Kharkov and for me, the statue of Lenin is a symbol of the city. I will cry if they tear it down
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Russian Federation1953 Posts
On February 25 2014 22:43 Shiragaku wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2014 22:34 zeo wrote:On February 25 2014 22:29 Ghanburighan wrote:On February 25 2014 22:09 PaleMan wrote:On February 25 2014 17:03 zatic wrote:On February 25 2014 04:51 Sub40APM wrote:http://qz.com/180511/ukraine-unrest-stems-from-two-decades-of-squandered-post-soviet-independence/At purchasing-power parity, Poland’s GDP per capita has almost quadrupled since 1992, according to data from the IMF. Over the same period, Ukraine’s only grew by a bit more than 40%.
Ukraine stands out among the former members of the Eastern Bloc. Since the collapse of the Soviet Union, Ukraine’s GDP per capita has grown by less than 2% per year on average, lagging every other country in the region
Even more galling, perhaps, is the development of a place like Belarus, a Soviet-style dictatorship and stalwart member of the Russian-led Eurasian Union. Although a basket case in many ways, when measured by GDP-per-capita Belarus is now more than twice as rich as Ukraine; the two were on roughly equal economic footing in the mid-1990s. I find the most striking picture about Ukraine is this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Ukraine yeah bloody russian commies treated Ukraine so bad that it exploded demographically merciless bastards! democratic leaders can't kill Ukraine population fast enough - soviet legacy is too strong Don't be stupid, look up Holodomor 1932-1933 and Stalin's policies. You're only going to be opening up old wounds with your unfortunate attempt at humour. Stalin = Russian Gold star for historical accuracy. Oh, you are so clever, aren't you? If you know anything about Stalinist policy, it generally favored the Russian people much more than the rest of the Soviet Union at the expense of Ukraine in particular. Also, communism is a word that is often associated with nostalgia for Russia or Russian minority politics, such as the Communist Party of Ukraine.
another bright mind here
actually everything in Soviet Union was built at the expense of Russian people
all minorities have extra rights vs russians
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Communism and Soviet Union as flagman of this regime have had an absolutely destructive effect to every country they touched.In financial, moral and any other category you can think of. No Lenin monuments should exist anywhere.
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Russian Federation32 Posts
On February 25 2014 21:25 Cheerio wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2014 20:26 Novel wrote:
- Putin's approval rating increased, sadly. We can thank for that Euromaydan and American media's reaction on Sochi. It worked well for the enemy image, Putin trying to create. a few words about that?
I would really like not to dig up all the examples. 5 days of any week I'm spending about an hour to quickly look through new media. Fot most parts I check out newsfeed from business media (Russian - RBC, International - Reuters) and translated foreign press (inosmi.ru - daily translations, opinion free, but comments section is quite disgusting).
About 2 weeks before Olympics American media started to rain shit on Sochi. Starting from normal reports about living problems athletes have encountered (although really exaggerated and quoting same few examples), continuing to sarcastic reports from Sochi (like one journalist who drove into some village near Sochi and commented about vomiting from quality of food there) and ending with blaming Russia for not showing Holodomor and Gulag in the Opening ceremony.
The thing is - American media was responsible for like 95% of such articles.
And they did Putin's work for him. Of course it hasn't been shown on national TV (Because our Olympics supposed to be beyond any critics, according to our goverment stance). But it was discussed in russian social networks (mainly - vkontakte) and between young and educated population. So, american media reached to population that usually don't watch TV and unreachable for usual Putin's propoganda.
As I said I don't want to search through articles that I read. But this one I had open in my notebook, which I usually do not use that much. It basically review of some things I just said.
http://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/shooting-at-sochi-to-hit-syria/ -
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I wish some outside influence would come to my country and help us overthrow our corrupt government and help us not elect again the last even more corrupt government...
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On February 25 2014 22:49 PaleMan wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2014 22:43 Shiragaku wrote:On February 25 2014 22:34 zeo wrote:On February 25 2014 22:29 Ghanburighan wrote:On February 25 2014 22:09 PaleMan wrote:On February 25 2014 17:03 zatic wrote:On February 25 2014 04:51 Sub40APM wrote:http://qz.com/180511/ukraine-unrest-stems-from-two-decades-of-squandered-post-soviet-independence/At purchasing-power parity, Poland’s GDP per capita has almost quadrupled since 1992, according to data from the IMF. Over the same period, Ukraine’s only grew by a bit more than 40%.
Ukraine stands out among the former members of the Eastern Bloc. Since the collapse of the Soviet Union, Ukraine’s GDP per capita has grown by less than 2% per year on average, lagging every other country in the region
Even more galling, perhaps, is the development of a place like Belarus, a Soviet-style dictatorship and stalwart member of the Russian-led Eurasian Union. Although a basket case in many ways, when measured by GDP-per-capita Belarus is now more than twice as rich as Ukraine; the two were on roughly equal economic footing in the mid-1990s. I find the most striking picture about Ukraine is this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Ukraine yeah bloody russian commies treated Ukraine so bad that it exploded demographically merciless bastards! democratic leaders can't kill Ukraine population fast enough - soviet legacy is too strong Don't be stupid, look up Holodomor 1932-1933 and Stalin's policies. You're only going to be opening up old wounds with your unfortunate attempt at humour. Stalin = Russian Gold star for historical accuracy. Oh, you are so clever, aren't you? If you know anything about Stalinist policy, it generally favored the Russian people much more than the rest of the Soviet Union at the expense of Ukraine in particular. Also, communism is a word that is often associated with nostalgia for Russia or Russian minority politics, such as the Communist Party of Ukraine. another bright mind here actually everything in Soviet Union was built at the expense of Russian people all minorities have extra rights vs russians
yeah, Crimean Tatars being the great example.
+ Show Spoiler +Sürgünlik (Crimean Tatar for "exile") refers to the state-organized forcible deportation of the Crimean Tatars in 1944 to the Uzbek SSR and other parts of the Soviet Union. A symbol of Sürgünlik is a steam engine.
In 1944 under the false pretext of alleged mass collaboration of the Crimean Tatars with the Nazis during the Nazi occupation of the Crimea in 1941-1944. As a consequence, the Soviet government decided the total eviction of the Crimean Tatar people from the Crimea on orders of Joseph Stalin and Lavrentiy Beria.
The deportation began on 18 May 1944 in all Crimean inhabited localities.[3] More than 32,000 NKVD troops participated in this action. The forced deportees were given only 30 minutes to gather personal belongings, after which they were loaded onto cattle trains and moved out of Crimea.[4] 193,865 Crimean Tatars were deported, 151,136 of them to Uzbek SSR, 8,597 to Mari ASSR, 4,286 to Kazakh SSR, the rest 29,846 to the various oblasts of Russian SFSR. At the same moment, most of the Crimean Tatar men who were fighting in the ranks of the Red Army were demobilized and sent into forced labor camps in Siberia and in the Ural mountain region.[5]
The deportation was poorly planned and executed, local authorities in the destination areas were not properly informed about the scale of the matter and did not receive enough resources to accommodate the deportees. The lack of accommodation and food, the failure to adapt to new climatic conditions and the rapid spread of diseases had a heavy demographic impact during the first years of exile.[6]
From May to November 10,105 Crimean Tatars died of starvation in Uzbekistan (7% of deported to Uzbek SSR) . Nearly 30,000 (20%) died in exile during the year and a half by the NKVD data.Due to hunger, thirst and disease, around 45% of the total population died in the process of deportation.[7] According to Soviet dissident information, many Crimean Tatars were made to work in the large-scale projects conducted by the Soviet GULAG system.[8] The Crimean Tatar activists tried to evaluate the demographic consequences of the deportation. They carried out a census in all the scattered Tatar communities in the middle of the 1960s. The results of this inquiry show that 109,956 (46.2%) Crimean Tatars of the 238,500 deportees died between July 1, 1944 and January 1, 1947.[9]
Crimean activists call for the recognition of the Sürgünlik as genocide.[10]
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United States5079 Posts
On February 25 2014 22:49 PaleMan wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2014 22:43 Shiragaku wrote:On February 25 2014 22:34 zeo wrote:On February 25 2014 22:29 Ghanburighan wrote:On February 25 2014 22:09 PaleMan wrote:On February 25 2014 17:03 zatic wrote:On February 25 2014 04:51 Sub40APM wrote:http://qz.com/180511/ukraine-unrest-stems-from-two-decades-of-squandered-post-soviet-independence/At purchasing-power parity, Poland’s GDP per capita has almost quadrupled since 1992, according to data from the IMF. Over the same period, Ukraine’s only grew by a bit more than 40%.
Ukraine stands out among the former members of the Eastern Bloc. Since the collapse of the Soviet Union, Ukraine’s GDP per capita has grown by less than 2% per year on average, lagging every other country in the region
Even more galling, perhaps, is the development of a place like Belarus, a Soviet-style dictatorship and stalwart member of the Russian-led Eurasian Union. Although a basket case in many ways, when measured by GDP-per-capita Belarus is now more than twice as rich as Ukraine; the two were on roughly equal economic footing in the mid-1990s. I find the most striking picture about Ukraine is this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Ukraine yeah bloody russian commies treated Ukraine so bad that it exploded demographically merciless bastards! democratic leaders can't kill Ukraine population fast enough - soviet legacy is too strong Don't be stupid, look up Holodomor 1932-1933 and Stalin's policies. You're only going to be opening up old wounds with your unfortunate attempt at humour. Stalin = Russian Gold star for historical accuracy. Oh, you are so clever, aren't you? If you know anything about Stalinist policy, it generally favored the Russian people much more than the rest of the Soviet Union at the expense of Ukraine in particular. Also, communism is a word that is often associated with nostalgia for Russia or Russian minority politics, such as the Communist Party of Ukraine. another bright mind here actually everything in Soviet Union was built at the expense of Russian people all minorities have extra rights vs russians
Not true, but not surprising that you actually believe that garbage. Just as an example, during the Great Purge, nearly the entire party leadership of the Ukrainian SSR was murdered or arrested and replaced by Russians. For another, in the early 30s they would have one train leaving Kharkov full of grain so the Russians in Smolensk or wherever wouldn't starve, the next train behind it would have its cars literally filled to the brim with the dead bodies of starved Ukrainians who died so those Russians could eat.
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On February 25 2014 18:49 Ramong wrote: Please don't Beginning a revenge murder spree on the people responsible for the assault will only make Ukrain look bad in international eyes, while proving Putin right. Forgive and forget
Whats wrong with pursuing people who broke Ukrainian laws? If you are a cop ordered to shoot to kill unarmed protesters the constitution says you dont do that. Which is why, for example, the army didnt bring up its tanks into Kiev.
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On February 25 2014 13:08 Cheerio wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2014 08:58 Sub40APM wrote:On February 25 2014 07:11 lord_nibbler wrote:On February 25 2014 06:56 Sub40APM wrote:On February 25 2014 06:22 Cheerio wrote:On February 25 2014 04:08 Sub40APM wrote:On February 24 2014 14:35 DeepElemBlues wrote:On February 24 2014 14:09 Sub40APM wrote:On February 24 2014 12:17 Cheerio wrote:On February 23 2014 14:37 Sub40APM wrote:
[quote]
so? you have antisemite murderer on a bunch of your hrivna. somehow I missed it. What are you talking about? Hmelnitsky, great hero ukrainian nationalism was also a massive antisemite whose troops committed mass crimes against Jews. If we're going to disqualify historical national heroes because they were also bloodthirsty, bigots or both we're gonna have about zero national heroes who were born before 1950 for any country you can name. I am not, I am just making a point that Cheerio's obsession with taking down Lenin statutes is stupid. That guy is as part of Ukrainian history as Hmelinstky is. And they both have blood on their hands. The only difference is taking down Lenin statutes also pointlessly spreads fear among Russian speakers. If this is going personal, my position is the following: I am offended by the statue of Lenin in the central square of my town due to historic reasons. I recognise that the statue has historic value. There are hundreds of thousands of people like me. If the local authorities want to preserve it, please demote it and place somewhere else, where it would not be "glorifying" somebody I consider a mass murderer of Ukrainian people. People have been waiting for it's demotion for 23 years now. If you do not, I will do my best to bring it down when the right opportunity arrises. But you are not offended at having an antisemitic mass murderer on your hrivyna and with statutes scattered around the country? I am sure there are many Jewish-Ukrainians who wish those removed too, obviously for historical reasons -- including Hmelnitsky's pogrom against them -- there are not hundreds of thousands of Ukrainian Jews on the streets in present moment to start tearing down his statutes and needlessly provoking other Ukrainians. But you seem to say that if there were enough of them to do it and they were fired enough up it would be okay. I am curious, is this Lenin statue thing actually a real topic in the Ukraine right now or are you only arguing it here? Because it looks to me like a typical fox news distraction topic. Totally unimportant, especially given all the other stuff that is happening. So far, I am not convinced, that this 'revolution' will not play out like Egypt's... It feeds into Russian propaganda against the revolution and it drives 0 actual benefit to the revolution, except I guess Cheerio feels better about it after 23 years of bravely dealing with it. In a situation where political capital is pretty important -- to me -- it seems like a huge waste of it that lets young guys from the West feel like they are giving Putin the ole' middle finger but in reality given Putin another video clip they can show in the East and in Russia to say "SEe, FASCIST TERRORISTS!" Yeah, clearly Putin cares so much about uploading 100th video of Lenin going down with a "those evil fascists" comment. After Lenins started going down the propaganda damage was already done. It doesn't really matter now if there are 10, or 100 of them for somebody who's on the outside of the events (it may actually be viewed as a right thing to do since it's on such a large scale) , but it does matter for people still having Lenins on their streets. And those are not Westerners doing that. They brought down theirs years ago and probably helped with the one in Kyiv. It's mostly Central Ukraine now. Are you just willfully not reading this thread? Obviously Putin doesnt care, but young men like you who are tearing them down instead of doing something constructive think he does. The people who care are either your fellow citizens in the East or Russians who can be distracted by Putin from the 51 billion dollars of their tax money he wasted while they dont have basic services and corruption is reaching historical heights.
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United States5079 Posts
On February 26 2014 04:24 Sub40APM wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2014 13:08 Cheerio wrote:On February 25 2014 08:58 Sub40APM wrote:On February 25 2014 07:11 lord_nibbler wrote:On February 25 2014 06:56 Sub40APM wrote:On February 25 2014 06:22 Cheerio wrote:On February 25 2014 04:08 Sub40APM wrote:On February 24 2014 14:35 DeepElemBlues wrote:On February 24 2014 14:09 Sub40APM wrote:On February 24 2014 12:17 Cheerio wrote:
[quote]
somehow I missed it. What are you talking about? Hmelnitsky, great hero ukrainian nationalism was also a massive antisemite whose troops committed mass crimes against Jews. If we're going to disqualify historical national heroes because they were also bloodthirsty, bigots or both we're gonna have about zero national heroes who were born before 1950 for any country you can name. I am not, I am just making a point that Cheerio's obsession with taking down Lenin statutes is stupid. That guy is as part of Ukrainian history as Hmelinstky is. And they both have blood on their hands. The only difference is taking down Lenin statutes also pointlessly spreads fear among Russian speakers. If this is going personal, my position is the following: I am offended by the statue of Lenin in the central square of my town due to historic reasons. I recognise that the statue has historic value. There are hundreds of thousands of people like me. If the local authorities want to preserve it, please demote it and place somewhere else, where it would not be "glorifying" somebody I consider a mass murderer of Ukrainian people. People have been waiting for it's demotion for 23 years now. If you do not, I will do my best to bring it down when the right opportunity arrises. But you are not offended at having an antisemitic mass murderer on your hrivyna and with statutes scattered around the country? I am sure there are many Jewish-Ukrainians who wish those removed too, obviously for historical reasons -- including Hmelnitsky's pogrom against them -- there are not hundreds of thousands of Ukrainian Jews on the streets in present moment to start tearing down his statutes and needlessly provoking other Ukrainians. But you seem to say that if there were enough of them to do it and they were fired enough up it would be okay. I am curious, is this Lenin statue thing actually a real topic in the Ukraine right now or are you only arguing it here? Because it looks to me like a typical fox news distraction topic. Totally unimportant, especially given all the other stuff that is happening. So far, I am not convinced, that this 'revolution' will not play out like Egypt's... It feeds into Russian propaganda against the revolution and it drives 0 actual benefit to the revolution, except I guess Cheerio feels better about it after 23 years of bravely dealing with it. In a situation where political capital is pretty important -- to me -- it seems like a huge waste of it that lets young guys from the West feel like they are giving Putin the ole' middle finger but in reality given Putin another video clip they can show in the East and in Russia to say "SEe, FASCIST TERRORISTS!" Yeah, clearly Putin cares so much about uploading 100th video of Lenin going down with a "those evil fascists" comment. After Lenins started going down the propaganda damage was already done. It doesn't really matter now if there are 10, or 100 of them for somebody who's on the outside of the events (it may actually be viewed as a right thing to do since it's on such a large scale) , but it does matter for people still having Lenins on their streets. And those are not Westerners doing that. They brought down theirs years ago and probably helped with the one in Kyiv. It's mostly Central Ukraine now. Are you just willfully not reading this thread? Obviously Putin doesnt care, but young men like you who are tearing them down instead of doing something constructive think he does. The people who care are either your fellow citizens in the East or Russians who can be distracted by Putin from the 51 billion dollars of their tax money he wasted while they dont have basic services and corruption is reaching historical heights.
I don't understand your fixation with these statues, or how there isn't anything constructive in tearing them down. I guarantee you Putin would prefer those statues remained untouched, that would be an indication of lesser anti-Russian sentiment and Putin badly needs the hate for Russia in western Ukraine to die down. Putin understands symbols and their power and what it means when they are discarded. You do not seem to. Tearing down the statues is a very public and powerful declaration that they want to be done with Russia. Shutting down schools that are too pro-Russian or something would not be constructive. Tearing down statues that remind you every time you look at them of your country's subjugation and piss you off is.
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I guess this thread is done. There is a number of unresolved issues but those should probably be discussed in some kind of "Ukraine post Yanukovich" thread.
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Russian Federation32 Posts
On February 26 2014 04:22 DeepElemBlues wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2014 22:49 PaleMan wrote:On February 25 2014 22:43 Shiragaku wrote:On February 25 2014 22:34 zeo wrote:On February 25 2014 22:29 Ghanburighan wrote:On February 25 2014 22:09 PaleMan wrote:On February 25 2014 17:03 zatic wrote:On February 25 2014 04:51 Sub40APM wrote:http://qz.com/180511/ukraine-unrest-stems-from-two-decades-of-squandered-post-soviet-independence/At purchasing-power parity, Poland’s GDP per capita has almost quadrupled since 1992, according to data from the IMF. Over the same period, Ukraine’s only grew by a bit more than 40%.
Ukraine stands out among the former members of the Eastern Bloc. Since the collapse of the Soviet Union, Ukraine’s GDP per capita has grown by less than 2% per year on average, lagging every other country in the region
Even more galling, perhaps, is the development of a place like Belarus, a Soviet-style dictatorship and stalwart member of the Russian-led Eurasian Union. Although a basket case in many ways, when measured by GDP-per-capita Belarus is now more than twice as rich as Ukraine; the two were on roughly equal economic footing in the mid-1990s. I find the most striking picture about Ukraine is this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Ukraine yeah bloody russian commies treated Ukraine so bad that it exploded demographically merciless bastards! democratic leaders can't kill Ukraine population fast enough - soviet legacy is too strong Don't be stupid, look up Holodomor 1932-1933 and Stalin's policies. You're only going to be opening up old wounds with your unfortunate attempt at humour. Stalin = Russian Gold star for historical accuracy. Oh, you are so clever, aren't you? If you know anything about Stalinist policy, it generally favored the Russian people much more than the rest of the Soviet Union at the expense of Ukraine in particular. Also, communism is a word that is often associated with nostalgia for Russia or Russian minority politics, such as the Communist Party of Ukraine. another bright mind here actually everything in Soviet Union was built at the expense of Russian people all minorities have extra rights vs russians Not true, but not surprising that you actually believe that garbage. Just as an example, during the Great Purge, nearly the entire party leadership of the Ukrainian SSR was murdered or arrested and replaced by Russians. For another, in the early 30s they would have one train leaving Kharkov full of grain so the Russians in Smolensk or wherever wouldn't starve, the next train behind it would have its cars literally filled to the brim with the dead bodies of starved Ukrainians who died so those Russians could eat.
1. Great Purge wasn't targeting Ukranian SSR and it wasn't about any nation in specific.
2. Please, do not paint us bullshit pictures from your imagination (About trains and "starved Ukrainians who died so those Russians could eat"). It is really sensible stuff. I'm actually kinda pissed right now.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/5sjCCz1.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://1-ps.googleusercontent.com/x/www.pravda.com.ua/img.pravda.com/images/doc/d/6/d631419-11.jpg.pagespeed.ce.Sn9G3XLJqq.jpg)
