On February 26 2014 04:57 Cheerio wrote: I guess this thread is done. There is a number of unresolved issues but those should probably be discussed in some kind of "Ukraine post Yanukovich" thread.
Are you serious? There is a junta in place in Kiev that barely controls the center of the city with some provinces to the west, let alone the rest of the country.
Obviously the people tearing down statues of Mikhail Kutuzov (who died 200 years ago), as well as the people drawing nazi symbols on torn down statues of anti-fascist soldiers with barely any form of condemnation ether from the junta in Kiev or the people in western Ukraine, believe Maidan is still going on.
At purchasing-power parity, Poland’s GDP per capita has almost quadrupled since 1992, according to data from the IMF. Over the same period, Ukraine’s only grew by a bit more than 40%. Ukraine stands out among the former members of the Eastern Bloc. Since the collapse of the Soviet Union, Ukraine’s GDP per capita has grown by less than 2% per year on average, lagging every other country in the region Even more galling, perhaps, is the development of a place like Belarus, a Soviet-style dictatorship and stalwart member of the Russian-led Eurasian Union. Although a basket case in many ways, when measured by GDP-per-capita Belarus is now more than twice as rich as Ukraine; the two were on roughly equal economic footing in the mid-1990s.
I find the most striking picture about Ukraine is this:
yeah bloody russian commies treated Ukraine so bad that it exploded demographically merciless bastards!
democratic leaders can't kill Ukraine population fast enough - soviet legacy is too strong
Don't be stupid, look up Holodomor 1932-1933 and Stalin's policies. You're only going to be opening up old wounds with your unfortunate attempt at humour.
Stalin = Russian Gold star for historical accuracy.
Oh, you are so clever, aren't you? If you know anything about Stalinist policy, it generally favored the Russian people much more than the rest of the Soviet Union at the expense of Ukraine in particular. Also, communism is a word that is often associated with nostalgia for Russia or Russian minority politics, such as the Communist Party of Ukraine.
another bright mind here
actually everything in Soviet Union was built at the expense of Russian people all minorities have extra rights vs russians
Not true, but not surprising that you actually believe that garbage. Just as an example, during the Great Purge, nearly the entire party leadership of the Ukrainian SSR was murdered or arrested and replaced by Russians. For another, in the early 30s they would have one train leaving Kharkov full of grain so the Russians in Smolensk or wherever wouldn't starve, the next train behind it would have its cars literally filled to the brim with the dead bodies of starved Ukrainians who died so those Russians could eat.
1. Great Purge wasn't targeting Ukranian SSR and it wasn't about any nation in specific. 2. Please, do not paint us bullshit pictures from your imagination (About trains and "starved Ukrainians who died so those Russians could eat"). It is really sensible stuff. I'm actually kinda pissed right now.
1. You're an ignoramus. The Great Purge targeted the Ukrainian SSR as much as it did every other constituent "Republic" of the Soviet Union and the purges in the Ukraine were some of the harshest and most comprehensive. I wish I still had my copy of Taubman's biography of Kruschev because it provides the numbers, stuff like when Kruschev returned to the Ukraine after the Purge he asked the NKVD to check the names on a list of Komosomol leaders because he wanted to rebuild the Komosomol (Communist Youth League), the list had something like 67 names on it. 65 had been killed or sent off to the gulag with "no further information available about them at this time." 2. I'm glad you're pissed off, you're an ignorant liar. Here is a quote from Kruschev's memoirs:
“Mikoyan told me that Comrade Demchenko, who was then first secretary of the Kiev Regional Committee, once came to see him in Moscow. Here’s what Demchenko said: ‘Anastas Ivanovich, does Comrade Stalin – for that matter, does anyone in the Politburo – know what’s happening in Ukraine? Well, if not, I’ll give you some idea. A train recently pulled into Kiev loaded with the corpses of people who had starved to death. It picked up corpses all the way from Poltava to Kiev…’”
And millions of Ukrainians did starve so Russians could eat, it's well-documented. It's also well-documented that Ukrainians starved so Stalin could sell their grain to the West to get capital for industrialization. It's also well-documented that the NKVD would load hundreds and thousands of swollen, dying Ukrainians onto trains and then dump them well outside of the towns so they could die in ditches and fields out of sight, then bury them in mass graves there or put their bodies back on the trains to bury in a mass grave somewhere else.
I leave you with this documentary about the Holodomor so maybe your head will come out of your butt.
I hope that the US does some nation-building in Ukraine just as a big FU to Putin. It shouldn't cost that much -- maybe $20-30 billion to turn Ukraine into a western ally.
On February 26 2014 04:57 Cheerio wrote: I guess this thread is done. There is a number of unresolved issues but those should probably be discussed in some kind of "Ukraine post Yanukovich" thread.
Are you serious? There is a junta in place in Kiev that barely controls the center of the city with some provinces to the west, let alone the rest of the country. .
Yes I am. Yanukovich is not coming back, his government has been completely deposed. There would be some conflicts over Crimea, and people will keep standing on Maidan, while keeping an eye on the new authorities, but that would be another story.
On February 24 2014 14:09 Sub40APM wrote: [quote] Hmelnitsky, great hero ukrainian nationalism was also a massive antisemite whose troops committed mass crimes against Jews.
If we're going to disqualify historical national heroes because they were also bloodthirsty, bigots or both we're gonna have about zero national heroes who were born before 1950 for any country you can name.
I am not, I am just making a point that Cheerio's obsession with taking down Lenin statutes is stupid. That guy is as part of Ukrainian history as Hmelinstky is. And they both have blood on their hands. The only difference is taking down Lenin statutes also pointlessly spreads fear among Russian speakers.
If this is going personal, my position is the following: I am offended by the statue of Lenin in the central square of my town due to historic reasons. I recognise that the statue has historic value. There are hundreds of thousands of people like me. If the local authorities want to preserve it, please demote it and place somewhere else, where it would not be "glorifying" somebody I consider a mass murderer of Ukrainian people. People have been waiting for it's demotion for 23 years now. If you do not, I will do my best to bring it down when the right opportunity arrises.
But you are not offended at having an antisemitic mass murderer on your hrivyna and with statutes scattered around the country? I am sure there are many Jewish-Ukrainians who wish those removed too, obviously for historical reasons -- including Hmelnitsky's pogrom against them -- there are not hundreds of thousands of Ukrainian Jews on the streets in present moment to start tearing down his statutes and needlessly provoking other Ukrainians. But you seem to say that if there were enough of them to do it and they were fired enough up it would be okay.
I am curious, is this Lenin statue thing actually a real topic in the Ukraine right now or are you only arguing it here? Because it looks to me like a typical fox news distraction topic. Totally unimportant, especially given all the other stuff that is happening.
So far, I am not convinced, that this 'revolution' will not play out like Egypt's...
It feeds into Russian propaganda against the revolution and it drives 0 actual benefit to the revolution, except I guess Cheerio feels better about it after 23 years of bravely dealing with it. In a situation where political capital is pretty important -- to me -- it seems like a huge waste of it that lets young guys from the West feel like they are giving Putin the ole' middle finger but in reality given Putin another video clip they can show in the East and in Russia to say "SEe, FASCIST TERRORISTS!"
Yeah, clearly Putin cares so much about uploading 100th video of Lenin going down with a "those evil fascists" comment. After Lenins started going down the propaganda damage was already done. It doesn't really matter now if there are 10, or 100 of them for somebody who's on the outside of the events (it may actually be viewed as a right thing to do since it's on such a large scale) , but it does matter for people still having Lenins on their streets. And those are not Westerners doing that. They brought down theirs years ago and probably helped with the one in Kyiv. It's mostly Central Ukraine now.
Are you just willfully not reading this thread? Obviously Putin doesnt care, but young men like you who are tearing them down instead of doing something constructive think he does. The people who care are either your fellow citizens in the East or Russians who can be distracted by Putin from the 51 billion dollars of their tax money he wasted while they dont have basic services and corruption is reaching historical heights.
I don't understand your fixation with these statues, or how there isn't anything constructive in tearing them down. I guarantee you Putin would prefer those statues remained untouched, that would be an indication of lesser anti-Russian sentiment and Putin badly needs the hate for Russia in western Ukraine to die down. Putin understands symbols and their power and what it means when they are discarded. You do not seem to. Tearing down the statues is a very public and powerful declaration that they want to be done with Russia. Shutting down schools that are too pro-Russian or something would not be constructive. Tearing down statues that remind you every time you look at them of your country's subjugation and piss you off is.
The way that the Federal government in the US went around tearing down statutes of Southern generals in the South right? I dont get waht you dont get. Some people, who are a minority but a large one, view these statutes as a positive representation of the history just like Cheerio views the presence of a genocidal antisemite on his currency as a positive because the guy also fought for an independent Ukraine against Polish occupiers. Going around tearing them down will have the exact same benefit as forcing Georgia and South Carolina to change their flags from their pro-Traitor flags to a non offensive one. It will just piss of the local minority and benefit the average American minimally.
On February 26 2014 04:57 Cheerio wrote: I guess this thread is done. There is a number of unresolved issues but those should probably be discussed in some kind of "Ukraine post Yanukovich" thread.
Thank you for the thread, I'm sorry it's getting filled with nonsense now, but it was a very useful hub of information throughout the crisis.
On February 24 2014 14:35 DeepElemBlues wrote: [quote]
If we're going to disqualify historical national heroes because they were also bloodthirsty, bigots or both we're gonna have about zero national heroes who were born before 1950 for any country you can name.
I am not, I am just making a point that Cheerio's obsession with taking down Lenin statutes is stupid. That guy is as part of Ukrainian history as Hmelinstky is. And they both have blood on their hands. The only difference is taking down Lenin statutes also pointlessly spreads fear among Russian speakers.
If this is going personal, my position is the following: I am offended by the statue of Lenin in the central square of my town due to historic reasons. I recognise that the statue has historic value. There are hundreds of thousands of people like me. If the local authorities want to preserve it, please demote it and place somewhere else, where it would not be "glorifying" somebody I consider a mass murderer of Ukrainian people. People have been waiting for it's demotion for 23 years now. If you do not, I will do my best to bring it down when the right opportunity arrises.
But you are not offended at having an antisemitic mass murderer on your hrivyna and with statutes scattered around the country? I am sure there are many Jewish-Ukrainians who wish those removed too, obviously for historical reasons -- including Hmelnitsky's pogrom against them -- there are not hundreds of thousands of Ukrainian Jews on the streets in present moment to start tearing down his statutes and needlessly provoking other Ukrainians. But you seem to say that if there were enough of them to do it and they were fired enough up it would be okay.
I am curious, is this Lenin statue thing actually a real topic in the Ukraine right now or are you only arguing it here? Because it looks to me like a typical fox news distraction topic. Totally unimportant, especially given all the other stuff that is happening.
So far, I am not convinced, that this 'revolution' will not play out like Egypt's...
It feeds into Russian propaganda against the revolution and it drives 0 actual benefit to the revolution, except I guess Cheerio feels better about it after 23 years of bravely dealing with it. In a situation where political capital is pretty important -- to me -- it seems like a huge waste of it that lets young guys from the West feel like they are giving Putin the ole' middle finger but in reality given Putin another video clip they can show in the East and in Russia to say "SEe, FASCIST TERRORISTS!"
Yeah, clearly Putin cares so much about uploading 100th video of Lenin going down with a "those evil fascists" comment. After Lenins started going down the propaganda damage was already done. It doesn't really matter now if there are 10, or 100 of them for somebody who's on the outside of the events (it may actually be viewed as a right thing to do since it's on such a large scale) , but it does matter for people still having Lenins on their streets. And those are not Westerners doing that. They brought down theirs years ago and probably helped with the one in Kyiv. It's mostly Central Ukraine now.
Are you just willfully not reading this thread? Obviously Putin doesnt care, but young men like you who are tearing them down instead of doing something constructive think he does. The people who care are either your fellow citizens in the East or Russians who can be distracted by Putin from the 51 billion dollars of their tax money he wasted while they dont have basic services and corruption is reaching historical heights.
I don't understand your fixation with these statues, or how there isn't anything constructive in tearing them down. I guarantee you Putin would prefer those statues remained untouched, that would be an indication of lesser anti-Russian sentiment and Putin badly needs the hate for Russia in western Ukraine to die down. Putin understands symbols and their power and what it means when they are discarded. You do not seem to. Tearing down the statues is a very public and powerful declaration that they want to be done with Russia. Shutting down schools that are too pro-Russian or something would not be constructive. Tearing down statues that remind you every time you look at them of your country's subjugation and piss you off is.
The way that the Federal government in the US went around tearing down statutes of Southern generals in the South right? I dont get waht you dont get. Some people, who are a minority but a large one, view these statutes as a positive representation of the history just like Cheerio views the presence of a genocidal antisemite on his currency as a positive because the guy also fought for an independent Ukraine against Polish occupiers. Going around tearing them down will have the exact same benefit as forcing Georgia and South Carolina to change their flags from their pro-Traitor flags to a non offensive one. It will just piss of the local minority and benefit the average American minimally.
Regarding the whole anti-semitism thing, there was just an announcement by the All-Ukrainian Jewish Congress:
Summary by the editor: The Russian media and some foreign media outlets have expressed concerns about rising antisemitism, neo-Nazism, and ultra-radical nationalism in the wake of the Ukrainian revolution. To be sure, the right wing organization Pravyi Sektor, or “Right Sector,” and the Svoboda party are nationalist organizations linked with some radical ideologies. A very prominent Jewish Ukrainian, Vadim Rabinovich, writes that on the whole, these ideologies don’t play a key role in the majority of what has transpired in Ukraine, and antisemitism is not on the rise.
Today, Vadim Rabinovich, president of the All-Ukrainian Jewish Congress (VEK), co-founder of the European Jewish Parliament (EJP) has published a statement in the media regarding the latest events and the situation in Ukraine. We cite the complete text of the statement:
STATEMENT from Vadim RABINOVICH
President of the All-Ukrainian Jewish Congress (VEK)
Chairman of the European Jewish Congress (EJP)
Throughout the entire period of the events in Ukraine, I have been directly located in Kiev and with my own eyes – not from the TV and from the media – have observed the situation. The Joint Jewish Community in Ukraine and the All-Ukrainian Jewish Congress all this time have been in constant contact with Jewish communities throughout Ukraine and with law-enforcement agencies, monitoring and studying the situation.
The general situation regarding the Jewish community of Ukraine is tolerant and quiet, there are no massive outbursts or worsening of antisemitism in Ukraine.
Several weeks ago, incidents were recorded of attacks on members of the community at a synagogue in the Podol district in Kiev. The situation is being investigated, a criminal case has been opened by law-enforcers, and the investigation has video recordings. There is confidence that the investigation will be conducted to the end.
On the night of 24 February, Molotov cocktails were thrown by unknown persons at the wall of the synagogue in Zaporozhe. I talked directly with the Zaporozhe rabbi and the head of the local community; fortunately, there were no serious consequences or damages as a result, and everything will be restored.
Law-enforcement agencies are treating the situation seriously, a criminal case has been open, and there are video surveillance recordings.
I personally have communicated with the heads of a whole number of groups that consider themselves radical, who have assured me that no manifestations of anti-Semitism have been or will be planned. Moreover, they emphasized in particular that they will ruthlessly combat such manifestations in their own midst. I want to reiterate: even in this difficult period of civic resistance, there have been no grounds to claim any serious incidents of anti-Semitism in Ukraine!
Thus, I categorically refute the statements appearing in a number of foreign media outlets of facts of massive anti-Semitism and xenophobia in Ukraine that do not correspond to reality!
The whipping up of the situation around this issue is of a provocative nature and does not contribute to a calm life for the Jewish community of Ukraine.
Together with the entire people of Ukraine, the Jewish community will actively participate in the building of a democratic state and promote the renewal and prosperity of the country. Source
On February 26 2014 07:17 xDaunt wrote: I hope that the US does some nation-building in Ukraine just as a big FU to Putin. It shouldn't cost that much -- maybe $20-30 billion to turn Ukraine into a western ally.
While I'm not so keen on needlessly antagonizing Russia; I agree the US should use money more, and military less; we have lots of money, and stuff is very cheap elsewhere in the world, so it's a better payoff rate to just use cash (with modest carefulness).
Ukraine should find a good way to pay off its debt; that would put it in a much better situation.
yeah bloody russian commies treated Ukraine so bad that it exploded demographically merciless bastards!
democratic leaders can't kill Ukraine population fast enough - soviet legacy is too strong
Don't be stupid, look up Holodomor 1932-1933 and Stalin's policies. You're only going to be opening up old wounds with your unfortunate attempt at humour.
Stalin = Russian Gold star for historical accuracy.
Oh, you are so clever, aren't you? If you know anything about Stalinist policy, it generally favored the Russian people much more than the rest of the Soviet Union at the expense of Ukraine in particular. Also, communism is a word that is often associated with nostalgia for Russia or Russian minority politics, such as the Communist Party of Ukraine.
another bright mind here
actually everything in Soviet Union was built at the expense of Russian people all minorities have extra rights vs russians
Not true, but not surprising that you actually believe that garbage. Just as an example, during the Great Purge, nearly the entire party leadership of the Ukrainian SSR was murdered or arrested and replaced by Russians. For another, in the early 30s they would have one train leaving Kharkov full of grain so the Russians in Smolensk or wherever wouldn't starve, the next train behind it would have its cars literally filled to the brim with the dead bodies of starved Ukrainians who died so those Russians could eat.
1. Great Purge wasn't targeting Ukranian SSR and it wasn't about any nation in specific. 2. Please, do not paint us bullshit pictures from your imagination (About trains and "starved Ukrainians who died so those Russians could eat"). It is really sensible stuff. I'm actually kinda pissed right now.
1. You're an ignoramus. The Great Purge targeted the Ukrainian SSR as much as it did every other constituent "Republic" of the Soviet Union and the purges in the Ukraine were some of the harshest and most comprehensive. I wish I still had my copy of Taubman's biography of Kruschev because it provides the numbers, stuff like when Kruschev returned to the Ukraine after the Purge he asked the NKVD to check the names on a list of Komosomol leaders because he wanted to rebuild the Komosomol (Communist Youth League), the list had something like 67 names on it. 65 had been killed or sent off to the gulag with "no further information available about them at this time." 2. I'm glad you're pissed off, you're an ignorant liar. Here is a quote from Kruschev's memoirs:
“Mikoyan told me that Comrade Demchenko, who was then first secretary of the Kiev Regional Committee, once came to see him in Moscow. Here’s what Demchenko said: ‘Anastas Ivanovich, does Comrade Stalin – for that matter, does anyone in the Politburo – know what’s happening in Ukraine? Well, if not, I’ll give you some idea. A train recently pulled into Kiev loaded with the corpses of people who had starved to death. It picked up corpses all the way from Poltava to Kiev…’”
And millions of Ukrainians did starve so Russians could eat, it's well-documented. It's also well-documented that Ukrainians starved so Stalin could sell their grain to the West to get capital for industrialization. It's also well-documented that the NKVD would load hundreds and thousands of swollen, dying Ukrainians onto trains and then dump them well outside of the towns so they could die in ditches and fields out of sight, then bury them in mass graves there or put their bodies back on the trains to bury in a mass grave somewhere else.
I leave you with this documentary about the Holodomor so maybe your head will come out of your butt.
You know why I was pissed? My granddad and his brother died in 1932 in Krasnodar (Russia) due to famine. So cincerly and deeply from my heart - Fuck you, asshole. I really, really want to punch you right now. You are really trying to match typical image of american in russian media. And it is not a compliment. 1. I'm not very proficient in english, so I meant that Great Purge didn't targeted Ukraine specificaly, and it wasn't about Ukraine and ukranian people, like you made it sound. 2. Do you know that Holodomor isn't acknowledged as genocide by Germany, France, England, Scandinavian countries, Austria, Greece and so on? And you know why? Because in that famine also died a huge amount of people in Russia (in Volga region, Don, Kuban and other regions. It was a national tragedy for Ukraine, but it was also one of great famines in Russia. So do not fucking claim that russians was well fed while ukranians was dying. Whole Soviet Union was deeply scarred by period of collectivisation.
For your information, joint UN statement on Holodomor: + Show Spoiler +
In the former Soviet Union millions of men, women and children fell victims to the cruel actions and policies of the totalitarian regime. The Great Famine of 1932–1933 in Ukraine (Holodomor), took from 7 million to 10 million innocent lives and became a national tragedy for the Ukrainian people. In this regard we note activities in observance of the seventieth anniversary of this Famine, in particular organized by the Government of Ukraine.
Honouring the seventieth anniversary of the Ukrainian tragedy, we also commemorate the memory of millions of Russians, Kazakhs and representatives of other nationalities who died of starvation in the Volga River region, Northern Caucasus, Kazakhstan and in other parts of the former Soviet Union, as a result of civil war and forced collectivisation, leaving deep scars in the consciousness of future generations.[106]
Also, I'm not going to post in this thread anymore, so you do not have to trouble yourself with an answer.
2. Do you know that Holodomor isn't acknowledged as genocide by Germany, France, England, Scandinavian countries, Austria, Greece and so on? And you know why? Because in that famine also died a huge amount of people in Russia (in Volga region, Don, Kuban and other regions.
This is wrong. Not the part that germany, france etc don't recognize it as genocide, which is true. Your "reason" is bullshit though. First of all, there's quite alot of countries that do recognize the Holomodor as genocide, and almost all of the countries you cited call it crime against humanity, because the legal definition of genocide doesn't fit there.
And that UN statement is kinda cute, if you keep in mind that russia allegedly was so scared that they pressured other countries to vote against the designation of Holomodor as genocide.
Up until this posting i thought you were the first reasonable russian i've seen so far in an internet-forum, you should refer from namecalling and other proletaria.
Russia rattling its sabre with a military alert in the western provinces:
"In accordance with an order from the president of the Russian Federation, forces of the Western Military District were put on alert at 1400 (1000 GMT) today," Interfax quoted Sergei Shoigu, the Russian Defence Minister, as saying.
Yanukovychs plan for "cleansing" Maidan:
Leaked documents published on the website of the former deputy interior minister revealed that Mr Yanukovych had drawn up a large-scale "anti-terrorist" operation involving 22,000 security forces to "cleanse" protesters from Kiev as the crisis escalated. ... It appears that plan was partly set in motion last Thursday - the deadliest day of the protests - but for unknown reasons some elements of the operation failed to materialise, allowing the demonstrators to take the advantage. Ukraine"
Yanukovych is still the legitimate leader of Ukraine according to Russias upper house. However, if they follow the correct procedures of impeachment that will change:
“Iimpeachment proceedings should be carried out. Then this issue should be submitted to the Supreme Court and the Constitutional Court. When all proceedings are over, he will cease to be Ukraine’s legitimate president,” she (red: Valentina Matviyenko) said.
ITAR-TASS There is something to be said for that interpretation, but Yanukovych is incapable of leading Ukraine at the moment, so it seems more like a reminder of what is needed to make the change legal according to the ukrainian constitution.
Yanukovich family owns around $12 billion in assets.
KYIV, February 26 /Ukrinform/. The first step in stabilizing the Ukrainian economy should be the confiscation of assets belonging to the family of Viktor Yanukovych and his entourage. Such a proposal was made by well-known economist and former adviser to the Ukrainian government, Anders Aslund, in an article published in Britain's Financial Times newspaper, ITAR-TASS reported. "Kyiv will need energetic international assistance to find and confiscate these stolen funds. They could significantly improve Ukraine's financial situation," Aslund said. He cited the data showing that the personal wealth of Yanukovych's family now reaches $12 billion. As reported, Ukraine's public and publicly guaranteed debt in 2013 grew by 13.31%, to $73.078 billion. As of December 31, 2013, Ukraine's foreign debt stood at $37.536 billion (51.36% of total public debt), and domestic debt was $35.5 billion (48.64%).
KYIV, February 26 /Ukrinform/. The first step in stabilizing the Ukrainian economy should be the confiscation of assets belonging to the family of Viktor Yanukovych and his entourage. Such a proposal was made by well-known economist and former adviser to the Ukrainian government, Anders Aslund, in an article published in Britain's Financial Times newspaper, ITAR-TASS reported. "Kyiv will need energetic international assistance to find and confiscate these stolen funds. They could significantly improve Ukraine's financial situation," Aslund said. He cited the data showing that the personal wealth of Yanukovych's family now reaches $12 billion. As reported, Ukraine's public and publicly guaranteed debt in 2013 grew by 13.31%, to $73.078 billion. As of December 31, 2013, Ukraine's foreign debt stood at $37.536 billion (51.36% of total public debt), and domestic debt was $35.5 billion (48.64%).
On February 27 2014 02:14 Cheerio wrote: Yanukovich family owns around $12 billion in assets.
KYIV, February 26 /Ukrinform/. The first step in stabilizing the Ukrainian economy should be the confiscation of assets belonging to the family of Viktor Yanukovych and his entourage. Such a proposal was made by well-known economist and former adviser to the Ukrainian government, Anders Aslund, in an article published in Britain's Financial Times newspaper, ITAR-TASS reported. "Kyiv will need energetic international assistance to find and confiscate these stolen funds. They could significantly improve Ukraine's financial situation," Aslund said. He cited the data showing that the personal wealth of Yanukovych's family now reaches $12 billion. As reported, Ukraine's public and publicly guaranteed debt in 2013 grew by 13.31%, to $73.078 billion. As of December 31, 2013, Ukraine's foreign debt stood at $37.536 billion (51.36% of total public debt), and domestic debt was $35.5 billion (48.64%).
Much of his riches are probably stored in Russia/Russian banks though and Putin most likely wouldn't agree to handing them out. And even if he wouldn't like Yanukovich he'd probably just silently seize it for himself.
On February 27 2014 02:14 Cheerio wrote: Yanukovich family owns around $12 billion in assets.
KYIV, February 26 /Ukrinform/. The first step in stabilizing the Ukrainian economy should be the confiscation of assets belonging to the family of Viktor Yanukovych and his entourage. Such a proposal was made by well-known economist and former adviser to the Ukrainian government, Anders Aslund, in an article published in Britain's Financial Times newspaper, ITAR-TASS reported. "Kyiv will need energetic international assistance to find and confiscate these stolen funds. They could significantly improve Ukraine's financial situation," Aslund said. He cited the data showing that the personal wealth of Yanukovych's family now reaches $12 billion. As reported, Ukraine's public and publicly guaranteed debt in 2013 grew by 13.31%, to $73.078 billion. As of December 31, 2013, Ukraine's foreign debt stood at $37.536 billion (51.36% of total public debt), and domestic debt was $35.5 billion (48.64%).
Much of his riches are probably stored in Russia/Russian banks though and Putin most likely wouldn't agree to handing them out. And even if he wouldn't like Yanukovich he'd probably just silently seize it for himself.
They are probably stored in Western banks. Thats why Yanukovichs' support collapsed over night as soon as EU declared its intention to issue bans on members of the regimes. Whats the point of drowning people in blood if you cant get to your money afterwards?
Russia is staging war games near the border with Ukraine. I've read some claims that it's up to 150,000 soldiers but that seems way too high that's almost 20% of their army's total active manpower. Either way Putin would be insane to send soldiers into the Ukraine despite some of the more frantic stories about these war games, I don't think there's any chance Russia invades. But crazier things have happened.
EPT![[image loading]](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/55/Population_of_Ukraine_v.2.PNG/800px-Population_of_Ukraine_v.2.PNG)
