On May 03 2014 23:58 ForTehDarkseid wrote: Well, there is no right side in this conflict, but I am quite dissappointed that Western leaders have chosen to support ultranationalists instead of withdrawing from them and not providing any financial support before autumn. They can't be that naive, right?
They just don't care and you support them like they do.
How many members does the Right Sector actually have? Wikipedia says up to 10,000, out of a Ukrainian population of 45 million. Therefore, no one is supporting them as they lose horribly in the election.
The expand on that, the UK facist party (BNP) has 5000 members out of a population of of 63 million, and it has never had a seat in parliament. All countries have fascist groups, but as long as people do not vote for them then they have no power.
Gerhard Schroeders office (ex-chancellor, big buddy and cuddlefriend of putin) "admitted" that putin and him talked about the german hostages on his birthday (monday). Interestingly, briefly after that (iirc, just hours, on tuesday), the situation changed to "likely to be freed soon" for the hostages, as was stated by putin (before the seperatists stated it on wednesday).
It might be coincedence, it still makes one think. Putin and schroeder always were "besties", so it's not too farfetched that schroeder has "some" influence on something like that (obv. not innerpolitical stuff, but asking "a favor" to release them).
Maybe i'm just overlooking something - i don't claim i'm right here. That's just something that crossed my mind.
On May 03 2014 23:07 zeo wrote: After being told to stay indoors for their own safety a group of citizens go out onto the street to express their disgust at a column of Kiev troops entering their city:
I think it shows the complexity of the situation in Ukraine right now. Maidan can send their troops into a city, but what then? The people will never bow to murderers.
@m4ini Let's just say in the heat of the moment we both interprate each others words wrongly and misunderstandings arise.
Then young woman says "our guys are being shot there", so be it Russian troops or town militia, they shall be "our guys" for these ppl and this is the crucial part that neither EU nor USA prefer to see. I have not seen a single evidence of Russian troops in Eastern Ukraine so far. Why does Kiev together with EU/USA keep accusing Russia of interfering and supporting the uprising in the East? I am not defending Russia, it is that I don't see why I should accuse it of something.
It's a bit of a stretch to say there is no evidence in my opinion - plenty of interviews and comments that imply it. Depends a bit on how you define evidence - it is true that there is nothing near to non-disbutable available to the public probably.
Even so - if there were no actual operators on the ground - they've made plenty clear that the people occupying buildings can not be touched or else.
It's a bit like having two friendly citizens of the world come up to you, one with a gun and the other with a stick. The one with the stick start beating you with their stick thing, and the other points a gun at you and says that if you hit back, bad things will happen to you. Equiped with a reasonable stick yourself, you probably wouldn't be that scared regarding the stick person, but the person holding the gun is probably somewhat problematic. Wouldn't it be fair to say that the gun-person is interfering with the situation?
It is. But did Russia say that they shall defend the East if Kiev send its troops? I didn't hear anything of the sort. It does not seem correct to jump to such serious accusations as military support and possible invasion when you do not provide similarly serious evidence, moreover when Moscow didn't directly declare that they shall be helping the East with guns if Kiev tries to use weapons against ppl. It looks like notorious hypothesis of "chemical weapons" which were never found but triggered so much pain for so many ppl. I mean that if any of us would act pre-emptively, basing on just speculations and not facts ppl could as well go and shoot each other right now, don't you agree?
Russia annexed Crimea and they've said multiple times they'd protect Russian minorities in other countries. It's not much of a jump with circumstantial evidence to conclude they're behind the unrest.
On May 03 2014 18:20 promiseme wrote: The amount of brainwashed Russia-hating ppl that ready to go kill russians is really quite astonishing in this topic. Western media doing its job. And all these ppl think that this is their own opinion. xD
Even this label they put "Pro-russian". In fact this ppl are pro-ukranian they defending their own land, freedom and families where they live. Also in english language there is no differense between "russian" (which can be called any russian-speaking slavic looking man) and rossianin (which is a russian citizen with passport). They unite these quite different terms under one "russian" label. So "pro-russian" means totaly different in english compared to russian. Like Odessa isnt pro-russian, its a russian city lol. In terms of nationality of majority ppl that live there. Well again english language... Also ppl that believe that all protests againt new Kiev goverment are only organized by Russia and that all ukrains are actually support this new goverment, and its all evil Russia that does its special operations to confront Ukrain and take its territory. Ppl that thinks so arent clever to they the least .
It is ok for this resource to be "russian-hating", as if you expected an english site to be a pro-russian one On the other hand the information we are getting now is so twisted that the only way to know the truth is to take a ticket to Ukraine. It is very difficult to stay neutral under such circumstances, sooner or later your opinion starts tilting.
Regarding the information coming out at the moment I completely agree. Everything is being twisted and turned and finding out what is up and down is difficult.
On May 03 2014 23:07 zeo wrote: After being told to stay indoors for their own safety a group of citizens go out onto the street to express their disgust at a column of Kiev troops entering their city: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l1JIVBdBzXE
I think it shows the complexity of the situation in Ukraine right now. Maidan can send their troops into a city, but what then? The people will never bow to murderers.
@m4ini Let's just say in the heat of the moment we both interprate each others words wrongly and misunderstandings arise.
Then young woman says "our guys are being shot there", so be it Russian troops or town militia, they shall be "our guys" for these ppl and this is the crucial part that neither EU nor USA prefer to see. I have not seen a single evidence of Russian troops in Eastern Ukraine so far. Why does Kiev together with EU/USA keep accusing Russia of interfering and supporting the uprising in the East? I am not defending Russia, it is that I don't see why I should accuse it of something.
And here you seem to infer a bit too much from a single woman out on the streets. If you really wanted to know what is happening in eastern Ukraine you would talk to people who are not in the streets too and use that to balance your information. The journalists who have done that see three very different opinions. The by far most prevalent according to those reporters are an irritation that those people had come to their area and that the ukrainian army was in the streets, they just wanted to be left alone and were for a federalisation of Ukraine. A group wanted Russia to save them and an annexation/complete independence from Ukraine and another group was afraid and were for a "united Ukraine". If you look at the video, the bias of the source can be seen from the description and as such I would be careful in drawing too many inferences from it. I have heard that these kinds of videos from the streets are common in Russian TV, but men with guns tend to have an effect on who are in the streets. As to add to your earlier statement, even if you are on the spot it will be hard to judge the overall attitude in such an area.
On May 03 2014 23:07 zeo wrote: After being told to stay indoors for their own safety a group of citizens go out onto the street to express their disgust at a column of Kiev troops entering their city: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l1JIVBdBzXE
I think it shows the complexity of the situation in Ukraine right now. Maidan can send their troops into a city, but what then? The people will never bow to murderers.
@m4ini Let's just say in the heat of the moment we both interprate each others words wrongly and misunderstandings arise.
Then young woman says "our guys are being shot there", so be it Russian troops or town militia, they shall be "our guys" for these ppl and this is the crucial part that neither EU nor USA prefer to see. I have not seen a single evidence of Russian troops in Eastern Ukraine so far. Why does Kiev together with EU/USA keep accusing Russia of interfering and supporting the uprising in the East? I am not defending Russia, it is that I don't see why I should accuse it of something.
It's a bit of a stretch to say there is no evidence in my opinion - plenty of interviews and comments that imply it. Depends a bit on how you define evidence - it is true that there is nothing near to non-disbutable available to the public probably.
Even so - if there were no actual operators on the ground - they've made plenty clear that the people occupying buildings can not be touched or else.
It's a bit like having two friendly citizens of the world come up to you, one with a gun and the other with a stick. The one with the stick start beating you with their stick thing, and the other points a gun at you and says that if you hit back, bad things will happen to you. Equiped with a reasonable stick yourself, you probably wouldn't be that scared regarding the stick person, but the person holding the gun is probably somewhat problematic. Wouldn't it be fair to say that the gun-person is interfering with the situation?
It is. But did Russia say that they shall defend the East if Kiev send its troops? I didn't hear anything of the sort. It does not seem correct to jump to such serious accusations as military support and possible invasion when you do not provide similarly serious evidence, moreover when Moscow didn't directly declare that they shall be helping the East with guns if Kiev tries to use weapons against ppl. It looks like notorious hypothesis of "chemical weapons" which were never found but triggered so much pain for so many ppl. I mean that if any of us would act pre-emptively, basing on just speculations and not facts ppl could as well go and shoot each other right now, don't you agree?
Aah, but that is my example used "...bad things will happen" not "you shall be shot by my gun". In our comparison, the gun would be the troop movements and apparently Supreme Comrade Putin also mentioned he has been allowed to save the Russians from the Ukranian yoke. For the "bad things" warning part please refer to Comrade Lavrov's statements.
PS. I didn't quite understand the chemical weapons part unfortunately, perhaps you can elaborate?
On May 03 2014 23:07 zeo wrote: After being told to stay indoors for their own safety a group of citizens go out onto the street to express their disgust at a column of Kiev troops entering their city: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l1JIVBdBzXE
I think it shows the complexity of the situation in Ukraine right now. Maidan can send their troops into a city, but what then? The people will never bow to murderers.
@m4ini Let's just say in the heat of the moment we both interprate each others words wrongly and misunderstandings arise.
Then young woman says "our guys are being shot there", so be it Russian troops or town militia, they shall be "our guys" for these ppl and this is the crucial part that neither EU nor USA prefer to see. I have not seen a single evidence of Russian troops in Eastern Ukraine so far. Why does Kiev together with EU/USA keep accusing Russia of interfering and supporting the uprising in the East? I am not defending Russia, it is that I don't see why I should accuse it of something.
It's a bit of a stretch to say there is no evidence in my opinion - plenty of interviews and comments that imply it. Depends a bit on how you define evidence - it is true that there is nothing near to non-disbutable available to the public probably.
Even so - if there were no actual operators on the ground - they've made plenty clear that the people occupying buildings can not be touched or else.
It's a bit like having two friendly citizens of the world come up to you, one with a gun and the other with a stick. The one with the stick start beating you with their stick thing, and the other points a gun at you and says that if you hit back, bad things will happen to you. Equiped with a reasonable stick yourself, you probably wouldn't be that scared regarding the stick person, but the person holding the gun is probably somewhat problematic. Wouldn't it be fair to say that the gun-person is interfering with the situation?
It is. But did Russia say that they shall defend the East if Kiev send its troops? I didn't hear anything of the sort. It does not seem correct to jump to such serious accusations as military support and possible invasion when you do not provide similarly serious evidence, moreover when Moscow didn't directly declare that they shall be helping the East with guns if Kiev tries to use weapons against ppl. It looks like notorious hypothesis of "chemical weapons" which were never found but triggered so much pain for so many ppl. I mean that if any of us would act pre-emptively, basing on just speculations and not facts ppl could as well go and shoot each other right now, don't you agree?
Russia annexed Crimea and they've said multiple times they'd protect Russian minorities in other countries. It's not much of a jump with circumstantial evidence to conclude they're behind the unrest.
They said, but do they actually protect? As mentioned above no one has a reliable evidence of Russian activity. The only evidence is actually the annexation of Crimea (I think this is the only thing Russia ever wanted from Ukraine). Most of the time western attitude seems like an overreaction, backed up by years of Cold War and general Russian antipathy. We may as well say that it all is a geopolitical war for the spheres of influence between West and Russia. But I am afraid I don't know that much to talk about politics on that level.
@hzflank, Well it's a little bit more complicated. I didn't see any little useful thing Maidan protestors tried to do to regulate the conflict peacefully, while creating tensions all over the country. Listen to the speeches current officials give: they don't care about anything other than their national identity, and think it's all Russian plot to destroy their country, which is childish, to say at least. That's not how the rational thinking citizens want them to react. Are they even capable of some reasonable actions, do they creative and educated enough in order to ressurect the fallen economy, and do we really believe they won't try to seize the power by force at upcoming elections if they already did it once?
The rule of thumb should be that those who can't even halt the civil war they partly started, should go to jail, but, hey, as long EU and USA think it's allright and they can use the situation to gain some favors like Russia already did, it's better be that way.
No one in or out means no one is allowed inside. I've been looking for correspondents in Kramatorsk, could you please post some sources?
Your statement is over the top since it seemed to imply that journalists specifically were not allowed to enter. You might be correct, but I haven't heard any reports of journalists failing to gain entry. I assume all the entrances are being manned by the Ukrainian army so it's possible that they could have in place a ban on people entering the city until the military operation is over. No facts backing that up though. I wouldn't be surprised either way.
Regardless, we should be able to get information about the city since it has 170,000 thousand residents and obviously some journalists amongst them. It is also quite possible that there are a few foreign journalists in the city, even if the army isn't allowing people to enter the city.
On May 03 2014 18:20 promiseme wrote: The amount of brainwashed Russia-hating ppl that ready to go kill russians is really quite astonishing in this topic. Western media doing its job. And all these ppl think that this is their own opinion. xD
Even this label they put "Pro-russian". In fact this ppl are pro-ukranian they defending their own land, freedom and families where they live. Also in english language there is no differense between "russian" (which can be called any russian-speaking slavic looking man) and rossianin (which is a russian citizen with passport). They unite these quite different terms under one "russian" label. So "pro-russian" means totaly different in english compared to russian. Like Odessa isnt pro-russian, its a russian city lol. In terms of nationality of majority ppl that live there. Well again english language... Also ppl that believe that all protests againt new Kiev goverment are only organized by Russia and that all ukrains are actually support this new goverment, and its all evil Russia that does its special operations to confront Ukrain and take its territory. Ppl that thinks so arent clever to they the least .
It is ok for this resource to be "russian-hating", as if you expected an english site to be a pro-russian one On the other hand the information we are getting now is so twisted that the only way to know the truth is to take a ticket to Ukraine. It is very difficult to stay neutral under such circumstances, sooner or later your opinion starts tilting.
Regarding the information coming out at the moment I completely agree. Everything is being twisted and turned and finding out what is up and down is difficult.
On May 03 2014 23:07 zeo wrote: After being told to stay indoors for their own safety a group of citizens go out onto the street to express their disgust at a column of Kiev troops entering their city: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l1JIVBdBzXE
I think it shows the complexity of the situation in Ukraine right now. Maidan can send their troops into a city, but what then? The people will never bow to murderers.
@m4ini Let's just say in the heat of the moment we both interprate each others words wrongly and misunderstandings arise.
Then young woman says "our guys are being shot there", so be it Russian troops or town militia, they shall be "our guys" for these ppl and this is the crucial part that neither EU nor USA prefer to see. I have not seen a single evidence of Russian troops in Eastern Ukraine so far. Why does Kiev together with EU/USA keep accusing Russia of interfering and supporting the uprising in the East? I am not defending Russia, it is that I don't see why I should accuse it of something.
And here you seem to infer a bit too much from a single woman out on the streets. If you really wanted to know what is happening in eastern Ukraine you would talk to people who are not in the streets too and use that to balance your information. The journalists who have done that see three very different opinions. The by far most prevalent according to those reporters are an irritation that those people had come to their area and that the ukrainian army was in the streets, they just wanted to be left alone and were for a federalisation of Ukraine. A group wanted Russia to save them and an annexation/complete independence from Ukraine and another group was afraid and were for a "united Ukraine". If you look at the video, the bias of the source can be seen from the description and as such I would be careful in drawing too many inferences from it. I have heard that these kinds of videos from the streets are common in Russian TV, but men with guns tend to have an effect on who are in the streets. As to add to your earlier statement, even if you are on the spot it will be hard to judge the overall attitude in such an area.
Yes, I would not draw conclusions basing on one video. But this video somehow summed up my opinion on the current situation. I have a dozen of relatives in Ukraine and they say that most of the time everything is calm. Occasionally there are nationalist groups of young ppl in the streets shouting "Hail to Ukraine" and the food prices went up rapidly up but for the most part it's calm. They also mentioned some crazy militarization started by Ukrainian government. It also happens that none of them supports Kiev. Maybe because we are all coming from Russia? And I tend to believe them so my opinion, though not completely biased, is influenced by close ppl. I am not at all happy with the current Kiev government, I think its activity poses big thread to peaceful resolution of a very difficult social problem.
Listen to the speeches current officials give: they don't care about anything other than their national identity, and think it's all Russian plot to destroy their country, which is childish, to say at least. That's not how the rational thinking citizens want them to react.
.
What are you talking about, first Crimea was occupied and annexed, and then suddenly a series of armed groups take over strategic cities in Easter Ukraine. In between Putin goes on Russian television and declared that race can be used as a foreign policy tool and proclaims that Ukraine is an invented country. Its not childish to be concerned about Russian takeover, especially when all efforts have been made to prevent an actual elections to be held.
Listen to the speeches current officials give: they don't care about anything other than their national identity, and think it's all Russian plot to destroy their country, which is childish, to say at least. That's not how the rational thinking citizens want them to react.
.
What are you talking about, first Crimea was occupied and annexed, and then suddenly a series of armed groups take over strategic cities in Easter Ukraine. In between Putin goes on Russian television and declared that race can be used as a foreign policy tool and proclaims that Ukraine is an invented country. Its not childish to be concerned about Russian takeover, especially when all efforts have been made to prevent an actual elections to be held.
That's naive. This is the politics we're talking about, remember? Everyone has a different agenda in their mind and on their tongue. The problem is that Ukraine's economy is ruined beyond any autonomic means of recovery and finding solution for that should be your main priority as the goverment because only that guarantees your independence as a country.
On May 03 2014 23:07 zeo wrote: After being told to stay indoors for their own safety a group of citizens go out onto the street to express their disgust at a column of Kiev troops entering their city: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l1JIVBdBzXE
I think it shows the complexity of the situation in Ukraine right now. Maidan can send their troops into a city, but what then? The people will never bow to murderers.
@m4ini Let's just say in the heat of the moment we both interprate each others words wrongly and misunderstandings arise.
Then young woman says "our guys are being shot there", so be it Russian troops or town militia, they shall be "our guys" for these ppl and this is the crucial part that neither EU nor USA prefer to see. I have not seen a single evidence of Russian troops in Eastern Ukraine so far. Why does Kiev together with EU/USA keep accusing Russia of interfering and supporting the uprising in the East? I am not defending Russia, it is that I don't see why I should accuse it of something.
It's a bit of a stretch to say there is no evidence in my opinion - plenty of interviews and comments that imply it. Depends a bit on how you define evidence - it is true that there is nothing near to non-disbutable available to the public probably.
Even so - if there were no actual operators on the ground - they've made plenty clear that the people occupying buildings can not be touched or else.
It's a bit like having two friendly citizens of the world come up to you, one with a gun and the other with a stick. The one with the stick start beating you with their stick thing, and the other points a gun at you and says that if you hit back, bad things will happen to you. Equiped with a reasonable stick yourself, you probably wouldn't be that scared regarding the stick person, but the person holding the gun is probably somewhat problematic. Wouldn't it be fair to say that the gun-person is interfering with the situation?
It is. But did Russia say that they shall defend the East if Kiev send its troops? I didn't hear anything of the sort. It does not seem correct to jump to such serious accusations as military support and possible invasion when you do not provide similarly serious evidence, moreover when Moscow didn't directly declare that they shall be helping the East with guns if Kiev tries to use weapons against ppl. It looks like notorious hypothesis of "chemical weapons" which were never found but triggered so much pain for so many ppl. I mean that if any of us would act pre-emptively, basing on just speculations and not facts ppl could as well go and shoot each other right now, don't you agree?
Aah, but that is my example used "...bad things will happen" not "you shall be shot by my gun". In our comparison, the gun would be the troop movements and apparently Supreme Comrade Putin also mentioned he has been allowed to save the Russians from the Ukranian yoke. For the "bad things" warning part please refer to Comrade Lavrov's statements.
PS. I didn't quite understand the chemical weapons part unfortunately, perhaps you can elaborate?
Yes, but in your example I've actually started to use my stick to fight back already. Let's just hope the man with the gun remains just the man with the gun.
No one in or out means no one is allowed inside. I've been looking for correspondents in Kramatorsk, could you please post some sources?
Your statement is over the top since it seemed to imply that journalists specifically were not allowed to enter. You might be correct, but I haven't heard any reports of journalists failing to gain entry. I assume all the entrances are being manned by the Ukrainian army so it's possible that they could have in place a ban on people entering the city until the military operation is over. No facts, backing that up though. I wouldn't be surprised either way.
Regardless, we should be able to get information about the city since it has 170,000 thousand residents and obviously some journalists amongst them. It is also quite probable that there are a few foreign journalists in the city, even if the army isn't allowing people to enter the city.
So you don't have any evidence that journalists are in Kramatorsk? You implied in your earlier post that people were reporting from inside Kramatorsk, I genuinely want to know what the hell is happening in there.
On May 03 2014 21:12 Xiphos wrote: So many hatred against Russia even when for decades, USA have been destabilizing governments all over the world.
Un moral actions of one country does not excuse another country doing the same.
But it doesn't give Americans (or any other countries for that matter) the higher moral ground of chastising Russians for what they are doing.
Beside the "democracy" that Americans want to bring to a country is just to simply insert a puppet government instated by the USA to control the region for geopolitical reasons.
As matter of fact, criticizing other countries of doing the same is hypocrisy at its best.
Again "It is good as long as it is good for me." That's the nature of humanity. I'm pretty sure that at one point in our lives, we have done at least some selfish act because of that, I personally wouldn't place anyone at a higher ground than another person, never mind an entire nation.
Listen to the speeches current officials give: they don't care about anything other than their national identity, and think it's all Russian plot to destroy their country, which is childish, to say at least. That's not how the rational thinking citizens want them to react.
.
What are you talking about, first Crimea was occupied and annexed, and then suddenly a series of armed groups take over strategic cities in Easter Ukraine. In between Putin goes on Russian television and declared that race can be used as a foreign policy tool and proclaims that Ukraine is an invented country. Its not childish to be concerned about Russian takeover, especially when all efforts have been made to prevent an actual elections to be held.
That's naive. This is the politics we're talking about, remember? Everyone has a different agenda in their mind and on their tongue. The problem is that Ukraine's economy is ruined beyond any autonomic means of recovery.
How is it naive, because the country has witnessed a take over of one of its provinces with armed forces, the placement of more armed forces on its border and a hostile leader announcing that he has the right to invade anyone he wants to protect a specific race.
Listen to the speeches current officials give: they don't care about anything other than their national identity, and think it's all Russian plot to destroy their country, which is childish, to say at least. That's not how the rational thinking citizens want them to react.
.
What are you talking about, first Crimea was occupied and annexed, and then suddenly a series of armed groups take over strategic cities in Easter Ukraine. In between Putin goes on Russian television and declared that race can be used as a foreign policy tool and proclaims that Ukraine is an invented country. Its not childish to be concerned about Russian takeover, especially when all efforts have been made to prevent an actual elections to be held.
That's naive. This is the politics we're talking about, remember? Everyone has a different agenda in their mind and on their tongue. The problem is that Ukraine's economy is ruined beyond any autonomic means of recovery.
How is it naive, because the country has witnessed a take over of one of its provinces with armed forces, the placement of more armed forces on its border and a hostile leader announcing that he has the right to invade anyone he wants to protect a specific race.
Well, I may sound cynical, but the truth is if Russia decides to invade Ukraine, Ukraine has zero chance to deal it with their own forces. Why should they even bother then? Basically it looks like the officials have already decided to join EU and de facto lose their economical independence.
If I were a devoted citizen I would fight such regime. Or just abandon the damned place.
lots of conflicts going on :\ russia/ukraine, china/japan, south korea/north korea, india/pakistan, I guess south/north korea is still the most dangerous though
Listen to the speeches current officials give: they don't care about anything other than their national identity, and think it's all Russian plot to destroy their country, which is childish, to say at least. That's not how the rational thinking citizens want them to react.
.
What are you talking about, first Crimea was occupied and annexed, and then suddenly a series of armed groups take over strategic cities in Easter Ukraine. In between Putin goes on Russian television and declared that race can be used as a foreign policy tool and proclaims that Ukraine is an invented country. Its not childish to be concerned about Russian takeover, especially when all efforts have been made to prevent an actual elections to be held.
That's naive. This is the politics we're talking about, remember? Everyone has a different agenda in their mind and on their tongue. The problem is that Ukraine's economy is ruined beyond any autonomic means of recovery.
How is it naive, because the country has witnessed a take over of one of its provinces with armed forces, the placement of more armed forces on its border and a hostile leader announcing that he has the right to invade anyone he wants to protect a specific race.
Well, I may sound cynical, but the truth is if Russia decides to invade Ukraine, Ukraine has zero chance to deal it with their own forces. Why should they even bother then?
Why would Russia bother invading Crimea, it changed nothing for Russia and will cost them billions. Why did Putin provide free money to his puppet Yanukovich and tried to tie Ukraine into the 'Eurasian Union', it would cost Russia billions and provide no benefits. If you are cynical then be cynical, the Russian economy entering a period of stagnation last autumn that is still ongoing and Putin, further hurt by demonstrations against his return by people he thought were his biggest supporters, needs another successful foreign policy adventure to distract from the stagnation while developing some kind of ideology that rests on him being president for life.
Listen to the speeches current officials give: they don't care about anything other than their national identity, and think it's all Russian plot to destroy their country, which is childish, to say at least. That's not how the rational thinking citizens want them to react.
.
What are you talking about, first Crimea was occupied and annexed, and then suddenly a series of armed groups take over strategic cities in Easter Ukraine. In between Putin goes on Russian television and declared that race can be used as a foreign policy tool and proclaims that Ukraine is an invented country. Its not childish to be concerned about Russian takeover, especially when all efforts have been made to prevent an actual elections to be held.
That's naive. This is the politics we're talking about, remember? Everyone has a different agenda in their mind and on their tongue. The problem is that Ukraine's economy is ruined beyond any autonomic means of recovery.
How is it naive, because the country has witnessed a take over of one of its provinces with armed forces, the placement of more armed forces on its border and a hostile leader announcing that he has the right to invade anyone he wants to protect a specific race.
Your timeline of events is devoid of reality. During maidan the people of Crimea were furious at Yanukovych for letting bandits take over the streets of the country, they said if Yanukovych didn't clean up right-sector they would push for independence. maidan knew full well that power shifting into the hands of the people 60% of Ukraine didn't want in power would do. Ukraine's and Crimea's fate was sealed the moment that right sector leader went in front of euromaidan and sent Klitchko into a corner, declaring his agreement with Yanukovych for a peaceful solution to the crisis void.
I admit I did not agree with how things went down in Crimea after that but such was the corner they were pushed into. But looking back on it the actions of the authorities in Crimea spared them from the bloodshed now engulfing eastern Ukraine. Now we would be looking at pictures and video's of euromaidan supporters being bussed in and setting people on fire, cutting off their limbs and other savage acts in Sevastopol and Simferopol too if it weren't for them.
EPT
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