|
|
The amount of brainwashed Russia-hating ppl that ready to go kill russians is really quite astonishing in this topic. Western media doing its job. And all these ppl think that this is their own opinion. xD
Even this label they put "Pro-russian". In fact this ppl are pro-ukranian they defending their own land, freedom and families where they live. Also in english language there is no differense between "russian" (which can be called any russian-speaking slavic looking man) and rossianin (which is a russian citizen with passport). They unite these quite different terms under one "russian" label. So "pro-russian" means totaly different in english compared to russian. Like Odessa isnt pro-russian, its a russian city lol. In terms of nationality of majority ppl that live there. Well again english language...
Also ppl that believe that all protests againt new Kiev goverment are only organized by Russia and that all ukrains are actually support this new goverment, and its all evil Russia that does its special operations to confront Ukrain and take its territory. Ppl that thinks so arent clever to they the least  .
|
On May 03 2014 18:20 promiseme wrote:
The amount of brainwashed Russia-hating ppl that ready to go kill russians is really quite astonishing in this topic. Western media doing its job. And all these ppl think that this is their own opinion. xD
I missed the part where anyone called to kill Russians. Care to show it to me?
Even this label they put "Pro-russian". In fact this ppl are pro-ukranian they defending their own land, freedom and families where they live. Also in english language there is no differense between "russian" (which can be called any russian-speaking slavic looking man) and rossianin (which is a russian citizen with passport). They unite these quite different terms under one "russian" label. So "pro-russian" means totaly different in english compared to russian. Like Odessa isnt pro-russian, its a russian city lol. In terms of nationality of majority ppl that live there. Well again english language... Also ppl that believe that all protests againt new Kiev goverment are only organized by Russia and that all ukrains are actually support this new goverment, and its all evil Russia that does its special operations to confront Ukrain and take its territory. Ppl that thinks so arent clever to they the least .
TIL Odessa has Russian majority. Please:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Odessa#Demographics
Russian speaking Ukrainians are not Russian. All the hyperboles and generalizations in your post are blatant lies.
|
On May 03 2014 17:34 Feartheguru wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2014 17:21 semantics wrote:On May 03 2014 17:18 Feartheguru wrote:On May 03 2014 17:14 semantics wrote:On May 03 2014 17:05 zeo wrote:On May 03 2014 16:59 AlternativeEgo wrote:
How does "horrible with at least 38 dead" translate to "those people deserved to die"? Yes of course, upon hearing that 38 people have died everyone's first reaction should be to downplay the involvement of the side we are supporting and insinuate it was the victims fault. I'm sure that's how a foreign minister should act. On May 03 2014 17:02 semantics wrote:On May 03 2014 16:55 zeo wrote:On May 03 2014 16:49 semantics wrote:Do you have multiple sources confirming that's what happened. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/HXEXm6S.jpg) Don't even need photoshop... Here you go, page 469 + Show Spoiler +On May 03 2014 04:15 zeo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2014 04:14 Shiragaku wrote:On May 03 2014 04:07 zeo wrote:On May 03 2014 04:03 Gorsameth wrote:On May 03 2014 03:59 zeo wrote:
They will all fucking burn in hell, every single one of those Bandera shits and Chernomorets hooligans. They even stopped a fire truck coming to the scene and beat up the firefighters. Those fucking junta pigs will pay for this mass murder. Arnt you cute when your angry. Where were you when people were getting tortured less then a week ago. Where were you when Madian protestors were tortured? 38 people, 38 civilians burned alive and your only comment is an ad hominem. Don't worry, now I will be in this thread until every organizer of Euromaidan is put on trial for murder. Hey man, what happened is fucking horrible but everything that you say is just unbelievably opportunistic. What I'm saying is 38 people are dead, trapped in a building that was set on fire with Molotov cocktails and the collective reaction of the western media is 'meh'. Someone is going to pay for this. edit: and pay dearly Fucking Carl Bilt is trying to justify the murder of 38 people on twitter Of course they were trying to take over a building they have been in for months Actually wait, all his tweets are on his official twitter account, the monster didn't even have the slightest amount of human decency and delete them. That's not in question...You said he deleted tweets and went to damage control your page 496 has nothing confirming that happened ![[image loading]](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BmqCLxfCUAECi6-.jpg) All i wanted you to do is actually visit the twitter page and notice nothing was deleted yet you actively crafted the narrative that he said something bad, got caught and deleted it because trying to give a tone of plotting and malcontent. Just wanted to point out how willing you're accepting random shit as fact without giving it a second thought. But now that you noticed he didn't delete them you just decided to say he doesn't have the human decency to delete them. Amazing! Maybe you should read posts more carefully? If he had deleted them it would have shown that at least he realized how horrible his words were, this is much much worse... Good job don't even accept the fact you made something up, saying he deleted those posts. Deflect throw blame at my reading comprehension. You can't even accept that you made shit up. On May 03 2014 17:05 zeo wrote:On May 03 2014 16:59 AlternativeEgo wrote:
How does "horrible with at least 38 dead" translate to "those people deserved to die"? Yes of course, upon hearing that 38 people have died everyone's first reaction should be to downplay the involvement of the side we are supporting and insinuate it was the victims fault. I'm sure that's how a foreign minister should act. You're right he should act more like the Russian foreign minister who blames everything on the U.S. And affirm all those rising up against Kiev are not puppets of Russia and all those in Kiev puppets of the U.S. Just like Kerry saying all those rising against Kiev are puppets of Russia and all those in Kiev are not puppets of the U.S. of course this is what they would say. Are you trying to imply Russia's foreign minister is doing something uniquely sinister? Not really just pointing out how low the bar is for what foreign ministers say, frankly those tweets are fairly innocuous compared to US and Russian statements. Plus just trying to get zeo to accept he just makes up random shit all day and never accepts he can be wrong when he gets called out on it. He just continuously changes his tone just throwing stuff out there hoping things stick. It's not a conversation when that happens it's just someone trying to make others accept their worldview. There have been a couple things from Zeo that are completely wrong, but mostly his viewpoint from how I see it is exactly what I would expect from someone from a Russian point of view. In many ways Russia has been "wrong", but the West has been hypocritical through it all. Russia is doing what it's doing because the it considers what the West is doing as encroaching too close. An apt comparison would be the U.S. overthrowing the democratic government in Chile for a brutal dictator because it wouldn't let communism encroach so close. What Russia is doing now is "wrong" just like the U.S. was "wrong" then, but that's just geopolitics, and making it into a good vs evil narrative is a rather easy way to gather national popular sentiment. I have no access to Russian media but to Russians, they probably see the West as evil and them as good. This thread has not been a conversation for a long time. It's just people circlejerking on Zeo, I'm not surprised he doesn't own up to the times he has been shown to be wrong when everyone is so hostile. I'm sure on a Russia forum the lone American is getting similarly berated. It'd be nice is everyone tried to look at thing from the other perspective instead of buying into the good vs evil narrative, but I guess that's too much to hope for even on TL.
Absolutely, I have been wrong and I have admitted it. Most notably the infamous Hitler picture, I saw that picture on a Serbian news portal, googled it and saw the same thing on French, German and English sites and (wrongly) assumed it was legit. The real picture hanging from the building was a portrait of Bandera which is horrible in itself, but a mistake was made and I admitted it in this thread. But as is the case with most things in this thread, if enough circlejerkers and trolls say its true, then it must be true, zeo this, zeo that.
If failing to check a source is a crime then I am small fry compared to the twitter spamming legion in this thread. Pages and pages of unverified opinions peddled as facts. Call them out on these Gebbles levels of disinformation and they only answer with ad hominems, fallacy fallacies, strawmans and any other number of stupid logical fallacies.
|
|
|
|
|
So many hatred against Russia even when for decades, USA have been destabilizing governments all over the world.
|
On May 03 2014 18:31 zeo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2014 17:34 Feartheguru wrote:On May 03 2014 17:21 semantics wrote:On May 03 2014 17:18 Feartheguru wrote:On May 03 2014 17:14 semantics wrote:On May 03 2014 17:05 zeo wrote:On May 03 2014 16:59 AlternativeEgo wrote:
How does "horrible with at least 38 dead" translate to "those people deserved to die"? Yes of course, upon hearing that 38 people have died everyone's first reaction should be to downplay the involvement of the side we are supporting and insinuate it was the victims fault. I'm sure that's how a foreign minister should act. On May 03 2014 17:02 semantics wrote:On May 03 2014 16:55 zeo wrote:On May 03 2014 16:49 semantics wrote:Do you have multiple sources confirming that's what happened. Don't even need photoshop... Here you go, page 469 + Show Spoiler +On May 03 2014 04:15 zeo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2014 04:14 Shiragaku wrote:On May 03 2014 04:07 zeo wrote:On May 03 2014 04:03 Gorsameth wrote:On May 03 2014 03:59 zeo wrote:
They will all fucking burn in hell, every single one of those Bandera shits and Chernomorets hooligans. They even stopped a fire truck coming to the scene and beat up the firefighters. Those fucking junta pigs will pay for this mass murder. Arnt you cute when your angry. Where were you when people were getting tortured less then a week ago. Where were you when Madian protestors were tortured? 38 people, 38 civilians burned alive and your only comment is an ad hominem. Don't worry, now I will be in this thread until every organizer of Euromaidan is put on trial for murder. Hey man, what happened is fucking horrible but everything that you say is just unbelievably opportunistic. What I'm saying is 38 people are dead, trapped in a building that was set on fire with Molotov cocktails and the collective reaction of the western media is 'meh'. Someone is going to pay for this. edit: and pay dearly Fucking Carl Bilt is trying to justify the murder of 38 people on twitter https://twitter.com/carlbildt/status/462307447882121216Of course they were trying to take over a building they have been in for months Actually wait, all his tweets are on his official twitter account, the monster didn't even have the slightest amount of human decency and delete them. That's not in question...You said he deleted tweets and went to damage control your page 496 has nothing confirming that happened All i wanted you to do is actually visit the twitter page and notice nothing was deleted yet you actively crafted the narrative that he said something bad, got caught and deleted it because trying to give a tone of plotting and malcontent. Just wanted to point out how willing you're accepting random shit as fact without giving it a second thought. But now that you noticed he didn't delete them you just decided to say he doesn't have the human decency to delete them. Amazing! Maybe you should read posts more carefully? If he had deleted them it would have shown that at least he realized how horrible his words were, this is much much worse... Good job don't even accept the fact you made something up, saying he deleted those posts. Deflect throw blame at my reading comprehension. You can't even accept that you made shit up. On May 03 2014 17:05 zeo wrote:On May 03 2014 16:59 AlternativeEgo wrote:
How does "horrible with at least 38 dead" translate to "those people deserved to die"? Yes of course, upon hearing that 38 people have died everyone's first reaction should be to downplay the involvement of the side we are supporting and insinuate it was the victims fault. I'm sure that's how a foreign minister should act. You're right he should act more like the Russian foreign minister who blames everything on the U.S. And affirm all those rising up against Kiev are not puppets of Russia and all those in Kiev puppets of the U.S. Just like Kerry saying all those rising against Kiev are puppets of Russia and all those in Kiev are not puppets of the U.S. of course this is what they would say. Are you trying to imply Russia's foreign minister is doing something uniquely sinister? Not really just pointing out how low the bar is for what foreign ministers say, frankly those tweets are fairly innocuous compared to US and Russian statements. Plus just trying to get zeo to accept he just makes up random shit all day and never accepts he can be wrong when he gets called out on it. He just continuously changes his tone just throwing stuff out there hoping things stick. It's not a conversation when that happens it's just someone trying to make others accept their worldview. There have been a couple things from Zeo that are completely wrong, but mostly his viewpoint from how I see it is exactly what I would expect from someone from a Russian point of view. In many ways Russia has been "wrong", but the West has been hypocritical through it all. Russia is doing what it's doing because the it considers what the West is doing as encroaching too close. An apt comparison would be the U.S. overthrowing the democratic government in Chile for a brutal dictator because it wouldn't let communism encroach so close. What Russia is doing now is "wrong" just like the U.S. was "wrong" then, but that's just geopolitics, and making it into a good vs evil narrative is a rather easy way to gather national popular sentiment. I have no access to Russian media but to Russians, they probably see the West as evil and them as good. This thread has not been a conversation for a long time. It's just people circlejerking on Zeo, I'm not surprised he doesn't own up to the times he has been shown to be wrong when everyone is so hostile. I'm sure on a Russia forum the lone American is getting similarly berated. It'd be nice is everyone tried to look at thing from the other perspective instead of buying into the good vs evil narrative, but I guess that's too much to hope for even on TL. If failing to check a source is a crime then I am small fry compared to the twitter spamming legion in this thread. Pages and pages of unverified opinions peddled as facts. Call them out on these Gebbles levels of disinformation and they only answer with ad hominems, fallacy fallacies, strawmans and any other number of stupid logical fallacies.
Hm..
On May 03 2014 16:20 zeo wrote:
I wonder who the ten civilians killed last night in Kramatorsk by the maidan-controlled military are going to vote for.
Hmmm..
Overnight, Russian media reported fighting near Kramatorsk, citing hospital sources as saying one person had been killed and nine wounded. (src)
Okay. Let's put it this way, even if the tweets were wrong in some way, he's not making them up. You do. How exactly is that different?
|
On May 03 2014 21:31 m4ini wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2014 18:31 zeo wrote:On May 03 2014 17:34 Feartheguru wrote:On May 03 2014 17:21 semantics wrote:On May 03 2014 17:18 Feartheguru wrote:On May 03 2014 17:14 semantics wrote:On May 03 2014 17:05 zeo wrote:On May 03 2014 16:59 AlternativeEgo wrote:
How does "horrible with at least 38 dead" translate to "those people deserved to die"? Yes of course, upon hearing that 38 people have died everyone's first reaction should be to downplay the involvement of the side we are supporting and insinuate it was the victims fault. I'm sure that's how a foreign minister should act. On May 03 2014 17:02 semantics wrote:On May 03 2014 16:55 zeo wrote:On May 03 2014 16:49 semantics wrote:[quote] Do you have multiple sources confirming that's what happened. Don't even need photoshop... Here you go, page 469 + Show Spoiler +On May 03 2014 04:15 zeo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2014 04:14 Shiragaku wrote:On May 03 2014 04:07 zeo wrote:On May 03 2014 04:03 Gorsameth wrote:On May 03 2014 03:59 zeo wrote:
They will all fucking burn in hell, every single one of those Bandera shits and Chernomorets hooligans. They even stopped a fire truck coming to the scene and beat up the firefighters. Those fucking junta pigs will pay for this mass murder. Arnt you cute when your angry. Where were you when people were getting tortured less then a week ago. Where were you when Madian protestors were tortured? 38 people, 38 civilians burned alive and your only comment is an ad hominem. Don't worry, now I will be in this thread until every organizer of Euromaidan is put on trial for murder. Hey man, what happened is fucking horrible but everything that you say is just unbelievably opportunistic. What I'm saying is 38 people are dead, trapped in a building that was set on fire with Molotov cocktails and the collective reaction of the western media is 'meh'. Someone is going to pay for this. edit: and pay dearly Fucking Carl Bilt is trying to justify the murder of 38 people on twitter https://twitter.com/carlbildt/status/462307447882121216Of course they were trying to take over a building they have been in for months Actually wait, all his tweets are on his official twitter account, the monster didn't even have the slightest amount of human decency and delete them. That's not in question...You said he deleted tweets and went to damage control your page 496 has nothing confirming that happened All i wanted you to do is actually visit the twitter page and notice nothing was deleted yet you actively crafted the narrative that he said something bad, got caught and deleted it because trying to give a tone of plotting and malcontent. Just wanted to point out how willing you're accepting random shit as fact without giving it a second thought. But now that you noticed he didn't delete them you just decided to say he doesn't have the human decency to delete them. Amazing! Maybe you should read posts more carefully? If he had deleted them it would have shown that at least he realized how horrible his words were, this is much much worse... Good job don't even accept the fact you made something up, saying he deleted those posts. Deflect throw blame at my reading comprehension. You can't even accept that you made shit up. On May 03 2014 17:05 zeo wrote:On May 03 2014 16:59 AlternativeEgo wrote:
How does "horrible with at least 38 dead" translate to "those people deserved to die"? Yes of course, upon hearing that 38 people have died everyone's first reaction should be to downplay the involvement of the side we are supporting and insinuate it was the victims fault. I'm sure that's how a foreign minister should act. You're right he should act more like the Russian foreign minister who blames everything on the U.S. And affirm all those rising up against Kiev are not puppets of Russia and all those in Kiev puppets of the U.S. Just like Kerry saying all those rising against Kiev are puppets of Russia and all those in Kiev are not puppets of the U.S. of course this is what they would say. Are you trying to imply Russia's foreign minister is doing something uniquely sinister? Not really just pointing out how low the bar is for what foreign ministers say, frankly those tweets are fairly innocuous compared to US and Russian statements. Plus just trying to get zeo to accept he just makes up random shit all day and never accepts he can be wrong when he gets called out on it. He just continuously changes his tone just throwing stuff out there hoping things stick. It's not a conversation when that happens it's just someone trying to make others accept their worldview. There have been a couple things from Zeo that are completely wrong, but mostly his viewpoint from how I see it is exactly what I would expect from someone from a Russian point of view. In many ways Russia has been "wrong", but the West has been hypocritical through it all. Russia is doing what it's doing because the it considers what the West is doing as encroaching too close. An apt comparison would be the U.S. overthrowing the democratic government in Chile for a brutal dictator because it wouldn't let communism encroach so close. What Russia is doing now is "wrong" just like the U.S. was "wrong" then, but that's just geopolitics, and making it into a good vs evil narrative is a rather easy way to gather national popular sentiment. I have no access to Russian media but to Russians, they probably see the West as evil and them as good. This thread has not been a conversation for a long time. It's just people circlejerking on Zeo, I'm not surprised he doesn't own up to the times he has been shown to be wrong when everyone is so hostile. I'm sure on a Russia forum the lone American is getting similarly berated. It'd be nice is everyone tried to look at thing from the other perspective instead of buying into the good vs evil narrative, but I guess that's too much to hope for even on TL. If failing to check a source is a crime then I am small fry compared to the twitter spamming legion in this thread. Pages and pages of unverified opinions peddled as facts. Call them out on these Gebbles levels of disinformation and they only answer with ad hominems, fallacy fallacies, strawmans and any other number of stupid logical fallacies. Hm.. Show nested quote +On May 03 2014 16:20 zeo wrote:
I wonder who the ten civilians killed last night in Kramatorsk by the maidan-controlled military are going to vote for. Hmmm.. Show nested quote +Overnight, Russian media reported fighting near Kramatorsk, citing hospital sources as saying one person had been killed and nine wounded. (src) Okay. Let's put it this way, even if the tweets were wrong in some way, he's not making them up. You do. How exactly is that different?
Maybe you missed the part were all journalists are barred from entering Kramatorsk
http://rt.com/news/156552-kramatorsk-military-operation-resumed/
"Last night 10 people on our side died, they were all unarmed civilians,” the self-defense member, who wouldn’t disclose his identity, told RIA Novosti.
He added that 30 people were wounded after the Ukrainian army opened fire.
NSFW
+ Show Spoiler +
Glory to Ukraine indeed.
|
On May 03 2014 21:41 zeo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2014 21:31 m4ini wrote:On May 03 2014 18:31 zeo wrote:On May 03 2014 17:34 Feartheguru wrote:On May 03 2014 17:21 semantics wrote:On May 03 2014 17:18 Feartheguru wrote:On May 03 2014 17:14 semantics wrote:On May 03 2014 17:05 zeo wrote:On May 03 2014 16:59 AlternativeEgo wrote:
How does "horrible with at least 38 dead" translate to "those people deserved to die"? Yes of course, upon hearing that 38 people have died everyone's first reaction should be to downplay the involvement of the side we are supporting and insinuate it was the victims fault. I'm sure that's how a foreign minister should act. On May 03 2014 17:02 semantics wrote:On May 03 2014 16:55 zeo wrote:[quote] Here you go, page 469 + Show Spoiler +On May 03 2014 04:15 zeo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2014 04:14 Shiragaku wrote:On May 03 2014 04:07 zeo wrote:On May 03 2014 04:03 Gorsameth wrote:On May 03 2014 03:59 zeo wrote:
They will all fucking burn in hell, every single one of those Bandera shits and Chernomorets hooligans. They even stopped a fire truck coming to the scene and beat up the firefighters. Those fucking junta pigs will pay for this mass murder. Arnt you cute when your angry. Where were you when people were getting tortured less then a week ago. Where were you when Madian protestors were tortured? 38 people, 38 civilians burned alive and your only comment is an ad hominem. Don't worry, now I will be in this thread until every organizer of Euromaidan is put on trial for murder. Hey man, what happened is fucking horrible but everything that you say is just unbelievably opportunistic. What I'm saying is 38 people are dead, trapped in a building that was set on fire with Molotov cocktails and the collective reaction of the western media is 'meh'. Someone is going to pay for this. edit: and pay dearly Fucking Carl Bilt is trying to justify the murder of 38 people on twitter https://twitter.com/carlbildt/status/462307447882121216Of course they were trying to take over a building they have been in for months Actually wait, all his tweets are on his official twitter account, the monster didn't even have the slightest amount of human decency and delete them. That's not in question...You said he deleted tweets and went to damage control your page 496 has nothing confirming that happened All i wanted you to do is actually visit the twitter page and notice nothing was deleted yet you actively crafted the narrative that he said something bad, got caught and deleted it because trying to give a tone of plotting and malcontent. Just wanted to point out how willing you're accepting random shit as fact without giving it a second thought. But now that you noticed he didn't delete them you just decided to say he doesn't have the human decency to delete them. Amazing! Maybe you should read posts more carefully? If he had deleted them it would have shown that at least he realized how horrible his words were, this is much much worse... Good job don't even accept the fact you made something up, saying he deleted those posts. Deflect throw blame at my reading comprehension. You can't even accept that you made shit up. On May 03 2014 17:05 zeo wrote:On May 03 2014 16:59 AlternativeEgo wrote:
How does "horrible with at least 38 dead" translate to "those people deserved to die"? Yes of course, upon hearing that 38 people have died everyone's first reaction should be to downplay the involvement of the side we are supporting and insinuate it was the victims fault. I'm sure that's how a foreign minister should act. You're right he should act more like the Russian foreign minister who blames everything on the U.S. And affirm all those rising up against Kiev are not puppets of Russia and all those in Kiev puppets of the U.S. Just like Kerry saying all those rising against Kiev are puppets of Russia and all those in Kiev are not puppets of the U.S. of course this is what they would say. Are you trying to imply Russia's foreign minister is doing something uniquely sinister? Not really just pointing out how low the bar is for what foreign ministers say, frankly those tweets are fairly innocuous compared to US and Russian statements. Plus just trying to get zeo to accept he just makes up random shit all day and never accepts he can be wrong when he gets called out on it. He just continuously changes his tone just throwing stuff out there hoping things stick. It's not a conversation when that happens it's just someone trying to make others accept their worldview. There have been a couple things from Zeo that are completely wrong, but mostly his viewpoint from how I see it is exactly what I would expect from someone from a Russian point of view. In many ways Russia has been "wrong", but the West has been hypocritical through it all. Russia is doing what it's doing because the it considers what the West is doing as encroaching too close. An apt comparison would be the U.S. overthrowing the democratic government in Chile for a brutal dictator because it wouldn't let communism encroach so close. What Russia is doing now is "wrong" just like the U.S. was "wrong" then, but that's just geopolitics, and making it into a good vs evil narrative is a rather easy way to gather national popular sentiment. I have no access to Russian media but to Russians, they probably see the West as evil and them as good. This thread has not been a conversation for a long time. It's just people circlejerking on Zeo, I'm not surprised he doesn't own up to the times he has been shown to be wrong when everyone is so hostile. I'm sure on a Russia forum the lone American is getting similarly berated. It'd be nice is everyone tried to look at thing from the other perspective instead of buying into the good vs evil narrative, but I guess that's too much to hope for even on TL. If failing to check a source is a crime then I am small fry compared to the twitter spamming legion in this thread. Pages and pages of unverified opinions peddled as facts. Call them out on these Gebbles levels of disinformation and they only answer with ad hominems, fallacy fallacies, strawmans and any other number of stupid logical fallacies. Hm.. On May 03 2014 16:20 zeo wrote:
I wonder who the ten civilians killed last night in Kramatorsk by the maidan-controlled military are going to vote for. Hmmm.. Overnight, Russian media reported fighting near Kramatorsk, citing hospital sources as saying one person had been killed and nine wounded. (src)Okay. Let's put it this way, even if the tweets were wrong in some way, he's not making them up. You do. How exactly is that different? Maybe you missed the part were all journalists are barred from entering Kramatorsk http://rt.com/news/156552-kramatorsk-military-operation-resumed/Show nested quote + "Last night 10 people on our side died, they were all unarmed civilians,” the self-defense member, who wouldn’t disclose his identity, told RIA Novosti.
He added that 30 people were wounded after the Ukrainian army opened fire. NSFW + Show Spoiler +https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uuMxYuGdrw4 Glory to Ukraine indeed.
Interesting.
I thought we agreed on dismissing "facts" from rt.com? Now you quote them again, since it suits you, even though they actually contradict themselves?
edit: cute snarly comment btw, even though after a couple of times, it gets old.
|
On May 03 2014 21:46 m4ini wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2014 21:41 zeo wrote:On May 03 2014 21:31 m4ini wrote:On May 03 2014 18:31 zeo wrote:On May 03 2014 17:34 Feartheguru wrote:On May 03 2014 17:21 semantics wrote:On May 03 2014 17:18 Feartheguru wrote:On May 03 2014 17:14 semantics wrote:On May 03 2014 17:05 zeo wrote:On May 03 2014 16:59 AlternativeEgo wrote:
How does "horrible with at least 38 dead" translate to "those people deserved to die"? Yes of course, upon hearing that 38 people have died everyone's first reaction should be to downplay the involvement of the side we are supporting and insinuate it was the victims fault. I'm sure that's how a foreign minister should act. On May 03 2014 17:02 semantics wrote:[quote] That's not in question...You said he deleted tweets and went to damage control your page 496 has nothing confirming that happened All i wanted you to do is actually visit the twitter page and notice nothing was deleted yet you actively crafted the narrative that he said something bad, got caught and deleted it because trying to give a tone of plotting and malcontent. Just wanted to point out how willing you're accepting random shit as fact without giving it a second thought. But now that you noticed he didn't delete them you just decided to say he doesn't have the human decency to delete them. Amazing! Maybe you should read posts more carefully? If he had deleted them it would have shown that at least he realized how horrible his words were, this is much much worse... Good job don't even accept the fact you made something up, saying he deleted those posts. Deflect throw blame at my reading comprehension. You can't even accept that you made shit up. On May 03 2014 17:05 zeo wrote:On May 03 2014 16:59 AlternativeEgo wrote:
How does "horrible with at least 38 dead" translate to "those people deserved to die"? Yes of course, upon hearing that 38 people have died everyone's first reaction should be to downplay the involvement of the side we are supporting and insinuate it was the victims fault. I'm sure that's how a foreign minister should act. You're right he should act more like the Russian foreign minister who blames everything on the U.S. And affirm all those rising up against Kiev are not puppets of Russia and all those in Kiev puppets of the U.S. Just like Kerry saying all those rising against Kiev are puppets of Russia and all those in Kiev are not puppets of the U.S. of course this is what they would say. Are you trying to imply Russia's foreign minister is doing something uniquely sinister? Not really just pointing out how low the bar is for what foreign ministers say, frankly those tweets are fairly innocuous compared to US and Russian statements. Plus just trying to get zeo to accept he just makes up random shit all day and never accepts he can be wrong when he gets called out on it. He just continuously changes his tone just throwing stuff out there hoping things stick. It's not a conversation when that happens it's just someone trying to make others accept their worldview. There have been a couple things from Zeo that are completely wrong, but mostly his viewpoint from how I see it is exactly what I would expect from someone from a Russian point of view. In many ways Russia has been "wrong", but the West has been hypocritical through it all. Russia is doing what it's doing because the it considers what the West is doing as encroaching too close. An apt comparison would be the U.S. overthrowing the democratic government in Chile for a brutal dictator because it wouldn't let communism encroach so close. What Russia is doing now is "wrong" just like the U.S. was "wrong" then, but that's just geopolitics, and making it into a good vs evil narrative is a rather easy way to gather national popular sentiment. I have no access to Russian media but to Russians, they probably see the West as evil and them as good. This thread has not been a conversation for a long time. It's just people circlejerking on Zeo, I'm not surprised he doesn't own up to the times he has been shown to be wrong when everyone is so hostile. I'm sure on a Russia forum the lone American is getting similarly berated. It'd be nice is everyone tried to look at thing from the other perspective instead of buying into the good vs evil narrative, but I guess that's too much to hope for even on TL. If failing to check a source is a crime then I am small fry compared to the twitter spamming legion in this thread. Pages and pages of unverified opinions peddled as facts. Call them out on these Gebbles levels of disinformation and they only answer with ad hominems, fallacy fallacies, strawmans and any other number of stupid logical fallacies. Hm.. On May 03 2014 16:20 zeo wrote:
I wonder who the ten civilians killed last night in Kramatorsk by the maidan-controlled military are going to vote for. Hmmm.. Overnight, Russian media reported fighting near Kramatorsk, citing hospital sources as saying one person had been killed and nine wounded. (src)Okay. Let's put it this way, even if the tweets were wrong in some way, he's not making them up. You do. How exactly is that different? Maybe you missed the part were all journalists are barred from entering Kramatorsk http://rt.com/news/156552-kramatorsk-military-operation-resumed/ "Last night 10 people on our side died, they were all unarmed civilians,” the self-defense member, who wouldn’t disclose his identity, told RIA Novosti.
He added that 30 people were wounded after the Ukrainian army opened fire. NSFW + Show Spoiler +https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uuMxYuGdrw4 Glory to Ukraine indeed. Interesting. I thought we agreed on dismissing "facts" from rt.com? Now you quote them again, since it suits you, even though they actually contradict themselves? edit: cute snarly comment btw, even though after a couple of times, it gets old.
So any new information that comes along should be dismissed?
|
On May 03 2014 21:12 Xiphos wrote:
So many hatred against Russia even when for decades, USA have been destabilizing governments all over the world.
its very bad to covertly destabilize a country, maybe chop it up to pieces or install a puppet. USA done it, Russia@Georgia etc
its unimaginably worse to strait up annex your neighbor or part of them in today's world.
If USA had gone and try to annex Afghanistan or Iraq it would have had consequences too. Not to justify any nation's actions just pointing out there are worse things that Usa has done.
|
|
|
On May 03 2014 21:48 zeo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2014 21:46 m4ini wrote:On May 03 2014 21:41 zeo wrote:On May 03 2014 21:31 m4ini wrote:On May 03 2014 18:31 zeo wrote:On May 03 2014 17:34 Feartheguru wrote:On May 03 2014 17:21 semantics wrote:On May 03 2014 17:18 Feartheguru wrote:On May 03 2014 17:14 semantics wrote:On May 03 2014 17:05 zeo wrote:
[quote]
Yes of course, upon hearing that 38 people have died everyone's first reaction should be to downplay the involvement of the side we are supporting and insinuate it was the victims fault. I'm sure that's how a foreign minister should act.
[quote]
Maybe you should read posts more carefully? If he had deleted them it would have shown that at least he realized how horrible his words were, this is much much worse... Good job don't even accept the fact you made something up, saying he deleted those posts. Deflect throw blame at my reading comprehension. You can't even accept that you made shit up. On May 03 2014 17:05 zeo wrote:
[quote]
Yes of course, upon hearing that 38 people have died everyone's first reaction should be to downplay the involvement of the side we are supporting and insinuate it was the victims fault. I'm sure that's how a foreign minister should act. You're right he should act more like the Russian foreign minister who blames everything on the U.S. And affirm all those rising up against Kiev are not puppets of Russia and all those in Kiev puppets of the U.S. Just like Kerry saying all those rising against Kiev are puppets of Russia and all those in Kiev are not puppets of the U.S. of course this is what they would say. Are you trying to imply Russia's foreign minister is doing something uniquely sinister? Not really just pointing out how low the bar is for what foreign ministers say, frankly those tweets are fairly innocuous compared to US and Russian statements. Plus just trying to get zeo to accept he just makes up random shit all day and never accepts he can be wrong when he gets called out on it. He just continuously changes his tone just throwing stuff out there hoping things stick. It's not a conversation when that happens it's just someone trying to make others accept their worldview. There have been a couple things from Zeo that are completely wrong, but mostly his viewpoint from how I see it is exactly what I would expect from someone from a Russian point of view. In many ways Russia has been "wrong", but the West has been hypocritical through it all. Russia is doing what it's doing because the it considers what the West is doing as encroaching too close. An apt comparison would be the U.S. overthrowing the democratic government in Chile for a brutal dictator because it wouldn't let communism encroach so close. What Russia is doing now is "wrong" just like the U.S. was "wrong" then, but that's just geopolitics, and making it into a good vs evil narrative is a rather easy way to gather national popular sentiment. I have no access to Russian media but to Russians, they probably see the West as evil and them as good. This thread has not been a conversation for a long time. It's just people circlejerking on Zeo, I'm not surprised he doesn't own up to the times he has been shown to be wrong when everyone is so hostile. I'm sure on a Russia forum the lone American is getting similarly berated. It'd be nice is everyone tried to look at thing from the other perspective instead of buying into the good vs evil narrative, but I guess that's too much to hope for even on TL. If failing to check a source is a crime then I am small fry compared to the twitter spamming legion in this thread. Pages and pages of unverified opinions peddled as facts. Call them out on these Gebbles levels of disinformation and they only answer with ad hominems, fallacy fallacies, strawmans and any other number of stupid logical fallacies. Hm.. On May 03 2014 16:20 zeo wrote:
I wonder who the ten civilians killed last night in Kramatorsk by the maidan-controlled military are going to vote for. Hmmm.. Overnight, Russian media reported fighting near Kramatorsk, citing hospital sources as saying one person had been killed and nine wounded. (src)Okay. Let's put it this way, even if the tweets were wrong in some way, he's not making them up. You do. How exactly is that different? Maybe you missed the part were all journalists are barred from entering Kramatorsk http://rt.com/news/156552-kramatorsk-military-operation-resumed/ "Last night 10 people on our side died, they were all unarmed civilians,” the self-defense member, who wouldn’t disclose his identity, told RIA Novosti.
He added that 30 people were wounded after the Ukrainian army opened fire. NSFW + Show Spoiler +https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uuMxYuGdrw4 Glory to Ukraine indeed. Interesting. I thought we agreed on dismissing "facts" from rt.com? Now you quote them again, since it suits you, even though they actually contradict themselves? edit: cute snarly comment btw, even though after a couple of times, it gets old. So any new information that comes along should be dismissed?
What exactly is "the new information"? You mean the person who might as well not exist ("self defense member who doesn't want to say his name or function") has more value in his statement than the actual medics who collected the people?
That's pretty selective, don't you think? Even by your standards. Did you even read what i linked you (don't worry, it's rt.com, you won't get tainted by the evul western media)?
Reuters has just reported that a spokesman for Vladimir Putin, the Russian president, has said that Russia has lost control of pro-Russian rebels in the east and south of Ukraine.
Considering the russian gov. claimed to have no influence whatsoever on the activists, well, that's a bold statement. It's not inherently wrong, it's just funny to see "we lost control now" opposite to "we have no control" before.
|
On May 03 2014 21:55 m4ini wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2014 21:48 zeo wrote:On May 03 2014 21:46 m4ini wrote:On May 03 2014 21:41 zeo wrote:On May 03 2014 21:31 m4ini wrote:On May 03 2014 18:31 zeo wrote:On May 03 2014 17:34 Feartheguru wrote:On May 03 2014 17:21 semantics wrote:On May 03 2014 17:18 Feartheguru wrote:On May 03 2014 17:14 semantics wrote:
[quote]
Good job don't even accept the fact you made something up, saying he deleted those posts. Deflect throw blame at my reading comprehension. You can't even accept that you made shit up.
[quote]
You're right he should act more like the Russian foreign minister who blames everything on the U.S. And affirm all those rising up against Kiev are not puppets of Russia and all those in Kiev puppets of the U.S.
Just like Kerry saying all those rising against Kiev are puppets of Russia and all those in Kiev are not puppets of the U.S. of course this is what they would say. Are you trying to imply Russia's foreign minister is doing something uniquely sinister? Not really just pointing out how low the bar is for what foreign ministers say, frankly those tweets are fairly innocuous compared to US and Russian statements. Plus just trying to get zeo to accept he just makes up random shit all day and never accepts he can be wrong when he gets called out on it. He just continuously changes his tone just throwing stuff out there hoping things stick. It's not a conversation when that happens it's just someone trying to make others accept their worldview. There have been a couple things from Zeo that are completely wrong, but mostly his viewpoint from how I see it is exactly what I would expect from someone from a Russian point of view. In many ways Russia has been "wrong", but the West has been hypocritical through it all. Russia is doing what it's doing because the it considers what the West is doing as encroaching too close. An apt comparison would be the U.S. overthrowing the democratic government in Chile for a brutal dictator because it wouldn't let communism encroach so close. What Russia is doing now is "wrong" just like the U.S. was "wrong" then, but that's just geopolitics, and making it into a good vs evil narrative is a rather easy way to gather national popular sentiment. I have no access to Russian media but to Russians, they probably see the West as evil and them as good. This thread has not been a conversation for a long time. It's just people circlejerking on Zeo, I'm not surprised he doesn't own up to the times he has been shown to be wrong when everyone is so hostile. I'm sure on a Russia forum the lone American is getting similarly berated. It'd be nice is everyone tried to look at thing from the other perspective instead of buying into the good vs evil narrative, but I guess that's too much to hope for even on TL. If failing to check a source is a crime then I am small fry compared to the twitter spamming legion in this thread. Pages and pages of unverified opinions peddled as facts. Call them out on these Gebbles levels of disinformation and they only answer with ad hominems, fallacy fallacies, strawmans and any other number of stupid logical fallacies. Hm.. On May 03 2014 16:20 zeo wrote:
I wonder who the ten civilians killed last night in Kramatorsk by the maidan-controlled military are going to vote for. Hmmm.. Overnight, Russian media reported fighting near Kramatorsk, citing hospital sources as saying one person had been killed and nine wounded. (src)Okay. Let's put it this way, even if the tweets were wrong in some way, he's not making them up. You do. How exactly is that different? Maybe you missed the part were all journalists are barred from entering Kramatorsk http://rt.com/news/156552-kramatorsk-military-operation-resumed/ "Last night 10 people on our side died, they were all unarmed civilians,” the self-defense member, who wouldn’t disclose his identity, told RIA Novosti.
He added that 30 people were wounded after the Ukrainian army opened fire. NSFW + Show Spoiler +https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uuMxYuGdrw4 Glory to Ukraine indeed. Interesting. I thought we agreed on dismissing "facts" from rt.com? Now you quote them again, since it suits you, even though they actually contradict themselves? edit: cute snarly comment btw, even though after a couple of times, it gets old. So any new information that comes along should be dismissed? What exactly is "the new information"? You mean the person who might as well not exist ("self defense member who doesn't want to say his name or function") has more value in his statement than the actual medics who collected the people? That's pretty selective, don't you think? Even by your standards. Did you even read what i linked you (don't worry, it's rt.com, you won't get tainted by the evul western media)?
Guess we will have to wait a few more days for a definitive report to come out seeing as how journalists are barred from entering the city.
On May 03 2014 21:55 m4ini wrote:
Considering the russian gov. claimed to have no influence whatsoever on the activists, well, that's a bold statement. It's not inherently wrong, it's just funny to see "we lost control now" opposite to "we have no control" before.
He never said they lost control, that is the Guardian twisting words. He said whatever influence they might have been able to project onto the anti-government movement is now void because of the actions of the maidan supporters
|
On May 03 2014 21:59 zeo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2014 21:55 m4ini wrote:On May 03 2014 21:48 zeo wrote:On May 03 2014 21:46 m4ini wrote:On May 03 2014 21:41 zeo wrote:On May 03 2014 21:31 m4ini wrote:On May 03 2014 18:31 zeo wrote:On May 03 2014 17:34 Feartheguru wrote:On May 03 2014 17:21 semantics wrote:On May 03 2014 17:18 Feartheguru wrote:
[quote]
Just like Kerry saying all those rising against Kiev are puppets of Russia and all those in Kiev are not puppets of the U.S. of course this is what they would say. Are you trying to imply Russia's foreign minister is doing something uniquely sinister?
Not really just pointing out how low the bar is for what foreign ministers say, frankly those tweets are fairly innocuous compared to US and Russian statements. Plus just trying to get zeo to accept he just makes up random shit all day and never accepts he can be wrong when he gets called out on it. He just continuously changes his tone just throwing stuff out there hoping things stick. It's not a conversation when that happens it's just someone trying to make others accept their worldview. There have been a couple things from Zeo that are completely wrong, but mostly his viewpoint from how I see it is exactly what I would expect from someone from a Russian point of view. In many ways Russia has been "wrong", but the West has been hypocritical through it all. Russia is doing what it's doing because the it considers what the West is doing as encroaching too close. An apt comparison would be the U.S. overthrowing the democratic government in Chile for a brutal dictator because it wouldn't let communism encroach so close. What Russia is doing now is "wrong" just like the U.S. was "wrong" then, but that's just geopolitics, and making it into a good vs evil narrative is a rather easy way to gather national popular sentiment. I have no access to Russian media but to Russians, they probably see the West as evil and them as good. This thread has not been a conversation for a long time. It's just people circlejerking on Zeo, I'm not surprised he doesn't own up to the times he has been shown to be wrong when everyone is so hostile. I'm sure on a Russia forum the lone American is getting similarly berated. It'd be nice is everyone tried to look at thing from the other perspective instead of buying into the good vs evil narrative, but I guess that's too much to hope for even on TL. If failing to check a source is a crime then I am small fry compared to the twitter spamming legion in this thread. Pages and pages of unverified opinions peddled as facts. Call them out on these Gebbles levels of disinformation and they only answer with ad hominems, fallacy fallacies, strawmans and any other number of stupid logical fallacies. Hm.. On May 03 2014 16:20 zeo wrote:
I wonder who the ten civilians killed last night in Kramatorsk by the maidan-controlled military are going to vote for. Hmmm.. Overnight, Russian media reported fighting near Kramatorsk, citing hospital sources as saying one person had been killed and nine wounded. (src)Okay. Let's put it this way, even if the tweets were wrong in some way, he's not making them up. You do. How exactly is that different? Maybe you missed the part were all journalists are barred from entering Kramatorsk http://rt.com/news/156552-kramatorsk-military-operation-resumed/ "Last night 10 people on our side died, they were all unarmed civilians,” the self-defense member, who wouldn’t disclose his identity, told RIA Novosti.
He added that 30 people were wounded after the Ukrainian army opened fire. NSFW + Show Spoiler +https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uuMxYuGdrw4 Glory to Ukraine indeed. Interesting. I thought we agreed on dismissing "facts" from rt.com? Now you quote them again, since it suits you, even though they actually contradict themselves? edit: cute snarly comment btw, even though after a couple of times, it gets old. So any new information that comes along should be dismissed? What exactly is "the new information"? You mean the person who might as well not exist ("self defense member who doesn't want to say his name or function") has more value in his statement than the actual medics who collected the people? That's pretty selective, don't you think? Even by your standards. Did you even read what i linked you (don't worry, it's rt.com, you won't get tainted by the evul western media)? Guess we will have to wait a few more days for a definitive report to come out seeing as how journalists are barred from entering the city.
So you agree that your statement so far is "hearsay" at best, and far from a fact? Don't get me wrong, i do not claim that i know what happened, obviously. But since you butcher ghan for his "tweetspam" and "propaganda etc", do you really not see that you do exactly the same, just with sources which are more than shaky (as you even agreed to, do i really need to link you to the discussion we both had about rt.com?).
|
On May 03 2014 22:02 m4ini wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2014 21:59 zeo wrote:On May 03 2014 21:55 m4ini wrote:On May 03 2014 21:48 zeo wrote:On May 03 2014 21:46 m4ini wrote:On May 03 2014 21:41 zeo wrote:On May 03 2014 21:31 m4ini wrote:On May 03 2014 18:31 zeo wrote:On May 03 2014 17:34 Feartheguru wrote:On May 03 2014 17:21 semantics wrote:
[quote]
Not really just pointing out how low the bar is for what foreign ministers say, frankly those tweets are fairly innocuous compared to US and Russian statements. Plus just trying to get zeo to accept he just makes up random shit all day and never accepts he can be wrong when he gets called out on it. He just continuously changes his tone just throwing stuff out there hoping things stick. It's not a conversation when that happens it's just someone trying to make others accept their worldview. There have been a couple things from Zeo that are completely wrong, but mostly his viewpoint from how I see it is exactly what I would expect from someone from a Russian point of view. In many ways Russia has been "wrong", but the West has been hypocritical through it all. Russia is doing what it's doing because the it considers what the West is doing as encroaching too close. An apt comparison would be the U.S. overthrowing the democratic government in Chile for a brutal dictator because it wouldn't let communism encroach so close. What Russia is doing now is "wrong" just like the U.S. was "wrong" then, but that's just geopolitics, and making it into a good vs evil narrative is a rather easy way to gather national popular sentiment. I have no access to Russian media but to Russians, they probably see the West as evil and them as good. This thread has not been a conversation for a long time. It's just people circlejerking on Zeo, I'm not surprised he doesn't own up to the times he has been shown to be wrong when everyone is so hostile. I'm sure on a Russia forum the lone American is getting similarly berated. It'd be nice is everyone tried to look at thing from the other perspective instead of buying into the good vs evil narrative, but I guess that's too much to hope for even on TL. If failing to check a source is a crime then I am small fry compared to the twitter spamming legion in this thread. Pages and pages of unverified opinions peddled as facts. Call them out on these Gebbles levels of disinformation and they only answer with ad hominems, fallacy fallacies, strawmans and any other number of stupid logical fallacies. Hm.. On May 03 2014 16:20 zeo wrote:
I wonder who the ten civilians killed last night in Kramatorsk by the maidan-controlled military are going to vote for. Hmmm.. Overnight, Russian media reported fighting near Kramatorsk, citing hospital sources as saying one person had been killed and nine wounded. (src)Okay. Let's put it this way, even if the tweets were wrong in some way, he's not making them up. You do. How exactly is that different? Maybe you missed the part were all journalists are barred from entering Kramatorsk http://rt.com/news/156552-kramatorsk-military-operation-resumed/ "Last night 10 people on our side died, they were all unarmed civilians,” the self-defense member, who wouldn’t disclose his identity, told RIA Novosti.
He added that 30 people were wounded after the Ukrainian army opened fire. NSFW + Show Spoiler +https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uuMxYuGdrw4 Glory to Ukraine indeed. Interesting. I thought we agreed on dismissing "facts" from rt.com? Now you quote them again, since it suits you, even though they actually contradict themselves? edit: cute snarly comment btw, even though after a couple of times, it gets old. So any new information that comes along should be dismissed? What exactly is "the new information"? You mean the person who might as well not exist ("self defense member who doesn't want to say his name or function") has more value in his statement than the actual medics who collected the people? That's pretty selective, don't you think? Even by your standards. Did you even read what i linked you (don't worry, it's rt.com, you won't get tainted by the evul western media)? Guess we will have to wait a few more days for a definitive report to come out seeing as how journalists are barred from entering the city. So you agree that your statement so far is "hearsay" at best, and far from a fact? Don't get me wrong, i do not claim that i know what happened, obviously. But since you butcher ghan for his "tweetspam" and "propaganda etc", do you really not see that you do exactly the same, just with sources which are more than shaky (as you even agreed to, do i really need to link you to the discussion we both had about rt.com?).
No, I'm saying its about as verifiable as the reports of 1 person dead. In a few days when the city opens up again we can get concrete reports.
|
On May 03 2014 21:12 Xiphos wrote:
So many hatred against Russia even when for decades, USA have been destabilizing governments all over the world.
Un moral actions of one country does not excuse another country doing the same.
|
On May 03 2014 22:24 -Archangel- wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2014 21:12 Xiphos wrote:
So many hatred against Russia even when for decades, USA have been destabilizing governments all over the world. Un moral actions of one country does not excuse another country doing the same.
The name of the game has always been might makes right.
|
On May 03 2014 22:17 zeo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2014 22:02 m4ini wrote:On May 03 2014 21:59 zeo wrote:On May 03 2014 21:55 m4ini wrote:On May 03 2014 21:48 zeo wrote:On May 03 2014 21:46 m4ini wrote:On May 03 2014 21:41 zeo wrote:On May 03 2014 21:31 m4ini wrote:On May 03 2014 18:31 zeo wrote:On May 03 2014 17:34 Feartheguru wrote:
[quote]
There have been a couple things from Zeo that are completely wrong, but mostly his viewpoint from how I see it is exactly what I would expect from someone from a Russian point of view. In many ways Russia has been "wrong", but the West has been hypocritical through it all. Russia is doing what it's doing because the it considers what the West is doing as encroaching too close. An apt comparison would be the U.S. overthrowing the democratic government in Chile for a brutal dictator because it wouldn't let communism encroach so close. What Russia is doing now is "wrong" just like the U.S. was "wrong" then, but that's just geopolitics, and making it into a good vs evil narrative is a rather easy way to gather national popular sentiment. I have no access to Russian media but to Russians, they probably see the West as evil and them as good.
This thread has not been a conversation for a long time. It's just people circlejerking on Zeo, I'm not surprised he doesn't own up to the times he has been shown to be wrong when everyone is so hostile. I'm sure on a Russia forum the lone American is getting similarly berated. It'd be nice is everyone tried to look at thing from the other perspective instead of buying into the good vs evil narrative, but I guess that's too much to hope for even on TL.
If failing to check a source is a crime then I am small fry compared to the twitter spamming legion in this thread. Pages and pages of unverified opinions peddled as facts. Call them out on these Gebbles levels of disinformation and they only answer with ad hominems, fallacy fallacies, strawmans and any other number of stupid logical fallacies. Hm.. On May 03 2014 16:20 zeo wrote:
I wonder who the ten civilians killed last night in Kramatorsk by the maidan-controlled military are going to vote for. Hmmm.. Overnight, Russian media reported fighting near Kramatorsk, citing hospital sources as saying one person had been killed and nine wounded. (src)Okay. Let's put it this way, even if the tweets were wrong in some way, he's not making them up. You do. How exactly is that different? Maybe you missed the part were all journalists are barred from entering Kramatorsk http://rt.com/news/156552-kramatorsk-military-operation-resumed/ "Last night 10 people on our side died, they were all unarmed civilians,” the self-defense member, who wouldn’t disclose his identity, told RIA Novosti.
He added that 30 people were wounded after the Ukrainian army opened fire. NSFW + Show Spoiler +https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uuMxYuGdrw4 Glory to Ukraine indeed. Interesting. I thought we agreed on dismissing "facts" from rt.com? Now you quote them again, since it suits you, even though they actually contradict themselves? edit: cute snarly comment btw, even though after a couple of times, it gets old. So any new information that comes along should be dismissed? What exactly is "the new information"? You mean the person who might as well not exist ("self defense member who doesn't want to say his name or function") has more value in his statement than the actual medics who collected the people? That's pretty selective, don't you think? Even by your standards. Did you even read what i linked you (don't worry, it's rt.com, you won't get tainted by the evul western media)? Guess we will have to wait a few more days for a definitive report to come out seeing as how journalists are barred from entering the city. So you agree that your statement so far is "hearsay" at best, and far from a fact? Don't get me wrong, i do not claim that i know what happened, obviously. But since you butcher ghan for his "tweetspam" and "propaganda etc", do you really not see that you do exactly the same, just with sources which are more than shaky (as you even agreed to, do i really need to link you to the discussion we both had about rt.com?). No, I'm saying its about as verifiable as the reports of 1 person dead. In a few days when the city opens up again we can get concrete reports.
Apparently in your world "as verifiable as other reports" makes something a fact. You announced proudly that you're so open if you get proven wrong, yet you still try to argue with me that 10 deaths (as you used in a sarcastic comment towards another poster) is "as factual as we can get it right now". Wtf?
Oh, as a small bonbon for you, i call Ghanburgian out as well if he uses stupid sources like "Bild" etc. Happened more than once.
edit:
You were btw right with theguardian twisting words.
Russia, or anyone else, or even any country, has effectively lost influence over these people because it will be impossible to persuade them to disarm against the background of a direct threat to their lives," Peskov was quoted as saying.
Original reuters.com statement. At least they are still reliable.
|
casualty count at 46.
The prosecutor's office confirmed the death of 46 people in Odessa, all Identified - from the Odessa region
Attorney Odessa region Igor Borshulyak said that during yesterday's collision and fire in the House of Trade Unions killed 46 people, more than two hundred and asked for help in medical institutions, 20 of which - the police, eight people died from falls from height. This Borshulyak said during a briefing on the tragic events of May 2 in Odessa , reports Duma .
According Borshulyaka, human casualties could have been avoided if the law enforcement officers to fulfill their direct duties more efficiently and in a timely manner. On this fact the prosecutor's office opened a criminal proceeding. rbc.ua
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
