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Ukraine Crisis - Page 465

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There is a new policy in effect in this thread. Anyone not complying will be moderated.

New policy, please read before posting:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=21393711
PaleMan
Profile Joined October 2002
Russian Federation1953 Posts
April 30 2014 08:58 GMT
#9281
On April 30 2014 17:37 JudicatorHammurabi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 30 2014 17:32 PaleMan wrote:
i was never implying "maidan is homogenously fascist" - i always said there are idiots, bandits and nazis there
the video shows that this shit in Ukraine will never stop
they will find a million reasons to fight each other again and again

soon EU/US will kindly ask Russia to help

You're not serious, are you? >_> The last thing EU/US wants is for Russian power to grow. They will not under any circumstances "kindly ask Russia to help." The entire foreign policy for the past century is to "defeat" Russia! The 1990s were the greatest decade of this. Anything Russia could do to undermine the influence and hegemony of the EU/US is a sin worthy of hellfire in their eyes, and vice versa. How do you not see this?


too much sarcasm but you are right

the problem is after "west" "defeated" Russia they become too relaxed and too soft
do you think Obama or EU leaders will grew the balls to send some troops in Ukraine?
I doubt it

so when full scale civil war starts in Ukraine, who could stop it?
only time (c) Enya
name that country
Pure fan
Mc
Profile Joined March 2010
332 Posts
April 30 2014 09:07 GMT
#9282
@Roman666
They do appear to say "Donetsk Republic" and such, but that's mostly the leaders of the separatists. I don't recall a video of protestors chanting "Donetsk" or "Donbas". I think the "Donetsk" nation hood is mostly politics, to make them seem like truly independent of Russian support. How many videos have you seen of the protestors chanting "ROO-SI-JAA, ROOOO-SII-JAAA"? That's what the separatists usually chant.

There was a poll conducting in that region recently :
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/10/world/europe/ukraine-russia.html?_r=1

While only 4.7 percent of local residents want a separate Donetsk state, just over a third like to identify themselves as “citizens of Ukraine.” More prefer “Russian-speaking residents of Ukraine” or “residents of the Donets Basin,” according to a survey released Wednesday by the Donetsk Institute for Social Research and Political Analysis.


I'd say most of Donetsk-region citizens see themselves as Russians or Ukrainians ethnically, but alienation from the Kiev government makes them feel separate politically and thus only just over a third identify as "citizens of Ukraine". Basically, I agree with most of your post but I'd avoid saying that they feel "Donbassian" since that term has heavier connotations.
5hh.gg
Deleted User 183001
Profile Joined May 2011
2939 Posts
April 30 2014 09:09 GMT
#9283
On April 30 2014 17:58 PaleMan wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 30 2014 17:37 JudicatorHammurabi wrote:
On April 30 2014 17:32 PaleMan wrote:
i was never implying "maidan is homogenously fascist" - i always said there are idiots, bandits and nazis there
the video shows that this shit in Ukraine will never stop
they will find a million reasons to fight each other again and again

soon EU/US will kindly ask Russia to help

You're not serious, are you? >_> The last thing EU/US wants is for Russian power to grow. They will not under any circumstances "kindly ask Russia to help." The entire foreign policy for the past century is to "defeat" Russia! The 1990s were the greatest decade of this. Anything Russia could do to undermine the influence and hegemony of the EU/US is a sin worthy of hellfire in their eyes, and vice versa. How do you not see this?


too much sarcasm but you are right

the problem is after "west" "defeated" Russia they become too relaxed and too soft
do you think Obama or EU leaders will grew the balls to send some troops in Ukraine?
I doubt it

so when full scale civil war starts in Ukraine, who could stop it?
only time (c) Enya
name that country

Full scale civil war seems very improbable at this time. But the reality of Russian "intervention" to stop a hypothetical civil war would just be to absorb the country. Let's not fool ourselves with the sugary rhetoric of politicians.

Still, I don't see what Putin was thinking that compromising the economy was worth any of this. A wiser man would have waited a decade before getting into any of these shenanigans. Russia is still recovering economically, socially, infrastructurally, etc. from the 90s. I have only heard the most horrific of things from that decade. Don't you think any self-conscious, intelligent person would do everything in their power to work towards getting as far away from that era as possible? Apparently not Putin and Friends.
Deleted User 137586
Profile Joined January 2011
7859 Posts
April 30 2014 09:14 GMT
#9284
Short term goals of Putin can be explained with polls:


Cry 'havoc' and let slip the dogs of war
PaleMan
Profile Joined October 2002
Russian Federation1953 Posts
April 30 2014 09:18 GMT
#9285
On April 30 2014 18:09 JudicatorHammurabi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 30 2014 17:58 PaleMan wrote:
On April 30 2014 17:37 JudicatorHammurabi wrote:
On April 30 2014 17:32 PaleMan wrote:
i was never implying "maidan is homogenously fascist" - i always said there are idiots, bandits and nazis there
the video shows that this shit in Ukraine will never stop
they will find a million reasons to fight each other again and again

soon EU/US will kindly ask Russia to help

You're not serious, are you? >_> The last thing EU/US wants is for Russian power to grow. They will not under any circumstances "kindly ask Russia to help." The entire foreign policy for the past century is to "defeat" Russia! The 1990s were the greatest decade of this. Anything Russia could do to undermine the influence and hegemony of the EU/US is a sin worthy of hellfire in their eyes, and vice versa. How do you not see this?


too much sarcasm but you are right

the problem is after "west" "defeated" Russia they become too relaxed and too soft
do you think Obama or EU leaders will grew the balls to send some troops in Ukraine?
I doubt it

so when full scale civil war starts in Ukraine, who could stop it?
only time (c) Enya
name that country

Full scale civil war seems very improbable at this time. But the reality of Russian "intervention" to stop a hypothetical civil war would just be to absorb the country. Let's not fool ourselves with the sugary rhetoric of politicians.

Still, I don't see what Putin was thinking that compromising the economy was worth any of this. A wiser man would have waited a decade before getting into any of these shenanigans. Russia is still recovering economically, socially, infrastructurally, etc. from the 90s. I have only heard the most horrific of things from that decade. Don't you think any self-conscious, intelligent person would do everything in their power to work towards getting as far away from that era as possible? Apparently not Putin and Friends.


i don't think Putin has this decade and he knows it, but he wants to be mentioned in texrbooks as "defender of russians" and "reclaimer of russian lands"

Pure fan
Deleted User 183001
Profile Joined May 2011
2939 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-04-30 09:24:59
April 30 2014 09:20 GMT
#9286
On April 30 2014 18:14 Ghanburighan wrote:
Short term goals of Putin can be explained with polls:

https://twitter.com/electionista/status/461417076167819264

Didn't realize nationalism was such a monumentally significant thing in Russia that the Russian version of " 'Murica " as is going on right now is applauded.

Already overwhelmingly popular, there's no practical need for short-term goals of this nature. But, I don't know the inner workings of any political administration, so I can only guess at their reasoning.

On April 30 2014 18:18 PaleMan wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 30 2014 18:09 JudicatorHammurabi wrote:
On April 30 2014 17:58 PaleMan wrote:
On April 30 2014 17:37 JudicatorHammurabi wrote:
On April 30 2014 17:32 PaleMan wrote:
i was never implying "maidan is homogenously fascist" - i always said there are idiots, bandits and nazis there
the video shows that this shit in Ukraine will never stop
they will find a million reasons to fight each other again and again

soon EU/US will kindly ask Russia to help

You're not serious, are you? >_> The last thing EU/US wants is for Russian power to grow. They will not under any circumstances "kindly ask Russia to help." The entire foreign policy for the past century is to "defeat" Russia! The 1990s were the greatest decade of this. Anything Russia could do to undermine the influence and hegemony of the EU/US is a sin worthy of hellfire in their eyes, and vice versa. How do you not see this?


too much sarcasm but you are right

the problem is after "west" "defeated" Russia they become too relaxed and too soft
do you think Obama or EU leaders will grew the balls to send some troops in Ukraine?
I doubt it

so when full scale civil war starts in Ukraine, who could stop it?
only time (c) Enya
name that country

Full scale civil war seems very improbable at this time. But the reality of Russian "intervention" to stop a hypothetical civil war would just be to absorb the country. Let's not fool ourselves with the sugary rhetoric of politicians.

Still, I don't see what Putin was thinking that compromising the economy was worth any of this. A wiser man would have waited a decade before getting into any of these shenanigans. Russia is still recovering economically, socially, infrastructurally, etc. from the 90s. I have only heard the most horrific of things from that decade. Don't you think any self-conscious, intelligent person would do everything in their power to work towards getting as far away from that era as possible? Apparently not Putin and Friends.


i don't think Putin has this decade and he knows it, but he wants to be mentioned in texrbooks as "defender of russians" and "reclaimer of russian lands"


Maybe it's the graduate student engineer in me, but I think "Reclaimer of the economy" and "Developer of the sciences" are significantly better. Besides his wars, don't you know recall all the things that Peter the Great is famous for? Why cannot Putin follow this model of leadership and priorities?
Deleted User 137586
Profile Joined January 2011
7859 Posts
April 30 2014 09:23 GMT
#9287
On April 30 2014 18:20 JudicatorHammurabi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 30 2014 18:14 Ghanburighan wrote:
Short term goals of Putin can be explained with polls:

https://twitter.com/electionista/status/461417076167819264

Didn't realize nationalism was such a monumentally significant thing in Russia that the Russian version of " 'Murica " as is going on right now is applauded.

Already overwhelmingly popular, there's no practical need for short-term goals of this nature. But, I don't know the inner workings of any political administration, so I can only guess at their reasoning.


Kremlinology is tricky, but Putin's overwhelming popularity is one of the few things keep the powers that be where they are in Russia. Hovering near 50% as Putin was recently was seen as a major problem in Russia, there were opposition meetings, threats of losing elections, etc. This was seen as unacceptable to Putin. But, as I have posted before, there is also a major long term goal to this, and that's to change the rules in international law.
Cry 'havoc' and let slip the dogs of war
Deleted User 183001
Profile Joined May 2011
2939 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-04-30 09:34:24
April 30 2014 09:30 GMT
#9288
On April 30 2014 18:23 Ghanburighan wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 30 2014 18:20 JudicatorHammurabi wrote:
On April 30 2014 18:14 Ghanburighan wrote:
Short term goals of Putin can be explained with polls:

https://twitter.com/electionista/status/461417076167819264

Didn't realize nationalism was such a monumentally significant thing in Russia that the Russian version of " 'Murica " as is going on right now is applauded.

Already overwhelmingly popular, there's no practical need for short-term goals of this nature. But, I don't know the inner workings of any political administration, so I can only guess at their reasoning.


Kremlinology is tricky, but Putin's overwhelming popularity is one of the few things keep the powers that be where they are in Russia. Hovering near 50% as Putin was recently was seen as a major problem in Russia, there were opposition meetings, threats of losing elections, etc. This was seen as unacceptable to Putin. But, as I have posted before, there is also a major long term goal to this, and that's to change the rules in international law.

Good point overall, but see this begs the question of losing the election to whom?? The Communist party? They're the second biggest party in Russia, but leagues below United Russia, and Heaven forbid there's communism again. Who else is in the Duma? The Slavic nationalistic LDPR? :S
Then there's Just Russia but I don't know much about them.

50% is still extremely good, especially in a country that doesn't have infinite money and all sorts of other things that make people happy. US Congress is somewhere around 10% and Obama is down to 41%, largely inflated by the followers of his popularity cult, party partisans, and some minorities who make up his unwavering support at that.
Deleted User 137586
Profile Joined January 2011
7859 Posts
April 30 2014 09:33 GMT
#9289
On April 30 2014 18:30 JudicatorHammurabi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 30 2014 18:23 Ghanburighan wrote:
On April 30 2014 18:20 JudicatorHammurabi wrote:
On April 30 2014 18:14 Ghanburighan wrote:
Short term goals of Putin can be explained with polls:

https://twitter.com/electionista/status/461417076167819264

Didn't realize nationalism was such a monumentally significant thing in Russia that the Russian version of " 'Murica " as is going on right now is applauded.

Already overwhelmingly popular, there's no practical need for short-term goals of this nature. But, I don't know the inner workings of any political administration, so I can only guess at their reasoning.


Kremlinology is tricky, but Putin's overwhelming popularity is one of the few things keep the powers that be where they are in Russia. Hovering near 50% as Putin was recently was seen as a major problem in Russia, there were opposition meetings, threats of losing elections, etc. This was seen as unacceptable to Putin. But, as I have posted before, there is also a major long term goal to this, and that's to change the rules in international law.

Good point overall, but see this begs the question of losing the election to whom?? The Communist party? They're the second biggest party in Russia, but leagues below United Russia, and Heaven forbid there's communism again. Who else is in the Duma? The Slavic nationalistic LDPR? :S
Then there's Just Russia but I don't know much about them.

50% is still extremely good. US Congress is somewhere around 10% and Obama is down to 41%, largely inflated by the followers of his popularity cult and some minorities who make up his unwavering support.


For example, Navalny almost produced an upset at the elections for Moscow's mayor. He probably did, as the elections were considered fraudulent, and it was suspected that his votes were discounted. While opposition parties are harassed to the max, that doesn't mean that people opposed to Putin don't threaten to rally against some independent candidates.
Cry 'havoc' and let slip the dogs of war
Deleted User 183001
Profile Joined May 2011
2939 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-04-30 09:41:25
April 30 2014 09:40 GMT
#9290
On April 30 2014 18:33 Ghanburighan wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 30 2014 18:30 JudicatorHammurabi wrote:
On April 30 2014 18:23 Ghanburighan wrote:
On April 30 2014 18:20 JudicatorHammurabi wrote:
On April 30 2014 18:14 Ghanburighan wrote:
Short term goals of Putin can be explained with polls:

https://twitter.com/electionista/status/461417076167819264

Didn't realize nationalism was such a monumentally significant thing in Russia that the Russian version of " 'Murica " as is going on right now is applauded.

Already overwhelmingly popular, there's no practical need for short-term goals of this nature. But, I don't know the inner workings of any political administration, so I can only guess at their reasoning.


Kremlinology is tricky, but Putin's overwhelming popularity is one of the few things keep the powers that be where they are in Russia. Hovering near 50% as Putin was recently was seen as a major problem in Russia, there were opposition meetings, threats of losing elections, etc. This was seen as unacceptable to Putin. But, as I have posted before, there is also a major long term goal to this, and that's to change the rules in international law.

Good point overall, but see this begs the question of losing the election to whom?? The Communist party? They're the second biggest party in Russia, but leagues below United Russia, and Heaven forbid there's communism again. Who else is in the Duma? The Slavic nationalistic LDPR? :S
Then there's Just Russia but I don't know much about them.

50% is still extremely good. US Congress is somewhere around 10% and Obama is down to 41%, largely inflated by the followers of his popularity cult and some minorities who make up his unwavering support.


For example, Navalny almost produced an upset at the elections for Moscow's mayor. He probably did, as the elections were considered fraudulent, and it was suspected that his votes were discounted. While opposition parties are harassed to the max, that doesn't mean that people opposed to Putin don't threaten to rally against some independent candidates.

Same guy has allegedly been involved in fraud and whatnot. I don't know if it's entirely true. He's not from one of the big parties, which is surprising for how he did, even if it isn't for a national political position. But as far as the national politics go, you gotta consider, when your big choices are United Russia, Communism, and Fascism, well what do you go with?

It would probably be better if United Russia split into two extremely similar parties that do nothing but bitch at each other and in some way or another drive all the other parties into complete obscurity. At least they wouldn't have Fascists and Communists to worry about, but they'd have clowns for their govt.
Derez
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Netherlands6068 Posts
April 30 2014 09:40 GMT
#9291
There's also the idea that letting your population focus on a foreign issue distracts from internal issues. To my knowledge, Putin's popularity is largely based on the restoration of Russia as a great power, because for the average Russian he hasn't achieved much.
Deleted User 183001
Profile Joined May 2011
2939 Posts
April 30 2014 09:43 GMT
#9292
On April 30 2014 18:40 Derez wrote:
There's also the idea that letting your population focus on a foreign issue distracts from internal issues. To my knowledge, Putin's popularity is largely based on the restoration of Russia as a great power, because for the average Russian he hasn't achieved much.

That idea is true. However, Russia now compared to Russia in 2000 are two entirely different places. Regardless of anything, for the average Russian, his administration has worked miracles.
Deleted User 137586
Profile Joined January 2011
7859 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-04-30 09:44:54
April 30 2014 09:44 GMT
#9293
On April 30 2014 18:40 JudicatorHammurabi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 30 2014 18:33 Ghanburighan wrote:
On April 30 2014 18:30 JudicatorHammurabi wrote:
On April 30 2014 18:23 Ghanburighan wrote:
On April 30 2014 18:20 JudicatorHammurabi wrote:
On April 30 2014 18:14 Ghanburighan wrote:
Short term goals of Putin can be explained with polls:

https://twitter.com/electionista/status/461417076167819264

Didn't realize nationalism was such a monumentally significant thing in Russia that the Russian version of " 'Murica " as is going on right now is applauded.

Already overwhelmingly popular, there's no practical need for short-term goals of this nature. But, I don't know the inner workings of any political administration, so I can only guess at their reasoning.


Kremlinology is tricky, but Putin's overwhelming popularity is one of the few things keep the powers that be where they are in Russia. Hovering near 50% as Putin was recently was seen as a major problem in Russia, there were opposition meetings, threats of losing elections, etc. This was seen as unacceptable to Putin. But, as I have posted before, there is also a major long term goal to this, and that's to change the rules in international law.

Good point overall, but see this begs the question of losing the election to whom?? The Communist party? They're the second biggest party in Russia, but leagues below United Russia, and Heaven forbid there's communism again. Who else is in the Duma? The Slavic nationalistic LDPR? :S
Then there's Just Russia but I don't know much about them.

50% is still extremely good. US Congress is somewhere around 10% and Obama is down to 41%, largely inflated by the followers of his popularity cult and some minorities who make up his unwavering support.


For example, Navalny almost produced an upset at the elections for Moscow's mayor. He probably did, as the elections were considered fraudulent, and it was suspected that his votes were discounted. While opposition parties are harassed to the max, that doesn't mean that people opposed to Putin don't threaten to rally against some independent candidates.

Same guy has allegedly been involved in fraud and whatnot. I don't know if it's entirely true. He's not from one of the big parties, which is surprising for how he did, even if it isn't for a national political position. But as far as the national politics go, you gotta consider, when your big choices are United Russia, Communism, and Fascism, well what do you go with?

It would probably be better if United Russia split into two extremely similar parties that do nothing but bitch at each other and in some way or another drive all the other parties into complete obscurity. At least they wouldn't have Fascists and Communists to worry about, but they'd have clowns for their govt.


*Sigh* You're describing the status quo. Please look up the parties in the duma and their creation. They're all just puppets of One Russia.
Cry 'havoc' and let slip the dogs of war
Mc
Profile Joined March 2010
332 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-04-30 09:53:44
April 30 2014 09:51 GMT
#9294
@Judicator
Rising gas prices have worked miracles. I think Russia would have seen the "boom" of the 2000's regardless of who was in power at the top.
@Ghanburighan
I don't really think that there ever was really a chance of any opposition taking over Putin, even when support was hovering at 50%. But now, he has done a good job cementing himself as dictator for probably at least another decade..

edit: Ghan, you never really stated that the opposition has a chance of taking over.
5hh.gg
Derez
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Netherlands6068 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-04-30 10:36:59
April 30 2014 10:35 GMT
#9295
On April 30 2014 18:43 JudicatorHammurabi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 30 2014 18:40 Derez wrote:
There's also the idea that letting your population focus on a foreign issue distracts from internal issues. To my knowledge, Putin's popularity is largely based on the restoration of Russia as a great power, because for the average Russian he hasn't achieved much.

That idea is true. However, Russia now compared to Russia in 2000 are two entirely different places. Regardless of anything, for the average Russian, his administration has worked miracles.

It cashed in on a gas boom but the benefits don't really seem to be going to the population, suppressed civil rights, taken care of any independent media and mollified any opposition. And while average wages increased, so did inequality and average wages are still well below the polish/baltic regions. There's a great amount of discontent in Russian society (especially among the more educated/wealthy) with the way putin's administration is handling things (just look at the 2011-2013 protests), if Russians actually were to focus on those issues who knows what happens. Much better for Putin to create some kind of external enemy.
Dagobert
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Netherlands1858 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-04-30 10:52:40
April 30 2014 10:47 GMT
#9296
There's a German video that offers an interesting perspective:

+ Show Spoiler +


I could not find a video of similar quality in English, the closest one seems to be

+ Show Spoiler +


but it mainly focuses on history and government politics. This next video focuses more on (energy) economy:
+ Show Spoiler +


Concerning the video's source... if anyone wants to fact-check, that would be nice.


In summary, it's complex. Focus on the actions, less on the individuals.
Mc
Profile Joined March 2010
332 Posts
April 30 2014 11:29 GMT
#9297
@Dagobert
The first video seems to give a good historical background to the situation in Ukraine.
The 3rd video is a lot of bullshit in my opinion. It tries to paint EuroMaidan as some sort of US conspiracy.

"Why the West contrived this revolt, and now we've had this confirmed by released documents proving that USAID bla bla bla"

Has USAID $$ been sent to Ukrainian pro-democracy/development groups? Yeah. Are those groups for closer ties to the West? Of course. Was EuroMaidan contrived by the West. Bullshit - it's ignoring Ukraine's complex history and the actual desire of many in W. Ukraine to be a "normal" European country. You could say that the West "provoked" EuroMaidan by offering an association agreement. But it's just as much Yanukovych's fault - he gave the impression to his own country that Ukraine would sign with the EU.

He's trying to make this into simply a battle between USA/EU and Russia, while ignoring that Ukraine is the most important player in this conflict. I'd say it's this whole crisis is the inner conflict of Ukraine, with two outside players playing significant roles. The EU/USA supporting one part, and Russia the other. However, Russia is supporting the pro-Russia Ukraine much more aggressively (like invading Crimea, massing troops on the border, blatant lying propaganda war). The West is supporting Ukraine via economic offers, public support, economic aid to pro-Western/pro-Democratic organizations, etc.

I also don't think the fact that Ukraine is the transit point for gas is as significant as the video claims. Yes, it is significant but it isn't as if a pro-West Ukraine will free Europe from dependence on Russian energy. Also, the shale gas thing in Ukraine is just a pipe-dream. Ukraine's infrastructure is way too messed up to develop that industry, and the availability of shale gas is overstated. Poland has a similar situation to Ukraine with shale gas fields, but nothing has ever come of it's aspirations to exploit shale gas. It isn't economically viable given Russia's cheap natural gas.
5hh.gg
sgtnoobkilla
Profile Joined July 2012
Australia249 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-04-30 12:51:34
April 30 2014 12:36 GMT
#9298
[image loading]

Too good.

On April 30 2014 18:30 JudicatorHammurabi wrote:
Good point overall, but see this begs the question of losing the election to whom?? The Communist party? They're the second biggest party in Russia, but leagues below United Russia, and Heaven forbid there's communism again. Who else is in the Duma? The Slavic nationalistic LDPR? :S
Then there's Just Russia but I don't know much about them.


You will never see a Communist Russia again in this century, if ever. The only reason why the CPSU seemed a popular choice at one point was because of the Yeltsin/Medevdev years.
Don't play with your food unless it plays with you first.
Deleted User 137586
Profile Joined January 2011
7859 Posts
April 30 2014 14:33 GMT
#9299
While we've had a turn towards (educational) humour, allow me to post the following article:


How I learned to stop worrying, and love what's happening in Russia

Members of the Russian opposition unite! You have nothing but your composure to lose!

To be fair, Russia's a surprising and dispiriting place these days, especially if you're in the opposition. You turn around for five minutes, and Russia has suddenly grown a new peninsula. You go to bed a “liberast”—the Kremlin bots’ preferred nomenclature for us, a hybrid of “liberal” and “pederast”—and wake up a “national traitor,” a “yid-fascist,” or a member of a “fifth column.” You open Facebook and see people dumping boiling cauldrons of emotion on those who dare to criticize our imperial achievements.

Still, my fellow liberals are doggedly hanging on to hope: Open the pages of Vedomosti, the last independent Russian newspaper, and see yet another public intellectual sinking his teeth into Putin and counting the days until his regime collapses.

And yet, stubbornly, it doesn’t collapse. In fact, it only gets stronger, day by day. Putin’s approval rating is through the roof, while Russia’s standing the world is slipping steadily in the opposite direction, as if these numbers are being ladled from the same pot: The more one gets, the less is left for the other.

It’s hard to observe what’s happening with the cold, rational eye of a cyborg. I can’t do it. At first, I laughed. Then, when it stopped being funny, I got angry. I protested, I gloated, I despaired and gave up, I flew into a rage—and not one of these reactions helped me make peace with Russia’s new political reality.

The solution came to me suddenly, and it’s such a good one that now when I look at the news each morning, instead of muttering “motherfucker” to myself, I gleefully rub my hands together.



I make bets. I look at all the possible ways a situation can unravel, pick the worst one, and make a bet on it. Last fall, I won the entire wardrobe—every single piece of clothing, down to the last T-shirt—of the well-known Russian journalist Oleg Kashin. He was sure, you see, that opposition leader Alexey Navalny had a chance of winning Moscow’s mayoral race. I, on the other hand, bet my collection of sandals that Navalny wouldn’t even be allowed into a run-off with the Kremlin candidate.

I was right.

Oleg acknowledged my victory, but refused to hand over the loot. Ever since, I’ve been stalking him on Instagram, commenting on every photograph he posts as follows: “What a nice shirt!”

Recently, I had an interesting debate with an acquaintance who works for one of the ministries of the Russian Federation. I was asking him about the inner workings of the executive branch, about the motives of bureaucrats of various ranks, about Russia’s attempt to boost its attractiveness for investors, and about how a normal person working there refrains from standing up in the middle of a meeting and jumping out the window.

“It’s not so simple,” my interlocutor said, hinting at the existence of reasonable people in the government. “Many people understand that without radical liberalization, the economy won’t rebound. I retain my faith in the sanity of people up there.”

Because I’ve spent the last few years looking for sanity up there and finding only a heady mix of idiocy, vanity, bald-faced lies, and complete incompetence, I immediately suggested a bet.

“Do you want to bet,” I asked, “that there won’t be any liberalization of the economy? That in its place, we’ll get only isolation and five-year plans?"

“I still think there will be liberalization.”

“Then I bet you a case of Veuve Clicquot Rosé Brüt that, in six months, the economy will be up shit creek.”

What’s amazing is that I win regardless of the outcome. If I’m right—which in itself is a wonderful psychological reward—and we’re about to experience a worsening economy, then my deteriorating living standards will be brightened by twelve bottles of champagne. If I’m wrong, the Kremlin will stop hammering nails into the coffin of the economy to the tune of near-Soviet rhetoric. Maybe they will even start stimulating the thing. I’m ready to spend $700 to see such a positive outcome, but just in case, I’ve already found the spot in my apartment where I plan on putting my Brüt.



The topics for bets are endless, though this is, of course, a tragedy:

“Wanna bet that they’re going to pass a law that defines bloggers as news organizations, which will introduce de facto censorship?”

“I doubt it. It’s such a spectacularly stupid law, they haven’t thought it through, it’ll be unenforceable.”

They passed the law on April 23, and now I’m not a blogger, but a media magnate.

“Wanna bet that Pavel Durov”—CEO of VKontakte, Russia’s version of Facebook—“will be forced out?”

On April 24, Durov was fired by the board and fled the country.

“Wanna bet that, in half a year, they’ll ban Facebook and Twitter in Russia?”

So far, I’ve only won Kashin’s stuff. The other bets are longer-term, anywhere from six months to a year. But I don’t discount the possibility that, by the end of the year, either the government leaves the Internet, the NGOs, and small business alone, or I’ll have a free ticket to New York, a fancy new set of badminton rackets, a Persian rug, and a dozen new books.

Where do I derive such confidence in my future winnings? From history, from the papers, from backroom conversations, from my own sad experience. I’d be thrilled to be wrong; my loss would be much more profitable than a win. But take a look around, listen to what people are saying, analyze the motives of those calling the shots—you know what the odds are.

Why don’t my sparring partners believe in the onset of the shitstorm and prefer to defend the sunny side? Because it’s terrible to live with the knowledge that the government is consciously cutting you off from your network of peers, destroying your life’s work, stopping you from doing what you love, not letting you out of the country—I have a bet on this, too, that soon they will introduce Soviet-era exit visas—and questioning your continued existence in Russia-not-Europe. (For this is the latest conception of our country: Russia isn’t Europe.) Russian liberals don’t want to make peace with the reality of Putin’s revanchist wave. They’re not even ready to acknowledge that there aren’t very many liberals like them and that no one needs them.

And yet they must know it, deep down. I fear I won’t be able to get rich on the collapse of the Russian state because the optimists and the patriots are reluctant gamblers, even though the optimists talk a good talk about how great everything is going to be, about how we’re moving forward, and about how the whole world envies us. For some reason, most of them are not ready to put a single ruble behind their wager that their beloved government will blossom. Instead, I’m increasingly resigned to making bets with like-minded friends and acquaintances who wager on an optimistic prognosis not out of robust confidence, but despair. Because, they think, it just can’t be that everything will be that bad.

Wanna bet?
Source.
Cry 'havoc' and let slip the dogs of war
Dav1oN
Profile Joined January 2012
Ukraine3164 Posts
April 30 2014 15:16 GMT
#9300
I found this pic so funny :D

[image loading]

Srsly, will this ever end in my country? All that situation is too annoying, am tired of this completely.
In memory of Geoff "iNcontroL" Robinson 11.09.1985 - 21.07.2019 A tribute to incredible man, embodiment of joy, esports titan, starcraft community pillar all in one. You will always be remembered!
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