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Godwrath
Spain10168 Posts
It gets better, read some of the comments below Kiev nazi just announced that they decide to build a a concentartion camps similar to Hitler's Osvencim, Maidanek, Treblinka to burn Russians and anti-Kiev Ukrainians in stoves just like German nazi did with 6 million jews in 1941-1945 U S Congress approved $1B for this purposes and IMF is planning for addituonal $15B loan for the same. | ||
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Acertos
France852 Posts
On April 14 2014 05:49 Cheerio wrote: http://www.rferl.org/content/ukraine-turchynov-response-east/25331783.html Dear god, Lavrov and Putin should go f*** themselves. Greater economical sanctions should be put in place along with military and economical support to Ukraine (no intervention but still US and EU should send some weapons and money there). It's the biggest crisis involving Russia since the end of USSR. It's funny how lust for an ancient and strange glory leads to that kind of shit. Mindless nationalisms seems to be as harmful as mindless religions. The end of history is not near and on the contrary pretty far away it seems | ||
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Random()
Kyrgyz Republic1462 Posts
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22705 Posts
On April 14 2014 06:40 Random() wrote: So the US blames Russia for inciting unrest, which is probably true. Russia blames the US for condoning violence against the protesters, which is probably also true. Meanwhile Ukraine is falling into a civil war thanks to both sides. Humans suck. How does saying "yes you should deal with those soldiers taking over your buildings" equal sending said soldiers? | ||
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Deleted User 183001
2939 Posts
On April 14 2014 06:40 Random() wrote: So the US blames Russia for inciting unrest, which is probably true. Russia blames the US for condoning violence against the protesters, which is probably also true. Meanwhile Ukraine is falling into a civil war thanks to both sides. Humans suck. I don't know about "the US condoning violence against the protesters" in eastern Ukrainian cities (I haven't heard about this being the case), but overall, if you haven't noticed yet, Ukraine is the rope in a political tug-of-war. My condolences to the Ukrainian people, but no one involved gives an actual fuck about them, except maybe some regular Russian and Slavic people because of the many cultural, religious, historical, family, etc. ties that exist. A very sad situation. On April 14 2014 06:43 Gorsameth wrote: How does saying "yes you should deal with those soldiers taking over your buildings" equal sending said soldiers? When the hell did random armed protesters become rank-and-file Russian soldiers? EDIT: Some clarification before there's arguments over what proper word to use. I use the term "protesters" in light of the fact they're technically protesting (and considering there are many unarmed protesters who aren't causing trouble). "Armed" explicitly means they have weapons, and implicitly that they're causing insurrection (which they are). Call them insurrectionsts, insurgents, etc. Such terms all apply. | ||
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Fjodorov
5007 Posts
On April 14 2014 06:40 Random() wrote: So the US blames Russia for inciting unrest, which is probably true. Russia blames the US for condoning violence against the protesters, which is probably also true. Meanwhile Ukraine is falling into a civil war thanks to both sides. Humans suck. Protesters? Is that what russia would call armed militia groups taking over government buildings in russia? | ||
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Dav1oN
Ukraine3164 Posts
On April 14 2014 06:45 JudicatorHammurabi wrote: I don't know about "the US condoning violence against the protesters" in eastern Ukrainian cities (I haven't heard about this being the case), but overall, if you haven't noticed yet, Ukraine is the rope in a political tug-of-war. My condolences to the Ukrainian people, but no one involved gives an actual fuck about them, except maybe some regular Russian and Slavic people because of the many cultural, religious, historical, family, etc. ties that exist. A very sad situation. When the hell did random armed protesters become rank-and-file Russian soldiers? Better get ready for ukrainian refugees :/ P.S. I hope it not gonna happen anytime tho | ||
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radscorpion9
Canada2252 Posts
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Sent.
Poland9336 Posts
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radscorpion9
Canada2252 Posts
On April 14 2014 06:54 Sent. wrote: You want us to invade Kaliningrad or what? There is no magic way to say 'enough is enough' other than declaring war and we all know it's not going to happen. Don't have to declare war, but at least use your military to help protect these communities under attack by militants. It just seems like until now, Ukraine just rolls over whenever a militant group appears in a city. If you keep doing that, it'll keep getting worse. That level of impotence is just sad to see | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22705 Posts
On April 14 2014 06:52 radscorpion9 wrote: Ukraine is just getting rolled over, its so sad to watch. Its like they have no army at all to maintain order, and the best response its allies have are sanctions, though not too heavy because our economy is more important than someone being slowly invaded. This level of impotence is just so depressing. Lets hope heavier sanctions actually do something, but I don't think Putin and Co. really care. I don't quite think Russia's leadership is very rational at this point (or has ever been). Trapped in a cold war mentality, making outrageous claims (as posted above). If you never say 'enough is enough' and start using force, they're just going to keep bringing in Russian militants until every region with Russian-linked ethnic groups belongs to Russia. The problem is the moment they do use force Russia comes in to "save there people". Not much you can do when armed men take over your buildings and there backed up by several millions more waiting for any excuse to stroll in. Was the same problem in Crimea. They couldn't stop the military invading them without shooting but the moment they do that the Russian army marshes in and they cannot win that fight without help from the West which they are unwilling to give. | ||
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radiatoren
Denmark1907 Posts
Oh Russia your credibility is falling to a new low... | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22705 Posts
On April 14 2014 07:32 radiatoren wrote: The interesting question is why UN haven't send in peace-keeping forces? That would seem like the only reasonable way to avoid a civil war escalating as Russia is claiming. Oh Russia your credibility is falling to a new low... Because Russia holds a veto and will just vote down any resolution. | ||
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zlefin
United States7689 Posts
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22705 Posts
On April 14 2014 07:59 zlefin wrote: But its' still good politics; if you call for peacekeepers, and Russia refuses to allow un peacekeepers; then it hurts Russia's positioning, as it makes it harder for Russia to claim there's a problem. There have already been several similar votes and it hasn't changed a thing. How does it hurt Russia? Everyone knows what is going on. No one except fringe country's have supported them. Even China has expressed there disapproval while they are normally an ally against the west. Simple fact is that no one is willing to start WW3 over the Ukraine so they are on there own and powerless to stop a vastly superior Russia. | ||
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zlefin
United States7689 Posts
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radiatoren
Denmark1907 Posts
On April 14 2014 08:07 Gorsameth wrote: There have already been several similar votes and it hasn't changed a thing. How does it hurt Russia? Everyone knows what is going on. No one except fringe country's have supported them. Even China has expressed there disapproval while they are normally an ally against the west. Simple fact is that no one is willing to start WW3 over the Ukraine so they are on there own and powerless to stop a vastly superior Russia. I will give him that it can work for russians defending Putins selfless caring for his race living abroads well-being. They will have to go into relativism, supercilious interpretations and whataboutism to defend it. I expect "This is just the people doing what is needed to get attention. If peacekeeping wasn't needed on Maidan, it is not needed now.", "UN is not what the eastern ukrainian people want!" and "This is an issue the ukrainian government must deal with without bloodshed - like the west called for on Maidan!". | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22705 Posts
On April 14 2014 08:16 zlefin wrote: I haven't heard of any prior votes on peacekeepers specifically, which votes are you referring to? Peacekeepers no but again it does nothing. Everyone knows whats going. No one of any importance supports Russia. We're just not willing to start WW3 over this. Sending a message is useless if you have already send several and they have all been ignored. | ||
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Simberto
Germany12086 Posts
On April 14 2014 08:33 radiatoren wrote: I will give him that it can work for russians defending Putins selfless caring for his race living abroads well-being. They will have to go into relativism, supercilious interpretations and whataboutism to defend it. I expect "This is just the people doing what is needed to get attention. If peacekeeping wasn't needed on Maidan, it is not needed now.", "UN is not what the eastern ukrainian people want!" and "This is an issue the ukrainian government must deal with without bloodshed - like the west called for on Maidan!". Pff, you need to practice your propagandaspeak. My guess is: "Fascist UN Soldiers oppressing russian speaking people in the Ukraine". "Western Gay Steelhelmet Nazis fighting innocent protesters." | ||
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zlefin
United States7689 Posts
It's like plausible deniability; limiting their plausible deniability does make it harder on them. | ||
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