My Russian is very poor, but basically the chubby guy in blue jacket+beret says "we are for Donetsk Republic, we are for Russia". More argument, chubby guy shouts "friends","friends", and then they start firing in the air.
The anti-terror action from Ukraine has been thoroughly pushed back with 1-2 dead on each side and about 3-5 wounded.
A danish reporter has spoken to some of the armed men setting up posts around Slavyansk 200 km from the russian border. They identified as "russian Kossacks from Krasnodar. Defenders of the orthodox faith!".
He mentions unmarked helicopters entering just like VoR (the rabid part of the russian propaganda machine.).
So much for Russias army not entering eastern Ukraine. This is getting very bad, very fast.
http://www.ustream.tv/channel/tarasbilka Stream of separatists/provocateurs having eggs thrown at them: This is Zaporizhya (230km west of Donetsk). From what I understand, the separatists are standing in a small circle in the middle and are surrounded by anti-separatists and police. The separatists are being egged by the non-separatists.
At Mr. Putin’s direction, a committee led by his chief of staff is developing a new “state policy in culture.” Widely expected to be enacted into law, the proposed cultural policy emphasizes that “Russia is not Europe” and urges “a rejection of the principles of multiculturalism and tolerance” in favor of emphasizing Russia’s “unique state-government civilization,” according to Russian news accounts that quoted a presidential adviser on culture, Vladimir Tolstoy.
A Russian news site, znak.com, also reported last week that a popular series of math textbooks would be dropped from an official list of recommended educational texts because it used too many non-Russian fairy tale and other characters in its illustrations.
“What do we see from the first pages? Gnomes, Snow White — these are representatives of a foreign-language culture,” an expert of the Russian Academy of Education, Lyubov Ulyakhina, told the site in a question-and-answer interview. “Here’s some monkey, Little Red Riding Hood,” Ms. Ulyakhina continued, “of 119 characters drawn here only nine are related to Russian culture. Sorry — no patriotism — this is not funny; this is our mentality.”
And in a statement last week, the Russian Foreign Ministry warned its citizens not to travel to countries that have extradition treaties with the United States, saying that the Obama administration “is trying to make a routine practice out of ‘hunting’ for Russian citizens in third countries with the goal of their subsequent extradition and conviction in the U.S. on the basis of, as a rule, questionable charges.”
At Mr. Putin’s direction, a committee led by his chief of staff is developing a new “state policy in culture.” Widely expected to be enacted into law, the proposed cultural policy emphasizes that “Russia is not Europe” and urges “a rejection of the principles of multiculturalism and tolerance” in favor of emphasizing Russia’s “unique state-government civilization,” according to Russian news accounts that quoted a presidential adviser on culture, Vladimir Tolstoy.
A Russian news site, znak.com, also reported last week that a popular series of math textbooks would be dropped from an official list of recommended educational texts because it used too many non-Russian fairy tale and other characters in its illustrations.
“What do we see from the first pages? Gnomes, Snow White — these are representatives of a foreign-language culture,” an expert of the Russian Academy of Education, Lyubov Ulyakhina, told the site in a question-and-answer interview. “Here’s some monkey, Little Red Riding Hood,” Ms. Ulyakhina continued, “of 119 characters drawn here only nine are related to Russian culture. Sorry — no patriotism — this is not funny; this is our mentality.”
And in a statement last week, the Russian Foreign Ministry warned its citizens not to travel to countries that have extradition treaties with the United States, saying that the Obama administration “is trying to make a routine practice out of ‘hunting’ for Russian citizens in third countries with the goal of their subsequent extradition and conviction in the U.S. on the basis of, as a rule, questionable charges.”
People who say that it is okay for Russia to send troops into Ukraine and attack their government buildings, or to annex parts of their country really need to read that quote and remember their European history.
Edit: Hell, it was just a couple of weeks ago the Russians were burning piles of books in Crimea.
About Slavyansk situation. After the road blocks held by separatists were overtaken, the police special units refused to go inside the town without the support of armoured vehicles. While the army did not provide those because there is no emergency state in the region. So the town is being held by separatists.
Meanwhile in Slavyansk a car came under gunfire. Supposedly two people inside were shot dead, and one passer by was shot and is in a critical condition. Inside the car a journalist identity card was found for Andrey Mescheryakov. The attacker had an automatic rifle and was dressed as a civilian. According to internet Andrey Mescheryakov is a russian journalist who works for Rossiya-1 channel. *Update* Andrey Mescheryakov is supposed to be very much alive.
In Mariupol pro-Ukraine activists who gathered to protect the local police department were attacked by a group of around 150 armed with bats and some kind of explosive devices. Pro-Ukrainian activists got beat up. 9 of them required medical help. 6 of those stay in an intensive care block in local hospital. Looks like police didn't interfere.
(Reuters) - Ukraine's armed forces plan to launch a "full-scale anti-terrorist operation" against pro-Russian separatists, acting president Oleksander Turchinov said on Sunday, raising the risk of a military confrontation with Moscow.
Angered by the death of a state security officer and the wounding of two of his comrades near the flashpoint eastern city of Slaviansk, Turchinov gave rebels occupying state buildings until Monday morning to lay down their weapons.
He blamed Russia, which opposed a pro-Europe uprising that forced Moscow-backed former president Viktor Yanukovich to flee, for being behind the rash of rebellions across Russian-speaking towns in eastern Ukraine.
"The blood of Ukrainian heroes has been shed in a war which the Russian Federation is waging against Ukraine," he said in an address to the nation. "The aggressor has not stopped and is continuing to sow disorder in the east of the country."
Russia's foreign ministry called the planned military operation a "criminal order" and said the West should bring its allies in Ukraine's government under control.
"It is now the West's responsibility to prevent civil war in Ukraine," the ministry said in a statement.
It said it would put an urgent discussion of the situation in eastern Ukraine on the agenda of the United Nations Security Council.
With East-West relations in crisis, NATO described the appearance in eastern Ukraine of men with specialized Russian weapons and identical uniforms without insignia - as previously worn by Moscow's troops when they seized Crimea - as a "grave development".
Though the Ukrainian military did not resist the Russian takeover of Crimea with force, Turchinov threatened robust action against the rebels in the east.
"The National Security and Defense Council has decided to launch a full-scale anti-terrorist operation involving the armed forces of Ukraine," he declared.
Ukraine has repeatedly said the rebellions are inspired and directed by the Kremlin. But action to dislodge the armed militants risks tipping the stand-off into a new, dangerous phase as Moscow has warned it will protect the region's Russian-speakers if they come under attack.
One Ukrainian state security officer was killed and five were wounded on the government side in Sunday's operation in Slaviansk, interior minister Arsen Avakov said. "There were dead and wounded on both sides," he wrote on his Facebook page.
The Russian news agency RIA reported that one pro-Moscow activist was killed in Slaviansk in clashes with forces loyal to the Kiev government. "On our side, another two were injured," RIA quoted pro-Russian militant Nikolai Solntsev as adding.
Russian TV broadcast grainy footage of what it said was the body of the militant. The images, which Reuters could not verify independently, showed a man in black clothes, slumped against the door of a car, with a pool of blood between his legs. A rifle lay next to him.
Pro-Russian activists seized government buildings on Saturday in the eastern town of Slaviansk, about 150 km (90 miles) from the Russian border. Ukrainian security forces were trying to oust the activists, who set up barricades on the outskirts of the city.
The American ambassador to the U.N., Samantha Power, said on ABC's "This Week" that the latest events in Ukraine bore "the telltale signs of Moscow's involvement."
She said sanctions already imposed by Washington have had an impact: the Russian rouble has fallen to an all-time low, the country's stock market has depreciated by 20 percent and investors are fleeing the country.
"The president has made clear that, depending on Russian behavior, sectoral sanctions in energy, banking, mining could be on the table, and there's a lot in between," Power said.
"I think we've seen that the sanctions can bite, and if actions like the kind we've seen over the last few days continue, you're going to see a ramping up of those sanctions."
The sanctions have been the most visible sign of U.S. anger at Russia's annexation of the Crimea region in southern Ukraine last month, reflecting the deepest plunge in U.S.-Russian relations since the Cold War.
Ukraine now faces a rash of rebellions in the east that it says are inspired and directed by the Kremlin.
Scary thing is that if u're walking with ukrainian symbols or yellow/blue colors in center of Kharkov, u might be beaten by pro-russian, can u imagine this?
Walking with ukrainian symbols, in ukrainan city and get beaten?
One more picture from subway, those station is not far away from center. 30-40 "civil" group that consist only of males didn't knew how to pass a turnstile to station. + Show Spoiler +
As a U.S. citizen you know very well that your country also does things that are deemed not okay by other countries or citizens, but the U.S. says it defends its vital interests and they are okay from U.S. perspective.
What land did we steal doing these things that were deemed not okay by other countries?
What fake elections did we set up?
What unidentified soldiers (uniforms aren't enough you have to have markings or it's kind of illegal) did we send in beforehand to create a fake 'protester movement' to take stuff over before the helicopters started flying over?
When the government of a certain country we very recently fought a big war in said okay we decided we don't want you around at all anymore did we leave or create some fake need to protect minorities and take over?
And on that last one Ukraine didn't even tell Russia they didn't want the Russian military in Ukraine anymore and that had not even the remotest possibility of becoming Ukrainian policy...
US sure does things lots of people don't like but there fundamental and important differences between how the US acts and how the Russians act. When we say we want to help people we really do try to help them and many of our actions show it, it's not all just some cynical ploy. Russia says it's in Russia's vital interests and here's what Russia is going to do to show Russia is doing the right thing and then doesn't deliver.
America isn't much better, but this thread isn't about America.
Did we annex any of those countries? No. And look at that list. Libya was covert? Iraq was covert? Afghanistan was covert? When did the US engineer a regime change in Cuba? The Bay of Pigs didn't change any regimes... Unless you mean when the US acted like idiots and tacitly supported the rebellions against Batista... Gaza? Ukraine? Somalia? Half the countries on that list didn't even have regime changes at the times mentioned in the subheadings. Iran 2005-present? Poland 1980-1981? Yeah, the US was really acting underhandedly giving aid to Solidarity against the Soviet dictatorship ruling there at the time. And I don't remember anyone ever saying that the Polish communist government fell in 1980-1981 either... Actually reading that article that is probably the worst Wikipedia article ever for accuracy and that is really saying something. Who cares that the US is trying to overthrow Iran's government? Iran's government is barely better than the Nazis, they should be overthrown.
And to belabor it intelligence operatives are not soldiers, I was talking about soldiers in uniforms with no markings. When did the US employ American soldiers in uniforms with no markings?
And sorry, I know all about those chunks.
@DeepElem: Do you really want me to bring up examples now? I think this would only derail this thread so I will not do it. Just one thing, I got to experience american hospitality first hand and you guys are great. Yet your government does stuff I don't always agree with.
No I don't really think we need to see all the examples we've seen ten thousand times before. And for the love of FSM it's getting tiresome reading this excuse about derailing the thread, you want to make a claim? Then defend it. Don't make it and then run to "don't derail the thread." It's just a cheap way to make an assertion and declare the conversation over, you got out what you wanted to say but anyone disagreeing now that would be derailing and that would be bad.
If talking about it is derailing the thread, don't bring it up in the first place.
My Russian is very poor, but basically the chubby guy in blue jacket+beret says "we are for Donetsk Republic, we are for Russia". More argument, chubby guy shouts "friends","friends", and then they start firing in the air.
Maybe somebody could translate better?
Professional government trained soldiers don't behave like that. .
My Russian is very poor, but basically the chubby guy in blue jacket+beret says "we are for Donetsk Republic, we are for Russia". More argument, chubby guy shouts "friends","friends", and then they start firing in the air.
Maybe somebody could translate better?
Professional government trained soldiers don't behave like that. .
I guess it would be pretty good cover for professional soldiers to not behave like professional soldiers when they're operating under cover so to speak.
My Russian is very poor, but basically the chubby guy in blue jacket+beret says "we are for Donetsk Republic, we are for Russia". More argument, chubby guy shouts "friends","friends", and then they start firing in the air.
Maybe somebody could translate better?
Professional government trained soldiers don't behave like that. .
I guess it would be pretty good cover for professional soldiers to not behave like professional soldiers when they're operating under cover so to speak.
They don't rly care just like the media. There are thousands of evidence that these protesters aren't normal people but they still continue to tell the contrary in Russian medias. Now that it has become more of a joke, I don't expect many of the pro-Russia to say anything in the thread.
Ukraine's acting President Oleksandr Turchynov has said a "large-scale counterterrorist operation" involving the army will be launched in the country's east after pro-Russia militants seized government buildings.
Russia called the planned military operation a "criminal order."
Speaking in a live televised address from parliament on April 13, Turchynov accused Russia of waging "war" against Ukraine by sowing disorder in the country's east.
Turchynov said authorities in Kyiv will not allow the "repetition of the Crimean scenario."
Russia annexed the Crimean Peninsula in March after local residents voted to secede from Ukraine and seek to join Russia in a referendum.
In a decree, Turchynov offered not to prosecute any militants who gave up their weapons by 9 a.m. (0600 GMT/UTC) on April 14.
Russia's Foreign Ministry said Kyiv's decision to use the armed forces against protesters was "outrageous," and demanded that the authorities "immediately stop waging war again their own people."
"It is now the West's responsibility to prevent civil war in Ukraine," it said in a statement.
The ministry also said it would put an urgent discussion of the situation in eastern Ukraine on the agenda of the United Nations Security Council and the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe.
Excellent article on the purpose of this phantom war but it is in Estonian. I did a google translate, and cleaned it a tiny bit, but I don't have any more time to work on this tonight. Good luck to those who will read it.
Erik - Niiles Kross : Narva gambit Published : April 13 at 19:23
If the West continues pretending that Russia is not attacking Ukraine, it will signal to Moscow that such chameleon tactics are effective. I believe that sooner or later, Putin intends to demonstrate how NATO is unable to protect its own members . You can use a similar attack , "Desperate Housewives " -style operation , writes Erik - Niiles Kross.
Yesterday began with a wide-ranging eastern Ukraine, Russian special forces operation, whose primary goals are the creation of chaos , violence, elicitation, the state government's decision-making processes , and capacity of the poor , and thereby restore Moscow's political control over Ukraine .
It is important to remember that Russia does not seek war. The primary goal is to restore the situation in which Ukraine is vasallistaatuses surrenders to the west , and integration. The situation in which the European Union and NATO to help Ukraine in turn incapacitated . The situation in which both the Ukrainians and the world begins to seem that " everyone " is better digested , the central government controls the provincial assembly which depends on the discretion of Moscow as a long -term armed conflict. To achieve this goal , Russia is prepared to engage in an open and prolonged war, but today he is trying to disguise its military aggression yet .
Yesterday was attacked by well- armed and trained the obvious military groups coordinated plan of attack for at least five eastern Ukrainian city government buildings , police stations and weapons depots . Such an operation can be performed only by a single management , a comprehensive operating plan and the teams practiced together . In assessing the " green figure " any person skilled in weaponry and equipment is clear that the armed forces within the atom belongs to the Russian GRU Spetsnaz units. Sptesnazi GRU officers and agents of the Ukrainian Security Service of Ukraine's territory in recent weeks arrested at least four times .
In short , Russia is carried out by an armed destabiliseerimisoperatsioone against another country , which would also prepare the ground for " peacekeeping forces " in the . These borders are notoriously waiting.
Russia in such activities , in addition to a direct military threat extremely dangerous aspect. Russia will do everything possible to give the impression jutkui GRU soldiers acted not only "local activists ", " concerned citizens " and " protesters ". Foreign Minister Lavrov said in yesterday's attacks , that it is " Donbass Frantic, local citizens " activities . In short , Frantic, housewives.
Russia Estimates here are obvious . He tries to give the western countries the opportunity to pretend that the invasion of Russian troops have not begun. As long as Moscow denies its forces to operate in Ukraine , if desired, can be seen as a situation of internal conflict in Ukraine , which the government is unable to control. At one point, trying to Moscow, then get yourself peace of accepting things right . In other words , Moscow performs amazingly cynical petteoperatsiooni , which hopes to western reluctance to admit that the war has begun, and despite all the signs of a military invasion to the play the game " , and the Kyiv venemeelsete pro- ukrainalste " the relationship between the conflict. Russia is trying to get to the hands of the West of lying going on . If this road goes west , the west has a moral superiority , at least in the Ukraine and other countries threatened by Russia in the eyes closed .
Estonia's interest today is that Europe and NATO would call things by the right names. The only thing the public an honest appraisal enables to adequately respond . If the West is going to contribute to the current " internal conflict " rhetoric , Russia is one of the objectives achieved. And the set up is yet another extremely dangerous precedent for Estonia.
It is not Putin's aggression against Ukraine for the Ukrainian addressed only the problem of " solving ". Putin's aim is to SUBORDINATION addition to Ukrainian and Western security organizations , in fact, the entire international security organization to radically change . If you read the rhetoric from the Kremlin, the 2000th year of the new security concept of the Russian , Russia's main foreign policy objective is publicly was not only the suspension of NATO enlargement and Russia as a regional " jõukeskuse » restoration, but also to Western security organization replaced.
That would mean the abolition of NATO and the new security agreements , which the West would accept Russia ainudomineerijana his " sphere of privileged interests ". That's not the way the author of speculation. Specifically, it is an objective outlined in Moscow in 2007. Onwards. Indeed, Putin said at the Munich Security Conference in February 2007: "I am convinced that we have reached a decisive moment when we must seriously think through the architecture of global security ".
In June 2008 , two months before the attack on Georgia , then President Medvejev said that the " Euro-Atlantic security system " ( read NATO - ENK ) days are numbered and that NATO enlargement will continue , it stops Russia's cooperation with the West. It is necessary to have a new global security agreement and " the unity of the entire Euro-Atlantic space from Vancouver to Vladivostok ".
Russia is believed to have no doubt very much that of a conventional military attack on a NATO country today would be too high-risk . Indeed, in recent months, the West has shown that they are ready to protect the Estonian military . Estonia is also about to make a leap in the decade following the conventional military defense building. NATO air defense base in the northwest of the United States , probably arriving soon face a major soomusvõimekuse etc. seniesest we become significantly more serious military nuts. But it shows that Russia is currently in Ukraine are far from conventionality . This is exactly the situation described by Clausewitz : " War is an area of ignorance ; Three -quarters of those things , operating pursuant to which the war has been founded, remains more or less teadmatuseudu shade. So this is going to require first and foremost a subtle , penetrating mind that their sensitive decision-making to discern the truth . " Ukraine is carried out in addition to aggression petteoperatsioon extremely dangerous .
It is in this context the west , Ukraine is currently taking place in Africa 's response to the fantoomsõjale particularly important , because Russia will not only destroy Ukraine's independence , but will test the reactions taking place to the west .
If the West continues today pretending that Russia is not Ukraine was attacked, it will signal to Moscow that such kameeleontaktika is effective .
I believe that sooner or later , Putin intends to demonstrate how NATO is unable to protect its own members . You can use a similar attack , " Desperate Housewives " -style operation .
I propose a scenario in which Russia could be used against Estonia . I do not want to spread panic ,our primary task is to remain very calm and confident . However, it is important not to go along with the possibility of burying heads in the sand . As a way to stop what is happening in Ukraine today we very much depend on how we respond to Russia's next possible steps.
Russia has its own " strange war " the main instrument clearly chosen the GRU special units. They were used in the Crimea , they are used today in eastern Ukraine. They are used as a disguised , masked look-alike military operation, with massive media war and as a communicative creating confusion .
In recent weeks, has repeatedly emphasized that " normal " military attack against Estonia , and the Crimea " referendum " test , for example, is not likely to Narva . I agree with this assessment. Direct military attack would not be in favor of the objectives of Russia today . Russia would be useful for the attack, which did not elicit Article 5 rakendumist but have yet PTO . East - Ukrainian green figure usage for this scenario would be appropriate.
Such surgery Narva (or Kohtla - lake , Sillamäel or Jõhvis ) could be carried out in a few hours . What is needed is not a troop mobilization , an important eksalatsiooni , or even any particular reason from the Estonian -Russian relations . The reason lies in the overall Russian foreign policy . Need not go more than a few kids get a special unit . Separators , well -trained and equipped units , for example, who call themselves " self-defense forces in Ida-Viru » take more than one night , for example, the Narva City Government , power , police , border checkpoint .
The purpose of such an operation would be the separation of Narva in Estonia, although it can be used as an excuse . The purpose of such an operation would be to pull the Estonian authorities raiders , Russia , NATO and the EU in lengthy negotiations to resolve the situation , during which Russia would " refrain from the use of force ". NATO's Article 5 of the launch would also rather questionable. Naturally , Estonia should insist on it instantaneously , because if Article 5 does not start, the Russians , have found a method for proving that NATO does not function.
However, should such an attack on the liquidation of Estonia . NATO fighter planes would not be in such a situation, a significant benefit. Estonia is the truly time to be ready for the attack , not only on paper. Through the fantoomsõjale think appropriate operational impact on the legal side . Defence use of " Desperate Housewives " on the right of Russia to the escalation . The police may not be similar opertatsiooniks ready . Consider the needs of the security forces , the special police or military contingent of some sort of physical presence in Ida-Viru County. Border might think of the military component of the restoration . Estonia's primary need is my estimate of about 1000 for rapid response ready for a special corps of trained men who are preferably located in Ida- Viru.
What's especially important that Estonia must be aware that such an attack is not today Russophobia paranoid fantasy . It would fit well in Russia and Russia 's goals demonstrated the capacity to carry out such activities . Estonia must demonstrate the capability to effectively curb such attacks .
***
THE KIEV authorities' hold on Donbas and much of the wider region of eastern Ukraine has disappeared. President Oleksandr Turchynov had said that a military operation was imminent and that anyone who left the seized buildings by 6.00 am on April 14th would not be prosecuted.
But by nightfall, as fog covered the Donbas, it was clear that no concerted government action to take back the region was under way. The region’s police appear to have defected en masse to the pro-Russian side. Police buildings in the town of Sloviansk and Kramatorsk fell to armed men on April 12thand there were reports of other municipal buildings being taken elsewhere. A Ukrainian security services operation to restore authority in Sloviansk failed. Military or police helicopters flew over town and unconfirmed sources said crowds prevented them from landing. Source.