On April 08 2014 05:19 sekritzzz wrote: So let me get this straight, one group of ukranians overthrow the democratically elected president(twice!) , of course wih 5billion worth of funding for promoting "democracy" and people expect the oppressed people who got their voices cut to stay quiet?
Nice joke, putin is not going to play the west's hypocritical games anymore. Bullshit of an excuse, freedom of press, freedom of rights, freedom of self rule, you can keep all those, well as long as you become a slave to the wests interest. We have all read the same book before. Welcome to egypt, the land of democracy, just ask John Kerry about that road map.
Uhhhhh, 5 million dollars, eh? I've seen these numbers thrown out before. Could you give me a source? Was it economic aid or was it specifically political aid to anti-Russian elements as you seem to imply? While we're at it, how about giving me a source from countries not named Russia, Belarus, Syria, North Korea (i.e. countries were democracy functions)? It's either Russia is right, or all these media from dozens of different countries with very varying interest/politics all came to the the exact wrong conclusion, while all Russian media is right. Coincidentally, Russia media is not allowed to directly criticize Putin, are state funded (directly or inderectly), and happen to exist in a country happens to be one of the most common countries for journalists to be attacked/murdered.
i posted a us senate testimony signed neocon-succubus nuland herself earlier where she uses the number, you can go look it up. the money is used to subvert ukraine to us will and the us has clear on what their will in this case. nuland and kerry handing out cookies and getting pally pal with chief of svoboda.
I guess with him polling below Yanukovich's level even today they chose poorly.
Also comes with a handy classification tool for Zeo, Paleman, Nunez and other critters scuttling around this thread.
***
Signs that the Crimea scenario is about to be repeated:
Definitely a very opinionated article. I agree with the sentiment and most of his proposed actions, but I'm siding the passive West. Putin had his cake, and now he just wants to destabilize and prove that Ukraine is hopeless siding with the West. The most embarassing thing for Russia is if Ukraine made progress as a 'European' country. If he chops off the more Russian part of Ukraine, it will unite Ukraine and push Europe to doing even more to help the rest of the Ukraine. Also, these parts of Eastern Ukraine have no symbolic value for Russia. Crimea is a whole 'nother story.
On April 08 2014 05:19 sekritzzz wrote: So let me get this straight, one group of ukranians overthrow the democratically elected president(twice!) , of course wih 5billion worth of funding for promoting "democracy" and people expect the oppressed people who got their voices cut to stay quiet?
Nice joke, putin is not going to play the west's hypocritical games anymore. Bullshit of an excuse, freedom of press, freedom of rights, freedom of self rule, you can keep all those, well as long as you become a slave to the wests interest. We have all read the same book before. Welcome to egypt, the land of democracy, just ask John Kerry about that road map.
Uhhhhh, 5 million dollars, eh? I've seen these numbers thrown out before. Could you give me a source? Was it economic aid or was it specifically political aid to anti-Russian elements as you seem to imply? While we're at it, how about giving me a source from countries not named Russia, Belarus, Syria, North Korea (i.e. countries were democracy functions)? It's either Russia is right, or all these media from dozens of different countries with very varying interest/politics all came to the the exact wrong conclusion, while all Russian media is right. Coincidentally, Russia media is not allowed to directly criticize Putin, are state funded (directly or inderectly), and happen to exist in a country happens to be one of the most common countries for journalists to be attacked/murdered.
i posted a us senate testimony signed neocon-succubus nuland herself earlier where she uses the number, you can go look it up. the money is used to subvert ukraine to us will and the us has clear on what their will in this case. nuland and kerry handing out cookies and getting pally pal with chief of svoboda.
You would make a good scenarist. The US are everywhere and control everything, just like the Jews, just like the Chinese, just like the Arabians, just like the... Fascists in Ukraine! edit: and gays are in control too!
Definitely a very opinionated article. I agree with the sentiment and most of his proposed actions, but I'm siding the passive West. Putin had his cake, and now he just wants to destabilize and prove that Ukraine is hopeless siding with the West. The most embarassing thing for Russia is if Ukraine made progress as a 'European' country. If he chops off the more Russian part of Ukraine, it will unite Ukraine and push Europe to doing even more to help the rest of the Ukraine. Also, these parts of Eastern Ukraine have no symbolic value for Russia. Crimea is a whole 'nother story.
I am not so sure. European gay fascism already explains why even though Poles live better than Russians, Russians shouldnt try to follow Polish economy policies. You see Russians are a special Euroasian culture, ingeniously standing up as a bastion against gay imperialism.
On April 08 2014 05:19 sekritzzz wrote: So let me get this straight, one group of ukranians overthrow the democratically elected president(twice!) , of course wih 5billion worth of funding for promoting "democracy" and people expect the oppressed people who got their voices cut to stay quiet?
Nice joke, putin is not going to play the west's hypocritical games anymore. Bullshit of an excuse, freedom of press, freedom of rights, freedom of self rule, you can keep all those, well as long as you become a slave to the wests interest. We have all read the same book before. Welcome to egypt, the land of democracy, just ask John Kerry about that road map.
Uhhhhh, 5 million dollars, eh? I've seen these numbers thrown out before. Could you give me a source? Was it economic aid or was it specifically political aid to anti-Russian elements as you seem to imply? While we're at it, how about giving me a source from countries not named Russia, Belarus, Syria, North Korea (i.e. countries were democracy functions)? It's either Russia is right, or all these media from dozens of different countries with very varying interest/politics all came to the the exact wrong conclusion, while all Russian media is right. Coincidentally, Russia media is not allowed to directly criticize Putin, are state funded (directly or inderectly), and happen to exist in a country happens to be one of the most common countries for journalists to be attacked/murdered.
i posted a us senate testimony signed neocon-succubus nuland herself earlier where she uses the number, you can go look it up. the money is used to subvert ukraine to us will and the us has clear on what their will in this case. nuland and kerry handing out cookies and getting pally pal with chief of svoboda.
So you don't provide me the source, and the source a single politician's opinion? Sounds very convincing. How about you give me a source and explain how this 5$ billion was used in the Orange Revolution as you directly imply.
Definitely a very opinionated article. I agree with the sentiment and most of his proposed actions, but I'm siding the passive West. Putin had his cake, and now he just wants to destabilize and prove that Ukraine is hopeless siding with the West. The most embarassing thing for Russia is if Ukraine made progress as a 'European' country. If he chops off the more Russian part of Ukraine, it will unite Ukraine and push Europe to doing even more to help the rest of the Ukraine. Also, these parts of Eastern Ukraine have no symbolic value for Russia. Crimea is a whole 'nother story.
I am not so sure. European gay fascism already explains why even though Poles live better than Russians, Russians shouldnt try to follow Polish economy policies. You see Russians are a special Euroasian culture, ingeniously standing up as a bastion against gay imperialism.
Funny thing is that Poland isn't a very homosexually tolerant country. However, we don't usually beat/murder them or tie them up, force them to confess to homosexuality, post the video online and beat them in the process.
On April 08 2014 05:37 Geisterkarle wrote: Economy? Looks grim I think! Actually for this their best hope could be to join Russia! Sounds crazy, but if we learned anything from Spain, Greece, ... then the "help" from the EU is something that not many people will like ...
On the contrary, the only way forward is to join societies that have rule of law, freeish press and follow rational economic decisions
there are no such societies, its only an image created in your head by powerful media
Not every country is stuck in the 19th century, you should travel more.
well i think France in 19th century was much more comfortable place than in 21th i kinda don't want to test "rule of law" when some french-arab or french-afro will rob me in the center of Paris
On April 08 2014 05:19 sekritzzz wrote: So let me get this straight, one group of ukranians overthrow the democratically elected president(twice!) , of course wih 5billion worth of funding for promoting "democracy" and people expect the oppressed people who got their voices cut to stay quiet?
Nice joke, putin is not going to play the west's hypocritical games anymore. Bullshit of an excuse, freedom of press, freedom of rights, freedom of self rule, you can keep all those, well as long as you become a slave to the wests interest. We have all read the same book before. Welcome to egypt, the land of democracy, just ask John Kerry about that road map.
Uhhhhh, 5 million dollars, eh? I've seen these numbers thrown out before. Could you give me a source? Was it economic aid or was it specifically political aid to anti-Russian elements as you seem to imply? While we're at it, how about giving me a source from countries not named Russia, Belarus, Syria, North Korea (i.e. countries were democracy functions)? It's either Russia is right, or all these media from dozens of different countries with very varying interest/politics all came to the the exact wrong conclusion, while all Russian media is right. Coincidentally, Russia media is not allowed to directly criticize Putin, are state funded (directly or inderectly), and happen to exist in a country happens to be one of the most common countries for journalists to be attacked/murdered.
i posted a us senate testimony signed neocon-succubus nuland herself earlier where she uses the number, you can go look it up. the money is used to subvert ukraine to us will and the us has clear on what their will in this case. nuland and kerry handing out cookies and getting pally pal with chief of svoboda.
So you don't provide me the source, and the source a single politician's opinion? Sounds very convincing. How about you give me a source and explain how this 5$ billion was used in the Orange Revolution as you directly imply.
i already provided the source earlier in the thread, testimony to us senate by assistant secretary of state for european blah blah affairs. nuland might be a bitch, but i'm sure she got her numbers on us govt spending in ukraine in order, don't you think?
On April 08 2014 05:37 Geisterkarle wrote: Economy? Looks grim I think! Actually for this their best hope could be to join Russia! Sounds crazy, but if we learned anything from Spain, Greece, ... then the "help" from the EU is something that not many people will like ...
On the contrary, the only way forward is to join societies that have rule of law, freeish press and follow rational economic decisions
there are no such societies, its only an image created in your head by powerful media
Not every country is stuck in the 19th century, you should travel more.
well i think France in 19th century was much more comfortable place than in 21th i kinda don't want to test "rule of law" when some french-arab or french-afro will rob me in the center of Paris
On April 08 2014 05:37 Geisterkarle wrote: Economy? Looks grim I think! Actually for this their best hope could be to join Russia! Sounds crazy, but if we learned anything from Spain, Greece, ... then the "help" from the EU is something that not many people will like ...
On the contrary, the only way forward is to join societies that have rule of law, freeish press and follow rational economic decisions
there are no such societies, its only an image created in your head by powerful media
Not every country is stuck in the 19th century, you should travel more.
well i think France in 19th century was much more comfortable place than in 21th i kinda don't want to test "rule of law" when some french-arab or french-afro will rob me in the center of Paris
As a French, I'm speechless really.
Those enlightened Russians. They know what's better for every country, except their own.
On April 08 2014 05:19 sekritzzz wrote: So let me get this straight, one group of ukranians overthrow the democratically elected president(twice!) , of course wih 5billion worth of funding for promoting "democracy" and people expect the oppressed people who got their voices cut to stay quiet?
Nice joke, putin is not going to play the west's hypocritical games anymore. Bullshit of an excuse, freedom of press, freedom of rights, freedom of self rule, you can keep all those, well as long as you become a slave to the wests interest. We have all read the same book before. Welcome to egypt, the land of democracy, just ask John Kerry about that road map.
Uhhhhh, 5 million dollars, eh? I've seen these numbers thrown out before. Could you give me a source? Was it economic aid or was it specifically political aid to anti-Russian elements as you seem to imply? While we're at it, how about giving me a source from countries not named Russia, Belarus, Syria, North Korea (i.e. countries were democracy functions)? It's either Russia is right, or all these media from dozens of different countries with very varying interest/politics all came to the the exact wrong conclusion, while all Russian media is right. Coincidentally, Russia media is not allowed to directly criticize Putin, are state funded (directly or inderectly), and happen to exist in a country happens to be one of the most common countries for journalists to be attacked/murdered.
i posted a us senate testimony signed neocon-succubus nuland herself earlier where she uses the number, you can go look it up. the money is used to subvert ukraine to us will and the us has clear on what their will in this case. nuland and kerry handing out cookies and getting pally pal with chief of svoboda.
So you don't provide me the source, and the source a single politician's opinion? Sounds very convincing. How about you give me a source and explain how this 5$ billion was used in the Orange Revolution as you directly imply.
i already provided the source earlier in the thread, testimony to us senate by assistant secretary of state for european blah blah affairs. nuland might be a bitch, but i'm sure she got her numbers on us govt spending in ukraine in order, don't you think?
Well, if you're trying to make a point that a lot of people in this thread might disagree with it's good to back it up directly with a link. Then I can personally assess the validity of your argument. I'm not going to search through this entire thread (or your post history) to find it. Also if it's such a certain fact, it shouldn't be too hard for you to provide it via an alternate news source?
And does the article in anyway suggest that the money was used or intended to foment revolution in Ukraine (i.e. the overthrow of democratically elected governments in Ukraine)? If you can't support that, then you're statement is completely groundless.
The video is a mess, but the general idea is that the separatistic tent camp got shut down by local antiseparatistic activists. Earlier today a small group of separatists attempted to capture the Regional State Administration. The local tent camp stood there since the end of Fabruary. It started off as Antimaidan, but lately transformed into separatistic tent camp.
The short chat at the end: Interviewer: can you tell me what you are doing exactly? Masked man: closing down the tents of separatists, those fascist bastards. I: Are you from Nikolaev? M: Yes, I'm from Nikolaev. I: But... M: I will say no more.
On April 08 2014 05:37 Geisterkarle wrote: Economy? Looks grim I think! Actually for this their best hope could be to join Russia! Sounds crazy, but if we learned anything from Spain, Greece, ... then the "help" from the EU is something that not many people will like ...
On the contrary, the only way forward is to join societies that have rule of law, freeish press and follow rational economic decisions
there are no such societies, its only an image created in your head by powerful media
Not every country is stuck in the 19th century, you should travel more.
well i think France in 19th century was much more comfortable place than in 21th i kinda don't want to test "rule of law" when some french-arab or french-afro will rob me in the center of Paris
because you couldn't be robbed by a white guy? or "pale frenchmen" are not capable of robbing people in the center of Paris?
On April 08 2014 05:37 Geisterkarle wrote: Economy? Looks grim I think! Actually for this their best hope could be to join Russia! Sounds crazy, but if we learned anything from Spain, Greece, ... then the "help" from the EU is something that not many people will like ...
On the contrary, the only way forward is to join societies that have rule of law, freeish press and follow rational economic decisions
there are no such societies, its only an image created in your head by powerful media
Not every country is stuck in the 19th century, you should travel more.
well i think France in 19th century was much more comfortable place than in 21th i kinda don't want to test "rule of law" when some french-arab or french-afro will rob me in the center of Paris
because you couldn't be robbed by a white guy? or "pale frenchmen" are not capable of robbing people in the center of Paris?
Also it's not without irony that the person who calls everyone in sight a fascist bursts out islamophobic nonsense, the trademark of today's right-wingers. Pretty typical for the general situation. Russia allegedly needs to save Ukraine from the evil nationalists while Russia itself is becoming as nationalist as it hasn't been for decades.
On April 08 2014 05:21 Mc wrote: I don't really think that Putin will invade Eastern Ukraine. Manipulate, destabilize? Yes, and he has already. Invading is simply economic/political suicide. Europe and the US will have to impose really serious sanctions and that would really damage Russia's economy (and to a lesser extent Europe's). If I'm wrong, it's either that I'm too blind to the Europeans resolve to stand up to soviet aggresion, or Putin is too high on his power trip to realize that he's taking a step too far.
Soviet union is around? I think you're 23 years too late
But seriously, I cannot understand why people are looking at the smaller European countries as this independent bloc independent in its dealings with the current situation. This isn't a strictly "European affair", and nowhere close. The US has more say and leverage in this matter than all of non-Russian Europe combined. The US is the leader. It probably has the only functional military between the US and Europe (excluding Russia). It has enormous influence in your affairs and it's been noted in this thread multiple times (as anyone with any knowledge of the past 70 years knows). We run the show. But despite the fantasies of some people, it is the US that carries more leverage than anyone else with Russia, and in addition, on the flip side, the US will never allow Russia to have cozy relations with the rest of the European countries even if Russia wanted to. One of the Germans adamantly stated earlier in this thread that the US would oppose this more than anything else, and he is absolutely right. The US is a wolf leading a pack of toy poodles (NATO/EU countries) against a bear its existence is devoted to opposing. We have no interest in joining hands with Russia and we never did. Our only interest is in seeing them fall.
I don't see any power trip going on. There's no reason for Putin to go any further. Crimea was an extremely special case. Even for purely strategic reasons, huge instability, coup, and other political occurrences in Ukraine that could throw Ukraine under the US would compromise Russia's Black Sea fleet and bases in Crimea. That reasoning is infinitely more logical than the conspiracy theories being thrown around here going along the lines of "Oh no Putin is going to conquer all of Europe". The annexation of Crimea not justified as I've said repeatedly in this thread, but just that reason alone is a far more reasonable explanation than the Europe-conquest conspiracies. In any case, from what it appears Russia has no interest in conquering eastern Ukraine, or Poland, or Germany, or Britain, or whatever you guys want to throw out there.
On April 08 2014 05:37 Geisterkarle wrote: Economy? Looks grim I think! Actually for this their best hope could be to join Russia! Sounds crazy, but if we learned anything from Spain, Greece, ... then the "help" from the EU is something that not many people will like ...
On the contrary, the only way forward is to join societies that have rule of law, freeish press and follow rational economic decisions
there are no such societies, its only an image created in your head by powerful media
Not every country is stuck in the 19th century, you should travel more.
well i think France in 19th century was much more comfortable place than in 21th i kinda don't want to test "rule of law" when some french-arab or french-afro will rob me in the center of Paris
Sounds like a really fun and save time to live in, only 5 large regime changes, the napoleonic wars, and something called the long depression. Probably a lot better then france nowadays.
On April 08 2014 05:37 Geisterkarle wrote: Economy? Looks grim I think! Actually for this their best hope could be to join Russia! Sounds crazy, but if we learned anything from Spain, Greece, ... then the "help" from the EU is something that not many people will like ...
On the contrary, the only way forward is to join societies that have rule of law, freeish press and follow rational economic decisions
there are no such societies, its only an image created in your head by powerful media
Not every country is stuck in the 19th century, you should travel more.
well i think France in 19th century was much more comfortable place than in 21th i kinda don't want to test "rule of law" when some french-arab or french-afro will rob me in the center of Paris
Sounds like a really fun and save time to live in, only 5 large regime changes, the napoleonic wars, and something called the long depression. Probably a lot better then france nowadays.
i think he means because 19th century was pure and white instead of full of blacks and arabs he fears so much.
On April 08 2014 05:37 Geisterkarle wrote: Economy? Looks grim I think! Actually for this their best hope could be to join Russia! Sounds crazy, but if we learned anything from Spain, Greece, ... then the "help" from the EU is something that not many people will like ...
On the contrary, the only way forward is to join societies that have rule of law, freeish press and follow rational economic decisions
there are no such societies, its only an image created in your head by powerful media
Not every country is stuck in the 19th century, you should travel more.
well i think France in 19th century was much more comfortable place than in 21th i kinda don't want to test "rule of law" when some french-arab or french-afro will rob me in the center of Paris
Sounds like a really fun and save time to live in, only 5 large regime changes, the napoleonic wars, and something called the long depression. Probably a lot better then france nowadays.
A small despotic ruler, long depression, well it sounds a little bit like Russia today, so I could see why he would feel at home
On April 08 2014 05:37 Geisterkarle wrote: Economy? Looks grim I think! Actually for this their best hope could be to join Russia! Sounds crazy, but if we learned anything from Spain, Greece, ... then the "help" from the EU is something that not many people will like ...
On the contrary, the only way forward is to join societies that have rule of law, freeish press and follow rational economic decisions
there are no such societies, its only an image created in your head by powerful media
Not every country is stuck in the 19th century, you should travel more.
well i think France in 19th century was much more comfortable place than in 21th i kinda don't want to test "rule of law" when some french-arab or french-afro will rob me in the center of Paris
If this really represents the general mind of Russians, they have become closer to the Germans 75 years ago than anyone in between. Seems in line with their recent actions too.
EPT
