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On March 18 2014 21:20 RvB wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2014 21:16 myminerals wrote:On March 18 2014 19:39 RvB wrote:On March 18 2014 18:39 myminerals wrote:On March 18 2014 17:28 Silvanel wrote:
Polish media reports that turnout during referendum in Sevastopol was 124%. 474k votes cats while theres 383k people registred in Sevastopol. Pretty funny that they still make those kinds of mistakes, i mean they should be pretty good at faking votings right now. Hell, why did they even bother? The general popultion was in favor of being anexed anyway.
Also some people who were against anexation are being evicted from their homes. I am sure that 80% if not more of Crimea citizens would like to join Russia. Above that, the same thing can be said for all eastern cities of Ukraine, such as Donetsk or Dnipropetrovsk, Kharkiv and many others. Rigged or not this referendum does not prove anything. Crimea has always been a Russian territory with people who think of themselves as Russians and speak Russian, what other facts do you need? I am not saying that it was absolutely right to "annex" this territory now, but I can't disagree with the fact that russian people live there. You're simply wrong. Someone linked a study earlier that before the Maidan only 40% in Crimea even identified as Russian. Why would the other 60% want to join Russia if they don't see themself as one. Ok, read studies. I talk to ppl who actually live in Ukraine. Moreover I live in Belarus and frequently visit Ukraine, so I am somewhat aware of the situation. Who do you think I believe? I don't know, facts seem more important to me. link to the post
this study shows pro-russia sentiment and is before the ousting of the elected president, that most of them probably voted for, by a movement that includes, has not at any point distanced itself from and has even appointed positions in governement to the far-right who are vehemently anti-russian.
i'd bet your ass the majority of crimea are gunning to jump ship.
On March 18 2014 22:15 Derez wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2014 22:11 myminerals wrote:On March 18 2014 21:20 RvB wrote:On March 18 2014 21:16 myminerals wrote:On March 18 2014 19:39 RvB wrote:On March 18 2014 18:39 myminerals wrote:On March 18 2014 17:28 Silvanel wrote:
Polish media reports that turnout during referendum in Sevastopol was 124%. 474k votes cats while theres 383k people registred in Sevastopol. Pretty funny that they still make those kinds of mistakes, i mean they should be pretty good at faking votings right now. Hell, why did they even bother? The general popultion was in favor of being anexed anyway.
Also some people who were against anexation are being evicted from their homes. I am sure that 80% if not more of Crimea citizens would like to join Russia. Above that, the same thing can be said for all eastern cities of Ukraine, such as Donetsk or Dnipropetrovsk, Kharkiv and many others. Rigged or not this referendum does not prove anything. Crimea has always been a Russian territory with people who think of themselves as Russians and speak Russian, what other facts do you need? I am not saying that it was absolutely right to "annex" this territory now, but I can't disagree with the fact that russian people live there. You're simply wrong. Someone linked a study earlier that before sothe Maidan only 40% in Crimea even identified as Russian. Why would the other 60% want to join Russia if they don't see themself as one. Ok, read studies. I talk to ppl who actually live in Ukraine. Moreover I live in Belarus and frequently visit Ukraine, so I am somewhat aware of the situation. Who do you think I believe? I don't know, facts seem more important to me. link to the post If that is so, do come to Ukraine and ask ppl in the streets. I think that would get you as closest to the facts as possible than any study you may read. Yes, because who needs the scientific method to determine anything if we can just wing it.
extrapolating opinion from one poll paid for by usaid scientific method?
myminerals is much better src, he even says something that aligns with my opinion.
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
well those were 18th century ways. the identity of nations persist but the people running the ship has changed. you dont revert to medieval morality just because some ancestor did this or that.
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well, i wouldn't bet my ass on it.
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On March 19 2014 00:52 nunez wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2014 21:20 RvB wrote:On March 18 2014 21:16 myminerals wrote:On March 18 2014 19:39 RvB wrote:On March 18 2014 18:39 myminerals wrote:On March 18 2014 17:28 Silvanel wrote:
Polish media reports that turnout during referendum in Sevastopol was 124%. 474k votes cats while theres 383k people registred in Sevastopol. Pretty funny that they still make those kinds of mistakes, i mean they should be pretty good at faking votings right now. Hell, why did they even bother? The general popultion was in favor of being anexed anyway.
Also some people who were against anexation are being evicted from their homes. I am sure that 80% if not more of Crimea citizens would like to join Russia. Above that, the same thing can be said for all eastern cities of Ukraine, such as Donetsk or Dnipropetrovsk, Kharkiv and many others. Rigged or not this referendum does not prove anything. Crimea has always been a Russian territory with people who think of themselves as Russians and speak Russian, what other facts do you need? I am not saying that it was absolutely right to "annex" this territory now, but I can't disagree with the fact that russian people live there. You're simply wrong. Someone linked a study earlier that before the Maidan only 40% in Crimea even identified as Russian. Why would the other 60% want to join Russia if they don't see themself as one. Ok, read studies. I talk to ppl who actually live in Ukraine. Moreover I live in Belarus and frequently visit Ukraine, so I am somewhat aware of the situation. Who do you think I believe? I don't know, facts seem more important to me. link to the post this study shows pro-russia sentiment and is before the ousting of the elected president, that most of them probably voted for, by a movement that includes, has not at any point distanced itself from and has even appointed positions in governement to the far-right who are vehemently anti-russian. i'd bet your ass the majority of crimea are gunning to jump ship. Show nested quote +On March 18 2014 22:15 Derez wrote:On March 18 2014 22:11 myminerals wrote:On March 18 2014 21:20 RvB wrote:On March 18 2014 21:16 myminerals wrote:On March 18 2014 19:39 RvB wrote:On March 18 2014 18:39 myminerals wrote:On March 18 2014 17:28 Silvanel wrote:
Polish media reports that turnout during referendum in Sevastopol was 124%. 474k votes cats while theres 383k people registred in Sevastopol. Pretty funny that they still make those kinds of mistakes, i mean they should be pretty good at faking votings right now. Hell, why did they even bother? The general popultion was in favor of being anexed anyway.
Also some people who were against anexation are being evicted from their homes. I am sure that 80% if not more of Crimea citizens would like to join Russia. Above that, the same thing can be said for all eastern cities of Ukraine, such as Donetsk or Dnipropetrovsk, Kharkiv and many others. Rigged or not this referendum does not prove anything. Crimea has always been a Russian territory with people who think of themselves as Russians and speak Russian, what other facts do you need? I am not saying that it was absolutely right to "annex" this territory now, but I can't disagree with the fact that russian people live there. You're simply wrong. Someone linked a study earlier that before sothe Maidan only 40% in Crimea even identified as Russian. Why would the other 60% want to join Russia if they don't see themself as one. Ok, read studies. I talk to ppl who actually live in Ukraine. Moreover I live in Belarus and frequently visit Ukraine, so I am somewhat aware of the situation. Who do you think I believe? I don't know, facts seem more important to me. link to the post If that is so, do come to Ukraine and ask ppl in the streets. I think that would get you as closest to the facts as possible than any study you may read. Yes, because who needs the scientific method to determine anything if we can just wing it. extrapolating opinion from one poll paid for by usaid scientific method? myminerals is much better src, he even says something that aligns with my opinion.
Unless you can point out some flaws in the study, I'd much rather extrapolate opinion from its 1,200 participants than from whatever sample size myminerals knows and/or talks to, no offense. And though the poll shows that a majority of Crimeans showed a 'warm' attitude towards Russia at the time, the overwhelming sentiment you speak of doesn't reflect in the percentages in the answer to what the future of Crimea should be. So pro-Russian sentiment does not necessarily mean wanting to join with Russia.
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
the length some people who purport to care about justice and minor party rights are willing to go to defend russia on this issue is honestly amazing. everything that is not on the side of baddie america must be angelic or at any rate our guys. good fucking game when the world is run by ur guys putin and china.
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On March 19 2014 01:06 Warfie wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2014 00:52 nunez wrote:On March 18 2014 21:20 RvB wrote:On March 18 2014 21:16 myminerals wrote:On March 18 2014 19:39 RvB wrote:On March 18 2014 18:39 myminerals wrote:On March 18 2014 17:28 Silvanel wrote:
Polish media reports that turnout during referendum in Sevastopol was 124%. 474k votes cats while theres 383k people registred in Sevastopol. Pretty funny that they still make those kinds of mistakes, i mean they should be pretty good at faking votings right now. Hell, why did they even bother? The general popultion was in favor of being anexed anyway.
Also some people who were against anexation are being evicted from their homes. I am sure that 80% if not more of Crimea citizens would like to join Russia. Above that, the same thing can be said for all eastern cities of Ukraine, such as Donetsk or Dnipropetrovsk, Kharkiv and many others. Rigged or not this referendum does not prove anything. Crimea has always been a Russian territory with people who think of themselves as Russians and speak Russian, what other facts do you need? I am not saying that it was absolutely right to "annex" this territory now, but I can't disagree with the fact that russian people live there. You're simply wrong. Someone linked a study earlier that before the Maidan only 40% in Crimea even identified as Russian. Why would the other 60% want to join Russia if they don't see themself as one. Ok, read studies. I talk to ppl who actually live in Ukraine. Moreover I live in Belarus and frequently visit Ukraine, so I am somewhat aware of the situation. Who do you think I believe? I don't know, facts seem more important to me. link to the post this study shows pro-russia sentiment and is before the ousting of the elected president, that most of them probably voted for, by a movement that includes, has not at any point distanced itself from and has even appointed positions in governement to the far-right who are vehemently anti-russian. i'd bet your ass the majority of crimea are gunning to jump ship. On March 18 2014 22:15 Derez wrote:On March 18 2014 22:11 myminerals wrote:On March 18 2014 21:20 RvB wrote:On March 18 2014 21:16 myminerals wrote:On March 18 2014 19:39 RvB wrote:On March 18 2014 18:39 myminerals wrote:On March 18 2014 17:28 Silvanel wrote:
Polish media reports that turnout during referendum in Sevastopol was 124%. 474k votes cats while theres 383k people registred in Sevastopol. Pretty funny that they still make those kinds of mistakes, i mean they should be pretty good at faking votings right now. Hell, why did they even bother? The general popultion was in favor of being anexed anyway.
Also some people who were against anexation are being evicted from their homes. I am sure that 80% if not more of Crimea citizens would like to join Russia. Above that, the same thing can be said for all eastern cities of Ukraine, such as Donetsk or Dnipropetrovsk, Kharkiv and many others. Rigged or not this referendum does not prove anything. Crimea has always been a Russian territory with people who think of themselves as Russians and speak Russian, what other facts do you need? I am not saying that it was absolutely right to "annex" this territory now, but I can't disagree with the fact that russian people live there. You're simply wrong. Someone linked a study earlier that before sothe Maidan only 40% in Crimea even identified as Russian. Why would the other 60% want to join Russia if they don't see themself as one. Ok, read studies. I talk to ppl who actually live in Ukraine. Moreover I live in Belarus and frequently visit Ukraine, so I am somewhat aware of the situation. Who do you think I believe? I don't know, facts seem more important to me. link to the post If that is so, do come to Ukraine and ask ppl in the streets. I think that would get you as closest to the facts as possible than any study you may read. Yes, because who needs the scientific method to determine anything if we can just wing it. extrapolating opinion from one poll paid for by usaid scientific method? myminerals is much better src, he even says something that aligns with my opinion. Unless you can point out some flaws in the study, I'd much rather extrapolate opinion from its 1,200 participants than from whatever sample size myminerals knows and/or talks to, no offense. And though the poll shows that a majority of Crimeans showed a 'warm' attitude towards Russia at the time, the overwhelming sentiment you speak of doesn't reflect in the percentages in the answer to what the future of Crimea should be. So pro-Russian sentiment does not necessarily mean wanting to join with Russia.
OK, looked at the study. Pay very close attention to the methodology section.
"The survey was conducted by the Baltic Surveys/Gallup on behalf of the International Republican Institute. The fieldwork was carried out by Rating Group Ukraine. The fieldwork was done during May 16 – 30, 2013, through face - to - face in - home interviews with the respondents. The survey was conducted in the Autonomous Republic of Crimea, including the capital and all major regional centers and the city of Sevastopol."
OK so start from this Baltic Surveys Group.
Based in Lituania it is a member of American Chamber of Commerce and Lithuanian-British Chamber of Commerce. It is also funded by Gallup which is an American company http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gallup_(company)
Now to the more interesting bit - the International Republican Institute, oh boy.
Founded in 1983, the International Republican Institute (IRI) is an organisation, funded by the United States government, that conducts international political programs, sometimes called 'democratization programs'.[2]
Initially known as the National Republican Institute for International Affairs, the IRI's stated mission is to "expand freedom throughout the world". Its activities include teaching and assisting with right-wing political party and candidate development in their values, "good governance" practices, civil society development, civic education, women’s and youth leadership development, electoral reform and election monitoring, and political expression in closed societies. It has been chaired by former presidential candidate John McCain since January 1993.[1][3]
IRI was involved in Haiti prior to the 2004 Haitian coup d'état,[4] in Honduras following the 2009 Coup d'état,[5][not in citation given] attempting to normalize and legitimize it, organized conservative political parties in Poland,[6] and has been involved in political activities in Egypt during the Arab Spring.[7]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Republican_Institute
The fieldwork was carried out by Rating Group Ukraine, which surprise surprise, has its headquarters in Lviv.
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On March 19 2014 01:11 oneofthem wrote:
the length some people who purport to care about justice and minor party rights are willing to go to defend russia on this issue is honestly amazing. everything that is not on the side of baddie america must be angelic or at any rate our guys. good fucking game when the world is run by ur guys putin and china.
I don't think it is correct to say Crimea is a part of Ukraine historically and culturally. It never was.
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So, how hard is it to join NATO?
Because if i were a country bordering Russia, i would try to do that really quickly right about now.
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On March 19 2014 01:28 myminerals wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2014 01:11 oneofthem wrote:
the length some people who purport to care about justice and minor party rights are willing to go to defend russia on this issue is honestly amazing. everything that is not on the side of baddie america must be angelic or at any rate our guys. good fucking game when the world is run by ur guys putin and china. I don't think it is correct to say Crimea is a part of Ukraine historically and culturally. It never was.
And I don't think that that justifies an armed invasion in any way.
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On March 19 2014 01:28 myminerals wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2014 01:11 oneofthem wrote:
the length some people who purport to care about justice and minor party rights are willing to go to defend russia on this issue is honestly amazing. everything that is not on the side of baddie america must be angelic or at any rate our guys. good fucking game when the world is run by ur guys putin and china. I don't think it is correct to say Crimea is a part of Ukraine historically and culturally. It never was.
I don't think most Europeans in the 18th century had "Medieval morality" either, but one learns to be patient and just smile and nod when oneofthem paints with his tardy and inaccurate paintbrush.
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On March 19 2014 01:24 zeo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2014 01:06 Warfie wrote:On March 19 2014 00:52 nunez wrote:On March 18 2014 21:20 RvB wrote:On March 18 2014 21:16 myminerals wrote:On March 18 2014 19:39 RvB wrote:On March 18 2014 18:39 myminerals wrote:On March 18 2014 17:28 Silvanel wrote:
Polish media reports that turnout during referendum in Sevastopol was 124%. 474k votes cats while theres 383k people registred in Sevastopol. Pretty funny that they still make those kinds of mistakes, i mean they should be pretty good at faking votings right now. Hell, why did they even bother? The general popultion was in favor of being anexed anyway.
Also some people who were against anexation are being evicted from their homes. I am sure that 80% if not more of Crimea citizens would like to join Russia. Above that, the same thing can be said for all eastern cities of Ukraine, such as Donetsk or Dnipropetrovsk, Kharkiv and many others. Rigged or not this referendum does not prove anything. Crimea has always been a Russian territory with people who think of themselves as Russians and speak Russian, what other facts do you need? I am not saying that it was absolutely right to "annex" this territory now, but I can't disagree with the fact that russian people live there. You're simply wrong. Someone linked a study earlier that before the Maidan only 40% in Crimea even identified as Russian. Why would the other 60% want to join Russia if they don't see themself as one. Ok, read studies. I talk to ppl who actually live in Ukraine. Moreover I live in Belarus and frequently visit Ukraine, so I am somewhat aware of the situation. Who do you think I believe? I don't know, facts seem more important to me. link to the post this study shows pro-russia sentiment and is before the ousting of the elected president, that most of them probably voted for, by a movement that includes, has not at any point distanced itself from and has even appointed positions in governement to the far-right who are vehemently anti-russian. i'd bet your ass the majority of crimea are gunning to jump ship. On March 18 2014 22:15 Derez wrote:On March 18 2014 22:11 myminerals wrote:On March 18 2014 21:20 RvB wrote:On March 18 2014 21:16 myminerals wrote:On March 18 2014 19:39 RvB wrote:On March 18 2014 18:39 myminerals wrote:On March 18 2014 17:28 Silvanel wrote:
Polish media reports that turnout during referendum in Sevastopol was 124%. 474k votes cats while theres 383k people registred in Sevastopol. Pretty funny that they still make those kinds of mistakes, i mean they should be pretty good at faking votings right now. Hell, why did they even bother? The general popultion was in favor of being anexed anyway.
Also some people who were against anexation are being evicted from their homes. I am sure that 80% if not more of Crimea citizens would like to join Russia. Above that, the same thing can be said for all eastern cities of Ukraine, such as Donetsk or Dnipropetrovsk, Kharkiv and many others. Rigged or not this referendum does not prove anything. Crimea has always been a Russian territory with people who think of themselves as Russians and speak Russian, what other facts do you need? I am not saying that it was absolutely right to "annex" this territory now, but I can't disagree with the fact that russian people live there. You're simply wrong. Someone linked a study earlier that before sothe Maidan only 40% in Crimea even identified as Russian. Why would the other 60% want to join Russia if they don't see themself as one. Ok, read studies. I talk to ppl who actually live in Ukraine. Moreover I live in Belarus and frequently visit Ukraine, so I am somewhat aware of the situation. Who do you think I believe? I don't know, facts seem more important to me. link to the post If that is so, do come to Ukraine and ask ppl in the streets. I think that would get you as closest to the facts as possible than any study you may read. Yes, because who needs the scientific method to determine anything if we can just wing it. extrapolating opinion from one poll paid for by usaid scientific method? myminerals is much better src, he even says something that aligns with my opinion. Unless you can point out some flaws in the study, I'd much rather extrapolate opinion from its 1,200 participants than from whatever sample size myminerals knows and/or talks to, no offense. And though the poll shows that a majority of Crimeans showed a 'warm' attitude towards Russia at the time, the overwhelming sentiment you speak of doesn't reflect in the percentages in the answer to what the future of Crimea should be. So pro-Russian sentiment does not necessarily mean wanting to join with Russia. OK, looked at the study. Pay very close attention to the methodology section. "The survey was conducted by the Baltic Surveys/Gallup on behalf of the International Republican Institute. The fieldwork was carried out by Rating Group Ukraine. The fieldwork was done during May 16 – 30, 2013, through face - to - face in - home interviews with the respondents. The survey was conducted in the Autonomous Republic of Crimea, including the capital and all major regional centers and the city of Sevastopol." OK so start from this Baltic Surveys Group. Based in Lituania it is a member of American Chamber of Commerce and Lithuanian-British Chamber of Commerce. It is also funded by Gallup which is an American company http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gallup_(company)Now to the more interesting bit - the International Republican Institute, oh boy. Show nested quote +
Founded in 1983, the International Republican Institute (IRI) is an organisation, funded by the United States government, that conducts international political programs, sometimes called 'democratization programs'.[2]
Initially known as the National Republican Institute for International Affairs, the IRI's stated mission is to "expand freedom throughout the world". Its activities include teaching and assisting with right-wing political party and candidate development in their values, "good governance" practices, civil society development, civic education, women’s and youth leadership development, electoral reform and election monitoring, and political expression in closed societies. It has been chaired by former presidential candidate John McCain since January 1993.[1][3]
IRI was involved in Haiti prior to the 2004 Haitian coup d'état,[4] in Honduras following the 2009 Coup d'état,[5][not in citation given] attempting to normalize and legitimize it, organized conservative political parties in Poland,[6] and has been involved in political activities in Egypt during the Arab Spring.[7]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Republican_InstituteThe fieldwork was carried out by Rating Group Ukraine, which surprise surprise, has its headquarters in Lviv.
hah, that's why if you want to know the truth look out of your window once in a while.
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Your window provides no more an accurate picture of the world than any other portal.
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Canada13395 Posts
My only issue with the referendum is the following:
With the contentious political climate surrounding it internationally some sort of third party not involved in the rhetoric should have conducted the referendum.
It also should have been conducted without the russian troops in Crimea. Send all troops from both russia and ukraine back to their respective military bases for the duration of the referendum. Prior to the referendum prepare a way for the armed forces of the country that doesnt win the referendum to leave peacefully within a timeline.
IDK in no world could a referendum be seen as "fair" from both sides. Sadly, this whole thing is too much of a mess to disentangle.
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Russian troops together with "self-defense" units assaulted some of the ukrainian military facilities in Crimea. At least one soldier was shot dead.
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On March 19 2014 01:30 SilentchiLL wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2014 01:28 myminerals wrote:On March 19 2014 01:11 oneofthem wrote:
the length some people who purport to care about justice and minor party rights are willing to go to defend russia on this issue is honestly amazing. everything that is not on the side of baddie america must be angelic or at any rate our guys. good fucking game when the world is run by ur guys putin and china. I don't think it is correct to say Crimea is a part of Ukraine historically and culturally. It never was. And I don't think that that justifies an armed invasion in any way.
It does not.
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wasn't march 21 the deadline?
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On March 19 2014 01:31 myminerals wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2014 01:24 zeo wrote:On March 19 2014 01:06 Warfie wrote:On March 19 2014 00:52 nunez wrote:On March 18 2014 21:20 RvB wrote:On March 18 2014 21:16 myminerals wrote:On March 18 2014 19:39 RvB wrote:On March 18 2014 18:39 myminerals wrote:On March 18 2014 17:28 Silvanel wrote:
Polish media reports that turnout during referendum in Sevastopol was 124%. 474k votes cats while theres 383k people registred in Sevastopol. Pretty funny that they still make those kinds of mistakes, i mean they should be pretty good at faking votings right now. Hell, why did they even bother? The general popultion was in favor of being anexed anyway.
Also some people who were against anexation are being evicted from their homes. I am sure that 80% if not more of Crimea citizens would like to join Russia. Above that, the same thing can be said for all eastern cities of Ukraine, such as Donetsk or Dnipropetrovsk, Kharkiv and many others. Rigged or not this referendum does not prove anything. Crimea has always been a Russian territory with people who think of themselves as Russians and speak Russian, what other facts do you need? I am not saying that it was absolutely right to "annex" this territory now, but I can't disagree with the fact that russian people live there. You're simply wrong. Someone linked a study earlier that before the Maidan only 40% in Crimea even identified as Russian. Why would the other 60% want to join Russia if they don't see themself as one. Ok, read studies. I talk to ppl who actually live in Ukraine. Moreover I live in Belarus and frequently visit Ukraine, so I am somewhat aware of the situation. Who do you think I believe? I don't know, facts seem more important to me. link to the post this study shows pro-russia sentiment and is before the ousting of the elected president, that most of them probably voted for, by a movement that includes, has not at any point distanced itself from and has even appointed positions in governement to the far-right who are vehemently anti-russian. i'd bet your ass the majority of crimea are gunning to jump ship. On March 18 2014 22:15 Derez wrote:On March 18 2014 22:11 myminerals wrote:On March 18 2014 21:20 RvB wrote:On March 18 2014 21:16 myminerals wrote:On March 18 2014 19:39 RvB wrote:On March 18 2014 18:39 myminerals wrote:
[quote]
I am sure that 80% if not more of Crimea citizens would like to join Russia. Above that, the same thing can be said for all eastern cities of Ukraine, such as Donetsk or Dnipropetrovsk, Kharkiv and many others.
Rigged or not this referendum does not prove anything. Crimea has always been a Russian territory with people who think of themselves as Russians and speak Russian, what other facts do you need?
I am not saying that it was absolutely right to "annex" this territory now, but I can't disagree with the fact that russian people live there.
You're simply wrong. Someone linked a study earlier that before sothe Maidan only 40% in Crimea even identified as Russian. Why would the other 60% want to join Russia if they don't see themself as one. Ok, read studies. I talk to ppl who actually live in Ukraine. Moreover I live in Belarus and frequently visit Ukraine, so I am somewhat aware of the situation. Who do you think I believe? I don't know, facts seem more important to me. link to the post If that is so, do come to Ukraine and ask ppl in the streets. I think that would get you as closest to the facts as possible than any study you may read. Yes, because who needs the scientific method to determine anything if we can just wing it. extrapolating opinion from one poll paid for by usaid scientific method? myminerals is much better src, he even says something that aligns with my opinion. Unless you can point out some flaws in the study, I'd much rather extrapolate opinion from its 1,200 participants than from whatever sample size myminerals knows and/or talks to, no offense. And though the poll shows that a majority of Crimeans showed a 'warm' attitude towards Russia at the time, the overwhelming sentiment you speak of doesn't reflect in the percentages in the answer to what the future of Crimea should be. So pro-Russian sentiment does not necessarily mean wanting to join with Russia. OK, looked at the study. Pay very close attention to the methodology section. "The survey was conducted by the Baltic Surveys/Gallup on behalf of the International Republican Institute. The fieldwork was carried out by Rating Group Ukraine. The fieldwork was done during May 16 – 30, 2013, through face - to - face in - home interviews with the respondents. The survey was conducted in the Autonomous Republic of Crimea, including the capital and all major regional centers and the city of Sevastopol." OK so start from this Baltic Surveys Group. Based in Lituania it is a member of American Chamber of Commerce and Lithuanian-British Chamber of Commerce. It is also funded by Gallup which is an American company http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gallup_(company)Now to the more interesting bit - the International Republican Institute, oh boy.
Founded in 1983, the International Republican Institute (IRI) is an organisation, funded by the United States government, that conducts international political programs, sometimes called 'democratization programs'.[2]
Initially known as the National Republican Institute for International Affairs, the IRI's stated mission is to "expand freedom throughout the world". Its activities include teaching and assisting with right-wing political party and candidate development in their values, "good governance" practices, civil society development, civic education, women’s and youth leadership development, electoral reform and election monitoring, and political expression in closed societies. It has been chaired by former presidential candidate John McCain since January 1993.[1][3]
IRI was involved in Haiti prior to the 2004 Haitian coup d'état,[4] in Honduras following the 2009 Coup d'état,[5][not in citation given] attempting to normalize and legitimize it, organized conservative political parties in Poland,[6] and has been involved in political activities in Egypt during the Arab Spring.[7]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Republican_InstituteThe fieldwork was carried out by Rating Group Ukraine, which surprise surprise, has its headquarters in Lviv. hah, that's why if you want to know the truth look out of your window once in a while.
7% more tatars being asked the second time around looks a bit conspicuous. that's a good strat if you wanted to doctor some trends (just change in ethnic composition and having a poll option they'll go for)...
if you're willing to neglect bias until someone other than yourself does fact-checking i have some more recent russian 'polls' with more ppl asked with 70% and 80%+ in favor of joining russia... ;>
by 'polls' i mean not actual you polls, but claims that polls have been conducted.
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On March 19 2014 01:32 farvacola wrote:
Your window provides no more an accurate picture of the world than any other portal.
yes, I like philosophizing too.
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Ukrainian geodesist-soldier was shot while sturm of cartographic military base by russians. Possibly with sniper rifle.
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EPT
