EPTUkraine Crisis - Page 332
| Forum Index > Closed |
There is a new policy in effect in this thread. Anyone not complying will be moderated. New policy, please read before posting: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=21393711 | ||
|
Mc
332 Posts
| ||
|
Saihv
Finland54 Posts
On March 18 2014 04:42 Nyxisto wrote: Word on the streets is Finland poses huge danger to St. Petersburg.. but pshhh don't tell anybody On paper Finland has larger army than UK+France+Germany combined at least when ONLY looking at currently active and in reserve soldiers - conscription based army. Potential trainable manpower or hardware wise its a different story of course. Lets see if Putin aims to establish soviet borders and/or Imperial Russia borders as the true secret personal goal. As Finland was a autonomic duchy within Imperial Russia after Russia took this piece of land from Sweden. Maybe Finland should ask Sweden to take Finland back. Maybe then we'd be safe from Putin because Swedes ruled over us a lot longer ;D | ||
|
TheBloodyDwarf
Finland7524 Posts
On March 18 2014 05:11 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote: A lot of my friends and friends of my family in Europe dislike it a lot. For example, they think that if Germany had marka still, everything could be better. And guys in Latvia, Poland and other countries dislike it as well. Just curious. Marka would be bad for germany. Struggling euro nations keep value of euro way lower than without them. | ||
|
TheBloodyDwarf
Finland7524 Posts
On March 18 2014 05:19 Saihv wrote: On paper Finland has larger army than UK+France+Germany combined at least when ONLY looking at currently active and in reserve soldiers - conscription based army. Potential trainable manpower or hardware wise its a different story of course. Lets see if Putin aims to establish soviet borders and/or Imperial Russia borders as the true secret personal goal. As Finland was a autonomic duchy within Imperial Russia after Russia took this piece of land from Sweden. Maybe Finland should ask Sweden to take Finland back. Maybe then we'd be safe from Putin because Swedes ruled over us a lot longer ;D I think finland has the biggest artillery is europe? | ||
|
Nyxisto
Germany6287 Posts
On March 18 2014 05:19 Saihv wrote: On paper Finland has larger army than UK+France+Germany combined at least when ONLY looking at currently active and in reserve soldiers - conscription based army. Potential trainable manpower or hardware wise its a different story of course. Lets see if Putin aims to establish soviet borders and/or Imperial Russia borders as the true secret personal goal. As Finland was a autonomic duchy within Imperial Russia after Russia took this piece of land from Sweden. Maybe Finland should ask Sweden to take Finland back. Maybe then we'd be safe from Putin because Swedes ruled over us a lot longer ;D Given the historical evidence I'm quite convinced you won't need that many soldiers after all | ||
|
DeepElemBlues
United States5079 Posts
On March 18 2014 05:14 Mc wrote: http://oilprice.com/Energy/Natural-Gas/Gas-Wars-Will-US-Export-LNG-to-Europe.html http://wyborcza.pl/1,75477,15582028,Stany_Zjednoczone_szachuja_Kreml_gazem.html So better than sanctions would be the USA selling it's shale gas to the EU. If you didn't know the USA is the biggest energy producer in the world (thanks to fracking/shale-gas), but we don't sell abroad (yet) primarily due to the manufacturing lobby wanting to keep energy prices low. The oil lobby of course wants to sell abroad  It would take a few years to build up the infrastructure, and wouldn't make Europe independent on Russian gas but it would definitely drive prices down and *really* hurt Russia. I'm surprised so little has been made of this. Sooo, the companies some of us hate (shell,Exxon, etc.) could be big factors in fighting Russia's choke-hold on Europe. US is going to loosen export controls after 2016 whether it's a Republican or Hilary who is president. Unfortunately that is 2 years away... Obama will loosen them some in a month or two he was going to do that anyway but not enough for US shale gas to flood Europe. USSR in the 1980s was really beaten by Reagan spending lots of money on US military that the USSR tried to match, and Reagan convincing the Saudis to get OPEC to flood the world with oil. USSR depended heavily on oil sales. After a decade of spending more money on the Soviet Navy mostly and getting less and less oil money to prop up their fucked-up economy the USSR was a shell. We should do the same thing to Putin and we probably will - we don't need to spend more on our military and have Putin try to match it, he's increased Russian defense spending by a ton and will continue to do so regardless. Cut off a big part of Russia's revenue - a large proportion of its gas sales to Europe - by replacing it with US gas and Russia will again become a shell, Russia is weaker now than it was in 1981 and the US and Europe are richer and stronger as well. And instead of making jihadi lovers in Arabia rich it'll make Americans and Europeans rich. I hope the US starts selling Europe all the gas it wants very soon but it's gonna take years unfortunately in any case. | ||
|
Sub40APM
6336 Posts
Indeed, the attempt by the EU and America to co-ordinate their announcement on March 17th of sanctions against Russian officials served mostly to highlight their differences. America’s list of seven Russian and four Ukrainian officials subject to visa bans and seizure of assets overlapped with the EU’s 21 names. But the American list included, crucially, three figures from President Vladimir Putin's inner circle—among them Dimitry Rogozin, Russia’s deputy prime minister, as well as two presidential advisers, Vladislav Surkov and Sergey Glazyev—which the EU omitted. One reason for the European reticence, said diplomats in Brussels, was the internal division among doves (among them Italy, Spain and Cyprus) and hawks (particularly Britain, Poland and the Baltic states). Another was the need to have a legally sound list that would stand up in court. A third, in Europe and America, was the desire for a list that leaves room for dialogue with Mr Putin’s officials as well as room to escalate by adding more names if necessary. So the EU actually didnt put anyone even remotely relevant to Putin on their list at all. | ||
|
DeepElemBlues
United States5079 Posts
On March 18 2014 04:03 Ghanburighan wrote: On March 18 2014 05:26 Sub40APM wrote: http://www.economist.com/blogs/charlemagne/2014/03/eu-and-russia-sanctions So the EU actually didnt put anyone even remotely relevant to Putin on their list at all. This is not just bashing the president he is going farther than Europe but not going far enough to bring Europe with him. I'm sure they're concerned about being left exposed by a later possible retreat on the confrontation with Russia. America can do that the Atlantic is in the way, Russia is right there on Europe's doorstep. Europeans also have memories of the Americans going over their heads with the Russians like in the Suez War. All of that and more makes them more cautious. | ||
|
Nyxisto
Germany6287 Posts
On March 18 2014 05:23 DeepElemBlues wrote: I hope the US starts selling Europe all the gas it wants very soon but it's gonna take years unfortunately in any case. Another important thing would be to finally finish the nabucco pipeline and get Iran back on the radar. If I'm not mistaken they have the second biggest gas reserves worldwide. Europe should really look to switch from Russia towards Middle-East/Norway/US to secure their resources. Gas and Oil and nukes are basically the only thing Russia has left to pressure with, taking the first two away would really help. | ||
|
Luolis
Finland7170 Posts
On March 18 2014 04:33 Sub40APM wrote: Dont you mean, North West Russia? Finland has been Russian for 100 years and independent only for ~80, and I hear you like oppressing Russians too. And you were with the fascists in World War 2. Better be nice to your neighbors, otherwise they might liberate you too. We were with the fascists since it was the only chance we had, lol. | ||
|
Dav1oN
Ukraine3164 Posts
 | ||
|
Deleted User 137586
7859 Posts
On March 18 2014 05:56 cSc.Dav1oN wrote: There is a possibility that soon I could be mobilized in national guard, who can send me some NATO ammunition and equipment? 9 mm semi-automatic rifle would be fine, ammo, helmet and kevlar, AUG would be fine tho. Mr. Obama, do u hear me? He heard you already. | ||
|
Maenander
Germany4926 Posts
On March 18 2014 04:21 Roman666 wrote: The downside is that they can't get to an agreement having 28 member states, imagine what it would be with 58. With proper organization it would be no problem. Smaller players would have more pressure to cooperate to get things done. It's the big countries that hamper progress towards a more effective European Union. Economically, the size and population of a country doesn't really matter much. Look at small countries like Switzerland, Denmark or Austria, they are all very successful (i.e. more successful than Germany). But apparently some people (at least in this thread) still dream of something like a unified Panslavic behemoth and think that it would bring a better future. | ||
|
Roman666
Poland1440 Posts
On March 18 2014 05:56 cSc.Dav1oN wrote: There is a possibility that soon I could be mobilized in national guard, who can send me some NATO ammunition and equipment? 9 mm semi-automatic rifle would be fine, ammo, helmet and kevlar, AUG would be fine tho. Mr. Obama, do u hear me? Actually there were some rumours of US sending weapons to Kiev, but I can't find any source now. Perhaps you will get your M16 too. On a serious note, I hope you guys won't have to fight. | ||
|
Sub40APM
6336 Posts
On March 18 2014 05:56 cSc.Dav1oN wrote: There is a possibility that soon I could be mobilized in national guard, who can send me some NATO ammunition and equipment? 9 mm semi-automatic rifle would be fine, ammo, helmet and kevlar, AUG would be fine tho. Mr. Obama, do u hear me? But its only 20,000, what are the odds that in a country of 46 -- I guess 44 now that Crimea is cut away -- you get called up? Plus chances are youll get old Polish stuff, just like the Ukrainian army trains with the Polish army for foreign service -- ie when they went to Ukraine they were under Polish command -- because their equipment is more interchangeable with what Ukraine has than American/Western stuff. | ||
|
Dav1oN
Ukraine3164 Posts
On March 18 2014 06:02 Roman666 wrote: Actually there were some rumours of US sending weapons to Kiev, but I can't find any source now. Perhaps you will get your M16 too. On a serious note, I hope you guys won't have to fight. Yea, sure, everybody hopes for a peacefull end of this. I never liked m4a1  | ||
|
kwizach
3658 Posts
On March 18 2014 05:23 DeepElemBlues wrote: US is going to loosen export controls after 2016 whether it's a Republican or Hilary who is president. Unfortunately that is 2 years away... Obama will loosen them some in a month or two he was going to do that anyway but not enough for US shale gas to flood Europe. USSR in the 1980s was really beaten by Reagan spending lots of money on US military that the USSR tried to match The biggest factors were the Soviet economic model being inefficient on the long run, the popular movements for political change in Eastern Europe and the fact that Gorbachev's policies of reform only encouraged them to push further. Reagan's pressure in terms of levels of armament and support for the Mujahideen in Afghanistan contributed as well but they were not the driving forces. | ||
|
Dav1oN
Ukraine3164 Posts
On March 18 2014 06:06 Sub40APM wrote: But its only 20,000, what are the odds that in a country of 46 -- I guess 44 now that Crimea is cut away -- you get called up? Plus chances are youll get old Polish stuff, just like the Ukrainian army trains with the Polish army for foreign service -- ie when they went to Ukraine they were under Polish command -- because their equipment is more interchangeable with what Ukraine has than American/Western stuff. I've got two friends that already been called in regular army today, but it is a regular army, not national guard tho. | ||
|
Sub40APM
6336 Posts
On March 18 2014 06:09 cSc.Dav1oN wrote: I've got two friends that already been called in regular army today, but it is a regular army, not national guard tho. Did they already go through voinkomat or just random guys? | ||
|
Deleted User 183001
2939 Posts
On March 18 2014 05:44 Nyxisto wrote: Another important thing would be to finally finish the nabucco pipeline and get Iran back on the radar. If I'm not mistaken they have the second biggest gas reserves worldwide. Europe should really look to switch from Russia towards Middle-East/Norway/US to secure their resources. Gas and Oil and nukes are basically the only thing Russia has left to pressure with, taking the first two away would really help. The EU and US refused offers from Iran to supply gas. The primarily supplier for Nabucco will be Iraq. I don't know why you're promoting a crazed terrorist state anyways. In any case, I think having a wolf among toy poodles is more than pressuring enough. We can see even right now, the EU is incapable of doing anything, as much as keeping Ukraine away from Russia is within their political interests. And speaking of oil, Russia is eating up Germany's energy industry as we speak, with RWE. Giving the Russians a seat of power in Germany isn't good, but hey, this is how economics work. Russian output today is the same as its high a few years ago. IIRC, they're investing a lot into developing other industries too; also in the process of opening up markets in Asia, so it makes sense. | ||
| ||
4 out of 13 houses in my street, detached houses. I live in east Finland. But that's completely different topic. At russians holidays there are more russians cars on road than finnish cars in east Finland :/ (And they cant drive a car...)
