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On March 18 2014 06:16 JudicatorHammurabi wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2014 05:44 Nyxisto wrote:On March 18 2014 05:23 DeepElemBlues wrote:
I hope the US starts selling Europe all the gas it wants very soon but it's gonna take years unfortunately in any case. Another important thing would be to finally finish the nabucco pipeline and get Iran back on the radar. If I'm not mistaken they have the second biggest gas reserves worldwide. Europe should really look to switch from Russia towards Middle-East/Norway/US to secure their resources. Gas and Oil and nukes are basically the only thing Russia has left to pressure with, taking the first two away would really help. . And speaking of oil, Russia is eating up Germany's energy industry as we speak, with RWE. Their output today is the same as its high a few years ago. IIRC, they're also opening up Asian markets for energy sales and investing a lot into developing other industries too.
You mean...Russian oligarchs are putting more of their wealth where it can be easily reached? Oh no, the horror.
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On March 18 2014 06:16 JudicatorHammurabi wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2014 05:44 Nyxisto wrote:On March 18 2014 05:23 DeepElemBlues wrote:
I hope the US starts selling Europe all the gas it wants very soon but it's gonna take years unfortunately in any case. Another important thing would be to finally finish the nabucco pipeline and get Iran back on the radar. If I'm not mistaken they have the second biggest gas reserves worldwide. Europe should really look to switch from Russia towards Middle-East/Norway/US to secure their resources. Gas and Oil and nukes are basically the only thing Russia has left to pressure with, taking the first two away would really help. The EU and US refused offers from Iran to supply gas. The primarily supplier for Nabucco will be Iraq. I don't know why you're promoting a crazed terrorist state anyways.
You know we're calling the Saudis our allies right? The Iran might not be exactly a humanists utopia, but if the West is willing to make deals with Saudi - Arabia I'm pretty sure Iran is an option.
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http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/03/17/russia-will-sanction-u-s-officials.html
Other names that could be on the Russian sanctions list, although not confirmed, include Sens. Robert Menendez (D-NJ) and Bob Corker (R-TN), the leaders of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee who are leading the sanctions drive in the Senate, and Victoria Nuland, the Assistant Secretary of State for Europe, who has been heavily involved in working with the Ukrainian opposition that ousted the Yanokovich government.
I pity the Russian Foreign Ministry guy who was trying to explain to Putin how Senators in the United States and Senators in Russia are different. Putin the great unifier, first he unifies East and West Ukrainians and now he unifies Republicans and Democrats.
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On March 18 2014 06:20 Nyxisto wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2014 06:16 JudicatorHammurabi wrote:On March 18 2014 05:44 Nyxisto wrote:On March 18 2014 05:23 DeepElemBlues wrote:
I hope the US starts selling Europe all the gas it wants very soon but it's gonna take years unfortunately in any case. Another important thing would be to finally finish the nabucco pipeline and get Iran back on the radar. If I'm not mistaken they have the second biggest gas reserves worldwide. Europe should really look to switch from Russia towards Middle-East/Norway/US to secure their resources. Gas and Oil and nukes are basically the only thing Russia has left to pressure with, taking the first two away would really help. The EU and US refused offers from Iran to supply gas. The primarily supplier for Nabucco will be Iraq. I don't know why you're promoting a crazed terrorist state anyways. You know we're calling the Saudis our allies right? The Iran might not be exactly a humanists utopia, but if the West is willing to make deals with Saudi - Arabia I'm pretty sure Iran is an option.
The reasons were on the basis of political relations, which you're very much ignoring. We have absolutely shitty relations with Iran. It doesn't matter if Saudi Arabia is one of the biggest breeders and supporters of terrorism and Islamic extremism. We have good relations with them and this is why we are making deals with Saudi Arabia. We don't have good relations with Iran. This is why we refused Iran for supplying Nabucco, and are not willing to make deals with them like we do with Saudi Arabia. And please don't understate the situation in Iran. It's the furthest thing from a humanist's utopia, not "might not exactly be" one.
On March 18 2014 06:20 Sub40APM wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2014 06:16 JudicatorHammurabi wrote:On March 18 2014 05:44 Nyxisto wrote:On March 18 2014 05:23 DeepElemBlues wrote:
I hope the US starts selling Europe all the gas it wants very soon but it's gonna take years unfortunately in any case. Another important thing would be to finally finish the nabucco pipeline and get Iran back on the radar. If I'm not mistaken they have the second biggest gas reserves worldwide. Europe should really look to switch from Russia towards Middle-East/Norway/US to secure their resources. Gas and Oil and nukes are basically the only thing Russia has left to pressure with, taking the first two away would really help. . And speaking of oil, Russia is eating up Germany's energy industry as we speak, with RWE. Their output today is the same as its high a few years ago. IIRC, they're also opening up Asian markets for energy sales and investing a lot into developing other industries too. You mean...Russian oligarchs are putting more of their wealth where it can be easily reached? Oh no, the horror.
More like somewhere they can extend their reach. They're far and away from being stupid people, and I don't think anyone denies that. If they saw this, and they see a lot more than what we see, was an infinitely risky decision as you note, especially given the current circumstances, they wouldn't have done it. To imply them as being foolish or stupid is absurd.
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On March 18 2014 04:42 Nyxisto wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2014 04:33 Sub40APM wrote:On March 18 2014 04:31 TheBloodyDwarf wrote:On March 18 2014 04:20 Sub40APM wrote:On March 18 2014 04:19 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:On March 18 2014 04:15 Yurie wrote:On March 18 2014 04:08 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:On March 18 2014 03:46 TheBloodyDwarf wrote:On March 18 2014 03:27 Ghanburighan wrote:
Also, 1000 esports dollars to whoever predicted that Putin won't annex Crimea but will create a grey zone instead:
But aren't all "republics" in Russian federations "independed"? idk will russia take crimea into russian federation but isnt this the way to do it? Nah, there is nothing independed in Russia. Republics just can have their own language as second, that's all. On March 18 2014 03:50 Yurie wrote:On March 18 2014 03:46 TheBloodyDwarf wrote:But aren't all "republics" in Russian federations "independed"? idk will russia take crimea into russian federation but isnt this the way to do it? It seems to be a modern European trend. Large nations breaking down and instead forming huge unions. Scotland, Venice, Catalan are all going in that direction right now. I don't really have anything against this trend. If UK, France and Germany breaks into a few parts EU has a shot at functioning well. 30 more countries in EU? Lel. You don't have to go back all that far in history to find those countries. If they can stay in EU after voting themselves out of their current country then I see no downside to splitting into smaller pieces. The way Crimea did it wasn't a good example. I think if they did it without any overt Russian influence with international monitors on the voting nobody except Spain would have complained in the EU zone. The current way of doing it sets a bad example of breaking up a country next to you to gobble it up. Is it a good idea anyway? How will those 30 countries survive? I'm just curious because i highly doubt that for example every German part is as rich as Bayern, same with other. Yugoslavia already separated few times and i highly doubt that country which had one of the biggest level of life in Europe was worse than stuff which is there now. Size isnt everything, otherwise Russians would be the richest people in the world. I have many rich russians as my neighbours  4 out of 13 houses in my street, detached houses. I live in east Finland. But that's completely different topic. At russians holidays there are more russians cars on road than finnish cars in east Finland :/ (And they cant drive a car...) Dont you mean, North West Russia? Finland has been Russian for 100 years and independent only for ~80, and I hear you like oppressing Russians too. And you were with the fascists in World War 2. Better be nice to your neighbors, otherwise they might liberate you too. Word on the streets is Finland poses huge danger to St. Petersburg.. but pshhh don't tell anybody
Funny you say that.
Moving 3000 intelligence officers to Finnish borderAs previously reported, the Russian Northern Fleet has decided to reestablish its base in Alakurtti, the small town located about 50 km from the border to Finland. Military sources now confirm to newspaper Izvestia that the base will be manned by about 3000 radioelectronics experts. The Alakurtti base was originally closed in 2009 and operations moved to a unit in Moscow. Now, the Defence Ministry is moving both equipment and manpower back. The base is reportedly to be reopened in the course of 2014. Since 2009, Alakurtti has hosted only a border guard unit.
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On March 18 2014 06:16 Sub40APM wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2014 06:09 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:On March 18 2014 06:06 Sub40APM wrote:On March 18 2014 05:56 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:There is a possibility that soon I could be mobilized in national guard, who can send me some NATO ammunition and equipment? 9 mm semi-automatic rifle would be fine, ammo, helmet and kevlar, AUG would be fine tho. Mr. Obama, do u hear me?  But its only 20,000, what are the odds that in a country of 46 -- I guess 44 now that Crimea is cut away -- you get called up? Plus chances are youll get old Polish stuff, just like the Ukrainian army trains with the Polish army for foreign service -- ie when they went to Ukraine they were under Polish command -- because their equipment is more interchangeable with what Ukraine has than American/Western stuff. I've got two friends that already been called in regular army today, but it is a regular army, not national guard tho. Did they already go through voinkomat or just random guys?
They didn't, they're only thinking about if should go or shouldn't, there is also a few factors that might not let them to serve instantly from next week.
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On March 18 2014 06:26 Sub40APM wrote:http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/03/17/russia-will-sanction-u-s-officials.htmlShow nested quote +Other names that could be on the Russian sanctions list, although not confirmed, include Sens. Robert Menendez (D-NJ) and Bob Corker (R-TN), the leaders of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee who are leading the sanctions drive in the Senate, and Victoria Nuland, the Assistant Secretary of State for Europe, who has been heavily involved in working with the Ukrainian opposition that ousted the Yanokovich government. I pity the Russian Foreign Ministry guy who was trying to explain to Putin how Senators in the United States and Senators in Russia are different. Putin the great unifier, first he unifies East and West Ukrainians and now he unifies Republicans and Democrats.
He's like the blue guy from Watchmen
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On March 18 2014 06:29 JudicatorHammurabi wrote:
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More like somewhere they can extend their reach. They're far and away from being stupid people, and I don't think anyone denies that.
I deny it. Russian oligarchs once they lose state favor have a mysterious history of becoming rapidly incompetent. It happened to Berezovsky, it happened to Deripaska, to Gusinsky and a bunch of b-teamers too. These particular guys taking over the German energy company are using the money they got when Igor Sechin basically held BP hostage and forced them to cough up their assets.
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On March 18 2014 06:38 Sub40APM wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2014 06:29 JudicatorHammurabi wrote:
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More like somewhere they can extend their reach. They're far and away from being stupid people, and I don't think anyone denies that. I deny it. Russian oligarchs once they lose state favor have a mysterious history of becoming rapidly incompetent. It happened to Berezovsky, it happened to Deripaska, to Gusinsky and a bunch of b-teamers too. These particular guys taking over the German energy company are using the money they got when Igor Sechin basically held BP hostage and forced them to cough up their assets.
Everything is to be viewed through a different lens, but given your sentiments, everyone from Russia is obviously evil and/or mentally deficient, to say the least, there's unfortunately little to gather besides Russians are terrible in every way. Obviously, a guy like Sechin is an idiot if he was able to hold one of the world's largest energy companies hostage.
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I like how Canada is being more proactive than most with the Ukrainian situation, Our Prime Minister will be Visiting Ukraine Friday and I wouldn't be surprised if it comes to having international troops on the ground in Ukraine we'll be one of the first. Canada has the third largest Ukrainian population in the world behind Ukraine and Russia. On top of that with gas and oil concerns EU countries are having with regards to dependence on Russian resources, would open the door significantly to more of our oil exports to Europe, not that I'm a fan of fossil fuel to start with but it's a potential answer to Russia's energy grip on Europe.
*note* I believe we just set up a huge free trade agreement with the EU as well .... so I would assume oil exports there would be more plausible? http://ec.europa.eu/trade/policy/countries-and-regions/countries/canada/
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I think it's more of a can't than won't.
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On March 18 2014 06:50 JudicatorHammurabi wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2014 06:38 Sub40APM wrote:On March 18 2014 06:29 JudicatorHammurabi wrote:
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More like somewhere they can extend their reach. They're far and away from being stupid people, and I don't think anyone denies that. I deny it. Russian oligarchs once they lose state favor have a mysterious history of becoming rapidly incompetent. It happened to Berezovsky, it happened to Deripaska, to Gusinsky and a bunch of b-teamers too. These particular guys taking over the German energy company are using the money they got when Igor Sechin basically held BP hostage and forced them to cough up their assets. Everything is to be viewed through a different lens, but given your sentiments, everyone from Russia is obviously evil and/or mentally deficient, to say the least, there's unfortunately little to gather besides Russians are terrible in every way. Obviously, a guy like Sechin is an idiot if he was able to hold one of the world's largest energy companies hostage.
I guess in your perspective anyone who can successfully blackmail Western firms via legal threats is a genius. Bravo.
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The land of freedom23126 Posts
On March 18 2014 06:02 Roman666 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2014 05:56 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:There is a possibility that soon I could be mobilized in national guard, who can send me some NATO ammunition and equipment? 9 mm semi-automatic rifle would be fine, ammo, helmet and kevlar, AUG would be fine tho. Mr. Obama, do u hear me? Actually there were some rumours of US sending weapons to Kiev, but I can't find any source now. Perhaps you will get your M16 too. On a serious note, I hope you guys won't have to fight.
Pentagon rejected Ukraine's request for weapons and other military stuff + access to spectator systems.
And they said that help for Ukraine will be only food and some economic stuff probably.
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On March 18 2014 07:02 Sub40APM wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2014 06:50 JudicatorHammurabi wrote:On March 18 2014 06:38 Sub40APM wrote:On March 18 2014 06:29 JudicatorHammurabi wrote:
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More like somewhere they can extend their reach. They're far and away from being stupid people, and I don't think anyone denies that. I deny it. Russian oligarchs once they lose state favor have a mysterious history of becoming rapidly incompetent. It happened to Berezovsky, it happened to Deripaska, to Gusinsky and a bunch of b-teamers too. These particular guys taking over the German energy company are using the money they got when Igor Sechin basically held BP hostage and forced them to cough up their assets. Everything is to be viewed through a different lens, but given your sentiments, everyone from Russia is obviously evil and/or mentally deficient, to say the least, there's unfortunately little to gather besides Russians are terrible in every way. Obviously, a guy like Sechin is an idiot if he was able to hold one of the world's largest energy companies hostage. I guess in your perspective anyone who can successfully blackmail Western firms via legal threats is a genius. Bravo.
Not in my perspective. It's no simple matter to even be in a position where such a thing is possible in the first place, nevermind being successful. One doesn't get to a powerful position in the business world in the first place by being an idiot, but then again, we've already established you think horribly of anything to do with Russia. It's like listening to Americaphobes who are convinced that Americans are the stupidest, more ridiculous people ever, yet somehow manage to do all sorts of things better than anyone else. But it doesn't matter, such people are convinced the US is the spawn of satan.
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
different competencies are required to be a mobster as opposed to a real ceo.
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Yeah, the former is in many regards the tougher option in terms of competency. Being a "clean", legal corporate CEO would probably make life a lot easier for him. But that's besides the point. It doesn't change the fact that business is business, and being a successful global businessman is no easy task no matter how you spin it, and having the ability to manhandle the world's greatest companies is an ability only a few people have.
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On March 18 2014 07:08 JudicatorHammurabi wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2014 07:02 Sub40APM wrote:On March 18 2014 06:50 JudicatorHammurabi wrote:On March 18 2014 06:38 Sub40APM wrote:On March 18 2014 06:29 JudicatorHammurabi wrote:
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More like somewhere they can extend their reach. They're far and away from being stupid people, and I don't think anyone denies that. I deny it. Russian oligarchs once they lose state favor have a mysterious history of becoming rapidly incompetent. It happened to Berezovsky, it happened to Deripaska, to Gusinsky and a bunch of b-teamers too. These particular guys taking over the German energy company are using the money they got when Igor Sechin basically held BP hostage and forced them to cough up their assets. Everything is to be viewed through a different lens, but given your sentiments, everyone from Russia is obviously evil and/or mentally deficient, to say the least, there's unfortunately little to gather besides Russians are terrible in every way. Obviously, a guy like Sechin is an idiot if he was able to hold one of the world's largest energy companies hostage. I guess in your perspective anyone who can successfully blackmail Western firms via legal threats is a genius. Bravo. Not in my perspective. It's no simple matter to even be in a position where such a thing is possible in the first place, nevermind being successful.
I guess you must think Saddam Hussein was quite the business genius too. After all its no simple feat to take over a whole country and THEN nationalize all the oil while still being only in his 30s.
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On March 18 2014 07:18 Sub40APM wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2014 07:08 JudicatorHammurabi wrote:On March 18 2014 07:02 Sub40APM wrote:On March 18 2014 06:50 JudicatorHammurabi wrote:On March 18 2014 06:38 Sub40APM wrote:On March 18 2014 06:29 JudicatorHammurabi wrote:
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More like somewhere they can extend their reach. They're far and away from being stupid people, and I don't think anyone denies that. I deny it. Russian oligarchs once they lose state favor have a mysterious history of becoming rapidly incompetent. It happened to Berezovsky, it happened to Deripaska, to Gusinsky and a bunch of b-teamers too. These particular guys taking over the German energy company are using the money they got when Igor Sechin basically held BP hostage and forced them to cough up their assets. Everything is to be viewed through a different lens, but given your sentiments, everyone from Russia is obviously evil and/or mentally deficient, to say the least, there's unfortunately little to gather besides Russians are terrible in every way. Obviously, a guy like Sechin is an idiot if he was able to hold one of the world's largest energy companies hostage. I guess in your perspective anyone who can successfully blackmail Western firms via legal threats is a genius. Bravo. Not in my perspective. It's no simple matter to even be in a position where such a thing is possible in the first place, nevermind being successful. I guess you must think Saddam Hussein was quite the business genius too. After all its no simple feat to take over a whole country and THEN nationalize all the oil while still being only in his 30s.
HAHAHA! Now you're so desperate, that you're making completely irrelevant analogies. Saddam Hussein and the Baath took over a country through a political coup that established them as ruling the country. Nationalizing the oil was a policy of their government, and it was within their own country, and nor was it the works of capitalist economics but standard government seizure and nationalization of resources, which is often done in developing countries. That is no work of genius. That is aggressive political takeover and using that power. Last I checked, Sechin didn't take over a country. This is easily one of the worst analogies I've seen to businessmen of any kind.
And yet, your analogy fails further. Even as a political entity and big oil player, I don't think the Iraqi govt. was still powerful enough to tell BP what to do XD. Then some guy from Russia, not even Putin or the Russian government at that, is telling BP what to do, and BP complies. Your analogy would probably have worked better if you said Sechin took power in Russia and then took the entire energy industry and then told BP to give him money, but of course, that never happened.
But to say the least, I'm glad we have established that you're Russophobic (if that wasn't obvious a couple hundred pages ago). Someone earlier in the thread worded it better than me, in reply to a statement I made where American posters are relatively moderate in this thread. But regardless, I should take things with as much weight as I would from Americaphobes.
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EPT
