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On March 18 2014 04:17 Ghanburighan wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2014 04:02 Roman666 wrote:On March 18 2014 03:27 Ghanburighan wrote:
Also, 1000 esports dollars to whoever predicted that Putin won't annex Crimea but will create a grey zone instead:
On March 16 2014 18:35 Roman666 wrote:
I have a gut feeling that regardless the result, Kremlin will not allow Crimea to join RF, leaving it in limbo like Transnistria. That will give it another blackmail opportunity should it has anything to negotiate with Kiev in the future. I will PM you my bank account number.  I'll keep that on hold until Tuesday, though. Easy come, easy go.
Hehe, sure.
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On March 18 2014 04:08 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2014 03:46 TheBloodyDwarf wrote:But aren't all "republics" in Russian federations "independed"? idk will russia take crimea into russian federation but isnt this the way to do it? Nah, there is nothing independed in Russia. Republics just can have their own language as second, that's all.
Yes that's why " ". I was just saying that this could be way how to join russian federation?
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On March 18 2014 04:20 Sub40APM wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2014 04:19 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:On March 18 2014 04:15 Yurie wrote:On March 18 2014 04:08 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:On March 18 2014 03:46 TheBloodyDwarf wrote:But aren't all "republics" in Russian federations "independed"? idk will russia take crimea into russian federation but isnt this the way to do it? Nah, there is nothing independed in Russia. Republics just can have their own language as second, that's all. On March 18 2014 03:50 Yurie wrote:On March 18 2014 03:46 TheBloodyDwarf wrote:But aren't all "republics" in Russian federations "independed"? idk will russia take crimea into russian federation but isnt this the way to do it? It seems to be a modern European trend. Large nations breaking down and instead forming huge unions. Scotland, Venice, Catalan are all going in that direction right now. I don't really have anything against this trend. If UK, France and Germany breaks into a few parts EU has a shot at functioning well. 30 more countries in EU? Lel. You don't have to go back all that far in history to find those countries. If they can stay in EU after voting themselves out of their current country then I see no downside to splitting into smaller pieces. The way Crimea did it wasn't a good example. I think if they did it without any overt Russian influence with international monitors on the voting nobody except Spain would have complained in the EU zone. The current way of doing it sets a bad example of breaking up a country next to you to gobble it up. Is it a good idea anyway? How will those 30 countries survive? I'm just curious because i highly doubt that for example every German part is as rich as Bayern, same with other. Yugoslavia already separated few times and i highly doubt that country which had one of the biggest level of life in Europe was worse than stuff which is there now. Size isnt everything, otherwise Russians would be the richest people in the world.
I have many rich russians as my neighbours  4 out of 12 houses in my street, detached houses. I live in east Finland. But that's completely different topic. At russians holidays there are more russians cars on road than finnish cars in east Finland :/ (And they cant drive a car...)
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On March 18 2014 04:22 Roman666 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2014 04:17 Ghanburighan wrote:On March 18 2014 04:02 Roman666 wrote:On March 16 2014 18:35 Roman666 wrote:
I have a gut feeling that regardless the result, Kremlin will not allow Crimea to join RF, leaving it in limbo like Transnistria. That will give it another blackmail opportunity should it has anything to negotiate with Kiev in the future. I will PM you my bank account number. I'll keep that on hold until Tuesday, though. Easy come, easy go. Hehe, sure.
The Kremlin’s original plan, it seems, was to recognise Crimea as an “independent” state and establish its protectorate over it—just as it did with South Ossetia and Abkhazia, two separatist Georgian regions occupied by Russia after the 2008 war. In a news conference held on March 4th, Mr Putin said he was “not contemplating” rolling Crimea into Russia. Initially, the referendum was supposed to be held on March 30th and to have different questions. Two days later, however, the plan was altered. The referendum was moved forward and questions were changed.
http://www.economist.com/blogs/easternapproaches/2014/03/crimea-votes-secede
March 21st is supposedly when the Russian Duma will 'debate' Crimean ascension.
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On March 18 2014 04:31 TheBloodyDwarf wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2014 04:20 Sub40APM wrote:On March 18 2014 04:19 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:On March 18 2014 04:15 Yurie wrote:On March 18 2014 04:08 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:On March 18 2014 03:46 TheBloodyDwarf wrote:But aren't all "republics" in Russian federations "independed"? idk will russia take crimea into russian federation but isnt this the way to do it? Nah, there is nothing independed in Russia. Republics just can have their own language as second, that's all. On March 18 2014 03:50 Yurie wrote:On March 18 2014 03:46 TheBloodyDwarf wrote:But aren't all "republics" in Russian federations "independed"? idk will russia take crimea into russian federation but isnt this the way to do it? It seems to be a modern European trend. Large nations breaking down and instead forming huge unions. Scotland, Venice, Catalan are all going in that direction right now. I don't really have anything against this trend. If UK, France and Germany breaks into a few parts EU has a shot at functioning well. 30 more countries in EU? Lel. You don't have to go back all that far in history to find those countries. If they can stay in EU after voting themselves out of their current country then I see no downside to splitting into smaller pieces. The way Crimea did it wasn't a good example. I think if they did it without any overt Russian influence with international monitors on the voting nobody except Spain would have complained in the EU zone. The current way of doing it sets a bad example of breaking up a country next to you to gobble it up. Is it a good idea anyway? How will those 30 countries survive? I'm just curious because i highly doubt that for example every German part is as rich as Bayern, same with other. Yugoslavia already separated few times and i highly doubt that country which had one of the biggest level of life in Europe was worse than stuff which is there now. Size isnt everything, otherwise Russians would be the richest people in the world. I have many rich russians as my neighbours 4 out of 13 houses in my street, detached houses. I live in east Finland. But that's completely different topic. At russians holidays there are more russians cars on road than finnish cars in east Finland :/ (And they cant drive a car...) Dont you mean, North West Russia? Finland has been Russian for 100 years and independent only for ~80, and I hear you like oppressing Russians too. And you were with the fascists in World War 2. Better be nice to your neighbors, otherwise they might liberate you too.
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On March 18 2014 04:08 govie wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2014 03:50 Yurie wrote:On March 18 2014 03:46 TheBloodyDwarf wrote:But aren't all "republics" in Russian federations "independed"? idk will russia take crimea into russian federation but isnt this the way to do it? It seems to be a modern European trend. Large nations breaking down and instead forming huge unions. Scotland, Venice, Catalan are all going in that direction right now. I don't really have anything against this trend. If UK, France and Germany breaks into a few parts EU has a shot at functioning well. Well yes and no. If your EU then you have gave up on your souverinity in almost every way. So yes, i.e. catalan could hold a referendum for an independant state but then they still would not have souverinity (except breamcrumbpolicies and little details) as they are part of the EU. But im pretty sure that catalan will never be seperated from spain tho.
You are misinformed about the EU. The ultimate expression of sovereignty is the political ability to wage war which many countries within the EU have frequently and freely done. And the ultimate delieneator of sovereignty is just that, to be able to declare war independently. And then there is France who only follows EU directives when it suits them to do so.
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On March 18 2014 04:33 Sub40APM wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2014 04:31 TheBloodyDwarf wrote:On March 18 2014 04:20 Sub40APM wrote:On March 18 2014 04:19 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:On March 18 2014 04:15 Yurie wrote:On March 18 2014 04:08 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:On March 18 2014 03:46 TheBloodyDwarf wrote:But aren't all "republics" in Russian federations "independed"? idk will russia take crimea into russian federation but isnt this the way to do it? Nah, there is nothing independed in Russia. Republics just can have their own language as second, that's all. On March 18 2014 03:50 Yurie wrote:On March 18 2014 03:46 TheBloodyDwarf wrote:But aren't all "republics" in Russian federations "independed"? idk will russia take crimea into russian federation but isnt this the way to do it? It seems to be a modern European trend. Large nations breaking down and instead forming huge unions. Scotland, Venice, Catalan are all going in that direction right now. I don't really have anything against this trend. If UK, France and Germany breaks into a few parts EU has a shot at functioning well. 30 more countries in EU? Lel. You don't have to go back all that far in history to find those countries. If they can stay in EU after voting themselves out of their current country then I see no downside to splitting into smaller pieces. The way Crimea did it wasn't a good example. I think if they did it without any overt Russian influence with international monitors on the voting nobody except Spain would have complained in the EU zone. The current way of doing it sets a bad example of breaking up a country next to you to gobble it up. Is it a good idea anyway? How will those 30 countries survive? I'm just curious because i highly doubt that for example every German part is as rich as Bayern, same with other. Yugoslavia already separated few times and i highly doubt that country which had one of the biggest level of life in Europe was worse than stuff which is there now. Size isnt everything, otherwise Russians would be the richest people in the world. I have many rich russians as my neighbours 4 out of 13 houses in my street, detached houses. I live in east Finland. But that's completely different topic. At russians holidays there are more russians cars on road than finnish cars in east Finland :/ (And they cant drive a car...) Dont you mean, North West Russia? Finland has been Russian for 100 years and independent only for ~80, and I hear you like oppressing Russians too. And you were with the fascists in World War 2. Better be nice to your neighbors, otherwise they might liberate you too.
LoooooL. Best post yet
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On March 18 2014 04:33 Sub40APM wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2014 04:31 TheBloodyDwarf wrote:On March 18 2014 04:20 Sub40APM wrote:On March 18 2014 04:19 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:On March 18 2014 04:15 Yurie wrote:On March 18 2014 04:08 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:On March 18 2014 03:46 TheBloodyDwarf wrote:But aren't all "republics" in Russian federations "independed"? idk will russia take crimea into russian federation but isnt this the way to do it? Nah, there is nothing independed in Russia. Republics just can have their own language as second, that's all. On March 18 2014 03:50 Yurie wrote:On March 18 2014 03:46 TheBloodyDwarf wrote:But aren't all "republics" in Russian federations "independed"? idk will russia take crimea into russian federation but isnt this the way to do it? It seems to be a modern European trend. Large nations breaking down and instead forming huge unions. Scotland, Venice, Catalan are all going in that direction right now. I don't really have anything against this trend. If UK, France and Germany breaks into a few parts EU has a shot at functioning well. 30 more countries in EU? Lel. You don't have to go back all that far in history to find those countries. If they can stay in EU after voting themselves out of their current country then I see no downside to splitting into smaller pieces. The way Crimea did it wasn't a good example. I think if they did it without any overt Russian influence with international monitors on the voting nobody except Spain would have complained in the EU zone. The current way of doing it sets a bad example of breaking up a country next to you to gobble it up. Is it a good idea anyway? How will those 30 countries survive? I'm just curious because i highly doubt that for example every German part is as rich as Bayern, same with other. Yugoslavia already separated few times and i highly doubt that country which had one of the biggest level of life in Europe was worse than stuff which is there now. Size isnt everything, otherwise Russians would be the richest people in the world. I have many rich russians as my neighbours 4 out of 13 houses in my street, detached houses. I live in east Finland. But that's completely different topic. At russians holidays there are more russians cars on road than finnish cars in east Finland :/ (And they cant drive a car...) Dont you mean, North West Russia? Finland has been Russian for 100 years and independent only for ~80, and I hear you like oppressing Russians too. And you were with the fascists in World War 2. Better be nice to your neighbors, otherwise they might liberate you too.
Word on the streets is Finland poses huge danger to St. Petersburg.. but pshhh don't tell anybody
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The land of freedom23126 Posts
On March 18 2014 04:20 Sub40APM wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2014 04:19 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:On March 18 2014 04:15 Yurie wrote:On March 18 2014 04:08 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:On March 18 2014 03:46 TheBloodyDwarf wrote:But aren't all "republics" in Russian federations "independed"? idk will russia take crimea into russian federation but isnt this the way to do it? Nah, there is nothing independed in Russia. Republics just can have their own language as second, that's all. On March 18 2014 03:50 Yurie wrote:On March 18 2014 03:46 TheBloodyDwarf wrote:But aren't all "republics" in Russian federations "independed"? idk will russia take crimea into russian federation but isnt this the way to do it? It seems to be a modern European trend. Large nations breaking down and instead forming huge unions. Scotland, Venice, Catalan are all going in that direction right now. I don't really have anything against this trend. If UK, France and Germany breaks into a few parts EU has a shot at functioning well. 30 more countries in EU? Lel. You don't have to go back all that far in history to find those countries. If they can stay in EU after voting themselves out of their current country then I see no downside to splitting into smaller pieces. The way Crimea did it wasn't a good example. I think if they did it without any overt Russian influence with international monitors on the voting nobody except Spain would have complained in the EU zone. The current way of doing it sets a bad example of breaking up a country next to you to gobble it up. Is it a good idea anyway? How will those 30 countries survive? I'm just curious because i highly doubt that for example every German part is as rich as Bayern, same with other. Yugoslavia already separated few times and i highly doubt that country which had one of the biggest level of life in Europe was worse than stuff which is there now. Size isnt everything, otherwise Russians would be the richest people in the world.
Who cares about size, you need at least something to survive. And usually countries contain regions which can add something to total moneybox.
On March 18 2014 04:25 TheBloodyDwarf wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2014 04:08 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:On March 18 2014 03:46 TheBloodyDwarf wrote:But aren't all "republics" in Russian federations "independed"? idk will russia take crimea into russian federation but isnt this the way to do it? Nah, there is nothing independed in Russia. Republics just can have their own language as second, that's all. Yes that's why " ". I was just saying that this could be way how to join russian federation?
Ye, i guess first of all, if Crimea ofc will be added, they will recognize it as subject of Russia and then - Republic of Crimea.
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On March 18 2014 04:36 Dangermousecatdog wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2014 04:08 govie wrote:On March 18 2014 03:50 Yurie wrote:On March 18 2014 03:46 TheBloodyDwarf wrote:But aren't all "republics" in Russian federations "independed"? idk will russia take crimea into russian federation but isnt this the way to do it? It seems to be a modern European trend. Large nations breaking down and instead forming huge unions. Scotland, Venice, Catalan are all going in that direction right now. I don't really have anything against this trend. If UK, France and Germany breaks into a few parts EU has a shot at functioning well. Well yes and no. If your EU then you have gave up on your souverinity in almost every way. So yes, i.e. catalan could hold a referendum for an independant state but then they still would not have souverinity (except breamcrumbpolicies and little details) as they are part of the EU. But im pretty sure that catalan will never be seperated from spain tho. You are misinformed about the EU. The ultimate expression of sovereignty is the political ability to wage war which many countries within the EU have frequently and freely done. And the ultimate delieneator of sovereignty is just that, to be able to declare war independently. And then there is France who only follows EU directives when it suits them to do so.
I can only state as far my knowledge goes, i am not all knowing But still, when EU says they need money for another government in another country, you cant decline not paying. If the EU makes legislation about mortgages, your washingmachines etcetc, your country can only differ from other countries within that EU legislation if i am correct. There are many examples. Maybe i misused the term "souverinity" if so my apologies, but in my country souverinitity states that a country doesnt have to subject to any power (i.e. country) in every aspect or topic, it seems broader defined then your definition.
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Those sanctions are too toothless; I can understand not wanting to escalate the situation, but those are just pathetic; they should bring up something a bit more damaging, or announce some long term things.
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On March 18 2014 04:49 govie wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2014 04:36 Dangermousecatdog wrote:On March 18 2014 04:08 govie wrote:On March 18 2014 03:50 Yurie wrote:On March 18 2014 03:46 TheBloodyDwarf wrote:But aren't all "republics" in Russian federations "independed"? idk will russia take crimea into russian federation but isnt this the way to do it? It seems to be a modern European trend. Large nations breaking down and instead forming huge unions. Scotland, Venice, Catalan are all going in that direction right now. I don't really have anything against this trend. If UK, France and Germany breaks into a few parts EU has a shot at functioning well. Well yes and no. If your EU then you have gave up on your souverinity in almost every way. So yes, i.e. catalan could hold a referendum for an independant state but then they still would not have souverinity (except breamcrumbpolicies and little details) as they are part of the EU. But im pretty sure that catalan will never be seperated from spain tho. You are misinformed about the EU. The ultimate expression of sovereignty is the political ability to wage war which many countries within the EU have frequently and freely done. And the ultimate delieneator of sovereignty is just that, to be able to declare war independently. And then there is France who only follows EU directives when it suits them to do so. I can only state as far my knowledge goes, i am not all knowing But still, when EU says they need money for another government in another country, you cant decline not paying. If the EU makes legislation about mortgages, your washingmachines etcetc, your country can only differ from other countries within that EU legislation if i am correct. There are many examples. Maybe i misused the term "souverinity" if so my apologies, but in my country souverinitity states that a country doesnt have to subject to any power (i.e. country) in every aspect or topic, it seems broader defined then your definition.
I don't understand. There's probably a language issue. Could you use more words?
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The land of freedom23126 Posts
On March 18 2014 04:49 zlefin wrote:
Those sanctions are too toothless; I can understand not wanting to escalate the situation, but those are just pathetic; they should bring up something a bit more damaging, or announce some long term things.
Nah, noone will do anything brutal.
Amount of US capital in Russia is way more than Russian capital in US, no reason for Obama to escalate.
And Europe has their problems before elections to fix, instead of trying to gain some votes by escalating conflicts.
Especially considering fact that civilized countries nowdays are just related to each other so much that if some link will be eliminated, many links can fall like dominoes.
I want to ask Europeans now btw.
It will be a bit off-top but still.
Do you like euro?
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That Russia is doing bad things is reason enough to escalate; especially to discourage others from doing bad things.
Not that sanctions are really escalating things at all; sanctions << military annexation, so I don't see how it would qualify as an escalation.
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On March 18 2014 04:31 Sub40APM wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2014 04:22 Roman666 wrote:On March 18 2014 04:17 Ghanburighan wrote:On March 18 2014 04:02 Roman666 wrote:On March 16 2014 18:35 Roman666 wrote:
I have a gut feeling that regardless the result, Kremlin will not allow Crimea to join RF, leaving it in limbo like Transnistria. That will give it another blackmail opportunity should it has anything to negotiate with Kiev in the future. I will PM you my bank account number. I'll keep that on hold until Tuesday, though. Easy come, easy go. Hehe, sure. Show nested quote +The Kremlin’s original plan, it seems, was to recognise Crimea as an “independent” state and establish its protectorate over it—just as it did with South Ossetia and Abkhazia, two separatist Georgian regions occupied by Russia after the 2008 war. In a news conference held on March 4th, Mr Putin said he was “not contemplating” rolling Crimea into Russia. Initially, the referendum was supposed to be held on March 30th and to have different questions. Two days later, however, the plan was altered. The referendum was moved forward and questions were changed. http://www.economist.com/blogs/easternapproaches/2014/03/crimea-votes-secedeMarch 21st is supposedly when the Russian Duma will 'debate' Crimean ascension.
Still, I don't think they will gobble it up, there is no point to do that. Kremlin is keen on destabilization of Ukraine, and will use Crimean card over and over. Not that it will have any possibility to change anything, Crimea is undoubtfully lost to Ukraine anyway.
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On March 18 2014 04:57 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:
I want to ask Europeans now btw.
It will be a bit off-top but still.
Do you like euro?
Yes, why not?
Still, I don't think they will gobble it up, there is no point to do that. Kremlin is keen on destabilization of Ukraine, and will use Crimean card over and over. Not that it will have any possibility to change anything, Crimea is undoubtfully lost to Ukraine anyway.
Well at this point they might as well just annex the country. As several others have pointed out the sanctions are basically useless. In my opinion they should have put on the thumbscrews way earlier and way harder.
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On March 18 2014 04:33 Sub40APM wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2014 04:31 TheBloodyDwarf wrote:On March 18 2014 04:20 Sub40APM wrote:On March 18 2014 04:19 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:On March 18 2014 04:15 Yurie wrote:On March 18 2014 04:08 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:On March 18 2014 03:46 TheBloodyDwarf wrote:But aren't all "republics" in Russian federations "independed"? idk will russia take crimea into russian federation but isnt this the way to do it? Nah, there is nothing independed in Russia. Republics just can have their own language as second, that's all. On March 18 2014 03:50 Yurie wrote:On March 18 2014 03:46 TheBloodyDwarf wrote:But aren't all "republics" in Russian federations "independed"? idk will russia take crimea into russian federation but isnt this the way to do it? It seems to be a modern European trend. Large nations breaking down and instead forming huge unions. Scotland, Venice, Catalan are all going in that direction right now. I don't really have anything against this trend. If UK, France and Germany breaks into a few parts EU has a shot at functioning well. 30 more countries in EU? Lel. You don't have to go back all that far in history to find those countries. If they can stay in EU after voting themselves out of their current country then I see no downside to splitting into smaller pieces. The way Crimea did it wasn't a good example. I think if they did it without any overt Russian influence with international monitors on the voting nobody except Spain would have complained in the EU zone. The current way of doing it sets a bad example of breaking up a country next to you to gobble it up. Is it a good idea anyway? How will those 30 countries survive? I'm just curious because i highly doubt that for example every German part is as rich as Bayern, same with other. Yugoslavia already separated few times and i highly doubt that country which had one of the biggest level of life in Europe was worse than stuff which is there now. Size isnt everything, otherwise Russians would be the richest people in the world. I have many rich russians as my neighbours 4 out of 13 houses in my street, detached houses. I live in east Finland. But that's completely different topic. At russians holidays there are more russians cars on road than finnish cars in east Finland :/ (And they cant drive a car...) Dont you mean, North West Russia? Finland has been Russian for 100 years and independent only for ~80, and I hear you like oppressing Russians too. And you were with the fascists in World War 2. Better be nice to your neighbors, otherwise they might liberate you too.
You know that Petersburg is build to finnic lands? Until soviet union all towns surrounding petersburg were finnic. Should finnish go to defend their lands? :D
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The land of freedom23126 Posts
On March 18 2014 05:05 Nyxisto wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2014 04:57 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:
I want to ask Europeans now btw.
It will be a bit off-top but still.
Do you like euro? Yes, why not?
A lot of my friends and friends of my family in Europe dislike it a lot.
For example, they think that if Germany had marka still, everything could be better.
And guys in Latvia, Poland and other countries dislike it as well.
Just curious.
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http://oilprice.com/Energy/Natural-Gas/Gas-Wars-Will-US-Export-LNG-to-Europe.html
http://wyborcza.pl/1,75477,15582028,Stany_Zjednoczone_szachuja_Kreml_gazem.html
So better than sanctions would be the USA selling it's shale gas to the EU. If you didn't know the USA is the biggest energy producer in the world (thanks to fracking/shale-gas), but we don't sell abroad (yet) primarily due to the manufacturing lobby wanting to keep energy prices low. The oil lobby of course wants to sell abroad
It would take a few years to build up the infrastructure, and wouldn't make Europe independent on Russian gas but it would definitely drive prices down and *really* hurt Russia.
I'm surprised so little has been made of this. Sooo, the companies some of us hate (shell,Exxon, etc.) could be big factors in fighting Russia's choke-hold on Europe.
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On March 18 2014 05:11 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2014 05:05 Nyxisto wrote:On March 18 2014 04:57 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:
I want to ask Europeans now btw.
It will be a bit off-top but still.
Do you like euro? Yes, why not? A lot of my friends and friends of my family in Europe dislike it a lot. For example, they think that if Germany had marka still, everything could be better. And guys in Latvia, Poland and other countries dislike it as well. Just curious. '
There are some that dislike it, but the majority in pretty much every country likes it. Especially the people that are hopping between various EU states. And those are generally more influential.
,
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EPT
