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On March 18 2014 02:07 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2014 01:53 Simberto wrote:
Don't worry, you'll get to have a fair referendum afterwards if you want to join them. Fair just like it was in Crimea? Or u talking about realisticly fair way to choose? I've already posted a poll in social media across Kharkov, those who supported pro-russian journey to live were slightly above 30%. But we should notice that it was a people who got internet and who knew about this poll, and i'm almost sure that people above 40 years gonna vote for joining with Russia, that's scary, final results might be 50 to 50. I'm not sure I wanna live in a country, which take a course on east with help of "old" soviet people. Don't get me wrong, a lot of things remains uncertain.
Cough
I think your sarcasm meter is broken.
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On March 18 2014 02:09 Simberto wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2014 02:07 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:On March 18 2014 01:53 Simberto wrote:
Don't worry, you'll get to have a fair referendum afterwards if you want to join them. Fair just like it was in Crimea? Or u talking about realisticly fair way to choose? I've already posted a poll in social media across Kharkov, those who supported pro-russian journey to live were slightly above 30%. But we should notice that it was a people who got internet and who knew about this poll, and i'm almost sure that people above 40 years gonna vote for joining with Russia, that's scary, final results might be 50 to 50. I'm not sure I wanna live in a country, which take a course on east with help of "old" soviet people. Don't get me wrong, a lot of things remains uncertain. It will probably be similarly fair as the crimean one, in the long tradition of russian democracy.
Russian democracy means imperialism, that qualitativly hidden for the most of russian people.
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I know Eastern Ukraine is more pro Russian than Western part but can you tell me if it's dominated by ethnic Russians like Crimea or by Russian speaking Ukrainians?
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On March 18 2014 02:11 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2014 02:07 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:On March 18 2014 01:53 Simberto wrote:
Don't worry, you'll get to have a fair referendum afterwards if you want to join them. Fair just like it was in Crimea? Or u talking about realisticly fair way to choose? I've already posted a poll in social media across Kharkov, those who supported pro-russian journey to live were slightly above 30%. But we should notice that it was a people who got internet and who knew about this poll, and i'm almost sure that people above 40 years gonna vote for joining with Russia, that's scary, final results might be 50 to 50. I'm not sure I wanna live in a country, which take a course on east with help of "old" soviet people. Don't get me wrong, a lot of things remains uncertain. Cough I think your sarcasm meter is broken.
sarcasm on an internet forum discussing politics with non-native english speakers is just stupid
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On March 18 2014 02:13 Sent. wrote:
I know Eastern Ukraine is more pro Russian than Western part but can you tell me if it's dominated by ethnic Russians like Crimea or by Russian speaking Ukrainians?
Right now - russian speaking Ukrainians. Recent events in Crimea and russian amry on our borders makes people think differently than it used to be before, cause, finally, who wanna see tanks in their streets?
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The land of freedom23126 Posts
On March 18 2014 02:13 Sent. wrote:
I know Eastern Ukraine is more pro Russian than Western part but can you tell me if it's dominated by ethnic Russians like Crimea or by Russian speaking Ukrainians?
To be completely honest, it's hard to find this pattern between them, especially 23 years since USSR disband.
Same with Ukranians here, you basically never know besides accent sometimes that it's Ukranian Russian and not native.
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On March 18 2014 02:19 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2014 02:13 Sent. wrote:
I know Eastern Ukraine is more pro Russian than Western part but can you tell me if it's dominated by ethnic Russians like Crimea or by Russian speaking Ukrainians? To be completely honest, it's hard to find this pattern between them, especially 23 years since USSR disband. Same with Ukranians here, you basically never know besides accent sometimes that it's Ukranian Russian and not native.
To be frank, younger generations are almost completely turned to west, elder to east. Kharkov for example, is the biggest student city, with big amount of highschools. Hard to find a common language between students and pre-pensionary age people.
I started a conversation with few people, and I said that I will never support pro-russian strikes and big Russian flag on our streets, and few minutes later couple of people already called me as Banderovets. How can it be, that tine reason to call me an ultra radical? Russian speaking banderovets? Those people were close to 30, some of them from Russia, some of the from Donetsk, and some from Kharkov. In their eyes, if I'm not supporting this kind of strikes, and if I'm supporting pro-russian vector - i'm Banderovets.
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On March 18 2014 02:02 nunez wrote:from reddit re that 127%-article posted earlier: Show nested quote +Somebody mixed 1 724 563 and 1 563 724.
If we subtract 1563724 - 1250426 we get 313298 voters in Sevastopol.
Dividing by the population of 385462(which is inaccurate), you get 81.3%. The stated ratio is 82,71%. Show nested quote +They are quoting the press-conference of the local election official who clearly says 1,524,563 total voters at about 1 minute mark. The correspondent of the ITAR-TASS agency was either listening to something else or playing Flappy Bird or whatever and originally quoted that official as saying 1,724,563 total voters. Half an hour after that they reported 1,524,563. It's a typo in one report, not a conspiracy. ghan posting cold hard verifiable facts eh?
I'm wrong because someone on reddit says so? Let's wait and see which way it goes once people have time to analyze it properly.
Also, I don't appreciate the personal attack considering that the news was reported by a large number of news agencies. If we get personal, how about you being demonstrably misleading in your depiction of facts (most recently with your construal of the Crimean opinion poll from last year) yet failing to own up to it.
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
pretty clear the west is still spineless and letting ukraine down. gg london
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From reading this thread I understand that Russians from Russia support annexation of Crimea because they think that Sevastopol is a Russian city. Can Putin use the same excuse to justify taking cities like Donetsk or Kharkiv?
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On March 18 2014 01:41 FatCat_13 wrote:
Just as expected the US sanctions hit some nobodies. The correct persons to hit would have beem Miller, Sechin and Ivanov, Timchenko, Kovalchyuk and Abramovich including family member. THAT would be the sanctions.
Yes its amazing how Sechin and Miller just coast through. Good old London finance, the only two people they hit who are even remotely close to Putin are a poor man (Rogozin) and a weak man (Surkov).
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On March 18 2014 02:31 Sent. wrote:
From reading this thread I understand that Russians from Russia support annexation of Crimea because they think that Sevastopol is a Russian city. Can Putin use the same excuse to justify taking cities like Donetsk or Kharkiv?
In theory, he can, but it would be much harder, we don't have russian bases in Donetsk and Kharkiv, and these are pretty big citys, entering here with regular army may result to unexpected consequence.
For all who can read russian, take a look at this topic on main forum of our city, it's about humanitarian relief from our citizens to our border guards in 40 kilometers from Kharkiv. People donated foods, goods and other stuff, some cash and proviant. Soldiers were happy, at least they feels support. Pictures included.
http://www.kharkovforum.com/showthread.php?t=3618147
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On March 18 2014 00:45 Gamlet wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2014 00:20 mdb wrote:On March 18 2014 00:18 Gamlet wrote:On March 17 2014 23:49 Fjodorov wrote:On March 17 2014 23:41 Gamlet wrote:
I am from Kiev.And i want to be part of Russia. Whats stopping you? Are you not welcome in Russia? Or wait, lets have every minority in every country create independent countries or join other countries. I love Kiev.And i doesnt want live in another city.Its stoping me.Kiev its mother of russian cities. I think independence no sense for Ukraine.We must be part of Russia.My hope its Great Slavian Union. Which countries do you thnik should be part of the Great Slavian Union? All slavian countries.Bulgaria its too slavian coutry.But i doesnt know about Bulgaria want it or not.But Ukraine-Russia-Belarus union its first step.
So do you think the non-Slavian parts of Ukraine and Russia should leave first before making your race union?
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The land of freedom23126 Posts
On March 18 2014 02:25 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2014 02:19 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:On March 18 2014 02:13 Sent. wrote:
I know Eastern Ukraine is more pro Russian than Western part but can you tell me if it's dominated by ethnic Russians like Crimea or by Russian speaking Ukrainians? To be completely honest, it's hard to find this pattern between them, especially 23 years since USSR disband. Same with Ukranians here, you basically never know besides accent sometimes that it's Ukranian Russian and not native. To be frank, younger generations are almost completely turned to west, elder to east. Kharkov for example, is the biggest student city, with big amount of highschools. Hard to find a common language between students and pre-pensionary age people. I started a conversation with few people, and I said that I will never support pro-russian strikes and big Russian flag on our streets, and few minutes later couple of people already called me as Banderovets. How can it be, that tine reason to call me an ultra radical? Russian speaking banderovets? Those people were close to 30, some of them from Russia, some of the from Donetsk, and some from Kharkov. In their eyes, if I'm not supporting this kind of strikes, and if I'm supporting pro-russian vector - i'm Banderovets.
Pro-Ukranian* :D
It's logical i guess, that young generations turn to West, universities and stuff are tempting.
People just tend to exaggerate each side of conflict without even trying to find some common points.
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On March 18 2014 01:27 Ghanburighan wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2014 01:23 Fjodorov wrote:On March 18 2014 01:18 Nyxisto wrote:On March 18 2014 01:08 TheBloodyDwarf wrote:On March 18 2014 00:45 Gamlet wrote:On March 18 2014 00:20 mdb wrote:On March 18 2014 00:18 Gamlet wrote:On March 17 2014 23:49 Fjodorov wrote:On March 17 2014 23:41 Gamlet wrote:
I am from Kiev.And i want to be part of Russia. Whats stopping you? Are you not welcome in Russia? Or wait, lets have every minority in every country create independent countries or join other countries. I love Kiev.And i doesnt want live in another city.Its stoping me.Kiev its mother of russian cities. I think independence no sense for Ukraine.We must be part of Russia.My hope its Great Slavian Union. Which countries do you thnik should be part of the Great Slavian Union? All slavian countries.Bulgaria its too slavian coutry.But i doesnt know about Bulgaria want it or not.But Ukraine-Russia-Belarus union its first step. Will russia be leader of that? Or do all those countries have same rights? The stupidest thing about this whole idea is that it failed horribly not even 30 years ago. That's barely history. And now some people on the internet would be happy to see the Soviet Union reloaded.  History repeats itself. A generation have become old enough to call them selfs men but they are young enough that they havent lived or experienced what they talk about. They want a war of their own and their own utopia. There are also old people, the `knocking people' and the communist party functionaries, who remember getting a lot for something they perceived to be very little (just their souls), who now resent living in a free society and long to get all their privileges back.
Its not just about privileges. Its about modernity -- its complicated, and from their point of view they probably already forgot the petty corruption of the soviet era, so if you dont see the victims of the soviet union but feel like a victim of 'democracy' then of course youll turn against democracy. Especially if you are old and all the shitty things about the USSR are happily forgotten in the mists of elderly people's memory.
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On March 18 2014 00:45 Gamlet wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2014 00:20 mdb wrote:On March 18 2014 00:18 Gamlet wrote:On March 17 2014 23:49 Fjodorov wrote:On March 17 2014 23:41 Gamlet wrote:
I am from Kiev.And i want to be part of Russia. Whats stopping you? Are you not welcome in Russia? Or wait, lets have every minority in every country create independent countries or join other countries. I love Kiev.And i doesnt want live in another city.Its stoping me.Kiev its mother of russian cities. I think independence no sense for Ukraine.We must be part of Russia.My hope its Great Slavian Union. Which countries do you thnik should be part of the Great Slavian Union? All slavian countries.Bulgaria its too slavian coutry.But i doesnt know about Bulgaria want it or not.But Ukraine-Russia-Belarus union its first step.
I say 'fuck you' to that 'Great Slavic Union'. Bulgaria has already lost a lot in terms of politics, economy and morale from the USSR. So please don't push this crap again to us. On top of that, Russia will never treat other countries fairly. Remember the term 'soviet satellites'? Well, now you know.
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On March 18 2014 02:43 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2014 02:25 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:On March 18 2014 02:19 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:On March 18 2014 02:13 Sent. wrote:
I know Eastern Ukraine is more pro Russian than Western part but can you tell me if it's dominated by ethnic Russians like Crimea or by Russian speaking Ukrainians? To be completely honest, it's hard to find this pattern between them, especially 23 years since USSR disband. Same with Ukranians here, you basically never know besides accent sometimes that it's Ukranian Russian and not native. To be frank, younger generations are almost completely turned to west, elder to east. Kharkov for example, is the biggest student city, with big amount of highschools. Hard to find a common language between students and pre-pensionary age people. I started a conversation with few people, and I said that I will never support pro-russian strikes and big Russian flag on our streets, and few minutes later couple of people already called me as Banderovets. How can it be, that tine reason to call me an ultra radical? Russian speaking banderovets? Those people were close to 30, some of them from Russia, some of the from Donetsk, and some from Kharkov. In their eyes, if I'm not supporting this kind of strikes, and if I'm supporting pro-russian vector - i'm Banderovets. Pro-Ukranian* :D It's logical i guess, that young generations turn to West, universities and stuff are tempting. People just tend to exaggerate each side of conflict without even trying to find some common points.
It is very complicated to find a common language, my grandma thought that every girl i'm talking is a whore, cause they used cosmetics, she thought that PC is a source of evil and it ruins my mind, and she told me so many cool stories about USSR, how everything was perfect, sun was shining brightly and so on...At the same time she was "close to church", which was out of law in USSR. U can't just simply find a common language with those generations, they are different.
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On March 18 2014 02:54 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2014 02:43 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:On March 18 2014 02:25 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:On March 18 2014 02:19 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:On March 18 2014 02:13 Sent. wrote:
I know Eastern Ukraine is more pro Russian than Western part but can you tell me if it's dominated by ethnic Russians like Crimea or by Russian speaking Ukrainians? To be completely honest, it's hard to find this pattern between them, especially 23 years since USSR disband. Same with Ukranians here, you basically never know besides accent sometimes that it's Ukranian Russian and not native. To be frank, younger generations are almost completely turned to west, elder to east. Kharkov for example, is the biggest student city, with big amount of highschools. Hard to find a common language between students and pre-pensionary age people. I started a conversation with few people, and I said that I will never support pro-russian strikes and big Russian flag on our streets, and few minutes later couple of people already called me as Banderovets. How can it be, that tine reason to call me an ultra radical? Russian speaking banderovets? Those people were close to 30, some of them from Russia, some of the from Donetsk, and some from Kharkov. In their eyes, if I'm not supporting this kind of strikes, and if I'm supporting pro-russian vector - i'm Banderovets. Pro-Ukranian* :D It's logical i guess, that young generations turn to West, universities and stuff are tempting. People just tend to exaggerate each side of conflict without even trying to find some common points. It is very complicated to find a common language, my grandma thought that every girl i'm talking is a whore, cause they used cosmetics, she thought that PC is a source of evil and it ruins my mind, and she told me so many cool stories about USSR, how everything was perfect, sun was shining brightly and so on...At the same time she was "close to church", which was out of law in USSR. U can't just simply find a common language with those generations, they are different.
Yes, I can confirm this USSR nostalgia is still common among mainly the older generations (basically, grandfathers and grandmothers). They always try to represent USSR as some very cool thing, and then this "evil democracy" has come to rip off everyone, lol.
But then again, here are some of downsides of USSR (as they were in Bulgaria):
- You had to wait for a car. I've heard the time to wait for was like 10 years.
- You had at least one day of Russian TV.
- Russian was a mandatory language to learn.
- You weren't allowed to travel outside USSR territories. However, some exceptions were made (e.g. if there was a concert).
- People were getting the same salary even if some of their colleagues were working harder. Basically, no reward for harder work.
- People were able to bypass exams, and apply for universities just based on political bonds not performance.
- If you were not from the communist party, you had little work opportunity if any at all.
- The Big Brother thing, everyone was spied. Too much police on street. I take this time to criticise UK's excessive CCTV as well.
- There wasn't certain food in shops, e.g. bananas. People were waiting on queues to get some, and I think that was on a special day.
- Prices were kept static, so you can imagine that inflation was dealt with without people's knowledge. Then, it backfired because it was one of the reasons Bulgaria bankrupted. Too many loans.
- Religion was banned because, you know, the only "god" is the communist dictator.
Disclaimer: This is what I've been hearing from older generations. I wasn't born during USSR times.
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On March 18 2014 02:26 Ghanburighan wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2014 02:02 nunez wrote:from reddit re that 127%-article posted earlier: Somebody mixed 1 724 563 and 1 563 724.
If we subtract 1563724 - 1250426 we get 313298 voters in Sevastopol.
Dividing by the population of 385462(which is inaccurate), you get 81.3%. The stated ratio is 82,71%. They are quoting the press-conference of the local election official who clearly says 1,524,563 total voters at about 1 minute mark. The correspondent of the ITAR-TASS agency was either listening to something else or playing Flappy Bird or whatever and originally quoted that official as saying 1,724,563 total voters. Half an hour after that they reported 1,524,563. It's a typo in one report, not a conspiracy. posting cold hard verifiable facts eh? I'm wrong because someone on reddit says so? Let's wait and see which way it goes once people have time to analyze it properly. Also, I don't appreciate the personal attack considering that the news was reported by a large number of news agencies. If we get personal, how about you being demonstrably misleading in your depiction of facts (most recently with your construal of the Crimean opinion poll from last year) yet failing to own up to it.
no, you're wrong because of the content of those posts. the 1724563 figure is wrong, 1533208 attendees was the reported figure from the press-conference (maybe you can confirm, i dunno ruski ~1 minute, but wiki also says 1.5 milll). when adjusted for this the percentage is is ~81.3% (rounded up even).
me thinking majoirty of crimea pro-russia right now is my opinion based on some opinions. have already given justification for it.
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On March 18 2014 03:02 darkness wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2014 02:54 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:On March 18 2014 02:43 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:On March 18 2014 02:25 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:On March 18 2014 02:19 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:On March 18 2014 02:13 Sent. wrote:
I know Eastern Ukraine is more pro Russian than Western part but can you tell me if it's dominated by ethnic Russians like Crimea or by Russian speaking Ukrainians? To be completely honest, it's hard to find this pattern between them, especially 23 years since USSR disband. Same with Ukranians here, you basically never know besides accent sometimes that it's Ukranian Russian and not native. To be frank, younger generations are almost completely turned to west, elder to east. Kharkov for example, is the biggest student city, with big amount of highschools. Hard to find a common language between students and pre-pensionary age people. I started a conversation with few people, and I said that I will never support pro-russian strikes and big Russian flag on our streets, and few minutes later couple of people already called me as Banderovets. How can it be, that tine reason to call me an ultra radical? Russian speaking banderovets? Those people were close to 30, some of them from Russia, some of the from Donetsk, and some from Kharkov. In their eyes, if I'm not supporting this kind of strikes, and if I'm supporting pro-russian vector - i'm Banderovets. Pro-Ukranian* :D It's logical i guess, that young generations turn to West, universities and stuff are tempting. People just tend to exaggerate each side of conflict without even trying to find some common points. It is very complicated to find a common language, my grandma thought that every girl i'm talking is a whore, cause they used cosmetics, she thought that PC is a source of evil and it ruins my mind, and she told me so many cool stories about USSR, how everything was perfect, sun was shining brightly and so on...At the same time she was "close to church", which was out of law in USSR. U can't just simply find a common language with those generations, they are different. Yes, I can confirm this USSR nostalgia is still common among mainly the older generations (basically, grandfathers and grandmothers). They always try to represent USSR as some very cool thing, and then this "evil democracy" has come to rip off everyone, lol. But then again, here are some of downsides of USSR (as they were in Bulgaria): - You had to wait for a car. I've heard the time to wait for was like 10 years. - You had at least one day of Russian TV. - Russian was a mandatory language to learn. - You weren't allowed to travel outside USSR territories. However, some exceptions were made (e.g. if there was a concert). - People were getting the same salary even if some of their colleagues were harder. Basically, no reward for harder work. - People were able to bypass exams, and apply for universities just based on political bonds not performance. - If you were not from the communist party, you had little work opportunity if any at all. - The Big Brother thing, everyone was spied. Too much police on street. I take this time to criticise UK's excessive CCTV as well. - There wasn't certain food in shops, e.g. bananas. People were waiting on queues to get some, and I think that was on a special day. - Prices were kept static, so you can imagine that inflation was dealt with without people's knowledge. Then, it backfired because it was one of the reasons Bulgaria bankrupted. Too many loans. Disclaimer: This is what I've been heard from older generation. I wasn't born during USSR times.
Yes, everything is correct. Although food was cheap, Police worked pretty fine, medcine was free, people were more in sports. It was the only thing that I see were good.
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EPT
