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On March 16 2014 05:55 SilentchiLL wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2014 05:46 Feartheguru wrote:On March 16 2014 05:41 SilentchiLL wrote:On March 16 2014 05:31 Feartheguru wrote:On March 16 2014 05:28 SilentchiLL wrote:On March 16 2014 05:22 Feartheguru wrote:On March 16 2014 03:14 aksfjh wrote:On March 16 2014 02:56 Feartheguru wrote:
I feel bad for the Russian posters here, taking moderate stances, pointing out very clear hypocrisies and getting personal insults from an army of drones. Western media truly is better than Russian, they are subtle enough to make their people think they are seeing the truth and that only the other side is spreading propaganda.
The rules that govern the world isn't based on fairness, it's based on national interests. Every country gets what they can when they can. America split Kosovo off from Serbia to weaken Russia, they didn't do it 'for the peoples' right to self-determination. Now that Russia is trying to do a very similar thing, they oppose it tooth and nail because it's against their nation interests. You know what, that's hypocrisy is perfectly fine, because that's how the world has always worked, by don't be an idiot and try to claim the two situations are different because of some tiny detail. Any rational thinker would realize what Russia is doing now isn't nearly as bad as Kosovo or Iraq, since no lives are lost in their pursuit of interests. But again, western media I applaud you. There's a difference between prioritizing which genocidal country you intervene in by national interests and invading any country for the SOLE purpose of national interests. Iraq. Can people stop derailing the thread with the "But America!" argument? I'm not even american and even I notice that it keeps on happening even if it has little to do with the actual situation at hand. Even if the US would be just as bad as Russia it really wouldn't matter since this thread isn't a USA vs Russia thread, it's a thread about the the crisis in the Ukraine. You can't justify Russia's actions by the actions of the States in the past and if that's not what your intention is and you just want to write what you think about the USA's foreign policy then this simply isn't the place for it. On March 16 2014 05:02 Ghanburighan wrote:
Can anybody tell me if Putin will actually care about this? Everyone agrees what Russia is doing is wrong, not everyone agrees whether they are the "baddie" of the world or just acting like everyone else. So what's your point, rather a discussion on the part people disagree on, should we just all circlejerk about how wrong Russia is and high 5 each other? How the hell did you manage to COMPLETELY ignore the part about the Kosovo War? I'm not getting into the pointless argument that you or whoever responded about it wants to have, when there's so much ideology here no one is being convinced of anything, So you realized that you fucked up hard when you said that Russia's invasion of the Ukraine isn't "nearly as bad as Kosovo" because it was probably the one war you can't call the US as evil imperialists out for and now try to say that you don't want to get into it because there's too much ideology involved? Since you obviously didn't know anything about the war I hope that you atleast read the wikipedia link I provided you with by now, everybody likes to bash the US sometimes, but please atleast stick to wars you know something about before condemning the US for them.
Thanks for putting words in my mouth, you must feel so accomplished now LOL.
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On March 16 2014 05:57 Roman666 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2014 05:53 Feartheguru wrote:On March 16 2014 05:50 Roman666 wrote:On March 16 2014 05:46 Feartheguru wrote:On March 16 2014 05:41 SilentchiLL wrote:On March 16 2014 05:31 Feartheguru wrote:On March 16 2014 05:28 SilentchiLL wrote:On March 16 2014 05:22 Feartheguru wrote:On March 16 2014 03:14 aksfjh wrote:On March 16 2014 02:56 Feartheguru wrote:
I feel bad for the Russian posters here, taking moderate stances, pointing out very clear hypocrisies and getting personal insults from an army of drones. Western media truly is better than Russian, they are subtle enough to make their people think they are seeing the truth and that only the other side is spreading propaganda.
The rules that govern the world isn't based on fairness, it's based on national interests. Every country gets what they can when they can. America split Kosovo off from Serbia to weaken Russia, they didn't do it 'for the peoples' right to self-determination. Now that Russia is trying to do a very similar thing, they oppose it tooth and nail because it's against their nation interests. You know what, that's hypocrisy is perfectly fine, because that's how the world has always worked, by don't be an idiot and try to claim the two situations are different because of some tiny detail. Any rational thinker would realize what Russia is doing now isn't nearly as bad as Kosovo or Iraq, since no lives are lost in their pursuit of interests. But again, western media I applaud you. There's a difference between prioritizing which genocidal country you intervene in by national interests and invading any country for the SOLE purpose of national interests. Iraq. Can people stop derailing the thread with the "But America!" argument? I'm not even american and even I notice that it keeps on happening even if it has little to do with the actual situation at hand. Even if the US would be just as bad as Russia it really wouldn't matter since this thread isn't a USA vs Russia thread, it's a thread about the the crisis in the Ukraine. You can't justify Russia's actions by the actions of the States in the past and if that's not what your intention is and you just want to write what you think about the USA's foreign policy then this simply isn't the place for it. Can anybody tell me if Putin will actually care about this? Everyone agrees what Russia is doing is wrong, not everyone agrees whether they are the "baddie" of the world or just acting like everyone else. So what's your point, rather a discussion on the part people disagree on, should we just all circlejerk about how wrong Russia is and high 5 each other? How the hell did you manage to COMPLETELY ignore the part about the Kosovo War? Because the point of mentioning the Kosova war is that along with Iraq, I can paint a picture of America also doing whatever it takes, right or wrong to pursue their own national interests just like Russia, I'm not getting into the pointless argument that you or whoever responded about it wants to have, when there's so much ideology here no one is being convinced of anything, Except US had no national interest in Kosovo, so your argument does not hold here. And please, can we stop the derailment with "But USA"? USA is not saint, people got it, people know it, let us stop right here, and discuss the matter at hand. Their national interest is they are weakening Serbia, a Russian ally. Really, Serbia is a Russian ally? And that is why they started accession talks with EU, right?
Oh things in 1999 isn't exactly the same as 2014? Wow you just blew my mind man.
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On March 16 2014 05:57 Roman666 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2014 05:53 Feartheguru wrote:On March 16 2014 05:50 Roman666 wrote:On March 16 2014 05:46 Feartheguru wrote:On March 16 2014 05:41 SilentchiLL wrote:On March 16 2014 05:31 Feartheguru wrote:On March 16 2014 05:28 SilentchiLL wrote:On March 16 2014 05:22 Feartheguru wrote:On March 16 2014 03:14 aksfjh wrote:On March 16 2014 02:56 Feartheguru wrote:
I feel bad for the Russian posters here, taking moderate stances, pointing out very clear hypocrisies and getting personal insults from an army of drones. Western media truly is better than Russian, they are subtle enough to make their people think they are seeing the truth and that only the other side is spreading propaganda.
The rules that govern the world isn't based on fairness, it's based on national interests. Every country gets what they can when they can. America split Kosovo off from Serbia to weaken Russia, they didn't do it 'for the peoples' right to self-determination. Now that Russia is trying to do a very similar thing, they oppose it tooth and nail because it's against their nation interests. You know what, that's hypocrisy is perfectly fine, because that's how the world has always worked, by don't be an idiot and try to claim the two situations are different because of some tiny detail. Any rational thinker would realize what Russia is doing now isn't nearly as bad as Kosovo or Iraq, since no lives are lost in their pursuit of interests. But again, western media I applaud you. There's a difference between prioritizing which genocidal country you intervene in by national interests and invading any country for the SOLE purpose of national interests. Iraq. Can people stop derailing the thread with the "But America!" argument? I'm not even american and even I notice that it keeps on happening even if it has little to do with the actual situation at hand. Even if the US would be just as bad as Russia it really wouldn't matter since this thread isn't a USA vs Russia thread, it's a thread about the the crisis in the Ukraine. You can't justify Russia's actions by the actions of the States in the past and if that's not what your intention is and you just want to write what you think about the USA's foreign policy then this simply isn't the place for it. Can anybody tell me if Putin will actually care about this? Everyone agrees what Russia is doing is wrong, not everyone agrees whether they are the "baddie" of the world or just acting like everyone else. So what's your point, rather a discussion on the part people disagree on, should we just all circlejerk about how wrong Russia is and high 5 each other? How the hell did you manage to COMPLETELY ignore the part about the Kosovo War? Because the point of mentioning the Kosova war is that along with Iraq, I can paint a picture of America also doing whatever it takes, right or wrong to pursue their own national interests just like Russia, I'm not getting into the pointless argument that you or whoever responded about it wants to have, when there's so much ideology here no one is being convinced of anything, Except US had no national interest in Kosovo, so your argument does not hold here. And please, can we stop the derailment with "But USA"? USA is not saint, people got it, people know it, let us stop right here, and discuss the matter at hand. Their national interest is they are weakening Serbia, a Russian ally. Really, Serbia is a Russian ally? And that is why they started accession talks with EU, right?
To deny that Serbia isn't very cozy with Russia is absurd.
To deny that a tiny country joining a nearly-continental economic union is a godsend for a country in terrible shape (though not as bad as Ukraine's) as Serbia is further absurd. EU isn't a political/military alliance group, as much as toy poodles like Germany and Britain would like to make it seem as such.
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On March 16 2014 05:58 Feartheguru wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2014 05:55 SilentchiLL wrote:On March 16 2014 05:46 Feartheguru wrote:On March 16 2014 05:41 SilentchiLL wrote:On March 16 2014 05:31 Feartheguru wrote:On March 16 2014 05:28 SilentchiLL wrote:On March 16 2014 05:22 Feartheguru wrote:On March 16 2014 03:14 aksfjh wrote:On March 16 2014 02:56 Feartheguru wrote:
I feel bad for the Russian posters here, taking moderate stances, pointing out very clear hypocrisies and getting personal insults from an army of drones. Western media truly is better than Russian, they are subtle enough to make their people think they are seeing the truth and that only the other side is spreading propaganda.
The rules that govern the world isn't based on fairness, it's based on national interests. Every country gets what they can when they can. America split Kosovo off from Serbia to weaken Russia, they didn't do it 'for the peoples' right to self-determination. Now that Russia is trying to do a very similar thing, they oppose it tooth and nail because it's against their nation interests. You know what, that's hypocrisy is perfectly fine, because that's how the world has always worked, by don't be an idiot and try to claim the two situations are different because of some tiny detail. Any rational thinker would realize what Russia is doing now isn't nearly as bad as Kosovo or Iraq, since no lives are lost in their pursuit of interests. But again, western media I applaud you. There's a difference between prioritizing which genocidal country you intervene in by national interests and invading any country for the SOLE purpose of national interests. Iraq. Can people stop derailing the thread with the "But America!" argument? I'm not even american and even I notice that it keeps on happening even if it has little to do with the actual situation at hand. Even if the US would be just as bad as Russia it really wouldn't matter since this thread isn't a USA vs Russia thread, it's a thread about the the crisis in the Ukraine. You can't justify Russia's actions by the actions of the States in the past and if that's not what your intention is and you just want to write what you think about the USA's foreign policy then this simply isn't the place for it. Can anybody tell me if Putin will actually care about this? Everyone agrees what Russia is doing is wrong, not everyone agrees whether they are the "baddie" of the world or just acting like everyone else. So what's your point, rather a discussion on the part people disagree on, should we just all circlejerk about how wrong Russia is and high 5 each other? How the hell did you manage to COMPLETELY ignore the part about the Kosovo War? I'm not getting into the pointless argument that you or whoever responded about it wants to have, when there's so much ideology here no one is being convinced of anything, So you realized that you fucked up hard when you said that Russia's invasion of the Ukraine isn't "nearly as bad as Kosovo" because it was probably the one war you can't call the US as evil imperialists out for and now try to say that you don't want to get into it because there's too much ideology involved? Since you obviously didn't know anything about the war I hope that you atleast read the wikipedia link I provided you with by now, everybody likes to bash the US sometimes, but please atleast stick to wars you know something about before condemning the US for them. Thanks for putting words in my mouth, you must feel so accomplished now LOL.
I directly quoted you.
On March 16 2014 02:56 Feartheguru wrote:
Any rational thinker would realize what Russia is doing now isn't nearly as bad as Kosovo or Iraq, since no lives are lost in their pursuit of interests. But again, western media I applaud you.
In case you haven't noticed the no lives being lost part isn't true either since Russia is atleast partially responsible for what Yanukovich did by backing him before and during the revolution already.
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http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2014/03/pathetic-lives-of-putins-american-dupes.html
The demise of communism has left a void in the place where socialist fervor once animated the Soviet dupes. In the absence of any positive motivating force, Putin’s Russia, which has positioned itself as America’s main rival, has sponged up whatever motley collection of outsiders it can find. Russia is not the vessel for their ideological fantasies, but merely a placeholder for their accumulated discontent.
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On March 16 2014 06:02 SilentchiLL wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2014 05:58 Feartheguru wrote:On March 16 2014 05:55 SilentchiLL wrote:On March 16 2014 05:46 Feartheguru wrote:On March 16 2014 05:41 SilentchiLL wrote:On March 16 2014 05:31 Feartheguru wrote:On March 16 2014 05:28 SilentchiLL wrote:On March 16 2014 05:22 Feartheguru wrote:On March 16 2014 03:14 aksfjh wrote:On March 16 2014 02:56 Feartheguru wrote:
I feel bad for the Russian posters here, taking moderate stances, pointing out very clear hypocrisies and getting personal insults from an army of drones. Western media truly is better than Russian, they are subtle enough to make their people think they are seeing the truth and that only the other side is spreading propaganda.
The rules that govern the world isn't based on fairness, it's based on national interests. Every country gets what they can when they can. America split Kosovo off from Serbia to weaken Russia, they didn't do it 'for the peoples' right to self-determination. Now that Russia is trying to do a very similar thing, they oppose it tooth and nail because it's against their nation interests. You know what, that's hypocrisy is perfectly fine, because that's how the world has always worked, by don't be an idiot and try to claim the two situations are different because of some tiny detail. Any rational thinker would realize what Russia is doing now isn't nearly as bad as Kosovo or Iraq, since no lives are lost in their pursuit of interests. But again, western media I applaud you. There's a difference between prioritizing which genocidal country you intervene in by national interests and invading any country for the SOLE purpose of national interests. Iraq. Can people stop derailing the thread with the "But America!" argument? I'm not even american and even I notice that it keeps on happening even if it has little to do with the actual situation at hand. Even if the US would be just as bad as Russia it really wouldn't matter since this thread isn't a USA vs Russia thread, it's a thread about the the crisis in the Ukraine. You can't justify Russia's actions by the actions of the States in the past and if that's not what your intention is and you just want to write what you think about the USA's foreign policy then this simply isn't the place for it. Can anybody tell me if Putin will actually care about this? Everyone agrees what Russia is doing is wrong, not everyone agrees whether they are the "baddie" of the world or just acting like everyone else. So what's your point, rather a discussion on the part people disagree on, should we just all circlejerk about how wrong Russia is and high 5 each other? How the hell did you manage to COMPLETELY ignore the part about the Kosovo War? I'm not getting into the pointless argument that you or whoever responded about it wants to have, when there's so much ideology here no one is being convinced of anything, So you realized that you fucked up hard when you said that Russia's invasion of the Ukraine isn't "nearly as bad as Kosovo" because it was probably the one war you can't call the US as evil imperialists out for and now try to say that you don't want to get into it because there's too much ideology involved? Since you obviously didn't know anything about the war I hope that you atleast read the wikipedia link I provided you with by now, everybody likes to bash the US sometimes, but please atleast stick to wars you know something about before condemning the US for them. Thanks for putting words in my mouth, you must feel so accomplished now LOL. I directly quoted you.Show nested quote +On March 16 2014 02:56 Feartheguru wrote:
Any rational thinker would realize what Russia is doing now isn't nearly as bad as Kosovo or Iraq, since no lives are lost in their pursuit of interests. But again, western media I applaud you. In case you haven't noticed the no lives being lost part isn't true either since Russia is atleast partially responsible for what Yanukovich did by backing him before and during the revolution already.
By that logic, the US is at least partially responsible for much of the Islamic terrorism in the world for backing Gulf Arab states and other nations that breed and support Islamic terrorism.......
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On March 16 2014 06:02 SilentchiLL wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2014 05:58 Feartheguru wrote:On March 16 2014 05:55 SilentchiLL wrote:On March 16 2014 05:46 Feartheguru wrote:On March 16 2014 05:41 SilentchiLL wrote:On March 16 2014 05:31 Feartheguru wrote:On March 16 2014 05:28 SilentchiLL wrote:On March 16 2014 05:22 Feartheguru wrote:On March 16 2014 03:14 aksfjh wrote:On March 16 2014 02:56 Feartheguru wrote:
I feel bad for the Russian posters here, taking moderate stances, pointing out very clear hypocrisies and getting personal insults from an army of drones. Western media truly is better than Russian, they are subtle enough to make their people think they are seeing the truth and that only the other side is spreading propaganda.
The rules that govern the world isn't based on fairness, it's based on national interests. Every country gets what they can when they can. America split Kosovo off from Serbia to weaken Russia, they didn't do it 'for the peoples' right to self-determination. Now that Russia is trying to do a very similar thing, they oppose it tooth and nail because it's against their nation interests. You know what, that's hypocrisy is perfectly fine, because that's how the world has always worked, by don't be an idiot and try to claim the two situations are different because of some tiny detail. Any rational thinker would realize what Russia is doing now isn't nearly as bad as Kosovo or Iraq, since no lives are lost in their pursuit of interests. But again, western media I applaud you. There's a difference between prioritizing which genocidal country you intervene in by national interests and invading any country for the SOLE purpose of national interests. Iraq. Can people stop derailing the thread with the "But America!" argument? I'm not even american and even I notice that it keeps on happening even if it has little to do with the actual situation at hand. Even if the US would be just as bad as Russia it really wouldn't matter since this thread isn't a USA vs Russia thread, it's a thread about the the crisis in the Ukraine. You can't justify Russia's actions by the actions of the States in the past and if that's not what your intention is and you just want to write what you think about the USA's foreign policy then this simply isn't the place for it. Can anybody tell me if Putin will actually care about this? Everyone agrees what Russia is doing is wrong, not everyone agrees whether they are the "baddie" of the world or just acting like everyone else. So what's your point, rather a discussion on the part people disagree on, should we just all circlejerk about how wrong Russia is and high 5 each other? How the hell did you manage to COMPLETELY ignore the part about the Kosovo War? I'm not getting into the pointless argument that you or whoever responded about it wants to have, when there's so much ideology here no one is being convinced of anything, So you realized that you fucked up hard when you said that Russia's invasion of the Ukraine isn't "nearly as bad as Kosovo" because it was probably the one war you can't call the US as evil imperialists out for and now try to say that you don't want to get into it because there's too much ideology involved? Since you obviously didn't know anything about the war I hope that you atleast read the wikipedia link I provided you with by now, everybody likes to bash the US sometimes, but please atleast stick to wars you know something about before condemning the US for them. Thanks for putting words in my mouth, you must feel so accomplished now LOL. I directly quoted you.Show nested quote +On March 16 2014 02:56 Feartheguru wrote:
Any rational thinker would realize what Russia is doing now isn't nearly as bad as Kosovo or Iraq, since no lives are lost in their pursuit of interests. But again, western media I applaud you. In case you haven't noticed the no lives being lost part isn't true either since Russia is atleast partially responsible for what Yanukovich did by backing him before and during the revolution already.
In case you haven't noticed you said more than what you quoted. So if a country backs a leader than kills some citizens, the country that backed the leader is partially responsible? That's rich. I guess you agree every major country in the world is responsible for endless deaths and Russia is doing nothing out of the ordinary.
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On March 16 2014 06:05 JudicatorHammurabi wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2014 06:02 SilentchiLL wrote:On March 16 2014 05:58 Feartheguru wrote:On March 16 2014 05:55 SilentchiLL wrote:On March 16 2014 05:46 Feartheguru wrote:On March 16 2014 05:41 SilentchiLL wrote:On March 16 2014 05:31 Feartheguru wrote:On March 16 2014 05:28 SilentchiLL wrote:On March 16 2014 05:22 Feartheguru wrote:On March 16 2014 03:14 aksfjh wrote:
[quote]
There's a difference between prioritizing which genocidal country you intervene in by national interests and invading any country for the SOLE purpose of national interests.
Iraq. Can people stop derailing the thread with the "But America!" argument? I'm not even american and even I notice that it keeps on happening even if it has little to do with the actual situation at hand. Even if the US would be just as bad as Russia it really wouldn't matter since this thread isn't a USA vs Russia thread, it's a thread about the the crisis in the Ukraine. You can't justify Russia's actions by the actions of the States in the past and if that's not what your intention is and you just want to write what you think about the USA's foreign policy then this simply isn't the place for it. Can anybody tell me if Putin will actually care about this? Everyone agrees what Russia is doing is wrong, not everyone agrees whether they are the "baddie" of the world or just acting like everyone else. So what's your point, rather a discussion on the part people disagree on, should we just all circlejerk about how wrong Russia is and high 5 each other? How the hell did you manage to COMPLETELY ignore the part about the Kosovo War? I'm not getting into the pointless argument that you or whoever responded about it wants to have, when there's so much ideology here no one is being convinced of anything, So you realized that you fucked up hard when you said that Russia's invasion of the Ukraine isn't "nearly as bad as Kosovo" because it was probably the one war you can't call the US as evil imperialists out for and now try to say that you don't want to get into it because there's too much ideology involved? Since you obviously didn't know anything about the war I hope that you atleast read the wikipedia link I provided you with by now, everybody likes to bash the US sometimes, but please atleast stick to wars you know something about before condemning the US for them. Thanks for putting words in my mouth, you must feel so accomplished now LOL. I directly quoted you.On March 16 2014 02:56 Feartheguru wrote:
Any rational thinker would realize what Russia is doing now isn't nearly as bad as Kosovo or Iraq, since no lives are lost in their pursuit of interests. But again, western media I applaud you. In case you haven't noticed the no lives being lost part isn't true either since Russia is atleast partially responsible for what Yanukovich did by backing him before and during the revolution already. By that logic, the US is responsible for at least partially responsible for much of the Islamic terrorism in the world for backing Gulf Arab states and other nations that breed and support Islamic terrorism.......
The US is responsible for much of the islamic terrorism since they even used to fund many of them directly to work against the USSR and then proceeded to meddle (not always unjustified of course) in their countries, often fighting against terrorists who wield weapons the US supplied them with in the past.
Though that's not the topic of the thread.
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On March 16 2014 06:00 Feartheguru wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2014 05:57 Roman666 wrote:On March 16 2014 05:53 Feartheguru wrote:On March 16 2014 05:50 Roman666 wrote:On March 16 2014 05:46 Feartheguru wrote:On March 16 2014 05:41 SilentchiLL wrote:On March 16 2014 05:31 Feartheguru wrote:On March 16 2014 05:28 SilentchiLL wrote:On March 16 2014 05:22 Feartheguru wrote:On March 16 2014 03:14 aksfjh wrote:
[quote]
There's a difference between prioritizing which genocidal country you intervene in by national interests and invading any country for the SOLE purpose of national interests.
Iraq. Can people stop derailing the thread with the "But America!" argument? I'm not even american and even I notice that it keeps on happening even if it has little to do with the actual situation at hand. Even if the US would be just as bad as Russia it really wouldn't matter since this thread isn't a USA vs Russia thread, it's a thread about the the crisis in the Ukraine. You can't justify Russia's actions by the actions of the States in the past and if that's not what your intention is and you just want to write what you think about the USA's foreign policy then this simply isn't the place for it. Can anybody tell me if Putin will actually care about this? Everyone agrees what Russia is doing is wrong, not everyone agrees whether they are the "baddie" of the world or just acting like everyone else. So what's your point, rather a discussion on the part people disagree on, should we just all circlejerk about how wrong Russia is and high 5 each other? How the hell did you manage to COMPLETELY ignore the part about the Kosovo War? Because the point of mentioning the Kosova war is that along with Iraq, I can paint a picture of America also doing whatever it takes, right or wrong to pursue their own national interests just like Russia, I'm not getting into the pointless argument that you or whoever responded about it wants to have, when there's so much ideology here no one is being convinced of anything, Except US had no national interest in Kosovo, so your argument does not hold here. And please, can we stop the derailment with "But USA"? USA is not saint, people got it, people know it, let us stop right here, and discuss the matter at hand. Their national interest is they are weakening Serbia, a Russian ally. Really, Serbia is a Russian ally? And that is why they started accession talks with EU, right? Oh things in 1999 isn't exactly the same as 2014? Wow you just blew my mind man.
It is you who talks about it in present tense with respect to past events. And please stop those ad hominem trips, they rather antagonize than sway the people to your side of the fence.
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On March 16 2014 06:06 Feartheguru wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2014 06:02 SilentchiLL wrote:On March 16 2014 05:58 Feartheguru wrote:On March 16 2014 05:55 SilentchiLL wrote:On March 16 2014 05:46 Feartheguru wrote:On March 16 2014 05:41 SilentchiLL wrote:On March 16 2014 05:31 Feartheguru wrote:On March 16 2014 05:28 SilentchiLL wrote:On March 16 2014 05:22 Feartheguru wrote:On March 16 2014 03:14 aksfjh wrote:
[quote]
There's a difference between prioritizing which genocidal country you intervene in by national interests and invading any country for the SOLE purpose of national interests.
Iraq. Can people stop derailing the thread with the "But America!" argument? I'm not even american and even I notice that it keeps on happening even if it has little to do with the actual situation at hand. Even if the US would be just as bad as Russia it really wouldn't matter since this thread isn't a USA vs Russia thread, it's a thread about the the crisis in the Ukraine. You can't justify Russia's actions by the actions of the States in the past and if that's not what your intention is and you just want to write what you think about the USA's foreign policy then this simply isn't the place for it. Can anybody tell me if Putin will actually care about this? Everyone agrees what Russia is doing is wrong, not everyone agrees whether they are the "baddie" of the world or just acting like everyone else. So what's your point, rather a discussion on the part people disagree on, should we just all circlejerk about how wrong Russia is and high 5 each other? How the hell did you manage to COMPLETELY ignore the part about the Kosovo War? I'm not getting into the pointless argument that you or whoever responded about it wants to have, when there's so much ideology here no one is being convinced of anything, So you realized that you fucked up hard when you said that Russia's invasion of the Ukraine isn't "nearly as bad as Kosovo" because it was probably the one war you can't call the US as evil imperialists out for and now try to say that you don't want to get into it because there's too much ideology involved? Since you obviously didn't know anything about the war I hope that you atleast read the wikipedia link I provided you with by now, everybody likes to bash the US sometimes, but please atleast stick to wars you know something about before condemning the US for them. Thanks for putting words in my mouth, you must feel so accomplished now LOL. I directly quoted you.On March 16 2014 02:56 Feartheguru wrote:
Any rational thinker would realize what Russia is doing now isn't nearly as bad as Kosovo or Iraq, since no lives are lost in their pursuit of interests. But again, western media I applaud you. In case you haven't noticed the no lives being lost part isn't true either since Russia is atleast partially responsible for what Yanukovich did by backing him before and during the revolution already. In case you haven't noticed you said more than what you quoted. So if a country backs a leader than kills some citizens, the country that backed the leader is partially responsible? That's rich. I guess you agree every major country in the world is responsible for endless deaths and Russia is doing nothing out of the ordinary.
The fact that is nothing out of the ordinary does not make it right.
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On March 16 2014 06:06 Feartheguru wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2014 06:02 SilentchiLL wrote:On March 16 2014 05:58 Feartheguru wrote:On March 16 2014 05:55 SilentchiLL wrote:On March 16 2014 05:46 Feartheguru wrote:On March 16 2014 05:41 SilentchiLL wrote:On March 16 2014 05:31 Feartheguru wrote:On March 16 2014 05:28 SilentchiLL wrote:On March 16 2014 05:22 Feartheguru wrote:On March 16 2014 03:14 aksfjh wrote:
[quote]
There's a difference between prioritizing which genocidal country you intervene in by national interests and invading any country for the SOLE purpose of national interests.
Iraq. Can people stop derailing the thread with the "But America!" argument? I'm not even american and even I notice that it keeps on happening even if it has little to do with the actual situation at hand. Even if the US would be just as bad as Russia it really wouldn't matter since this thread isn't a USA vs Russia thread, it's a thread about the the crisis in the Ukraine. You can't justify Russia's actions by the actions of the States in the past and if that's not what your intention is and you just want to write what you think about the USA's foreign policy then this simply isn't the place for it. Can anybody tell me if Putin will actually care about this? Everyone agrees what Russia is doing is wrong, not everyone agrees whether they are the "baddie" of the world or just acting like everyone else. So what's your point, rather a discussion on the part people disagree on, should we just all circlejerk about how wrong Russia is and high 5 each other? How the hell did you manage to COMPLETELY ignore the part about the Kosovo War? I'm not getting into the pointless argument that you or whoever responded about it wants to have, when there's so much ideology here no one is being convinced of anything, So you realized that you fucked up hard when you said that Russia's invasion of the Ukraine isn't "nearly as bad as Kosovo" because it was probably the one war you can't call the US as evil imperialists out for and now try to say that you don't want to get into it because there's too much ideology involved? Since you obviously didn't know anything about the war I hope that you atleast read the wikipedia link I provided you with by now, everybody likes to bash the US sometimes, but please atleast stick to wars you know something about before condemning the US for them. Thanks for putting words in my mouth, you must feel so accomplished now LOL. I directly quoted you.On March 16 2014 02:56 Feartheguru wrote:
Any rational thinker would realize what Russia is doing now isn't nearly as bad as Kosovo or Iraq, since no lives are lost in their pursuit of interests. But again, western media I applaud you. In case you haven't noticed the no lives being lost part isn't true either since Russia is atleast partially responsible for what Yanukovich did by backing him before and during the revolution already. In case you haven't noticed you said more than what you quoted. So if a country backs a leader than kills some citizens, the country that backed the leader is partially responsible? That's rich. I guess you agree every major country in the world is responsible for endless deaths and Russia is doing nothing out of the ordinary, until you are a hypocrite of course.
I'll ignore the second past of your post since I'm pretty sure that you only mentioned it to worm yourself out of the topic you tried to get out of several times already and focus on the bolded part.
Tell me what I said then and what's wrong with it, stop being so afraid of making clear statements and stop avoiding the issue, you had the audacity to compare the russian invasion of Ukraine with the american intervention in the Kosovo war and called what Russia is doing now not "nearly as bad as [the] Kosovo [War]" because "no lives are lost in their pursuit of interests" while you completely ignore that the US stopped a genocide and a war instead of starting one like Russia does right now and that the US had more reasons than just their "national interests" in mind.
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Stop trying to change the subject to USA. If you like, go make a thread and talk about it there. Stop trying to derail this thread with "but USA!" The past actions of USA does not matter to the current actions of Russia in Ukraine. That is if you do accept that those are Russian soldiers occupying the Crimean peninsular.
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On March 16 2014 06:01 JudicatorHammurabi wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2014 05:57 Roman666 wrote:On March 16 2014 05:53 Feartheguru wrote:On March 16 2014 05:50 Roman666 wrote:On March 16 2014 05:46 Feartheguru wrote:On March 16 2014 05:41 SilentchiLL wrote:On March 16 2014 05:31 Feartheguru wrote:On March 16 2014 05:28 SilentchiLL wrote:On March 16 2014 05:22 Feartheguru wrote:On March 16 2014 03:14 aksfjh wrote:
[quote]
There's a difference between prioritizing which genocidal country you intervene in by national interests and invading any country for the SOLE purpose of national interests.
Iraq. Can people stop derailing the thread with the "But America!" argument? I'm not even american and even I notice that it keeps on happening even if it has little to do with the actual situation at hand. Even if the US would be just as bad as Russia it really wouldn't matter since this thread isn't a USA vs Russia thread, it's a thread about the the crisis in the Ukraine. You can't justify Russia's actions by the actions of the States in the past and if that's not what your intention is and you just want to write what you think about the USA's foreign policy then this simply isn't the place for it. Can anybody tell me if Putin will actually care about this? Everyone agrees what Russia is doing is wrong, not everyone agrees whether they are the "baddie" of the world or just acting like everyone else. So what's your point, rather a discussion on the part people disagree on, should we just all circlejerk about how wrong Russia is and high 5 each other? How the hell did you manage to COMPLETELY ignore the part about the Kosovo War? Because the point of mentioning the Kosova war is that along with Iraq, I can paint a picture of America also doing whatever it takes, right or wrong to pursue their own national interests just like Russia, I'm not getting into the pointless argument that you or whoever responded about it wants to have, when there's so much ideology here no one is being convinced of anything, Except US had no national interest in Kosovo, so your argument does not hold here. And please, can we stop the derailment with "But USA"? USA is not saint, people got it, people know it, let us stop right here, and discuss the matter at hand. Their national interest is they are weakening Serbia, a Russian ally. Really, Serbia is a Russian ally? And that is why they started accession talks with EU, right? To deny that Serbia isn't very cozy with Russia is absurd. To deny that a tiny country joining a nearly-continental economic union is a godsend for a country in terrible shape (though not as bad as Ukraine's) as Serbia is further absurd. EU isn't a political/military alliance group, as much as toy poodles like Germany and Britain would like to make it seem as such.
I'm not quite sure I understood what you said. Serbia joining the EU would be good for us? Yes, of course it would be. It's just that the people running the pro-EU show in my country are a complete farce just like the ones in Ukraine. They have absolutely no idea what they are doing and try to cover up all their monumental fuckups with 'it will all be ok, we just need to get into the EU, just 10 more years'. Serbia has absolutely no plans to join NATO, though being surrounded by NATO countries means we have to just shut up and stay neutral. Everyone is perfectly fine with that.
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On March 16 2014 05:37 Feartheguru wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2014 05:35 Saryph wrote:On March 16 2014 05:31 Feartheguru wrote:On March 16 2014 05:28 SilentchiLL wrote:On March 16 2014 05:22 Feartheguru wrote:On March 16 2014 03:14 aksfjh wrote:On March 16 2014 02:56 Feartheguru wrote:
I feel bad for the Russian posters here, taking moderate stances, pointing out very clear hypocrisies and getting personal insults from an army of drones. Western media truly is better than Russian, they are subtle enough to make their people think they are seeing the truth and that only the other side is spreading propaganda.
The rules that govern the world isn't based on fairness, it's based on national interests. Every country gets what they can when they can. America split Kosovo off from Serbia to weaken Russia, they didn't do it 'for the peoples' right to self-determination. Now that Russia is trying to do a very similar thing, they oppose it tooth and nail because it's against their nation interests. You know what, that's hypocrisy is perfectly fine, because that's how the world has always worked, by don't be an idiot and try to claim the two situations are different because of some tiny detail. Any rational thinker would realize what Russia is doing now isn't nearly as bad as Kosovo or Iraq, since no lives are lost in their pursuit of interests. But again, western media I applaud you. There's a difference between prioritizing which genocidal country you intervene in by national interests and invading any country for the SOLE purpose of national interests. Iraq. Can people stop derailing the thread with the "But America!" argument? I'm not even american and even I notice that it keeps on happening even if it has little to do with the actual situation at hand. Even if the US would be just as bad as Russia it really wouldn't matter since this thread isn't a USA vs Russia thread, it's a thread about the the crisis in the Ukraine. You can't justify Russia's actions by the actions of the States in the past and if that's not what your intention is and you just want to write what you think about the USA's foreign policy then this simply isn't the place for it. Can anybody tell me if Putin will actually care about this? Everyone agrees what Russia is doing is wrong, not everyone agrees whether they are the "baddie" of the world or just acting like everyone else. So what's your point, rather a discussion on the part people disagree on, should we just all circlejerk about how wrong Russia is and high 5 each other? Well since quite a few posters in this thread have argued that Russia is doing the correct thing... Correct as in they are doing what they can get away with while pursing their national interests, just like what America, like it should, has done relentlessly for decades. When people accuse Russians of being evil, then naturally the response is "But America!". Seems like a very logical progression of the discussion.
This is like saying stealing is actually the right thing to do if you look from your own interests perspective. And there are other thieves too!
This US-hatred is making so many people incredibly short-sighted.
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On March 16 2014 06:32 zeo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2014 06:01 JudicatorHammurabi wrote:On March 16 2014 05:57 Roman666 wrote:On March 16 2014 05:53 Feartheguru wrote:On March 16 2014 05:50 Roman666 wrote:On March 16 2014 05:46 Feartheguru wrote:On March 16 2014 05:41 SilentchiLL wrote:On March 16 2014 05:31 Feartheguru wrote:On March 16 2014 05:28 SilentchiLL wrote:On March 16 2014 05:22 Feartheguru wrote:
[quote]
Iraq.
Can people stop derailing the thread with the "But America!" argument? I'm not even american and even I notice that it keeps on happening even if it has little to do with the actual situation at hand. Even if the US would be just as bad as Russia it really wouldn't matter since this thread isn't a USA vs Russia thread, it's a thread about the the crisis in the Ukraine. You can't justify Russia's actions by the actions of the States in the past and if that's not what your intention is and you just want to write what you think about the USA's foreign policy then this simply isn't the place for it. Can anybody tell me if Putin will actually care about this? Everyone agrees what Russia is doing is wrong, not everyone agrees whether they are the "baddie" of the world or just acting like everyone else. So what's your point, rather a discussion on the part people disagree on, should we just all circlejerk about how wrong Russia is and high 5 each other? How the hell did you manage to COMPLETELY ignore the part about the Kosovo War? Because the point of mentioning the Kosova war is that along with Iraq, I can paint a picture of America also doing whatever it takes, right or wrong to pursue their own national interests just like Russia, I'm not getting into the pointless argument that you or whoever responded about it wants to have, when there's so much ideology here no one is being convinced of anything, Except US had no national interest in Kosovo, so your argument does not hold here. And please, can we stop the derailment with "But USA"? USA is not saint, people got it, people know it, let us stop right here, and discuss the matter at hand. Their national interest is they are weakening Serbia, a Russian ally. Really, Serbia is a Russian ally? And that is why they started accession talks with EU, right? To deny that Serbia isn't very cozy with Russia is absurd. To deny that a tiny country joining a nearly-continental economic union is a godsend for a country in terrible shape (though not as bad as Ukraine's) as Serbia is further absurd. EU isn't a political/military alliance group, as much as toy poodles like Germany and Britain would like to make it seem as such. I'm not quite sure I understood what you said. Serbia joining the EU would be good for us? Yes, of course it would be. It's just that the people running the pro-EU show in my country are a complete farce just like the ones in Ukraine. They have absolutely no idea what they are doing and try to cover up all their monumental fuckups with 'it will all be ok, we just need to get into the EU, just 10 more years'. Serbia has absolutely no plans to join NATO, though being surrounded by NATO countries means we have to just shut up and stay neutral. Everyone is perfectly fine with that.
Yeah, I was saying what you are saying. I was simply contesting the logic that if, Serbia plans to join the European Union, it means that they don't like Russia. This logic makes no sense.
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On March 16 2014 06:32 zeo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2014 06:01 JudicatorHammurabi wrote:On March 16 2014 05:57 Roman666 wrote:On March 16 2014 05:53 Feartheguru wrote:On March 16 2014 05:50 Roman666 wrote:On March 16 2014 05:46 Feartheguru wrote:On March 16 2014 05:41 SilentchiLL wrote:On March 16 2014 05:31 Feartheguru wrote:On March 16 2014 05:28 SilentchiLL wrote:On March 16 2014 05:22 Feartheguru wrote:
[quote]
Iraq.
Can people stop derailing the thread with the "But America!" argument? I'm not even american and even I notice that it keeps on happening even if it has little to do with the actual situation at hand. Even if the US would be just as bad as Russia it really wouldn't matter since this thread isn't a USA vs Russia thread, it's a thread about the the crisis in the Ukraine. You can't justify Russia's actions by the actions of the States in the past and if that's not what your intention is and you just want to write what you think about the USA's foreign policy then this simply isn't the place for it. Can anybody tell me if Putin will actually care about this? Everyone agrees what Russia is doing is wrong, not everyone agrees whether they are the "baddie" of the world or just acting like everyone else. So what's your point, rather a discussion on the part people disagree on, should we just all circlejerk about how wrong Russia is and high 5 each other? How the hell did you manage to COMPLETELY ignore the part about the Kosovo War? Because the point of mentioning the Kosova war is that along with Iraq, I can paint a picture of America also doing whatever it takes, right or wrong to pursue their own national interests just like Russia, I'm not getting into the pointless argument that you or whoever responded about it wants to have, when there's so much ideology here no one is being convinced of anything, Except US had no national interest in Kosovo, so your argument does not hold here. And please, can we stop the derailment with "But USA"? USA is not saint, people got it, people know it, let us stop right here, and discuss the matter at hand. Their national interest is they are weakening Serbia, a Russian ally. Really, Serbia is a Russian ally? And that is why they started accession talks with EU, right? To deny that Serbia isn't very cozy with Russia is absurd. To deny that a tiny country joining a nearly-continental economic union is a godsend for a country in terrible shape (though not as bad as Ukraine's) as Serbia is further absurd. EU isn't a political/military alliance group, as much as toy poodles like Germany and Britain would like to make it seem as such. I'm not quite sure I understood what you said. Serbia joining the EU would be good for us? Yes, of course it would be. It's just that the people running the pro-EU show in my country are a complete farce just like the ones in Ukraine. They have absolutely no idea what they are doing and try to cover up all their monumental fuckups with 'it will all be ok, we just need to get into the EU, just 10 more years'. Serbia has absolutely no plans to join NATO, though being surrounded by NATO countries means we have to just shut up and stay neutral. Everyone is perfectly fine with that.
what political party are you affiliated with? You oppose the old Milosvecic party that is currently in power and signed the further EU protocols but you oppose the EU ascension which the Democrat Party signed up for. I am confused.
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On March 16 2014 06:36 Cheerio wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2014 05:37 Feartheguru wrote:On March 16 2014 05:35 Saryph wrote:On March 16 2014 05:31 Feartheguru wrote:On March 16 2014 05:28 SilentchiLL wrote:On March 16 2014 05:22 Feartheguru wrote:On March 16 2014 03:14 aksfjh wrote:On March 16 2014 02:56 Feartheguru wrote:
I feel bad for the Russian posters here, taking moderate stances, pointing out very clear hypocrisies and getting personal insults from an army of drones. Western media truly is better than Russian, they are subtle enough to make their people think they are seeing the truth and that only the other side is spreading propaganda.
The rules that govern the world isn't based on fairness, it's based on national interests. Every country gets what they can when they can. America split Kosovo off from Serbia to weaken Russia, they didn't do it 'for the peoples' right to self-determination. Now that Russia is trying to do a very similar thing, they oppose it tooth and nail because it's against their nation interests. You know what, that's hypocrisy is perfectly fine, because that's how the world has always worked, by don't be an idiot and try to claim the two situations are different because of some tiny detail. Any rational thinker would realize what Russia is doing now isn't nearly as bad as Kosovo or Iraq, since no lives are lost in their pursuit of interests. But again, western media I applaud you. There's a difference between prioritizing which genocidal country you intervene in by national interests and invading any country for the SOLE purpose of national interests. Iraq. Can people stop derailing the thread with the "But America!" argument? I'm not even american and even I notice that it keeps on happening even if it has little to do with the actual situation at hand. Even if the US would be just as bad as Russia it really wouldn't matter since this thread isn't a USA vs Russia thread, it's a thread about the the crisis in the Ukraine. You can't justify Russia's actions by the actions of the States in the past and if that's not what your intention is and you just want to write what you think about the USA's foreign policy then this simply isn't the place for it. Can anybody tell me if Putin will actually care about this? Everyone agrees what Russia is doing is wrong, not everyone agrees whether they are the "baddie" of the world or just acting like everyone else. So what's your point, rather a discussion on the part people disagree on, should we just all circlejerk about how wrong Russia is and high 5 each other? Well since quite a few posters in this thread have argued that Russia is doing the correct thing... Correct as in they are doing what they can get away with while pursing their national interests, just like what America, like it should, has done relentlessly for decades. When people accuse Russians of being evil, then naturally the response is "But America!". Seems like a very logical progression of the discussion. This is like saying stealing is actually the right thing to do if you look from your own interests perspective. And there are other thieves too! This US-hatred is making so many people incredibly short-sighted.
Absolutely not, its just people saying that NATO condemning someone for invading another country on a false pretext is incredible hypocritical. I don't really see the argument as supporting Russian involvement in Ukraine, just pointing out hypocrisy.
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Does the west sell a lot of weapons to Russia tho? and would not selling hurt them?
Genuine question. I have no idea
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On March 16 2014 06:42 JudicatorHammurabi wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2014 06:32 zeo wrote:On March 16 2014 06:01 JudicatorHammurabi wrote:On March 16 2014 05:57 Roman666 wrote:On March 16 2014 05:53 Feartheguru wrote:On March 16 2014 05:50 Roman666 wrote:On March 16 2014 05:46 Feartheguru wrote:On March 16 2014 05:41 SilentchiLL wrote:On March 16 2014 05:31 Feartheguru wrote:On March 16 2014 05:28 SilentchiLL wrote:
[quote]
Can people stop derailing the thread with the "But America!" argument?
I'm not even american and even I notice that it keeps on happening even if it has little to do with the actual situation at hand.
Even if the US would be just as bad as Russia it really wouldn't matter since this thread isn't a USA vs Russia thread, it's a thread about the the crisis in the Ukraine.
You can't justify Russia's actions by the actions of the States in the past and if that's not what your intention is and you just want to write what you think about the USA's foreign policy then this simply isn't the place for it.
[quote]
Can anybody tell me if Putin will actually care about this? Everyone agrees what Russia is doing is wrong, not everyone agrees whether they are the "baddie" of the world or just acting like everyone else. So what's your point, rather a discussion on the part people disagree on, should we just all circlejerk about how wrong Russia is and high 5 each other? How the hell did you manage to COMPLETELY ignore the part about the Kosovo War? Because the point of mentioning the Kosova war is that along with Iraq, I can paint a picture of America also doing whatever it takes, right or wrong to pursue their own national interests just like Russia, I'm not getting into the pointless argument that you or whoever responded about it wants to have, when there's so much ideology here no one is being convinced of anything, Except US had no national interest in Kosovo, so your argument does not hold here. And please, can we stop the derailment with "But USA"? USA is not saint, people got it, people know it, let us stop right here, and discuss the matter at hand. Their national interest is they are weakening Serbia, a Russian ally. Really, Serbia is a Russian ally? And that is why they started accession talks with EU, right? To deny that Serbia isn't very cozy with Russia is absurd. To deny that a tiny country joining a nearly-continental economic union is a godsend for a country in terrible shape (though not as bad as Ukraine's) as Serbia is further absurd. EU isn't a political/military alliance group, as much as toy poodles like Germany and Britain would like to make it seem as such. I'm not quite sure I understood what you said. Serbia joining the EU would be good for us? Yes, of course it would be. It's just that the people running the pro-EU show in my country are a complete farce just like the ones in Ukraine. They have absolutely no idea what they are doing and try to cover up all their monumental fuckups with 'it will all be ok, we just need to get into the EU, just 10 more years'. Serbia has absolutely no plans to join NATO, though being surrounded by NATO countries means we have to just shut up and stay neutral. Everyone is perfectly fine with that. Yeah, I was saying what you are saying. I was simply contesting the logic that if, Serbia plans to join the European Union, it means that they don't like Russia. This logic makes no sense.
Well it was not what I meant by it, sorry for not being clear on that matter. I rather meant aligned than allied.
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EPT
