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On March 16 2014 03:11 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2014 02:56 Feartheguru wrote:
I feel bad for the Russian posters here, taking moderate stances, pointing out very clear hypocrisies and getting personal insults from an army of drones. Western media truly is better than Russian, they are subtle enough to make their people think they are seeing the truth and that only the other side is spreading propaganda.
The rules that govern the world isn't based on fairness, it's based on national interests. Every country gets what they can when they can. America split Kosovo off from Serbia to weaken Russia, they didn't do it 'for the peoples' right to self-determination. Now that Russia is trying to do a very similar thing, they oppose it tooth and nail because it's against their nation interests. You know what, that's hypocrisy is perfectly fine, because that's how the world has always worked, by don't be an idiot and try to claim the two situations are different because of some tiny detail. Any rational thinker would realize what Russia is doing now isn't nearly as bad as Kosovo or Iraq, since no lives are lost in their pursuit of interests. But again, western media I applaud you. Yes because there totally weren't big protests again Iraq in the west. Kosovo was a bit before my time in international interest so I cant comment on that but don't pretend like no one in the west complains when the US pulls shit like this. As for the no loss of life. I would advise you to once again look around. People died during the Euromadian protests and people have died over this as recently as yesterday. Sure its not on the scale of Iraq and for that we have to thank the Ukrainian soldiers who have shown immense restrained against constant provocations by the Russian military to turn this into an actual shooting war.
People dying at Euromaiden is Russia's fault now? Thank you for proving my point that you are grasping at straws and fitting them to your worldview.
P.S. not that this is relevant but Ukrainian soldiers aren't showing restraint because they don't want it to turn it into a shooting war, they are showing restraint because they would be destroyed otherwise, to think anything else but be rather naive.
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the only arguments presented here are:
- US is right because its good
- Russia is wrong because its bad
and that's pretty much it. i feel bad for ukrainians.
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On March 16 2014 05:22 Feartheguru wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2014 03:14 aksfjh wrote:On March 16 2014 02:56 Feartheguru wrote:
I feel bad for the Russian posters here, taking moderate stances, pointing out very clear hypocrisies and getting personal insults from an army of drones. Western media truly is better than Russian, they are subtle enough to make their people think they are seeing the truth and that only the other side is spreading propaganda.
The rules that govern the world isn't based on fairness, it's based on national interests. Every country gets what they can when they can. America split Kosovo off from Serbia to weaken Russia, they didn't do it 'for the peoples' right to self-determination. Now that Russia is trying to do a very similar thing, they oppose it tooth and nail because it's against their nation interests. You know what, that's hypocrisy is perfectly fine, because that's how the world has always worked, by don't be an idiot and try to claim the two situations are different because of some tiny detail. Any rational thinker would realize what Russia is doing now isn't nearly as bad as Kosovo or Iraq, since no lives are lost in their pursuit of interests. But again, western media I applaud you. There's a difference between prioritizing which genocidal country you intervene in by national interests and invading any country for the SOLE purpose of national interests. Iraq.
Can people stop derailing the thread with the "But America!" argument?
I'm not even american and even I notice that it keeps on happening even if it has little to do with the actual situation at hand.
Even if the US would be just as bad as Russia it really wouldn't matter since this thread isn't a USA vs Russia thread, it's a thread about the the crisis in the Ukraine.
You can't justify Russia's actions by the actions of the States in the past and if that's not what your intention is and you just want to write what you think about the USA's foreign policy then this simply isn't the place for it.
On March 16 2014 05:02 Ghanburighan wrote:
Can anybody tell me if Putin will actually care about this?
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On March 16 2014 05:28 SilentchiLL wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2014 05:22 Feartheguru wrote:On March 16 2014 03:14 aksfjh wrote:On March 16 2014 02:56 Feartheguru wrote:
I feel bad for the Russian posters here, taking moderate stances, pointing out very clear hypocrisies and getting personal insults from an army of drones. Western media truly is better than Russian, they are subtle enough to make their people think they are seeing the truth and that only the other side is spreading propaganda.
The rules that govern the world isn't based on fairness, it's based on national interests. Every country gets what they can when they can. America split Kosovo off from Serbia to weaken Russia, they didn't do it 'for the peoples' right to self-determination. Now that Russia is trying to do a very similar thing, they oppose it tooth and nail because it's against their nation interests. You know what, that's hypocrisy is perfectly fine, because that's how the world has always worked, by don't be an idiot and try to claim the two situations are different because of some tiny detail. Any rational thinker would realize what Russia is doing now isn't nearly as bad as Kosovo or Iraq, since no lives are lost in their pursuit of interests. But again, western media I applaud you. There's a difference between prioritizing which genocidal country you intervene in by national interests and invading any country for the SOLE purpose of national interests. Iraq. Can people stop derailing the thread with the "But America!" argument? I'm not even american and even I notice that it keeps on happening even if it has little to do with the actual situation at hand. Even if the US would be just as bad as Russia it really wouldn't matter since this thread isn't a USA vs Russia thread, it's a thread about the the crisis in the Ukraine. You can't justify Russia's actions by the actions of the States in the past and if that's not what your intention is and you just want to write what you think about the USA's foreign policy then this simply isn't the place for it. Can anybody tell me if Putin will actually care about this?
Everyone agrees what Russia is doing is wrong, not everyone agrees whether they are the "baddie" of the world or just acting like everyone else. So what's your point, rather a discussion on the part people disagree on, should we just all circlejerk about how wrong Russia is and high 5 each other?
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On March 16 2014 05:31 Feartheguru wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2014 05:28 SilentchiLL wrote:On March 16 2014 05:22 Feartheguru wrote:On March 16 2014 03:14 aksfjh wrote:On March 16 2014 02:56 Feartheguru wrote:
I feel bad for the Russian posters here, taking moderate stances, pointing out very clear hypocrisies and getting personal insults from an army of drones. Western media truly is better than Russian, they are subtle enough to make their people think they are seeing the truth and that only the other side is spreading propaganda.
The rules that govern the world isn't based on fairness, it's based on national interests. Every country gets what they can when they can. America split Kosovo off from Serbia to weaken Russia, they didn't do it 'for the peoples' right to self-determination. Now that Russia is trying to do a very similar thing, they oppose it tooth and nail because it's against their nation interests. You know what, that's hypocrisy is perfectly fine, because that's how the world has always worked, by don't be an idiot and try to claim the two situations are different because of some tiny detail. Any rational thinker would realize what Russia is doing now isn't nearly as bad as Kosovo or Iraq, since no lives are lost in their pursuit of interests. But again, western media I applaud you. There's a difference between prioritizing which genocidal country you intervene in by national interests and invading any country for the SOLE purpose of national interests. Iraq. Can people stop derailing the thread with the "But America!" argument? I'm not even american and even I notice that it keeps on happening even if it has little to do with the actual situation at hand. Even if the US would be just as bad as Russia it really wouldn't matter since this thread isn't a USA vs Russia thread, it's a thread about the the crisis in the Ukraine. You can't justify Russia's actions by the actions of the States in the past and if that's not what your intention is and you just want to write what you think about the USA's foreign policy then this simply isn't the place for it. Can anybody tell me if Putin will actually care about this? Everyone agrees what Russia is doing is wrong, not everyone agrees whether they are the "baddie" of the world or just acting like everyone else. So what's your point, rather a discussion on the part people disagree on, should we just all circlejerk about how wrong Russia is and high 5 each other?
Well since quite a few posters in this thread have argued that Russia is doing the correct thing...
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On March 16 2014 05:35 Saryph wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2014 05:31 Feartheguru wrote:On March 16 2014 05:28 SilentchiLL wrote:On March 16 2014 05:22 Feartheguru wrote:On March 16 2014 03:14 aksfjh wrote:On March 16 2014 02:56 Feartheguru wrote:
I feel bad for the Russian posters here, taking moderate stances, pointing out very clear hypocrisies and getting personal insults from an army of drones. Western media truly is better than Russian, they are subtle enough to make their people think they are seeing the truth and that only the other side is spreading propaganda.
The rules that govern the world isn't based on fairness, it's based on national interests. Every country gets what they can when they can. America split Kosovo off from Serbia to weaken Russia, they didn't do it 'for the peoples' right to self-determination. Now that Russia is trying to do a very similar thing, they oppose it tooth and nail because it's against their nation interests. You know what, that's hypocrisy is perfectly fine, because that's how the world has always worked, by don't be an idiot and try to claim the two situations are different because of some tiny detail. Any rational thinker would realize what Russia is doing now isn't nearly as bad as Kosovo or Iraq, since no lives are lost in their pursuit of interests. But again, western media I applaud you. There's a difference between prioritizing which genocidal country you intervene in by national interests and invading any country for the SOLE purpose of national interests. Iraq. Can people stop derailing the thread with the "But America!" argument? I'm not even american and even I notice that it keeps on happening even if it has little to do with the actual situation at hand. Even if the US would be just as bad as Russia it really wouldn't matter since this thread isn't a USA vs Russia thread, it's a thread about the the crisis in the Ukraine. You can't justify Russia's actions by the actions of the States in the past and if that's not what your intention is and you just want to write what you think about the USA's foreign policy then this simply isn't the place for it. Can anybody tell me if Putin will actually care about this? Everyone agrees what Russia is doing is wrong, not everyone agrees whether they are the "baddie" of the world or just acting like everyone else. So what's your point, rather a discussion on the part people disagree on, should we just all circlejerk about how wrong Russia is and high 5 each other? Well since quite a few posters in this thread have argued that Russia is doing the correct thing...
Correct as in they are doing what they can get away with while pursing their national interests, just like what America, like it should, has done relentlessly for decades. When people accuse Russians of being evil, then naturally the response is "But America!". Seems like a very logical progression of the discussion.
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On March 16 2014 05:26 xM(Z wrote:
the only arguments presented here are:
- US is right because its good
- Russia is wrong because its bad
and that's pretty much it. i feel bad for ukrainians.
To preface, Russian incursion in Crimea is wrong, and while the Russia vs. EU/US tug-of-war is the reason for it in the first place, it is no proper justification (not that it's stated as one anyways; it's typically "protection of Russians", etc.). Both sides are full of justifications and propaganda. The reality is it's a tug-of-war, as mentioned earlier in the thread. EU has no economic interest in Ukraine joining the EU. If anything, it would probably make the Eurozone crisis magnitudes worse. Portugal, Greece, and other nations are already doing that, and their economies are a lot better than Ukraine's.
But EU's interest is that they're is against Russia gaining any sort of ground, and they're fighting in the only way they can, which is these proposed sanctions. This is why Russia is a bad guy in the US and European Union (and not just in this situation, but overall). When Russia was a non-functioning country (ie. couldn't stand against anyone's political and strategic interests and were very weak) in the 1990s, we praised them as being good guys, despite it being a lot more corrupt and chaotic than it is now.
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
On March 16 2014 03:17 kukarachaa wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2014 03:14 DeepElemBlues wrote:On March 16 2014 02:56 Feartheguru wrote:
I feel bad for the Russian posters here, taking moderate stances, pointing out very clear hypocrisies and getting personal insults from an army of drones. Western media truly is better than Russian, they are subtle enough to make their people think they are seeing the truth and that only the other side is spreading propaganda.
The rules that govern the world isn't based on fairness, it's based on national interests. Every country gets what they can when they can. America split Kosovo off from Serbia to weaken Russia, they didn't do it 'for the peoples' right to self-determination. Now that Russia is trying to do a very similar thing, they oppose it tooth and nail because it's against their nation interests. You know what, that's hypocrisy is perfectly fine, because that's how the world has always worked, by don't be an idiot and try to claim the two situations are different because of some tiny detail. Any rational thinker would realize what Russia is doing now isn't nearly as bad as Kosovo or Iraq, since no lives are lost in their pursuit of interests. But again, western media I applaud you. Ukraine is run by fascists or out and out Nazis is moderate. Photoshopped Hitler into the Maidan is moderate Pictures of guys with guns from years ago, claimed to be pictures of current protesters at the Maidan, is moderate Criticism of "personal insults" followed by calling people "an army of drones." That tired old grandma, "Western media so subtle you fooled!" Kosovo split off from Serbia to weaken Russia is a good fantasy, also Kosovo split off by America? Kosovo war was a creation of the EU. America provided the muscle. If the EU hadn't wanted it NATO would never have bombed Serbia. And the EU only wanted to bomb Serbia because Milosevic was being mini-Hitler and Europe was getting shellacked in world press for allowing a mini-Hitler to run around in Europe only 60 years after they did nothing about the big Hitler when he wasn't so big (and so he got big). No lives lost lol how many people were killed by Berkut controlled by Russia's puppets again? How many pro-Ukrainians have been murdered by pro-Russian militias again? How many tens of thousands of people killed by Russian weapons in the hands of Assad government in Syria again? How many Russian weapons shipped to Assad government since civil war began? Any rational thinker would realize that what Russia is doing right now is worse than Kosovo and just as bad as Iraq as it will cause great bloodshed in the future eventually just as Russia caused great bloodshed in Chechnya and is causing it in Syria right now (more dead in 3 years than in Iraq in 8, most of those killed with Russian weapons held by soldiers paid with Russian handouts to Assad but hey whatever, Western media so subtle). Eventually someone will fight back the way Chechnyans did and then people like you will be throwing out the sheeple attacks and blaming the West for inciting those fascist partisans to shoot at Russian soldiers occupying their country even more desperately. you pretty much validated everything he said with your post
the moderate stance would still condemn russia rather harshly. you are off your rocker
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On March 16 2014 05:31 Feartheguru wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2014 05:28 SilentchiLL wrote:On March 16 2014 05:22 Feartheguru wrote:On March 16 2014 03:14 aksfjh wrote:On March 16 2014 02:56 Feartheguru wrote:
I feel bad for the Russian posters here, taking moderate stances, pointing out very clear hypocrisies and getting personal insults from an army of drones. Western media truly is better than Russian, they are subtle enough to make their people think they are seeing the truth and that only the other side is spreading propaganda.
The rules that govern the world isn't based on fairness, it's based on national interests. Every country gets what they can when they can. America split Kosovo off from Serbia to weaken Russia, they didn't do it 'for the peoples' right to self-determination. Now that Russia is trying to do a very similar thing, they oppose it tooth and nail because it's against their nation interests. You know what, that's hypocrisy is perfectly fine, because that's how the world has always worked, by don't be an idiot and try to claim the two situations are different because of some tiny detail. Any rational thinker would realize what Russia is doing now isn't nearly as bad as Kosovo or Iraq, since no lives are lost in their pursuit of interests. But again, western media I applaud you. There's a difference between prioritizing which genocidal country you intervene in by national interests and invading any country for the SOLE purpose of national interests. Iraq. Can people stop derailing the thread with the "But America!" argument? I'm not even american and even I notice that it keeps on happening even if it has little to do with the actual situation at hand. Even if the US would be just as bad as Russia it really wouldn't matter since this thread isn't a USA vs Russia thread, it's a thread about the the crisis in the Ukraine. You can't justify Russia's actions by the actions of the States in the past and if that's not what your intention is and you just want to write what you think about the USA's foreign policy then this simply isn't the place for it. Can anybody tell me if Putin will actually care about this? Everyone agrees what Russia is doing is wrong, not everyone agrees whether they are the "baddie" of the world or just acting like everyone else. So what's your point, rather a discussion on the part people disagree on, should we just all circlejerk about how wrong Russia is and high 5 each other?
How the hell did you manage to COMPLETELY ignore the part about the Kosovo War?
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On March 16 2014 05:31 Feartheguru wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2014 05:28 SilentchiLL wrote:On March 16 2014 05:22 Feartheguru wrote:On March 16 2014 03:14 aksfjh wrote:On March 16 2014 02:56 Feartheguru wrote:
I feel bad for the Russian posters here, taking moderate stances, pointing out very clear hypocrisies and getting personal insults from an army of drones. Western media truly is better than Russian, they are subtle enough to make their people think they are seeing the truth and that only the other side is spreading propaganda.
The rules that govern the world isn't based on fairness, it's based on national interests. Every country gets what they can when they can. America split Kosovo off from Serbia to weaken Russia, they didn't do it 'for the peoples' right to self-determination. Now that Russia is trying to do a very similar thing, they oppose it tooth and nail because it's against their nation interests. You know what, that's hypocrisy is perfectly fine, because that's how the world has always worked, by don't be an idiot and try to claim the two situations are different because of some tiny detail. Any rational thinker would realize what Russia is doing now isn't nearly as bad as Kosovo or Iraq, since no lives are lost in their pursuit of interests. But again, western media I applaud you. There's a difference between prioritizing which genocidal country you intervene in by national interests and invading any country for the SOLE purpose of national interests. Iraq. Can people stop derailing the thread with the "But America!" argument? I'm not even american and even I notice that it keeps on happening even if it has little to do with the actual situation at hand. Even if the US would be just as bad as Russia it really wouldn't matter since this thread isn't a USA vs Russia thread, it's a thread about the the crisis in the Ukraine. You can't justify Russia's actions by the actions of the States in the past and if that's not what your intention is and you just want to write what you think about the USA's foreign policy then this simply isn't the place for it. Can anybody tell me if Putin will actually care about this? Everyone agrees what Russia is doing is wrong, not everyone agrees whether they are the "baddie" of the world or just acting like everyone else. So what's your point, rather a discussion on the part people disagree on, should we just all circlejerk about how wrong Russia is and high 5 each other?
no, not everyone. The russian posters you are so fond of are very much determined to prove that Russia is doing the right thing here.
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On March 16 2014 05:39 oneofthem wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2014 03:17 kukarachaa wrote:On March 16 2014 03:14 DeepElemBlues wrote:On March 16 2014 02:56 Feartheguru wrote:
I feel bad for the Russian posters here, taking moderate stances, pointing out very clear hypocrisies and getting personal insults from an army of drones. Western media truly is better than Russian, they are subtle enough to make their people think they are seeing the truth and that only the other side is spreading propaganda.
The rules that govern the world isn't based on fairness, it's based on national interests. Every country gets what they can when they can. America split Kosovo off from Serbia to weaken Russia, they didn't do it 'for the peoples' right to self-determination. Now that Russia is trying to do a very similar thing, they oppose it tooth and nail because it's against their nation interests. You know what, that's hypocrisy is perfectly fine, because that's how the world has always worked, by don't be an idiot and try to claim the two situations are different because of some tiny detail. Any rational thinker would realize what Russia is doing now isn't nearly as bad as Kosovo or Iraq, since no lives are lost in their pursuit of interests. But again, western media I applaud you. Ukraine is run by fascists or out and out Nazis is moderate. Photoshopped Hitler into the Maidan is moderate Pictures of guys with guns from years ago, claimed to be pictures of current protesters at the Maidan, is moderate Criticism of "personal insults" followed by calling people "an army of drones." That tired old grandma, "Western media so subtle you fooled!" Kosovo split off from Serbia to weaken Russia is a good fantasy, also Kosovo split off by America? Kosovo war was a creation of the EU. America provided the muscle. If the EU hadn't wanted it NATO would never have bombed Serbia. And the EU only wanted to bomb Serbia because Milosevic was being mini-Hitler and Europe was getting shellacked in world press for allowing a mini-Hitler to run around in Europe only 60 years after they did nothing about the big Hitler when he wasn't so big (and so he got big). No lives lost lol how many people were killed by Berkut controlled by Russia's puppets again? How many pro-Ukrainians have been murdered by pro-Russian militias again? How many tens of thousands of people killed by Russian weapons in the hands of Assad government in Syria again? How many Russian weapons shipped to Assad government since civil war began? Any rational thinker would realize that what Russia is doing right now is worse than Kosovo and just as bad as Iraq as it will cause great bloodshed in the future eventually just as Russia caused great bloodshed in Chechnya and is causing it in Syria right now (more dead in 3 years than in Iraq in 8, most of those killed with Russian weapons held by soldiers paid with Russian handouts to Assad but hey whatever, Western media so subtle). Eventually someone will fight back the way Chechnyans did and then people like you will be throwing out the sheeple attacks and blaming the West for inciting those fascist partisans to shoot at Russian soldiers occupying their country even more desperately. you pretty much validated everything he said with your post the moderate stance would still condemn russia rather harshly. you are off your rocker
Funny thing is, everyone considers their own views moderate lol
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On March 16 2014 05:28 SilentchiLL wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2014 05:22 Feartheguru wrote:On March 16 2014 03:14 aksfjh wrote:On March 16 2014 02:56 Feartheguru wrote:
I feel bad for the Russian posters here, taking moderate stances, pointing out very clear hypocrisies and getting personal insults from an army of drones. Western media truly is better than Russian, they are subtle enough to make their people think they are seeing the truth and that only the other side is spreading propaganda.
The rules that govern the world isn't based on fairness, it's based on national interests. Every country gets what they can when they can. America split Kosovo off from Serbia to weaken Russia, they didn't do it 'for the peoples' right to self-determination. Now that Russia is trying to do a very similar thing, they oppose it tooth and nail because it's against their nation interests. You know what, that's hypocrisy is perfectly fine, because that's how the world has always worked, by don't be an idiot and try to claim the two situations are different because of some tiny detail. Any rational thinker would realize what Russia is doing now isn't nearly as bad as Kosovo or Iraq, since no lives are lost in their pursuit of interests. But again, western media I applaud you. There's a difference between prioritizing which genocidal country you intervene in by national interests and invading any country for the SOLE purpose of national interests. Iraq. Can people stop derailing the thread with the "But America!" argument? I'm not even american and even I notice that it keeps on happening even if it has little to do with the actual situation at hand. Even if the US would be just as bad as Russia it really wouldn't matter since this thread isn't a USA vs Russia thread, it's a thread about the the crisis in the Ukraine. You can't justify Russia's actions by the actions of the States in the past and if that's not what your intention is and you just want to write what you think about the USA's foreign policy then this simply isn't the place for it. Can anybody tell me if Putin will actually care about this?
That may actually tick him off a bit. If we are talking the french ships at least. It would likely hurt Russia on their image, pride and military capability more than their economy, but that is probably a good thing.
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On March 16 2014 05:41 SilentchiLL wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2014 05:31 Feartheguru wrote:On March 16 2014 05:28 SilentchiLL wrote:On March 16 2014 05:22 Feartheguru wrote:On March 16 2014 03:14 aksfjh wrote:On March 16 2014 02:56 Feartheguru wrote:
I feel bad for the Russian posters here, taking moderate stances, pointing out very clear hypocrisies and getting personal insults from an army of drones. Western media truly is better than Russian, they are subtle enough to make their people think they are seeing the truth and that only the other side is spreading propaganda.
The rules that govern the world isn't based on fairness, it's based on national interests. Every country gets what they can when they can. America split Kosovo off from Serbia to weaken Russia, they didn't do it 'for the peoples' right to self-determination. Now that Russia is trying to do a very similar thing, they oppose it tooth and nail because it's against their nation interests. You know what, that's hypocrisy is perfectly fine, because that's how the world has always worked, by don't be an idiot and try to claim the two situations are different because of some tiny detail. Any rational thinker would realize what Russia is doing now isn't nearly as bad as Kosovo or Iraq, since no lives are lost in their pursuit of interests. But again, western media I applaud you. There's a difference between prioritizing which genocidal country you intervene in by national interests and invading any country for the SOLE purpose of national interests. Iraq. Can people stop derailing the thread with the "But America!" argument? I'm not even american and even I notice that it keeps on happening even if it has little to do with the actual situation at hand. Even if the US would be just as bad as Russia it really wouldn't matter since this thread isn't a USA vs Russia thread, it's a thread about the the crisis in the Ukraine. You can't justify Russia's actions by the actions of the States in the past and if that's not what your intention is and you just want to write what you think about the USA's foreign policy then this simply isn't the place for it. Can anybody tell me if Putin will actually care about this? Everyone agrees what Russia is doing is wrong, not everyone agrees whether they are the "baddie" of the world or just acting like everyone else. So what's your point, rather a discussion on the part people disagree on, should we just all circlejerk about how wrong Russia is and high 5 each other? How the hell did you manage to COMPLETELY ignore the part about the Kosovo War?
Because the point of mentioning the Kosova war is that along with Iraq, I can paint a picture of America also doing whatever it takes, right or wrong to pursue their own national interests just like Russia, I'm not getting into the pointless argument that you or whoever responded about it wants to have, when there's so much ideology here no one is being convinced of anything,
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On March 16 2014 05:41 Cheerio wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2014 05:31 Feartheguru wrote:On March 16 2014 05:28 SilentchiLL wrote:On March 16 2014 05:22 Feartheguru wrote:On March 16 2014 03:14 aksfjh wrote:On March 16 2014 02:56 Feartheguru wrote:
I feel bad for the Russian posters here, taking moderate stances, pointing out very clear hypocrisies and getting personal insults from an army of drones. Western media truly is better than Russian, they are subtle enough to make their people think they are seeing the truth and that only the other side is spreading propaganda.
The rules that govern the world isn't based on fairness, it's based on national interests. Every country gets what they can when they can. America split Kosovo off from Serbia to weaken Russia, they didn't do it 'for the peoples' right to self-determination. Now that Russia is trying to do a very similar thing, they oppose it tooth and nail because it's against their nation interests. You know what, that's hypocrisy is perfectly fine, because that's how the world has always worked, by don't be an idiot and try to claim the two situations are different because of some tiny detail. Any rational thinker would realize what Russia is doing now isn't nearly as bad as Kosovo or Iraq, since no lives are lost in their pursuit of interests. But again, western media I applaud you. There's a difference between prioritizing which genocidal country you intervene in by national interests and invading any country for the SOLE purpose of national interests. Iraq. Can people stop derailing the thread with the "But America!" argument? I'm not even american and even I notice that it keeps on happening even if it has little to do with the actual situation at hand. Even if the US would be just as bad as Russia it really wouldn't matter since this thread isn't a USA vs Russia thread, it's a thread about the the crisis in the Ukraine. You can't justify Russia's actions by the actions of the States in the past and if that's not what your intention is and you just want to write what you think about the USA's foreign policy then this simply isn't the place for it. Can anybody tell me if Putin will actually care about this? Everyone agrees what Russia is doing is wrong, not everyone agrees whether they are the "baddie" of the world or just acting like everyone else. So what's your point, rather a discussion on the part people disagree on, should we just all circlejerk about how wrong Russia is and high 5 each other? no, not everyone. The russian posters you are so fond of are very much determined to prove that Russia is doing the right thing here.
Not everyone per say, nevertheless my point stands, what a lot of people here would rather have is 50 people shitting on a couple Russians and their views which heavily contradict what most people here in the West believe. If they want an ego boost that bad they can ask mom to tell them how right they are.
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On March 16 2014 05:41 SilentchiLL wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2014 05:31 Feartheguru wrote:On March 16 2014 05:28 SilentchiLL wrote:On March 16 2014 05:22 Feartheguru wrote:On March 16 2014 03:14 aksfjh wrote:On March 16 2014 02:56 Feartheguru wrote:
I feel bad for the Russian posters here, taking moderate stances, pointing out very clear hypocrisies and getting personal insults from an army of drones. Western media truly is better than Russian, they are subtle enough to make their people think they are seeing the truth and that only the other side is spreading propaganda.
The rules that govern the world isn't based on fairness, it's based on national interests. Every country gets what they can when they can. America split Kosovo off from Serbia to weaken Russia, they didn't do it 'for the peoples' right to self-determination. Now that Russia is trying to do a very similar thing, they oppose it tooth and nail because it's against their nation interests. You know what, that's hypocrisy is perfectly fine, because that's how the world has always worked, by don't be an idiot and try to claim the two situations are different because of some tiny detail. Any rational thinker would realize what Russia is doing now isn't nearly as bad as Kosovo or Iraq, since no lives are lost in their pursuit of interests. But again, western media I applaud you. There's a difference between prioritizing which genocidal country you intervene in by national interests and invading any country for the SOLE purpose of national interests. Iraq. Can people stop derailing the thread with the "But America!" argument? I'm not even american and even I notice that it keeps on happening even if it has little to do with the actual situation at hand. Even if the US would be just as bad as Russia it really wouldn't matter since this thread isn't a USA vs Russia thread, it's a thread about the the crisis in the Ukraine. You can't justify Russia's actions by the actions of the States in the past and if that's not what your intention is and you just want to write what you think about the USA's foreign policy then this simply isn't the place for it. Can anybody tell me if Putin will actually care about this? Everyone agrees what Russia is doing is wrong, not everyone agrees whether they are the "baddie" of the world or just acting like everyone else. So what's your point, rather a discussion on the part people disagree on, should we just all circlejerk about how wrong Russia is and high 5 each other? How the hell did you manage to COMPLETELY ignore the part about the Kosovo War?
Click on his posting history in this thread. He flies with a pretty provocative statement, then he pulls back after insinuating or directly accusing that anyone who doesnt see this is a 50/50 issue in being involved in a circle jerk.
Anyway -- Russian fascists are on the march, Putin better invade the Kremlin next.
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/16/world/europe/foes-of-america-in-russia-crave-rupture-in-ties.html?_r=0
Dimitri K. Simes, president of the Center for the National Interest, said he saw the rise of people “who have very different views about the Russian economy.”
“Hard-line people, more nationalist people, they are being energized, they think this may be their moment,” he said. “You can also say that this is the tip of the iceberg. These are people who are more visible, more obvious, but there is a lot behind them that is potentially more serious and more ominous.”
Some in Mr. Putin’s camp see the confrontation as an opportunity to make the diplomatic turn toward China that they have long advocated, said Sergei A. Karaganov, a dean of the faculty of international relations at the Higher School of Economics in Moscow.
“This whole episode is going to change the rules of the game,” Mr. Karaganov said of Crimea, which is holding a referendum on secession on Sunday. “Confrontation with the West is welcomed by all too many here, to cleanse the elite, to organize the nation.”
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On March 16 2014 05:46 Feartheguru wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2014 05:41 SilentchiLL wrote:On March 16 2014 05:31 Feartheguru wrote:On March 16 2014 05:28 SilentchiLL wrote:On March 16 2014 05:22 Feartheguru wrote:On March 16 2014 03:14 aksfjh wrote:On March 16 2014 02:56 Feartheguru wrote:
I feel bad for the Russian posters here, taking moderate stances, pointing out very clear hypocrisies and getting personal insults from an army of drones. Western media truly is better than Russian, they are subtle enough to make their people think they are seeing the truth and that only the other side is spreading propaganda.
The rules that govern the world isn't based on fairness, it's based on national interests. Every country gets what they can when they can. America split Kosovo off from Serbia to weaken Russia, they didn't do it 'for the peoples' right to self-determination. Now that Russia is trying to do a very similar thing, they oppose it tooth and nail because it's against their nation interests. You know what, that's hypocrisy is perfectly fine, because that's how the world has always worked, by don't be an idiot and try to claim the two situations are different because of some tiny detail. Any rational thinker would realize what Russia is doing now isn't nearly as bad as Kosovo or Iraq, since no lives are lost in their pursuit of interests. But again, western media I applaud you. There's a difference between prioritizing which genocidal country you intervene in by national interests and invading any country for the SOLE purpose of national interests. Iraq. Can people stop derailing the thread with the "But America!" argument? I'm not even american and even I notice that it keeps on happening even if it has little to do with the actual situation at hand. Even if the US would be just as bad as Russia it really wouldn't matter since this thread isn't a USA vs Russia thread, it's a thread about the the crisis in the Ukraine. You can't justify Russia's actions by the actions of the States in the past and if that's not what your intention is and you just want to write what you think about the USA's foreign policy then this simply isn't the place for it. Can anybody tell me if Putin will actually care about this? Everyone agrees what Russia is doing is wrong, not everyone agrees whether they are the "baddie" of the world or just acting like everyone else. So what's your point, rather a discussion on the part people disagree on, should we just all circlejerk about how wrong Russia is and high 5 each other? How the hell did you manage to COMPLETELY ignore the part about the Kosovo War? Because the point of mentioning the Kosova war is that along with Iraq, I can paint a picture of America also doing whatever it takes, right or wrong to pursue their own national interests just like Russia, I'm not getting into the pointless argument that you or whoever responded about it wants to have, when there's so much ideology here no one is being convinced of anything,
Except US had no national interest in Kosovo, so your argument does not hold here. And please, can we stop the derailment with "But USA"? USA is not saint, people got it, people know it, let us stop right here, and discuss the matter at hand.
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On March 16 2014 05:50 Roman666 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2014 05:46 Feartheguru wrote:On March 16 2014 05:41 SilentchiLL wrote:On March 16 2014 05:31 Feartheguru wrote:On March 16 2014 05:28 SilentchiLL wrote:On March 16 2014 05:22 Feartheguru wrote:On March 16 2014 03:14 aksfjh wrote:On March 16 2014 02:56 Feartheguru wrote:
I feel bad for the Russian posters here, taking moderate stances, pointing out very clear hypocrisies and getting personal insults from an army of drones. Western media truly is better than Russian, they are subtle enough to make their people think they are seeing the truth and that only the other side is spreading propaganda.
The rules that govern the world isn't based on fairness, it's based on national interests. Every country gets what they can when they can. America split Kosovo off from Serbia to weaken Russia, they didn't do it 'for the peoples' right to self-determination. Now that Russia is trying to do a very similar thing, they oppose it tooth and nail because it's against their nation interests. You know what, that's hypocrisy is perfectly fine, because that's how the world has always worked, by don't be an idiot and try to claim the two situations are different because of some tiny detail. Any rational thinker would realize what Russia is doing now isn't nearly as bad as Kosovo or Iraq, since no lives are lost in their pursuit of interests. But again, western media I applaud you. There's a difference between prioritizing which genocidal country you intervene in by national interests and invading any country for the SOLE purpose of national interests. Iraq. Can people stop derailing the thread with the "But America!" argument? I'm not even american and even I notice that it keeps on happening even if it has little to do with the actual situation at hand. Even if the US would be just as bad as Russia it really wouldn't matter since this thread isn't a USA vs Russia thread, it's a thread about the the crisis in the Ukraine. You can't justify Russia's actions by the actions of the States in the past and if that's not what your intention is and you just want to write what you think about the USA's foreign policy then this simply isn't the place for it. Can anybody tell me if Putin will actually care about this? Everyone agrees what Russia is doing is wrong, not everyone agrees whether they are the "baddie" of the world or just acting like everyone else. So what's your point, rather a discussion on the part people disagree on, should we just all circlejerk about how wrong Russia is and high 5 each other? How the hell did you manage to COMPLETELY ignore the part about the Kosovo War? Because the point of mentioning the Kosova war is that along with Iraq, I can paint a picture of America also doing whatever it takes, right or wrong to pursue their own national interests just like Russia, I'm not getting into the pointless argument that you or whoever responded about it wants to have, when there's so much ideology here no one is being convinced of anything, Except US had no national interest in Kosovo, so your argument does not hold here. And please, can we stop the derailment with "But USA"? USA is not saint, people got it, people know it, let us stop right here, and discuss the matter at hand.
Their national interest is they are weakening Serbia, a Russian ally.
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On March 16 2014 05:50 Sub40APM wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2014 05:41 SilentchiLL wrote:On March 16 2014 05:31 Feartheguru wrote:On March 16 2014 05:28 SilentchiLL wrote:On March 16 2014 05:22 Feartheguru wrote:On March 16 2014 03:14 aksfjh wrote:On March 16 2014 02:56 Feartheguru wrote:
I feel bad for the Russian posters here, taking moderate stances, pointing out very clear hypocrisies and getting personal insults from an army of drones. Western media truly is better than Russian, they are subtle enough to make their people think they are seeing the truth and that only the other side is spreading propaganda.
The rules that govern the world isn't based on fairness, it's based on national interests. Every country gets what they can when they can. America split Kosovo off from Serbia to weaken Russia, they didn't do it 'for the peoples' right to self-determination. Now that Russia is trying to do a very similar thing, they oppose it tooth and nail because it's against their nation interests. You know what, that's hypocrisy is perfectly fine, because that's how the world has always worked, by don't be an idiot and try to claim the two situations are different because of some tiny detail. Any rational thinker would realize what Russia is doing now isn't nearly as bad as Kosovo or Iraq, since no lives are lost in their pursuit of interests. But again, western media I applaud you. There's a difference between prioritizing which genocidal country you intervene in by national interests and invading any country for the SOLE purpose of national interests. Iraq. Can people stop derailing the thread with the "But America!" argument? I'm not even american and even I notice that it keeps on happening even if it has little to do with the actual situation at hand. Even if the US would be just as bad as Russia it really wouldn't matter since this thread isn't a USA vs Russia thread, it's a thread about the the crisis in the Ukraine. You can't justify Russia's actions by the actions of the States in the past and if that's not what your intention is and you just want to write what you think about the USA's foreign policy then this simply isn't the place for it. Can anybody tell me if Putin will actually care about this? Everyone agrees what Russia is doing is wrong, not everyone agrees whether they are the "baddie" of the world or just acting like everyone else. So what's your point, rather a discussion on the part people disagree on, should we just all circlejerk about how wrong Russia is and high 5 each other? How the hell did you manage to COMPLETELY ignore the part about the Kosovo War? Click on his posting history in this thread. He flies with a pretty provocative statement, then he pulls back after insinuating or directly accusing that anyone who doesnt see this is a 50/50 issue in being involved in a circle jerk. Anyway -- Russian fascists are on the march, Putin better invade the Kremlin next. http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/16/world/europe/foes-of-america-in-russia-crave-rupture-in-ties.html?_r=0Show nested quote +Dimitri K. Simes, president of the Center for the National Interest, said he saw the rise of people “who have very different views about the Russian economy.”
“Hard-line people, more nationalist people, they are being energized, they think this may be their moment,” he said. “You can also say that this is the tip of the iceberg. These are people who are more visible, more obvious, but there is a lot behind them that is potentially more serious and more ominous.”
Some in Mr. Putin’s camp see the confrontation as an opportunity to make the diplomatic turn toward China that they have long advocated, said Sergei A. Karaganov, a dean of the faculty of international relations at the Higher School of Economics in Moscow.
“This whole episode is going to change the rules of the game,” Mr. Karaganov said of Crimea, which is holding a referendum on secession on Sunday. “Confrontation with the West is welcomed by all too many here, to cleanse the elite, to organize the nation.”
Should I bring up your post history in this thread? Well not necessary, I think everyone here knows what kind of posts you make.
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On March 16 2014 05:46 Feartheguru wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2014 05:41 SilentchiLL wrote:On March 16 2014 05:31 Feartheguru wrote:On March 16 2014 05:28 SilentchiLL wrote:On March 16 2014 05:22 Feartheguru wrote:On March 16 2014 03:14 aksfjh wrote:On March 16 2014 02:56 Feartheguru wrote:
I feel bad for the Russian posters here, taking moderate stances, pointing out very clear hypocrisies and getting personal insults from an army of drones. Western media truly is better than Russian, they are subtle enough to make their people think they are seeing the truth and that only the other side is spreading propaganda.
The rules that govern the world isn't based on fairness, it's based on national interests. Every country gets what they can when they can. America split Kosovo off from Serbia to weaken Russia, they didn't do it 'for the peoples' right to self-determination. Now that Russia is trying to do a very similar thing, they oppose it tooth and nail because it's against their nation interests. You know what, that's hypocrisy is perfectly fine, because that's how the world has always worked, by don't be an idiot and try to claim the two situations are different because of some tiny detail. Any rational thinker would realize what Russia is doing now isn't nearly as bad as Kosovo or Iraq, since no lives are lost in their pursuit of interests. But again, western media I applaud you. There's a difference between prioritizing which genocidal country you intervene in by national interests and invading any country for the SOLE purpose of national interests. Iraq. Can people stop derailing the thread with the "But America!" argument? I'm not even american and even I notice that it keeps on happening even if it has little to do with the actual situation at hand. Even if the US would be just as bad as Russia it really wouldn't matter since this thread isn't a USA vs Russia thread, it's a thread about the the crisis in the Ukraine. You can't justify Russia's actions by the actions of the States in the past and if that's not what your intention is and you just want to write what you think about the USA's foreign policy then this simply isn't the place for it. Can anybody tell me if Putin will actually care about this? Everyone agrees what Russia is doing is wrong, not everyone agrees whether they are the "baddie" of the world or just acting like everyone else. So what's your point, rather a discussion on the part people disagree on, should we just all circlejerk about how wrong Russia is and high 5 each other? How the hell did you manage to COMPLETELY ignore the part about the Kosovo War? I'm not getting into the pointless argument that you or whoever responded about it wants to have, when there's so much ideology here no one is being convinced of anything,
So you realized that you fucked up hard when you said that Russia's invasion of the Ukraine isn't "nearly as bad as Kosovo" because it was probably the one war you can't call the US as evil imperialists out for and now try to say that you don't want to get into it because there's too much ideology involved?
Since you obviously didn't know anything about the war I hope that you atleast read the wikipedia link I provided you with by now, everybody likes to bash the US sometimes, but please atleast stick to wars you know something about before condemning the US for them.
On March 16 2014 05:50 Sub40APM wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2014 05:41 SilentchiLL wrote:On March 16 2014 05:31 Feartheguru wrote:On March 16 2014 05:28 SilentchiLL wrote:On March 16 2014 05:22 Feartheguru wrote:On March 16 2014 03:14 aksfjh wrote:On March 16 2014 02:56 Feartheguru wrote:
I feel bad for the Russian posters here, taking moderate stances, pointing out very clear hypocrisies and getting personal insults from an army of drones. Western media truly is better than Russian, they are subtle enough to make their people think they are seeing the truth and that only the other side is spreading propaganda.
The rules that govern the world isn't based on fairness, it's based on national interests. Every country gets what they can when they can. America split Kosovo off from Serbia to weaken Russia, they didn't do it 'for the peoples' right to self-determination. Now that Russia is trying to do a very similar thing, they oppose it tooth and nail because it's against their nation interests. You know what, that's hypocrisy is perfectly fine, because that's how the world has always worked, by don't be an idiot and try to claim the two situations are different because of some tiny detail. Any rational thinker would realize what Russia is doing now isn't nearly as bad as Kosovo or Iraq, since no lives are lost in their pursuit of interests. But again, western media I applaud you. There's a difference between prioritizing which genocidal country you intervene in by national interests and invading any country for the SOLE purpose of national interests. Iraq. Can people stop derailing the thread with the "But America!" argument? I'm not even american and even I notice that it keeps on happening even if it has little to do with the actual situation at hand. Even if the US would be just as bad as Russia it really wouldn't matter since this thread isn't a USA vs Russia thread, it's a thread about the the crisis in the Ukraine. You can't justify Russia's actions by the actions of the States in the past and if that's not what your intention is and you just want to write what you think about the USA's foreign policy then this simply isn't the place for it. Can anybody tell me if Putin will actually care about this? Everyone agrees what Russia is doing is wrong, not everyone agrees whether they are the "baddie" of the world or just acting like everyone else. So what's your point, rather a discussion on the part people disagree on, should we just all circlejerk about how wrong Russia is and high 5 each other? How the hell did you manage to COMPLETELY ignore the part about the Kosovo War? Click on his posting history in this thread. He flies with a pretty provocative statement, then he pulls back after insinuating or directly accusing that anyone who doesnt see this is a 50/50 issue in being involved in a circle jerk. Anyway -- Russian fascists are on the march, Putin better invade the Kremlin next. http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/16/world/europe/foes-of-america-in-russia-crave-rupture-in-ties.html?_r=0Show nested quote +Dimitri K. Simes, president of the Center for the National Interest, said he saw the rise of people “who have very different views about the Russian economy.”
“Hard-line people, more nationalist people, they are being energized, they think this may be their moment,” he said. “You can also say that this is the tip of the iceberg. These are people who are more visible, more obvious, but there is a lot behind them that is potentially more serious and more ominous.”
Some in Mr. Putin’s camp see the confrontation as an opportunity to make the diplomatic turn toward China that they have long advocated, said Sergei A. Karaganov, a dean of the faculty of international relations at the Higher School of Economics in Moscow.
“This whole episode is going to change the rules of the game,” Mr. Karaganov said of Crimea, which is holding a referendum on secession on Sunday. “Confrontation with the West is welcomed by all too many here, to cleanse the elite, to organize the nation.”
Seems like I mostly overlooked his posts or skipped them until now then (when there are like 140 new posts I of course don't read them all). Kinda sad, but if he does that every time and not just this once then I guess arguing doesn't make much sense here.
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On March 16 2014 05:53 Feartheguru wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2014 05:50 Roman666 wrote:On March 16 2014 05:46 Feartheguru wrote:On March 16 2014 05:41 SilentchiLL wrote:On March 16 2014 05:31 Feartheguru wrote:On March 16 2014 05:28 SilentchiLL wrote:On March 16 2014 05:22 Feartheguru wrote:On March 16 2014 03:14 aksfjh wrote:On March 16 2014 02:56 Feartheguru wrote:
I feel bad for the Russian posters here, taking moderate stances, pointing out very clear hypocrisies and getting personal insults from an army of drones. Western media truly is better than Russian, they are subtle enough to make their people think they are seeing the truth and that only the other side is spreading propaganda.
The rules that govern the world isn't based on fairness, it's based on national interests. Every country gets what they can when they can. America split Kosovo off from Serbia to weaken Russia, they didn't do it 'for the peoples' right to self-determination. Now that Russia is trying to do a very similar thing, they oppose it tooth and nail because it's against their nation interests. You know what, that's hypocrisy is perfectly fine, because that's how the world has always worked, by don't be an idiot and try to claim the two situations are different because of some tiny detail. Any rational thinker would realize what Russia is doing now isn't nearly as bad as Kosovo or Iraq, since no lives are lost in their pursuit of interests. But again, western media I applaud you. There's a difference between prioritizing which genocidal country you intervene in by national interests and invading any country for the SOLE purpose of national interests. Iraq. Can people stop derailing the thread with the "But America!" argument? I'm not even american and even I notice that it keeps on happening even if it has little to do with the actual situation at hand. Even if the US would be just as bad as Russia it really wouldn't matter since this thread isn't a USA vs Russia thread, it's a thread about the the crisis in the Ukraine. You can't justify Russia's actions by the actions of the States in the past and if that's not what your intention is and you just want to write what you think about the USA's foreign policy then this simply isn't the place for it. Can anybody tell me if Putin will actually care about this? Everyone agrees what Russia is doing is wrong, not everyone agrees whether they are the "baddie" of the world or just acting like everyone else. So what's your point, rather a discussion on the part people disagree on, should we just all circlejerk about how wrong Russia is and high 5 each other? How the hell did you manage to COMPLETELY ignore the part about the Kosovo War? Because the point of mentioning the Kosova war is that along with Iraq, I can paint a picture of America also doing whatever it takes, right or wrong to pursue their own national interests just like Russia, I'm not getting into the pointless argument that you or whoever responded about it wants to have, when there's so much ideology here no one is being convinced of anything, Except US had no national interest in Kosovo, so your argument does not hold here. And please, can we stop the derailment with "But USA"? USA is not saint, people got it, people know it, let us stop right here, and discuss the matter at hand. Their national interest is they are weakening Serbia, a Russian ally.
Really, Serbia is a Russian ally? And that is why they started accession talks with EU, right?
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EPT
