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On March 15 2014 02:22 kukarachaa wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2014 02:17 Ghanburighan wrote:On March 15 2014 02:14 MikeMM wrote:On March 15 2014 02:10 Gorsameth wrote:On March 15 2014 02:08 MikeMM wrote:On March 15 2014 01:24 Gorsameth wrote:On March 15 2014 01:21 MikeMM wrote:On March 15 2014 01:16 kukarachaa wrote:On March 15 2014 01:10 Gorsameth wrote:On March 15 2014 01:08 MikeMM wrote:
[quote]
I disagree because analyst assumes that gov would decide to join Russia.
He as easely could have assumed that gov would decide to stay in Ukraine given the fact that people on referendum said so.
So why is there no option to maintain the current situation. Why? If they really wanted to offer an option for the Crimea people to stay with Ukraine why is there no choice that guarantees that beyond all doubt? Because they want more leverage should they stay in Ukraine, you want them to stay status quo, while the whole situation in Ukraine significantly changed. Exactly. Again why not 3 options, Join Russia, more independence, status-quo. Why is it needed for there to be only 2 options. Both of which can or will lead to joining Russia? You still haven't answer why a status quo option is impossible. And I should add that status quo is unclear term because of many reasons. One of them is that just recently Russian language was one of two state languages in Crimea but new government in Kiev heavily limited use of Russian language. So Crimea doesn’t want that status quo where use of Russian language is heavily limited. We dont know what the Crimea wants because we are not asking them If the people want more power let them vote on it. If they want things to stay the way to are let them vote on it. I admit that neither you nor I know for sure what people in Crimea want. I just want to say that so many things changed in Ukraine over the past month that talking about keeping status quo is kinda naive. That's nonsense. Admit it, you tried to claim that the referendum is a legitimate way of assessing what the people of Crimea want. We said that the referendum is biased, and one of the ways in which it's biased is that it only gives `join Russia' or `become autonomous so our govt. can join Russia' options. There is no option for the people of Crimea to say `we are happy to be Ukrainian.' So how could we possibly know if the people of Crimea want to be Ukrainian? We cannot. Not only is it irrelevant what you're saying about the status quo, you've been caught spreading misinformation and yet you don't admit it like a man. Once again there is an option to say we are happy to be part of Ukrainia, it is just that the Crimea can hold this referendum again in the future, and people can say once again they are happy to be part of Ukrania if they so desire. Is this not correct?
Nope, it makes Crimea an independent state so the Parliament of Crimea can vote to join Russia without having to hold a referendum.
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On March 15 2014 02:30 kukarachaa wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2014 02:25 Gorsameth wrote:On March 15 2014 02:22 kukarachaa wrote:On March 15 2014 02:17 Ghanburighan wrote:On March 15 2014 02:14 MikeMM wrote:On March 15 2014 02:10 Gorsameth wrote:On March 15 2014 02:08 MikeMM wrote:On March 15 2014 01:24 Gorsameth wrote:On March 15 2014 01:21 MikeMM wrote:On March 15 2014 01:16 kukarachaa wrote:
[quote]
Because they want more leverage should they stay in Ukraine, you want them to stay status quo, while the whole situation in Ukraine significantly changed.
Exactly. Again why not 3 options, Join Russia, more independence, status-quo. Why is it needed for there to be only 2 options. Both of which can or will lead to joining Russia? You still haven't answer why a status quo option is impossible. And I should add that status quo is unclear term because of many reasons. One of them is that just recently Russian language was one of two state languages in Crimea but new government in Kiev heavily limited use of Russian language. So Crimea doesn’t want that status quo where use of Russian language is heavily limited. We dont know what the Crimea wants because we are not asking them If the people want more power let them vote on it. If they want things to stay the way to are let them vote on it. I admit that neither you nor I know for sure what people in Crimea want. I just want to say that so many things changed in Ukraine over the past month that talking about keeping status quo is kinda naive. That's nonsense. Admit it, you tried to claim that the referendum is a legitimate way of assessing what the people of Crimea want. We said that the referendum is biased, and one of the ways in which it's biased is that it only gives `join Russia' or `become autonomous so our govt. can join Russia' options. There is no option for the people of Crimea to say `we are happy to be Ukrainian.' So how could we possibly know if the people of Crimea want to be Ukrainian? We cannot. Not only is it irrelevant what you're saying about the status quo, you've been caught spreading misinformation and yet you don't admit it like a man. Once again there is an option to say we are happy to be part of Ukrainia, it is just that the Crimea can hold this referendum again in the future, and people can say once again they are happy to be part of Ukrania if they so desire. Is this not correct? Option 1)join Russia Option 2) revert to 1992 constitution which gives more power to the Crimea government. Including the power to leave the Ukraine. There is no option 3. Ok so the power to leave Ukraine, how would that be organized do you know? If its the power to hold another referendum in the future I have no problems with that. If its only up to the governing body, that would be atrocious.
up to the government. The same government that already declared they want to join Russia.
So I hope you understand why no one takes this referendum seriously.
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On March 15 2014 02:30 m4ini wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2014 02:24 kukarachaa wrote:On March 15 2014 02:17 Nyxisto wrote:On March 15 2014 02:08 MikeMM wrote:
One of them is that just recently Russian language was one of two state languages in Crimea but new government in Kiev heavily limited use of Russian language. So Crimea doesn’t want that status quo where use of Russian language is heavily limited.
You know except that actually never happened. The law that was proposed to change the status of the Russian language was rejected. Well that's half true it passed through Rada, and needed to be ratified by the Prime Minister, however this law sparked numerous riots in the Eastern Ukraine, and he didn't sign it. Doesn't really matter. Russian guy is against a fair referendum since current referendum is "fair enough, ppl too stupid to understand status quo anyway", links russian state media as a source, telling us how he's an adult and in no way influenced by propaganda. Guess what, he's just another victim. I start to think that Wonderful is the only russian (including serbs) who actually seems to be at least reserved and doesn't gobble up everything a fricking state-controlled mediastation spits at them.
Well in his defense the article isn't exactly wrong, its a little ambiguous, all it states is what Rada did.
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On March 15 2014 02:30 m4ini wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2014 02:24 kukarachaa wrote:On March 15 2014 02:17 Nyxisto wrote:On March 15 2014 02:08 MikeMM wrote:
One of them is that just recently Russian language was one of two state languages in Crimea but new government in Kiev heavily limited use of Russian language. So Crimea doesn’t want that status quo where use of Russian language is heavily limited.
You know except that actually never happened. The law that was proposed to change the status of the Russian language was rejected. Well that's half true it passed through Rada, and needed to be ratified by the Prime Minister, however this law sparked numerous riots in the Eastern Ukraine, and he didn't sign it. Doesn't really matter. Russian guy is against a fair referendum since current referendum is "fair enough, ppl too stupid to understand status quo anyway", links russian state media as a source, telling us how he's an adult and in no way influenced by propaganda. Guess what, he's just another victim. I start to think that Wonderful is the only russian (including serbs) who actually seems to be at least reserved and doesn't gobble up everything a fricking state-controlled mediastation spits at them.
There are a lot of sensible Russians, in and out of Russia... This isn't about Russians, it's about the Russian govt. and Putin. And for a regular person for who this stuff isn't their primary occupation, they only receive news from the official sources. Russians, I find, are actually more skeptical of the information they receive from the media, but that doesn't mean they go and fact-check everything from a thousand sources. - few people have time for that.
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On March 15 2014 02:34 kukarachaa wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2014 02:30 m4ini wrote:On March 15 2014 02:24 kukarachaa wrote:On March 15 2014 02:17 Nyxisto wrote:On March 15 2014 02:08 MikeMM wrote:
One of them is that just recently Russian language was one of two state languages in Crimea but new government in Kiev heavily limited use of Russian language. So Crimea doesn’t want that status quo where use of Russian language is heavily limited.
You know except that actually never happened. The law that was proposed to change the status of the Russian language was rejected. Well that's half true it passed through Rada, and needed to be ratified by the Prime Minister, however this law sparked numerous riots in the Eastern Ukraine, and he didn't sign it. Doesn't really matter. Russian guy is against a fair referendum since current referendum is "fair enough, ppl too stupid to understand status quo anyway", links russian state media as a source, telling us how he's an adult and in no way influenced by propaganda. Guess what, he's just another victim. I start to think that Wonderful is the only russian (including serbs) who actually seems to be at least reserved and doesn't gobble up everything a fricking state-controlled mediastation spits at them. Well in his defense the article isn't exactly wrong, its a little ambiguous, all it states is what Rada did.
Not even close. Even saying half of the truth = saying bullshit.
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Russian Federation221 Posts
On March 15 2014 02:30 m4ini wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2014 02:24 kukarachaa wrote:On March 15 2014 02:17 Nyxisto wrote:On March 15 2014 02:08 MikeMM wrote:
One of them is that just recently Russian language was one of two state languages in Crimea but new government in Kiev heavily limited use of Russian language. So Crimea doesn’t want that status quo where use of Russian language is heavily limited.
You know except that actually never happened. The law that was proposed to change the status of the Russian language was rejected. Well that's half true it passed through Rada, and needed to be ratified by the Prime Minister, however this law sparked numerous riots in the Eastern Ukraine, and he didn't sign it. Doesn't really matter. Russian guy is against a fair referendum since current referendum is "fair enough, ppl too stupid to understand status quo anyway", links russian state media as a source, telling us how he's an adult and in no way influenced by propaganda. Guess what, he's just another victim. I start to think that Wonderful is the only russian (including serbs) who actually seems to be at least reserved and doesn't gobble up everything a fricking state-controlled mediastation spits at them.
I never said "ppl too stupid."
You are lying.
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On March 15 2014 02:37 Roman666 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2014 02:34 kukarachaa wrote:On March 15 2014 02:30 m4ini wrote:On March 15 2014 02:24 kukarachaa wrote:On March 15 2014 02:17 Nyxisto wrote:On March 15 2014 02:08 MikeMM wrote:
One of them is that just recently Russian language was one of two state languages in Crimea but new government in Kiev heavily limited use of Russian language. So Crimea doesn’t want that status quo where use of Russian language is heavily limited.
You know except that actually never happened. The law that was proposed to change the status of the Russian language was rejected. Well that's half true it passed through Rada, and needed to be ratified by the Prime Minister, however this law sparked numerous riots in the Eastern Ukraine, and he didn't sign it. Doesn't really matter. Russian guy is against a fair referendum since current referendum is "fair enough, ppl too stupid to understand status quo anyway", links russian state media as a source, telling us how he's an adult and in no way influenced by propaganda. Guess what, he's just another victim. I start to think that Wonderful is the only russian (including serbs) who actually seems to be at least reserved and doesn't gobble up everything a fricking state-controlled mediastation spits at them. Well in his defense the article isn't exactly wrong, its a little ambiguous, all it states is what Rada did. Not even close. Even saying half of the truth = saying bullshit.
Well looks like this article is really old, for all you know it could have been written right after Rada passed the law, but before it wasn't signed.
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On March 15 2014 02:34 kukarachaa wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2014 02:30 m4ini wrote:On March 15 2014 02:24 kukarachaa wrote:On March 15 2014 02:17 Nyxisto wrote:On March 15 2014 02:08 MikeMM wrote:
One of them is that just recently Russian language was one of two state languages in Crimea but new government in Kiev heavily limited use of Russian language. So Crimea doesn’t want that status quo where use of Russian language is heavily limited.
You know except that actually never happened. The law that was proposed to change the status of the Russian language was rejected. Well that's half true it passed through Rada, and needed to be ratified by the Prime Minister, however this law sparked numerous riots in the Eastern Ukraine, and he didn't sign it. Doesn't really matter. Russian guy is against a fair referendum since current referendum is "fair enough, ppl too stupid to understand status quo anyway", links russian state media as a source, telling us how he's an adult and in no way influenced by propaganda. Guess what, he's just another victim. I start to think that Wonderful is the only russian (including serbs) who actually seems to be at least reserved and doesn't gobble up everything a fricking state-controlled mediastation spits at them. Well in his defense the article isn't exactly wrong, its a little ambiguous, all it states is what Rada did.
If an article missed the tiny detail that the whole thing was revoked, it isn't exactly "a little ambigous", what? There's a key difference between reporting that a new law was made (or "suggesting" it), or telling the whole story.
That's kinda how propaganda works. You report everything that gathers people for your cause, but leave out the tiny bits that doesn't paint something as an enemy. Exactly what RT did, and immediately you have russians shouting that russians get subdued or "made submissive" (can't remember the word) in crimea, citing the law-article etc.
It's targeted desinformation.
I never said "ppl too stupid."
You are lying.
Read up hyperbole, if that makes you feel better. If people are smart enough to know what "status quo" is, why not let them vote on it?
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Russian Federation221 Posts
On March 15 2014 02:42 kukarachaa wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2014 02:37 Roman666 wrote:On March 15 2014 02:34 kukarachaa wrote:On March 15 2014 02:30 m4ini wrote:On March 15 2014 02:24 kukarachaa wrote:On March 15 2014 02:17 Nyxisto wrote:On March 15 2014 02:08 MikeMM wrote:
One of them is that just recently Russian language was one of two state languages in Crimea but new government in Kiev heavily limited use of Russian language. So Crimea doesn’t want that status quo where use of Russian language is heavily limited.
You know except that actually never happened. The law that was proposed to change the status of the Russian language was rejected. Well that's half true it passed through Rada, and needed to be ratified by the Prime Minister, however this law sparked numerous riots in the Eastern Ukraine, and he didn't sign it. Doesn't really matter. Russian guy is against a fair referendum since current referendum is "fair enough, ppl too stupid to understand status quo anyway", links russian state media as a source, telling us how he's an adult and in no way influenced by propaganda. Guess what, he's just another victim. I start to think that Wonderful is the only russian (including serbs) who actually seems to be at least reserved and doesn't gobble up everything a fricking state-controlled mediastation spits at them. Well in his defense the article isn't exactly wrong, its a little ambiguous, all it states is what Rada did. Not even close. Even saying half of the truth = saying bullshit. Well looks like this article is really old, for all you know it could have been written right after Rada passed the law, but before it wasn't signed.
I have already written that i didn’t know that that law hadn’t passed. And I apologized.
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On March 15 2014 02:42 kukarachaa wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2014 02:37 Roman666 wrote:On March 15 2014 02:34 kukarachaa wrote:On March 15 2014 02:30 m4ini wrote:On March 15 2014 02:24 kukarachaa wrote:On March 15 2014 02:17 Nyxisto wrote:On March 15 2014 02:08 MikeMM wrote:
One of them is that just recently Russian language was one of two state languages in Crimea but new government in Kiev heavily limited use of Russian language. So Crimea doesn’t want that status quo where use of Russian language is heavily limited.
You know except that actually never happened. The law that was proposed to change the status of the Russian language was rejected. Well that's half true it passed through Rada, and needed to be ratified by the Prime Minister, however this law sparked numerous riots in the Eastern Ukraine, and he didn't sign it. Doesn't really matter. Russian guy is against a fair referendum since current referendum is "fair enough, ppl too stupid to understand status quo anyway", links russian state media as a source, telling us how he's an adult and in no way influenced by propaganda. Guess what, he's just another victim. I start to think that Wonderful is the only russian (including serbs) who actually seems to be at least reserved and doesn't gobble up everything a fricking state-controlled mediastation spits at them. Well in his defense the article isn't exactly wrong, its a little ambiguous, all it states is what Rada did. Not even close. Even saying half of the truth = saying bullshit. Well looks like this article is really old, for all you know it could have been written right after Rada passed the law, but before it wasn't signed.
That's correct, it was posted on the 23rd, while the repeal was vetoed on the 28th of February. For 5 days there was an actual threat that the status quo would change.
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Russian Federation221 Posts
On March 15 2014 02:43 m4ini wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2014 02:34 kukarachaa wrote:On March 15 2014 02:30 m4ini wrote:On March 15 2014 02:24 kukarachaa wrote:On March 15 2014 02:17 Nyxisto wrote:On March 15 2014 02:08 MikeMM wrote:
One of them is that just recently Russian language was one of two state languages in Crimea but new government in Kiev heavily limited use of Russian language. So Crimea doesn’t want that status quo where use of Russian language is heavily limited.
You know except that actually never happened. The law that was proposed to change the status of the Russian language was rejected. Well that's half true it passed through Rada, and needed to be ratified by the Prime Minister, however this law sparked numerous riots in the Eastern Ukraine, and he didn't sign it. Doesn't really matter. Russian guy is against a fair referendum since current referendum is "fair enough, ppl too stupid to understand status quo anyway", links russian state media as a source, telling us how he's an adult and in no way influenced by propaganda. Guess what, he's just another victim. I start to think that Wonderful is the only russian (including serbs) who actually seems to be at least reserved and doesn't gobble up everything a fricking state-controlled mediastation spits at them. Well in his defense the article isn't exactly wrong, its a little ambiguous, all it states is what Rada did. If an article missed the tiny detail that the whole thing was revoked, it isn't exactly "a little ambigous", what? There's a key difference between reporting that a new law was made (or "suggesting" it), or telling the whole story. That's kinda how propaganda works. You report everything that gathers people for your cause, but leave out the tiny bits that doesn't paint something as an enemy. Exactly what RT did, and immediately you have russians shouting that russians get subdued or "made submissive" (can't remember the word) in crimea, citing the law-article etc. It's targeted desinformation.
The article dates to the time when this law hadnt been revoked yet.
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On March 15 2014 02:27 MikeMM wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2014 02:23 Roman666 wrote:On March 15 2014 02:17 MikeMM wrote:On March 15 2014 02:13 Ghanburighan wrote:On March 15 2014 02:08 MikeMM wrote:On March 15 2014 01:24 Gorsameth wrote:On March 15 2014 01:21 MikeMM wrote:On March 15 2014 01:16 kukarachaa wrote:On March 15 2014 01:10 Gorsameth wrote:On March 15 2014 01:08 MikeMM wrote:
[quote]
I disagree because analyst assumes that gov would decide to join Russia.
He as easely could have assumed that gov would decide to stay in Ukraine given the fact that people on referendum said so.
So why is there no option to maintain the current situation. Why? If they really wanted to offer an option for the Crimea people to stay with Ukraine why is there no choice that guarantees that beyond all doubt? Because they want more leverage should they stay in Ukraine, you want them to stay status quo, while the whole situation in Ukraine significantly changed. Exactly. Again why not 3 options, Join Russia, more independence, status-quo. Why is it needed for there to be only 2 options. Both of which can or will lead to joining Russia? You still haven't answer why a status quo option is impossible. And I should add that status quo is unclear term because of many reasons. One of them is that just recently Russian language was one of two state languages in Crimea but new government in Kiev heavily limited use of Russian language. So Crimea doesn’t want that status quo where use of Russian language is heavily limited. Either you're incredibly ignorant or you're lying. Read the thread before you post. I gather that you speak russian a little so here is a link for you http://russian.rt.com/article/22863 Nice article, shame it does not say what happened after Rada presented the bill to be signed by Turchynov. News flash for you: he did not sign the bill. I didnt know it wasnt signed. My bad then.
This closes the topic. Respect for admitting a mistake, takes guts.
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On March 15 2014 02:45 MikeMM wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2014 02:43 m4ini wrote:On March 15 2014 02:34 kukarachaa wrote:On March 15 2014 02:30 m4ini wrote:On March 15 2014 02:24 kukarachaa wrote:On March 15 2014 02:17 Nyxisto wrote:On March 15 2014 02:08 MikeMM wrote:
One of them is that just recently Russian language was one of two state languages in Crimea but new government in Kiev heavily limited use of Russian language. So Crimea doesn’t want that status quo where use of Russian language is heavily limited.
You know except that actually never happened. The law that was proposed to change the status of the Russian language was rejected. Well that's half true it passed through Rada, and needed to be ratified by the Prime Minister, however this law sparked numerous riots in the Eastern Ukraine, and he didn't sign it. Doesn't really matter. Russian guy is against a fair referendum since current referendum is "fair enough, ppl too stupid to understand status quo anyway", links russian state media as a source, telling us how he's an adult and in no way influenced by propaganda. Guess what, he's just another victim. I start to think that Wonderful is the only russian (including serbs) who actually seems to be at least reserved and doesn't gobble up everything a fricking state-controlled mediastation spits at them. Well in his defense the article isn't exactly wrong, its a little ambiguous, all it states is what Rada did. If an article missed the tiny detail that the whole thing was revoked, it isn't exactly "a little ambigous", what? There's a key difference between reporting that a new law was made (or "suggesting" it), or telling the whole story. That's kinda how propaganda works. You report everything that gathers people for your cause, but leave out the tiny bits that doesn't paint something as an enemy. Exactly what RT did, and immediately you have russians shouting that russians get subdued or "made submissive" (can't remember the word) in crimea, citing the law-article etc. It's targeted desinformation. The article dates to the time when this law hadnt been revoked yet.
And it wasn't updated, as other newspapers do it?
Out of curiosity now.
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On March 15 2014 02:47 m4ini wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2014 02:45 MikeMM wrote:On March 15 2014 02:43 m4ini wrote:On March 15 2014 02:34 kukarachaa wrote:On March 15 2014 02:30 m4ini wrote:On March 15 2014 02:24 kukarachaa wrote:On March 15 2014 02:17 Nyxisto wrote:On March 15 2014 02:08 MikeMM wrote:
One of them is that just recently Russian language was one of two state languages in Crimea but new government in Kiev heavily limited use of Russian language. So Crimea doesn’t want that status quo where use of Russian language is heavily limited.
You know except that actually never happened. The law that was proposed to change the status of the Russian language was rejected. Well that's half true it passed through Rada, and needed to be ratified by the Prime Minister, however this law sparked numerous riots in the Eastern Ukraine, and he didn't sign it. Doesn't really matter. Russian guy is against a fair referendum since current referendum is "fair enough, ppl too stupid to understand status quo anyway", links russian state media as a source, telling us how he's an adult and in no way influenced by propaganda. Guess what, he's just another victim. I start to think that Wonderful is the only russian (including serbs) who actually seems to be at least reserved and doesn't gobble up everything a fricking state-controlled mediastation spits at them. Well in his defense the article isn't exactly wrong, its a little ambiguous, all it states is what Rada did. If an article missed the tiny detail that the whole thing was revoked, it isn't exactly "a little ambigous", what? There's a key difference between reporting that a new law was made (or "suggesting" it), or telling the whole story. That's kinda how propaganda works. You report everything that gathers people for your cause, but leave out the tiny bits that doesn't paint something as an enemy. Exactly what RT did, and immediately you have russians shouting that russians get subdued or "made submissive" (can't remember the word) in crimea, citing the law-article etc. It's targeted desinformation. The article dates to the time when this law hadnt been revoked yet. And it wasn't updated, as other newspapers do it? Out of curiosity now.
Actually, probably no newspapers update.
But it should be mentioned that RT has kept on publishing articles that mention the repeal law without mentioning the veto on it. Which is as dishonest as everyone is claiming RT is...
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Hm, googletranslate kinda doesn't really make sense - as far as i understand it, an oligarch called Dmitry Firtnasch was jailed in vienna, who could give the kremlin a big headache due to insiderknowledge?
.. that's what i can gather in googletranslate, i'd rather make sure. ^^
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On March 15 2014 02:56 m4ini wrote:Hm, googletranslate kinda doesn't really make sense - as far as i understand it, an oligarch called Dmitry Firtnasch was jailed in vienna, who could give the kremlin a big headache due to insiderknowledge? .. that's what i can gather in googletranslate, i'd rather make sure. ^^
Anyone who's better than me at Russian want to translate? The gist is that he is part of the close circle of ex-KGB agents who surround Putin and his arrest might be a surgical strike to force Putin to change his mind on Crimea.
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Meanwhile in Donetsk:
Police established identity of the person who made the fatal knife blow, but were unable to arrest him yet. This was announced by acting Ukrainian Internal minister Arsen Avakov on his Facebook page. "Six special investigative groups are at work. Two more individuals have been detained, adding to the four already-arrested. At the moment, six are arrested in total. Thanks to active cooperation with journalists, who provided information, we identified about 20 more people -- direct instigators and forefront performers. Task forces are working to deliver the suspects to authorities. We identified the killer who delivered the fatal wound to the killed activist, based on eyewitness accounts. The murderer has been nicknamed "butcher". Police began search for this criminal. We'll find him!" -- he wrote. Source.
***
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The land of freedom23126 Posts
In general:
FBI asked Vienna to arrest Dmitry Firtasch.
Journalist says that Firtasch knows a lot about Russian govenment, Ukranian government and can provide tons of interesting information.
Because of it Putin will meet with Federation Council.
Also there is results of Lenta researchment that voting on invading Ukraine was made with falsifications and will be appealed in Consitution Court.
Dunno, i pretty much have no idea about this journalist and this resource isn't very reliable. But ye, that's about it.
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This argument about the referendum was already had, so I'll just re-post:
The Crimean parliament has just declared Crimea an "Autonomous Republic." This parliament, which of course is an actual junta at the moment, has already "voted" its wish to have Crimea join the Russian Federation. Everyone not sucking off Vladimir's teat knows exactly what will happen if "join Russia now" doesn't "win." The Russian parliament is working on a bill to make it easier for places like Crimea to join the Russian Federation.
So just like when I posted that (it was MikeMM then too), it is obvious to anyone not pro-Russian or anti-West that option 2 meaning anything but "join Russia later" is nonsense.
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On March 15 2014 01:13 MikeMM wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2014 01:06 Gorsameth wrote:On March 15 2014 01:04 MikeMM wrote:On March 15 2014 00:57 Gorsameth wrote:On March 15 2014 00:53 MikeMM wrote:On March 15 2014 00:48 Ghanburighan wrote:On March 15 2014 00:43 MikeMM wrote:On March 15 2014 00:42 Gorsameth wrote:On March 15 2014 00:40 MikeMM wrote:On March 15 2014 00:36 Gorsameth wrote:
[quote]
Here we go again
There are 2 options on the referendum ballot.
1) is to join Russia
2) is to revert to a Constitution from 2012 which gave Crimea more autonomy. Most importantly it would let them declare themselves a part of Russia.
A declaration the local Crimea government has already made but it was ignored by everyone because they cannot legally do so atm.
Do tell me where the option to keep the current situation is in that?
Its a join Russia now or join later referendum. You wrote option 2 incompletely. you missed quite an important part. Please write it completely and then we will continue discussion. Sorry my Russian in a little rusty. Please enlighten me. If there is an actual option to maintain the status-quo I will gladly admit I am wrong. status of Crimea as a part of Ukraine If you're going to repost that stuff without reading what has already been posted in response, let me repost the counter again too: The 1992 national blueprint - which was adopted soon after the collapse of the Soviet Union and then quickly abolished by the young post-Soviet Ukrainian state - is far from [returning to the status quo]. This foresees giving Crimea all the qualities of an independent entity within Ukraine - but with the broad right to determine its own path and choose relations with whom it wants - including Russia. With the pro-Russian assembly already saying it wants to return Crimea to Russia, this second option only offers a slightly longer route to shifting the peninsula back under Russian control, analysts say. The option of asking people if they wish to stick with the status quo - in which Crimea enjoys autonomy but remains part of Ukraine - is not on offer. Source. I read it and I disagree with it. Its just an opinion of some analyst and you present it as given matter. If people vote to keep status of Crimea as a part of Ukraine Cr goverment wont dare to join Russia since it doesnt have support of citizens. Why would they not join Russia? Russia has already shown it has no problem with beating down protests and imprisoning political opponents. What makes this different? If people of Crimea voted to keep status of Crimea as a part of Ukraine then Russia would back of I guarantee. In the same way that Russia backed off when they invaded Crimea? oh wait... no they did that bit. I understand you don't see the world as we do. Government controlled media does that but don't tell me you don't see how this referendum is bullshit. I am an adult and Im not really influenced by media. Do you recognize division of Serbia? I think its the same situation as with Crimea. But USA and EU recognized Kosovo. So I dont understand why they dont want to recognize the will of people of Crimea.
whats the will of the people in Chechnya ?
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EPT
